Hudson's other two Mario games

[blue lander]

I was reading the "Hardest Mario Game" thread, and it occured to me most people probably haven't seen or even heard of the the three Mario games that Hudson developed for a few early 80's computer systems in Japan. Super Mario
Bros. Special is somewhat well known, but Mario Bros Special and Punch Ball Mario are still quite obscure even
among classic gamers. So here are some screenshots of the two games, as well as a little summary of the gameplay.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/402/marioboxes3qg.jpg

Here are the two boxes and the cassettes the games are on. I'm not sure how many computers the games were released for, but these are the Sharp X1 versions. I know there's versions on the PC-6001, but I bet there's versions for the FM-7 and PC-8801. It looks like the cover art was modified from the original Mario Bros.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/989/pbmbtitle0hu.jpg

The title screen for Punch Ball Mario. As you can see, there are one and two player modes.

Basically, in Punch Ball Mario you chuck this red ball at enemies rather than bumping them from below like in the original. Throwing the ball at an enemy knocks him over, and running into him kills him off just like in the original. After throwing the ball, you have to run into it to pick it up before you can throw it again. The game only uses one button, pressing it while moving makes you jump, and pressing it while standing still makes you throw the ball.


http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7974/pbmblevel15fx.jpg


The first couple of levels look like this. The first one just has turtles, the second one has crabs to. Unlike the original, there's really no difference between the two enemies. Both die after just one shot.


http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6055/pbmblevel23tc.jpg

On the third level, you have the coin collecting bonus stage, just like the original. The only difference is that the coins move up and down. There's no ball on this stage since there's nothing to throw it at.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1861/pbmblevel32ll.jpg

The next couple of stages are like this. Just like the first stage, except the platforms move back and forth.

This game sort of sucks. The whole "tossing the ball around" gameplay lacks the strategy of the original, and it gets boring real quick. Having to come to a complete stop to throw the ball is frustrating as well.

Mario Bros. Special, on the other hand, is a bit better.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1687/mbstitle5zl.jpg


There's no dumb ball gimmick in this one, it's more or less just the original game with different levels and more dumb gimmicks.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6251/mbslevel18in.jpg
The first level has platforms with moving holes in them, but no enemies of any sort. Your goal is to make it to the top and flip all the switches so the exit doors open. You flip them on by bumping them when you jump, but they slowly move back to the off position so you've got to quickly set all of them before they revert to off.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5254/mbslevel22ic.jpg

Next level has these trampoline platforms, and your standard turtle enemies. To kill them, you've got to jump on the platform while a turtle is standing on it, thus flipping them over. After killing a fistful of them, you go on to the third level.

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/5466/mbslevel37pq.jpg

Nothing too interesting about level three except for the moving conveyor belts and the little platform moving up and down. Turtles come at you as usual, but this time the only way to kill them is to jump over them when there's a platform directly above you. If you just leap over a turtle
with nothing above you, you don't kill them. For whatever reason, you've got to bump your head on something or they won't die. Little dollar signs show up in random spots in the upper half of the screen, and touching them gives you bonus points. Once you kill all the baddies, it's back to level 1!

Unlike Punch Ball, this game is actually fun! Neither is half as good as the original Mario Bros., but enjoyable none the less. Not only is the gameplay more enjoyable, it's technically superior to Punch Ball. The graphics look more like the original, and the animation and gameplay is much more smooth. For all their flaws, both are far more playable than Super Mario Bros. Special. That game was just broken. There's nothing particularly wrong with these two games, they're just not as good as the original.


Here's some links with pictures of the PC-6001 version of Punch Ball Mario and Mario Bros. Sepcia, which looks like more of the same: http://www.retropc.net/hashi/emupmario.html and http://www.retropc.net/hashi/emumario.html. I believe Hudson also made a version of Excite Bike for some home computers, but I've never seen any screenshots or gameplay descriptions. Who knows if it's just a port of if there's changes to it.

[Moo Cow]

Cool.
I saw something on this I believe on X-Play.
Thanks for the info, I'd like to play it just to give it a shot.

[joshnickerson]

Interesting. I've never heard of any of these games. Are there any screenshots of Super Mario Bros. Special?

[blue lander]

Any idea what episode of X-Play it was? I'd be seriously suprised if those dopes have even heard of any of the computers it was released on.

There's already a pretty good page on Super Mario Bros. Special, which you can see here: http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/special.htm. I downloaded the disk image, put it on a real disk and played it on my PC-88, and boy does it suck.

[whoisKeel]

Cool I never knew about those.

By some off-chance does anybody know if there is a rom hack out there for SMB1 (NES) that has the level design of Super Mario Bros. Special. What I mean is play SMBS levels but on the NES SMB1 rom. The original SMBS is unplayable (IMO).

[christhegamer]

Brilliant!!! Man, we can always count on you to get the poop and then some on obscure titles, blue lander :)

[blue lander]

I'm glad you guys find it interesting! Hudson released a bunch of really weird stuff in the early 80's, especially for NEC's computer line. Has anybody seen the first person Bomberman game they made for the PC-6001 in the early 80's? It's nearly impossible to find any information on it.

I found a link with some screenshots of Hudson's version of Excite Bike. It looks like it was only released for the PC-8801, and that there are no interesting enhancements or changes. Seems like the same game except using the ugly blue/yellow pallette all PC-88 games seem to have.

http://www2.licorp.co.jp/pugly/index.php?p=PC88_GAMEINFO&id=30

http://www2.licorp.co.jp/pugly/oldpc/image/excite_bike2.jpg

[InsaneDavid]

Any idea what episode of X-Play it was? I'd be seriously suprised if those dopes have even heard of any of the computers it was released on.

Hey, don't diss the Sess, it's not his fault that G4 makes him downplay his knowledge of the industry. ;) If you remember the old episodes of Gamespot TV or Extended Play or ran into him at the Metreon then you'd have a totally different view.

Great information by the way! :)

[blue lander]

I had quite a few conversations with him and some other Extended Play writers back on the old TechTV boards, and my impression was that while they know more than the average gamer, they're not exactly classic gaming afficianados. Some of them were pretty sharp and nice guys, though. Particularly Greg Bemis and Adam Urbanek.

[cyberfluxor]

Nice post man! Those games look pretty cool and fun.

[vintagegamecrazy]

That's pretty cool to hear of, probably pretty collectable. It's cool to hear about obscure stuff that no one's heard of.

[blue lander]

Tonight I'm going to try to make a tap file of it so people can play it via emulator.

[rbudrick]

SMBS would be so damn har dif I could use a game pad. I'm relatively good with the directional arrows on a keyboard, but man what a pain in the ass!

Anyway, I jumped on a turtle in level 1-1 and he kept bouncing off the pipe ala 3-1 in smb1...I do believe that with a little practice the infinite lives trick can be done anywhere there is a turtle and a wall. Anyone care to prove me right?

-Rob

[Flack]

Thank you so much for sharing these -- I'd never even heard of them before!

There's a joke in there somewhere about Mario having some big red balls but I won't go there.

[jcalder8]

I never knew anyone besides Nintendo put out SMB games. I'll have to try them out. It seems like they would be rather collectible.

[donkeykong1]

That's a cool link. Thanx, I never knew these existed. I would love to own these one day.

[Jumpman Jr.]

That's actually really really cool. I've never even heard of these games until you mentioned them, and now (being the huge Mario fan that I am) I really want to go out and buy them. Both of those games look like they would be really fun to play, especially that trampoline level. Damn, I want to play that.

[tanda]

Thanks for posting this, and doing some great research!

I also never knew about these games, and have always liked what Hudson had come out with. Good job.

[FullCircle]

I never knew anyone besides Nintendo put out SMB games. I'll have to try them out. It seems like they would be rather collectible.
Software Toolworks also released two Mario franchise games for the NES; Mario is Missing! and Mario's Time Machine. Then you've got Hotel Mario produced by Philips Fantasy Factory.

The Mario Punch Ball game was redone Virtual Boy style in Mario Clash, where you threw objects from the background and hit your enemies in the foreground. This was also a mini game in at least one Wario Ware.

[rbudrick]

I've tried a hundred times to get that turtle trick to work correctly to rack up my lives...I can almost do it. I bounced off the turtle four or five times in a row, but I can't get the timing right. The play control is just so damn tough....it's so "off" from the original SMB game. ARROW KEYS SUCK!!!

I know it'll work if I could just get it right. This game really wouldn't be bad at all other than the scrolling issue if I could only use a gamepad. With a hundred lives, this game could actually be beatable! LOL

-Rob

[anagrama]

Wow, great post man! Once again, I'm in awe of your knowledge on these obscure JP computer systems. Keep it up! :)

[rbudrick]

I found the classic Hudson Bee in SMBS! It is in level 1-1...when you get to the screen that has the pipe with a block enclosure around it, kill the goombas, and jump in the air near the middle of the screen. I coin block will appear. Get on that block and jump straight up. Another block will appear with the Hudson Bee in it. I *think* it gave me 8000 points. Now, you may remember seeing the bee in games such as Husdon's Adventure Island, and Milon's Secret Castle. In these games, if you found it, it allowed you to continue.

In an amazing stroke of luck, the first time I found the bee, I finally managed to pull off the 1Up trick. I was in level 1-2 and a turtle approached me while I stood in front of a block behind me (well, there was 1 block of space or so between us). I jumped straight in the air and landed on him. I got to 19 lives (that's hexadecimal, so I guess I got 26 lives before the shell swept out from under me. I made it to level 2-2, which is indeed a water level.

So when I finally ran out of lives, there was no continue option on screen. I held left and then hit the start button (ala Milon's Secret Castle), but I started on 1-1. Hmmm...It's gotta be a continue Bee. In Adventure Island, you held A and then start to continue once the bee was found, but that's impossible in SMBS, since both action buttons start the game no matter what. I wonder what the trick is. Anyone care to give it a whirl? At least we know you don't hold left...

BTW, there is major slowdown when the pirana plants or the spinning fire sticks are on screen.

Hey, at least we know that withthe infinite lives trick proven and the bee, the game is probably quite possible now.

EDIT: When in level 1-2 I found it is extremely easy to rack up a buttload of lives. Go a couple screns over from the beginning where you see two turtles. As I said before, stand one block away from the staircase behind you. Just when the turtle is about to touch you, jump high in the air. You are practically guaranteed to pull it off. Also, it doesn't have the 128 lives limit as in the nes game. It looks like it just resets the count after 256 (FF). Man, it's so easy to do now!

Does anyone else have problems with this game freezing?

-Rob

[blue lander]

Cool! I wonder if there's hidden Hudson Bees in the other two Mario games. Once I can find my mono audio cable I'll try to make a tape image of the games and upload them.

Speaking of Hudson's Nintendo games, besides the three Mario games and Excite Bike it looks like they ported Nintendo's first Golf game to the Sharp X1 as well.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6448/nisi86img600x4501146065323cimg.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6773/nisi86img600x4501146065327cimg.jpg

I wonder how many other first-gen NES games Hudson ported...

[Neb]

Great detective work, blue lander! Man, these games are so cool... I gotta' find a way to try them now. I’ve never once heard of these games, or for that matter, a connection like this between Nintendo and Hudson. Then again, I know nothing about the early Japanese computers mentioned here. Heh, time to do some research.


Some of them were pretty sharp and nice guys, though. Particularly Greg Bemis and Adam Urbanek.

Cool! I didn’t expect to see Bemis’ name here. Ironically enough, I JUST (like, no more than a half an hour ago) had my final class in “Game History and Playability Testing,” taught by Greg Bemis, none the less. He teaches here at Champlain College (http://www.champlain.edu/majors/communications/faculty/) now, but still writes reviews for X-Play (at least the online part of it) from Vermont.

[Flack]

I never knew anyone besides Nintendo put out SMB games. I'll have to try them out. It seems like they would be rather collectible.
Software Toolworks also released two Mario franchise games for the NES; Mario is Missing! and Mario's Time Machine. Then you've got Hotel Mario produced by Philips Fantasy Factory.

The Mario Punch Ball game was redone Virtual Boy style in Mario Clash, where you threw objects from the background and hit your enemies in the foreground. This was also a mini game in at least one Wario Ware.
Don't forget Mario Teaches Typing 1 and 2 and Mario's Game Gallery by Interplay for the PC.

[rbudrick]

ESC pauses SMBS....man I tried every key before I thought of that.

Neat trick: If you hold ESC while starting the game, Mario will run left forever. Running out of lives and restarting doesn't fix it. You have to reset the machine!

-Rob

[Pete Rittwage]

There are several games packs you can find around for the PC88 that have other Nintendo games, such as Excitebike and Ice Climber and many other Taito and Namco games of that era. You have to just blindly pick through the Japanese menu selections (unless you can read Kanji, that is) until you recognize the games.

So if you are into the obscure, there you go. Aren't we all curious?

Pete Rittwage
C64 Preservation Project
http://c64preservation.com

[Pete Rittwage]

Some are even advanture games from Enix, which later of course became Square/Enix of today. They are all in Kanji, though.

[blue lander]

Aside from the curiosity factor, I wouldn't go out of my way to download PC-8001 or PC-8801 games. Besides the terrific sound capabilities of the later models, it didn't have too much going for it. The pallette is limited, it's not very good at scrolling, and many games don't support playing via a gamepad because not all models in the series support one. Also, be careful of early Enix titles. Many of them were hentai-based, oddly enough.

[ClubNinja]

Also, be careful of early Enix titles. Many of them were hentai-based, oddly enough.

So,.. what's the problem?

[rbudrick]

I have some bad news, folks...SMBS may truly be unbeatable. First of all, I spent about 200 lives trying to get past level 4-3...I'd come to a screen that was basically a pit with a ledge at the far side. There was no way over there. Like I said, it took about 200 lives, but I finally figured out how to do it, and it has to do with triggering something two screens previous...I don't know if this is an emu glitch, bad programming, or something done on purpose, but you know those elevators in SMB where one goes up and the other down? Well you have to time your jump to the millisecond so that when you jump off it, they fall off the bottom and you land on the ledge between them. Next, you go two screens over and a platform that wouldn't have been there otherwise has appeared. Pretty fucking shitty, huh!!?

Now, if level 4-3 was almost impossible, level 4, unfortunately is 100% impossible. I'll show you why...look at these pics. I found that there are two possible routes in 4-4 and they both take you to glitched screens that are impassable Gander here:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-4.jpg
After coming down a pipe, I fell here. Note the block under Mario's feet. On this screen, blocks of that exact look are the only things you can step on. Anything else and you fall through the bottom. I managed to go one screen over to this screen:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-4b.jpg

Yep. A wall. I even looked for hidden coin blocks, but nada.

Now, like I said, there's a second way to go in this level and I ended up here:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-4c.jpg
Note the right enge of the screen. As soon as you hit that green stuff, you fall down and die. On one of my very last lives, I jumped right near the edge of the screen and got to here:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-4d.jpg

The whole screen is an abyss. You die.

Now, with that in mind, the only way to beat this game is via warp zones....or perhaps a real PC 88 or a different emulator, I dunno. I did not find any warp zones, but I had some major suspicions there was one in level 4-2. The only problem is it is nearly impossible to get to the end of the level (which is the only place you can jump over the top) as Super Mario...you have to be Super Mario to break the blocks above you.

With all that said, I have some good news. Some levels have the crabs from the original Mario Bros as enemies, and some levels have the barrels from Donkey Kong! Some levels even have stalagtites that fall from the top.

To be honest, some of the level designs in this game are excellent. There's a buttload of secrets in this game, and if the controls and scrolling weren't so damn bad, it would be an awesome SMB game.

-Rob

[Moo Cow]

I have some bad news, folks...SMBS may truly be unbeatable. First of all, I spent about 200 lives trying to get past level 4-3...I'd come to a screen that was basically a pit with a ledge at the far side. There was no way over there. Like I said, it took about 200 lives, but I finally figured out how to do it, and it has to do with triggering something two screens previous...I don't know if this is an emu glitch, bad programming, or something done on purpose, but you know those elevators in SMB where one goes up and the other down? Well you have to time your jump to the millisecond so that when you jump off it, they fall off the bottom and you land on the ledge between them. Next, you go two screens over and a platform that wouldn't have been there otherwise has appeared. Pretty fucking shitty, huh!!?

Now, if level 4-3 was almost impossible, level 4, unfortunately is 100% impossible. I'll show you why...look at these pics. I found that there are two possible routes in 4-4 and they both take you to glitched screens that are impassable Gander here:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-4.jpg
After coming down a pipe, I fell here. Note the block under Mario's feet. On this screen, blocks of that exact look are the only things you can step on. Anything else and you fall through the bottom. I managed to go one screen over to this screen:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-4b.jpg

Yep. A wall. I even looked for hidden coin blocks, but nada.

Now, like I said, there's a second way to go in this level and I ended up here:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-4c.jpg
Note the right enge of the screen. As soon as you hit that green stuff, you fall down and die. On one of my very last lives, I jumped right near the edge of the screen and got to here:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-4d.jpg

The whole screen is an abyss. You die.

Now, with that in mind, the only way to beat this game is via warp zones....or perhaps a real PC 88 or a different emulator, I dunno. I did not find any warp zones, but I had some major suspicions there was one in level 4-2. The only problem is it is nearly impossible to get to the end of the level (which is the only place you can jump over the top) as Super Mario...you have to be Super Mario to break the blocks above you.

With all that said, I have some good news. Some levels have the crabs from the original Mario Bros as enemies, and some levels have the barrels from Donkey Kong! Some levels even have stalagtites that fall from the top.

To be honest, some of the level designs in this game are excellent. There's a buttload of secrets in this game, and if the controls and scrolling weren't so damn bad, it would be an awesome SMB game.

-Rob
Wow, interesting...a game that's impossible to beat the regular way (assuming it's not the emulator's fault).

I'll have to download this and see if I can find any warp zones.

[rbudrick]

Wow, interesting...a game that's impossible to beat the regular way (assuming it's not the emulator's fault).

I'll have to download this and see if I can find any warp zones.

When I started 4-2, I actually jumped over the top of the screen and went down a pipe on the other side to enter the level rather than go down the pipe that was already onscreen after finishing 4-1. I really thought I had found a warp zone, but no luck. I wonder if both pipes just take you to the same place. Anyway, if you can make it to the end of 4-2 while still super Mario, see if you can jump over the top there. I just don't have the patience to get there again...it took hours. Also, if you are low on lives in 4-2, I believe there's turtles and beetles you can use to rack up your lives again (actually the first level where beetles appear...and crabs). It is the last stop to do so, cuz 4-3 and 4-4 have no places to stomp an enemy against a wall. Of course, if you find a warp zone, you needn't worry about 4-3 or 4-4 unless there's a warp zone in those two levels somewhere!

Other than that, there could be vines anywhere that take you to a warp zone, but all the vines I found were just cloud/coin zones.

I still haven't figured out what the Hudson Bee does, though I still assume it's a continue power up.. I can't figure out any continue codes for it, though.

You know, this game would probably bee the easiest mario game to map using screen grabs...

-Rob

[Moo Cow]

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/smbspecial.zip
If you wanna give it a try also, here's the download.

[Moo Cow]

argh...how do I do the text/url thing :/

[rbudrick]

Your bracket has to go after the L in URL, not before the I in If. I believe you put the [/url] after your text by mistake, instead of after the URL itself. Of course, if you wanted your message to be clickable, I never knew how to do that. LOL LOL


Or, you can paste the URL and then highlight it and click the URL button above...it puts the tags on automatically.

-Rob

[Moo Cow]

Thanks Rob.

[Pete Rittwage]

That download doesn't contain the PC88 roms, so it won't play the game, I don't think. I found one called M88 that seems to be more modern and play better.

[InsaneDavid]

argh...how do I do the text/url thing :/

This thread here (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79717) explains all you need to know about linkage. :)

[Jorpho]

I'm thinking it's a corrupted ROM image at fault.

[rbudrick]

I'm thinking it's a corrupted ROM image at fault.

Totally could be just a bad dump, but we'll never know unless someone dumps it again...or writes the online image to a PC8801 disk somehow and plays it on the real thing.

-Rob

[Pete Rittwage]

Have you tried playing through it on a newer emulator? M88 looks a bit more modern, but still might just be based on the same code.

[rbudrick]

No, I haven't...maybe I'll give that a shot.

EDIT: Ok, got M88. Good news: save states. Bad news: Can't use arrow keys...number keypad only. The menus are all messed up (not english, just unintelligible characters). Is there a known way to use the arrow keys instead? Pressing NumLock doesn't work in this emu. Also, what menu setting do I adjust to turn scanlines off?

-Rob

[blue lander]

I'm thinking it's a corrupted ROM image at fault.

Totally could be just a bad dump, but we'll never know unless someone dumps it again...or writes the online image to a PC8801 disk somehow and plays it on the real thing.

-Rob

[rbudrick]

Ok, I got to 4-4 again using M88, and I must say it was 10 times easier...not just because of the save states, as I honestly didn't use them a whole hell of a lot. I swear, M88 just controls so much better...still very clunky, but not nearly as much so. The number pad really wasn't that bad to use, since you really only use left and right and the occasional down to duck or use a pipe.

Anyway, the game did indeed glitch up in the same spot. So, unless we get a new dump or play it on the real thing, we may never know more about this game.

There are some traps in this game. In 4-3, you climb a vine and end up here:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/rbudrick/smbs4-3trap.jpg

There's no way out. None that I can see, anyway. There's a pipe right at the end of the level that it looks like you can come out of, as if they forgot program to link the two pipes, but I dunno.

Also, I finally was able to get over the top of the end of 4-2. It does indeed lead you to a pipe, but it is no warp zone. You go down the pipe and then you wait until the time runs out and you die. Nice, huh? BTW, at the very beginning of 4-2, you can jump over the wall in front of you to get to another pipe to go down, but it leads you to the exact same place as the non-hidden pipe. Go figure.

Also, I was able to find out that the 4-3 trick where you have to sink the elevators is still present using M88...I still think that's the shittiest dirty trick ever in a Mario game.

So, anyone got any idea how to proceed here? BTW, I can send someone my 4-4 save file if they wanna upload it somewhere for others to try the 4-4 glitch right off the bat. BTW, the path in 4-4 when it branches is up, up, down. Up, Up, Up takes you to the second glitched area. Anywhere else leads you back to the beginning.

Oh, and stalagtites can be killed by fireballs, donkey kong barrels can not. Bowser does not turn into one of his underlings when killed by fireball.

-Rob

[alec]

This is cool. Those are some Mario games I've never heard of. Its interesting to know they exist, although they don't look that fun to play.

[mojofltr]

Great thread! It's pretty cool to find out about these games so many years after the fact. :)

Here is a link a couple PC-88 multicart ROMs that contain Punchball Mario and Mario Bros Special. They worked fine, for me, with the emulator that was linked above. http://mojofltr.sitesled.com/mario.zip

[blue lander]

I'll copy it to disk and try it out with my PC-88 and give it a try.

[rbudrick]

Great thread! It's pretty cool to find out about these games so many years after the fact.

Here is a link a couple PC-88 multicart ROMs that contain Punchball Mario and Mario Bros Special. They worked fine, for me, with the emulator that was linked above. http://mojofltr.sitesled.com/mario.zip

Punchball and orig Mario Bros are there, but no SMBS.

Shyougi Taikyoku and Shyougi Meijin on the #09 disk (the second and third games on it don't work at all, as far as I could tell on both emulators.


I'll copy it to disk and try it out with my PC-88 and give it a try.

Cool. Best of luck, man. Anyone here have the original disks to dump?

-Rob

[mojofltr]

Punchball and orig Mario Bros are there, but no SMBS.

-Rob

The Super Mario Bros Special ROM that Moo Cow linked above worked fine for me (I just had to download the PC88.ROM bios and put it in the emulator folder. :)

I actually enjoy both Punchball Mario and Mario Bros Special, but Super Mario Bros Special kinda sucks, IMO. :P

[rbudrick]

The Super Mario Bros Special ROM that Moo Cow linked above worked fine for me (I just had to download the PC88.ROM bios and put it in the emulator folder.

I actually enjoy both Punchball Mario and Mario Bros Special, but Super Mario Bros Special kinda sucks, IMO.

Oh, I know, hence my posts above. It's just that it sounded like in the post that SMBS was in the multicarts.

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

I never knew anyone besides Nintendo put out SMB games. I'll have to try them out. It seems like they would be rather collectible.
Software Toolworks also released two Mario franchise games for the NES; Mario is Missing! and Mario's Time Machine. Then you've got Hotel Mario produced by Philips Fantasy Factory.

The Mario Punch Ball game was redone Virtual Boy style in Mario Clash, where you threw objects from the background and hit your enemies in the foreground. This was also a mini game in at least one Wario Ware.
Don't forget Mario Teaches Typing 1 and 2 and Mario's Game Gallery by Interplay for the PC.
I recently had the "pleasure" of playing the Mario Teaches Typing (1, I guess) demo. I dunno - maybe it was MTT 2 I played back in the day, because this was not much like what I remembered. Very basic, and the redrawn sprites aren't terribly good. I've got Mario's Game Gallery (both the Mac demo and the full PC release), and I'm kinda scared to see how bad it must be.

Anyhow, thanks for all the information, Blue Lander. Google doesn't know any of this stuff (aside from SMB Special, which is just starting to get known due to its appearance on a few sites).

[rbudrick]

I'll copy it to disk and try it out with my PC-88 and give it a try.

Any luck with this, Blue?

-Rob

[blue lander]

Ack, I completely forgot about this. I just need to remember how to copy PC-88 disks from a PC.

Speaking of Hudson and Nintendo, It looks like Hudson ported nearly all of Nintendo's very early NES efforts to home computers. Most appear to be exact ports (more or less), but a few like the Mario Bros games have been modified. Check out this screenshot of Donkey Kong 3: Large Counterattack

http://www.retropc.net/fm-7/screenshots/500790300-2.png

[tom]

The Sharp MZ700 also received a couple of Mario Bros games. Wonder if Hudson did those too.

I guess Hudson was like a Japanese Atari, making Nintendo games for other consoles/computers.

[idrougge]

Does anyone have the courage to write something about Zemina's SMB efforts for the Zemmix? I'm afraid I can't stomach it right now...

[blue lander]

The Sharp MZ700 also received a couple of Mario Bros games. Wonder if Hudson did those too.



Really? I'm suprised the mz700 could pull off a decent Mario port. Are you sure it wasn't the mz-800 or 1500?

Anyways, I finally found the utility I need to copy pc-88 images to disk. It's called DITT. Hopefully I'll be able to remember how to work it (directions are in Japanese).

[ganonbanned]

wow, i wonder how much there worth

[cmstar]

I've known of the existance of Super Mario Special for PC-8801 for sometime now. However, I only recently found a download of the game and ran it in an emulator. I LOVE it. I'm a huge SMB fan, and if you hook up a controller to your pc, this isn't a bad game at all. It's a real welcome new challenge.

Thanks to this board I now know of more Mario goodness. I'd never eve heard of a Zemmix. Odd I've never heard of these releases before, they're not even on wikipedia.

Could we compile a list of all Mario/Super Mario games on systems previous to 1990???

Also, I can play SMBS on a Windows PC-8801 emulator. But it seems the disk image actaully contains multiple floppies. I need inidividual floppy images to be able to play this on a Mac. Does anyone have this or tools to extract the individual floppies?

Thanks for all the info. This is my new favorite gaming site.

[tom]

blu lander said: >>>>>Really? I'm suprised the mz700 could pull off a decent Mario port. Are you sure it wasn't the mz-800 or 1500?<<<<<

Sort of, I read this in my German book of 'Spielkonsolen und Heimcomputer' under Sharp MZ series (MZ80, MZ80B, MZ2000, MZ700, MZ800, MZ2500). I know Germans video game knowledge is sometimes debatable, but I have seen a 'Mappy' for the MZ700, so this could be true about Mario, and even Thunderforce and Rally X, according to the article. (Actually just reading it, it says Hudson did the Mario port for the MZ, doh). But, the article does not clarify either MZ700-only or MZ800-only and also lists the MZ800 is almost MZ 700 compatible, so you make up your own mind.
(sorry about the bad pic quality)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c173/thomasholzer/Picture002.jpg

[blue lander]

Huh! I'm almost positive Thunderforce came out for the MZ-1500, not the MZ-700. And I'm sure I've seen MZ-800 versions of Mappy and Rally-X. The MZ-700 isn't capabale of much more than extremely crude . I'd imagine whoever wrote that is rather confused, as the picture is of a MZ-80, not an MZ 700 or 800 (Although the 700 was backwards compatible with the 80).

[y-bot]

I just picked up Mario Bros. Special at a flea market in Tokyo in April for $5. I hadn't even heard of it before. Here's a pic:

http://www.hevanet.com/ccorner/tobys009.jpg

y-bot

[tom]

blue lander, you seem to know about the MZ700.

I own one and would like to know how many games they had released for it?
Any idea?

So far I got the following for MZ700:
Galaxians, Nightmare Park, Dragons Caves, Chock-a-Block, all from Solo Software
plus the two games tapes from Sharp with 5 games on each tape.

[rbudrick]

Well the 800 was basically a 700 with an included Quickdisk drive, iirc. The 1500 and the 800 were the same, only the 1500 was the Japan-only version. If anyone finds these games, I have a MZ-1500 if anyone needs to test these on the real thing.

Since the Famicom Disk games were just longer quickdisks, does anyone know how to copy them using an MZ-1500? I've heard it's possible, but I wasn't sure how.

-Rob

[cmstar]

Can anyone get the Super Mario Special disk image to run on a Mac PC-88 emulator? It runs fine on a pc. I'm having a hard time on a Mac cause every emulator is in Japanese.

Where any other Super Mario (not just Mario Bros.) games released on other computers?

[blue lander]

Well the 800 was basically a 700 with an included Quickdisk drive, iirc. The 1500 and the 800 were the same, only the 1500 was the Japan-only version. If anyone finds these games, I have a MZ-1500 if anyone needs to test these on the real thing.

-Rob

Are you sure? The 800 games I've seen have had considerably better graphics than the 700. I thought they were two distinct systems. I know the 1500 and 800 are internally identical, but I think there's enough changes to the BIOS that a game written for one won't run on the other.

Back to SMBS, I still haven't been able to successfully make a copy of the disk image. I'm going to try a different disk drive. However, I found out that there's also a Sharp X1 version of the game, and I even found a picture of the box...

http://www.geocities.com/haohmaruus/smb.jpg


I'd be very suprised if the X1 version didn't support a joypad (although I'm not sure if the X1 pad has two buttons).

[rbudrick]

Are you sure? The 800 games I've seen have had considerably better graphics than the 700. I thought they were two distinct systems. I know the 1500 and 800 are internally identical, but I think there's enough changes to the BIOS that a game written for one won't run on the other.

Hmm, yeah, your're probably right. I found this link:

http://www.old-computers.com/MUSEUM/computer.asp?c=208

I remember researching these a great deal when I was shopping around for a1500, but I think my memory is just remember ing stuff incorrectly. I think the correction would be that the 800 did pretty much anything the 700 could do and more...

Anyway, I noticed this on wikipedia:


MZ-800 (1985) - The first MZ with a 640x200-pixel graphics mode. Not available in Japan.
MZ-1500 (1984) - Features 320x200-pixel graphics and built-in sound capability. The tape recorder has been replaced with a floppy drive that reads 2.8-inch Quick Disks.

News to me...I thought they were basically identical. More likely someone just failed to mention the 1500 had that other graphic mode too...

-Rob

[blue lander]

I've been meaning to get more into the MZ family of computers. I specifically want an MZ-1500 and track down one of the few versions of Thunderforce I I'm missing (I already have the PC JX, PC-8801, and FM-7 version. I still need the X1, MZ-1500, and PC-6001 versions).

Anyways, I just won an auction for the X1 version of Super Mario Bros. Special, but it's just for the box and the manuals (no software). So I'll scan in a high res picture of the covers and anything interesting in the manual once it arrives. Hopefully there'll be some screenshots of the X1 version on the back.

[Papa Geno]

Thanks guys! Didn't even Know this existed. I want to eventually copy the level design onto a NES rom. Who need New Super Mario Bros. When you have this!

[rbudrick]

Well, you'd have to add some things like new enemies and sprites and a few other things. If you can disassemble the disk image and find the parts of the code corresponding to these, I'm sure it's possible to convert them to 6502 somehow and add them. That'd be a huge pain in the balls, though.

-Rob

[Jorpho]

I think he intends to use one of the many SMB level editors out there and copy the level layouts from screenshots.

[rbudrick]

I think he intends to use one of the many SMB level editors out there and copy the level layouts from screenshots.

Yeah, I know, but some of the level designs won't really work true to SMBS without the extras in SMBS. Plus, good luck finding all the secrets in it. ;) It might be a worth it to disassmble that game just to analyze it to see where everything is. It sure would be awesome to have an NES version of SMBS

-Rob

[rbudrick]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hudson-MARIO-BROS-SPECIAL-NEC-PC-6001-mkII-Japan-Import_W0QQitemZ160005274636QQihZ006QQcategoryZ431 5QQcmdZViewItem


SMBS for PC-6001. Is there an emu for this computer? Could someone please buy this and dump it?

EDIT: I almost forgot...this is Y-bot's auction...I shoulda mentioned that. It was posted in his everything ebay post.

Anyway, can this just be dumped to a wav file and then easily converted to a bin somehow? Can any old platform's tapes be preserved this way? I remember that's how the old VCS Supercharger tapes used to be dumped...

-Rob

[blue lander]

That isn't Super Mario Bros Special, it's Mario Bros Special. There is an emulator for the P6, but I've never used it. I think there's a relatively generic program that'll convert wav files to dat files that many of these emulators use, but all the documentation is in Japanese.

[rbudrick]

Ah, so it is. My bad. Sorry, folks.

You may have won this time, Lander. But I'll get you next time! BWA HA HA HA!!!

-Rob