Official PS3 Thread: 11/17/06; Price $599 (for premium)

[FurinkanianFrood]

The PSP is the fastest selling Sony platform in history.


Maybe it is (I haven't checked the numbers), but except during shortages the DS has been outselling it like 6 to 1. The PSP though, for what it's worth, did try quite a bit harder to make a run at the N's portable dominance than most others did. (I can hear people saying, "but PSP hasn't lost yet", but the writing is on the wall.

Sony has made a bit less of a mistake than I thought they would, in the sense that they at least abandoned the dopey batarang.

As for the good version of the console costing $600 (and the $500 one looks to be far more screwed up than the $300 360 is), I personally hope that it prevents them from destroying the competition.

Even if you don't want to see Sony get knocked down a few hundred notches, you ahve to admit it would suck if their competition screwed up to the point of giving them the kind of market share the NES once had, but with no end in sight.

Microshaft has made a boner with the 360 IMHO.

Other than the name (Whii, Nintendo, whii!?), the Rev still seems like it will be interesting enough. Hopefully something will drive a few devs away from the other systems so it can actually have some real 3rd party support.

$600 game system..... If it sells my views on consumers intelligence will be..... actually confirmed. If I had that kind of scratch, I'd rather buy a Wondermega or AES Pulstar or something actually cool like that.

Let's hope I'm not as crazy as I seem, ne?

[Slimedog]

In my opinion this is a bad choice by Sony. They put their money on technical quality over a competitive price. Not a good decision at all.

If you ask me they put their money on blu-ray over a competitive price.

Agreed. If this thing didn't have a blu-ray drive, but instead had a 12X DVD drive, how much cheaper could it have been? What is the advatage of Blu-Ray in terms of gaming? Does the disc hold more information? If so, wouldn't it have been easier just to release double-disc games?

I'm not much of a technophile, so maybe I just don't understand. All I see is a $600 video gaming rig.

As an amusing aside, the Atari VCS was $300 when it launched, which is over $900 in 2005 dollars.

Chris

The whole Blu-Ray thing is more about making Blu-Ray the industry standard than about using a format best suited for gaming. All of Sony's eggs are in the Blu-Ray basket and their future depends on it beating out HD-DVD. They are using the PS3 to get Blu-Ray into as many homes as possible. Blu-Ray has nothing to do with making better games.

[gepeto]

I have been around long enough to know price does matter.
People have a limit. invincible #1's have been knocked off the top more times than I can remember. Sony is no different. When Sonys rep made the Psp Gaming Ghetto quote the handheld ball was in sonys court. If bets were being taken on the psp vs the ds at that time Odds were 6 to 1 that the psp would smoke the ds. Boy the worm has turned. Nintendo gets my respect in on one.

The psp is a good example. portable next gen technology price too high = 2nd place. Sure nintendo creative games are making the ds the thing too have but had the psp shipped at $150.00 it and umd's would be in much better shape.

Forget the propaganda. I can honestly say. Having stop at multiple game stores every day. I can't remember anyone buying a psp. I heard them inquire but not buy.
Remember there were plenty of psp on the shelves week 1 and 2. Matter of fact Gamestop sent out trade in bonus emails 3 weeks after launch because people weren't buying
That is the only reason I bought one. It was something like trade in 4 or more games towards a psp get 50% more trade in credit. I was totally shocked when I got the email.
Then I thought about it and the psp was just not moving like everyone thought.

Lets get some game store managers to chime in on this one for in store sales facts.

You can't compare the xbox 360 ebay price hype to normal people walking into a store and buying a 600.00 videogames system. Most systems have a good launch its the time after the launch that counts the most.

One more thing all the trade ins in the world wont make a dent in a 600.00 + 60 game price tag.

[petewhitley]

The PSP is the fastest selling Sony platform in history.


Maybe it is (I haven't checked the numbers), but except during shortages the DS has been outselling it like 6 to 1.

My god. I suppose you researched that fact?

In other news the world is flat ... (and other lies I read on GameFAQs).

[Rev. Link]

The psp is a good example. portable next gen technology price too high = 2nd place. Sure nintendo creative games are making the ds the thing too have but had the psp shipped at $150.00 it and umd's would be in much better shape.

I agree with that completely. Despite some of the technical problems with the system (dead pixels, bad square button, etc.) I do think the PSP is worth owning, especially now that some great looking games are coming out for it. But I refuse to spend that kind of money on a handheld. Flat out refuse.

Hell, I didn't even want to spend $150 on a DS, and I love Nintendo to death. The only reason I got a DS is 'cuz I was lucky enough to get it for Christmas. I wouldn't have bought it on my own at $150.

[Jibbajaba]

The PSP is the fastest selling Sony platform in history.


Maybe it is (I haven't checked the numbers), but except during shortages the DS has been outselling it like 6 to 1.

My god. I suppose you researched that fact?

In other news the world is flat ... (and other lies I read on GameFAQs).

I doubt that that number is that far off. I know WAY more people who have DSes than have PSPs. And I think it is an excellent point that the price is a turn off for a lot of people. But just like the PS3, you can't have that kind of cutting edge technology without paying for it. I am not trying to be a Sony apologist here, but the PS3 is more expensive because it has more shit. Blu-Ray (I dont give a shit), HDMI, Wi-fi, motion sensing controllers, and a fatter HD. If you want to drop the cabbage for the most pimped out system, then there it is. Me? I don't give a shit about bells and whistles like that. I am all about the gameplay. The Wii is the only system that seems to bring something new to the table. I don't need to play GTA 4. I have 1, 2, 3, VC, and SA. I dont need to play Gran Turismo HD either. I have 1,2,3, and 4. And yeah, the PS3 now has the same motion sensing shit going on :roll: , but it is going to be a gimmick that most games don't use in my opinion. Like the HD on the PS2. It's there as a selling point, but will hardly be touched.

If I was actually going to spend $600 on a gaming system, I would put it into upgrading my PC to current gaming standards. For those of you who can justify spending that kind of money just to get some better graphics, more power to you. I personally can't, and I make a pretty good living.

Chris

[Leo_A]

The numbers don't lie, the PSP is right on the tails of the DS. I believe just about every month since the PSP launched in the US, it has outsold the DS.

[Rev. Link]

PSP outselling DS? Where are you getting your info? 'Cuz everything I've read in all the gaming mags and all the big game news sites says otherwise.

[hezeuschrist]

The PSP vs. DS Race is far closer than the Nintendo faithful would let you believe. In all fairness there is an absolute wealth of misinformation out there from many reputable sources.

Nintendo has SOLD 16 million DS units to consumers. Sony has SHIPPED 17 million PSP units. Those numbers are straight from the press conferences. The gap there of a few million could easily be stopped if Sony bothered to release something that's compeltely killer for the PSP. Until then, they've got nothing. GTA didn't do it, and I think the only thing that can is FFVII: Crisis Core. If that doesn't do it, they've got to plan a new strategy.

The gap will grow temporarily with the launch of the DS Lite in the NA and EU markets, but the gap will never be over 10 million units. Last sales numbers I've heard on the PSP are around 13-14 million, that's only 2-3 million difference. That's nothing, any triple A blockbuster title could move nearly that many units in the span of a month or two.

[Anthony1]

How did this degenerate into a PSP vs. DS sales argument? Come on folks, let's get back on point. This is all about the PS3, and there is plenty to discuss with the PS3, namely



the lack of RUMBLE for PS3 controllers!!!!!




I still can't get over that. Plus, I've heard that the motion sensor in the PS3 controller is like a cheapo childs toy version compared to the one in the Wii wand. It was a last minute thing, and Sony's pride prevented them from licensing the rights to rumble from Immersion, after they lost that lawsuit and have to pay them a shitload of money anyways. It was like adding insult to injury for them to come crawling back to immersion and giving them a boatload of money for the lawsuit, and then a second boatload of money to use Rumble in the PS3.


But to let their pride get in the way of smart business sense? Sure the Rumble feature might not be that huge a feature for alot of people, but it's going to seem really weird not to have it, and it kinda taints my idea of some of the gaming experiences that I'm going to have on the PS3. There shouldn't be anything missing from my PS3 experience, but there is going to be a big void in certain games with no rumble. I couldn't imagine playing Call of Duty 2 on the Xbox 360 if it had no rumble. It would have still been a great game, but something would have definitely been missing from the experience. Really, all FPS benefit greatly from an intelligent use of the rumble feature. It lets you know when you've been shot, how bad you are hurt, if you were too close to a grenade explosion, your heartbeat, etc, etc.


I mean, when I played Madden 06 for the 360, I noticed right away that for some weird reason that version didn't use Rumble. It's the strangest thing why Madden 06 didn't use Rumble, but I definitely noticed it. When a linebacker comes up and smacks you down at the line of scrimmage, you are supposed to feel it!

[DeputyMoniker]

the lack of RUMBLE for PS3 controllers!

Oh, no. That's bad news. I was just playing FFX thinking about how cool it is to FEEL the Aeons overdrive. Thats terribly dissapointing. My first reaction was "well, maybe rumble would throw the motion sensativity off" but after a half second of thought I realised games wouldnt have to use both the motion sensativity & rumble feature at the same time. Thats really terrible news. A third party controller featuring rumble isnt even an option because rumble support will still have to be programmed into the game. Man, thats really bad news.

[Damion]

They had to (remove the Rumble) Due to the lawsuit they covered it in like the first five minutes of TwiT. the gyro thing is a last minute add on.

Microsoft was sued to but they managed to settle sometime last year.

[ClubNinja]

Gee. I must be the only person in the world who finds rumbling controllers to be annoying. This is a good change. Everything else about the PS3, though, is poop.

[can_dude]

I'm honestly quite astonished at reading this topic...specifically with the "oh no, Sony stole the wii-mote" comments. I believe in all the posts only two of you were informed. Everyone, even us so called "gamers", are taking the bait on the controller - hook line and sinker. The gut reaction everyone is making is "oh PS3 has a wii-mote too...they stole it from the revolution". Guys, the PS3 controller has 6 directional tilt functionality - the same technology used in Kirby's Tilt and Tumble for Game Boy Color. The only reason sony is adding this cheap (and NOT original) technology is so the everyone will react as if they have what the wii has, which really hurts Nintendos originality factor. They basically have the nunchuck, not the wii-mote. What they really stole was the XBOX360 menu button in the center of the pad. PLEASE dont watch a short snippet of a press conference on mute and make assumptions and, more specifically, get sucked into the marketing strategy...Be the INFORMED gamers.

[WanganRunner]

^^
This man speaks the truth.

If it's any indication of what I think of how the launch will do, I have 10 PS3 Preorders at FYE right now, each with $50 down. I will keep ZERO systems, and re-sell them all on eBay. If hype looks to be low, I'll cancel the orders and get my deposits back.

I think it'll be hot at launch, with hardcore people selling their kidneys to get systems. I DO think that price will severely hurt them in the long run, as most people still don't have digital TV's or any desire to use Blu-Ray's capabilities.

I currently do not own a 360, and won't likely buy one until Halo 3 makes landfall. I WILL be purchasing a Wii at launch and staying home from work for a week to play it.

SCEI was pressured into all this Blu-Ray nonsense by the rest of Sony Corporate, who sees Blu-Ray as their way to establish a media monopoly and inject vitality into their ailing consumer electronics business (Samsung is hurting them badly). Sony is in BIG trouble, regardless of what the initial hype says. They do NOT have the capital to be riding out 2-3 years of rocky sales once the hype dies down and PS3/PSP prices are still sky-high.......

Meanwhile, Nintendo will likely continue to turn a profit on every system, game, and accessory sold.

I don't generally consider myself a Nintendo fanboy, I mean I've always bought every system at launch from every company until this generation. I like the 360 but the software just isn't there yet for me.....as for the PS3....I'll buy that too, eventually, but I still think that Sony's just absolutely bat-shit crazy.

[FantasiaWHT]

Gee. I must be the only person in the world who finds rumbling controllers to be annoying. This is a good change. Everything else about the PS3, though, is poop.

I'm with you. There isn't a single game I enjoy it on. I'm so glad I have my Wavebird :)

[chrisbid]

i wish people would stop with the x console cost y dollars in z year if you follow inflation. electronic prices have decreased heavily since the 1970s. the prices of tvs, vcrs, dvd players, stereos, walkmans, computers, mp3 players, printers, scanners, etc etc etc have all gone down a TON and have added more and more features over the years.

video games have remained fairly steady in the 100-300 range since the 1970s. since inflation has remained fairly low, there is no reason for the sudden increase in prices other than a company trying to do more with a console than just play video games. if it werent for blue ray, the PS3 would be much more affordable. standard DVDs hold plenty of information for current gen and next gen games, and they are inexpensive enough to produce multiple discs per game if this threshold is ever crossed. like the PSP, convergance is rearing its ugly head at the expense of people that really want to play games first and foremost.

on top of that, wages for everyday employees have not increased much over inflation... in fact many people make less now than they did 10 or 20 years ago adjusted for inflation.

[Joker T]

As far as the rumble I hardly notice anymore if a game has it or not.

[dbiersdorf]

As an amusing aside, the Atari VCS was $300 when it launched, which is over $900 in 2005 dollars.

Keep in mind the Atari VCS had no competition at that point and the video game industry has changed dramatically since then. They could get away with a price like that because no one knew what a good price for a video game system was, we've all become accustomed to $200-$300 consoles, which is more then likely why Microsoft went ahead with the two packages to begin with.

This isn't smart on Sony's part at all.

[Damaramu]

Well shit, that settles it. I'm going to do everything I can to get a Wii around or a little after launch.

I'm not going to touch the PS3 until a price drop or two, but I will buy the games I want for it (that way I don't miss out on stuff).

Gah. $600? I could almost get a new PC for that.

[Griking]

I wish Sony would have learned form the PSP. People SAY they want the bells & whistles but when it comes time to open their wallet, theyll tell a different story.

The PSP is the fastest selling Sony platform in history. Some 17 million people have opened their wallets for the PSP. Find a new analogy; preferrably one based on facts.

You have a link to a trustworthy source that confirms those numbers?

[hezeuschrist]

I wish Sony would have learned form the PSP. People SAY they want the bells & whistles but when it comes time to open their wallet, theyll tell a different story.

The PSP is the fastest selling Sony platform in history. Some 17 million people have opened their wallets for the PSP. Find a new analogy; preferrably one based on facts.

You have a link to a trustworthy source that confirms those numbers?

The 17 million number is shipped, and it's directly from Sony at their pre-E3 briefing. Take it with a grain of salt, but I don't see why they'd have any reason to lie about hard sales/shipped numbers. Manipulate, yes, lie, no.

EDIT: From IGN's blogging of the conference:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705742p1.html

5:00: PSP is the fastest-selling system in Sony's history, with 17mil units out there.

[Lothars]

^^
This man speaks the truth.

If it's any indication of what I think of how the launch will do, I have 10 PS3 Preorders at FYE right now, each with $50 down. I will keep ZERO systems, and re-sell them all on eBay. If hype looks to be low, I'll cancel the orders and get my deposits back.

I think it'll be hot at launch, with hardcore people selling their kidneys to get systems. I DO think that price will severely hurt them in the long run, as most people still don't have digital TV's or any desire to use Blu-Ray's capabilities.

I currently do not own a 360, and won't likely buy one until Halo 3 makes landfall. I WILL be purchasing a Wii at launch and staying home from work for a week to play it.

SCEI was pressured into all this Blu-Ray nonsense by the rest of Sony Corporate, who sees Blu-Ray as their way to establish a media monopoly and inject vitality into their ailing consumer electronics business (Samsung is hurting them badly). Sony is in BIG trouble, regardless of what the initial hype says. They do NOT have the capital to be riding out 2-3 years of rocky sales once the hype dies down and PS3/PSP prices are still sky-high.......

Meanwhile, Nintendo will likely continue to turn a profit on every system, game, and accessory sold.

I don't generally consider myself a Nintendo fanboy, I mean I've always bought every system at launch from every company until this generation. I like the 360 but the software just isn't there yet for me.....as for the PS3....I'll buy that too, eventually, but I still think that Sony's just absolutely bat-shit crazy.

That's a great post, I know what you mean about that

I honestly think Sony should change the price to either 549 or 499 and drop the cheaper version

IMO that would make the world of difference

I am pumped for the Wii out of all the systems.

[GrayFox]

Gee. I must be the only person in the world who finds rumbling controllers to be annoying. This is a good change. Everything else about the PS3, though, is poop.

Rumble is sorta, blah.

But seriously, Metal Gear Solid 4 is gonna cost me at least $560. That sucks so very much. I mean, there's nothing else that's impressing me.

[poe]

To all you naysayers who are certain that Sony is doomed whose only argument is the price, keep in mind that the Atari 2600 launched in 1977 at $199. Adjusted (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/) for inflation, that would be $645.75. For an Atari that only played games; no video playback, no multimedia capabilities, no online anything, etc. Did it sit unsold or did the assload of sales essentially make Atari (until the late 80's/early 90's)?

That said, I'm waiting for a price drop (or two) from any company before I consider buying anything next-gen. Give 'em time to work out the kinks and build up decent libraries anyway...

EDIT: DAMN YOU Jibbajaba for making the exact point I was going to make, only much sooner than I made it, making me look like an ass who doesn't carefully read the entire thread before posting!

[gepeto]

To all you naysayers who are certain that Sony is doomed whose only argument is the price, keep in mind that the Atari 2600 launched in 1977 at $199. Adjusted (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/) for inflation, that would be $645.75. For an Atari that only played games; no video playback, no multimedia capabilities, no online anything, etc. Did it sit unsold or did the assload of sales essentially make Atari (until the late 80's/early 90's)?

That said, I'm waiting for a price drop (or two) from any company before I consider buying anything next-gen. Give 'em time to work out the kinks and build up decent libraries anyway...

EDIT: DAMN YOU Jibbajaba for making the exact point I was going to make, only much sooner than I made it, making me look like an ass who doesn't carefully read the entire thread before posting!

I lived that era and people were after the totally new technology. There was nothing like it at all. The retail price was 249.99 or higher. Only my math teacher had one. Initally it was only the haves that had it. You can't even compare both situations.
When the price dropped people picked it up. It also had the vehicle of the arcades pushing them.

On another topic.

I was just watch the feed and they said the 499.99 ps3 will be missing more than 40 gigs of hard drive. They said it lacks all the bells and whistle of the 599.00 version 1080 etc. That blew me off the chair. If it is true Sony lost there damm mind.

[Anthony1]

They had to (remove the Rumble) Due to the lawsuit they covered it in like the first five minutes of TwiT.



They don't "HAVE" to remove the Rumble just because of the lawsuit. They simply need to swallow their pride and pay Immersion to license the technology. The fact that they don't have rumble is a "CHOICE", not a forced issue. They can still licencse the technology from Immersion like everybody else. The only reason that they don't want to license the technology, is because they are already going to have to pay bucketloads of money to Immersion because they lost the lawsuit, so they don't want to add insult to injury and have to pay Immersion a licensing fee on top of the lawsuit penalty.


Basically, they have to much pride, and they are pissed off about losing the lawsuit, and they are more concerned about their pride, then providing gamers with the best experience possible. You can say what you will about Rumble not being a very big deal, but for FPS, Rumble is definitely a big deal, and it's also a big deal with sports games too.


Sony fanboys are going to spin this as, "I've always hated rumble anyways, I'm glad they got rid of it", but the truth is, that although for certain games Rumble is a waste and sometimes a irritation, for other games, like Call of Duty 2, it's essential. Not having it, is like not having hot fudge on your Sundae. Something is missing.

[poe]

I lived that era and people were after the totally new technology. There was nothing like it at all. The retail price was 249.99 or higher. Only my math teacher had one. Initally it was only the haves that had it. You can't even compare both situations.


Actually, that's almost the perfect comparison, though the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_2600#Launch_and_runaway_success) entry gave me a $199 launch price. It acknowledged a slow start (making it sound like the novelty of video games was slow to catch on in the home; I don't know how accurate that assertion is), but states "By 1979, the 2600 was the best selling Christmas present (and console), mainly because of its exclusive content, and a million were sold that year." It doesn't give historical pricing besides the launch price, and a 1986 "budget" rerelease at $50, but between 1977 and '79, it doesn't sound like the price dropped that much, since Atari was " grossing more than $2 billion in profits in 1980"(Wiki).

In the realm of baseless conjecture, I wouldn't rule out a quick price drop from Sony if initial shipments don't sell through, just to secure Blu-Ray as a home entertainment format.
On the Blu-Ray side of the coin, it's also worth noting that the cheapest HD-DVD player I've seen is a $500 Toshiba, so a $600 PS3 is not uncompetitive for a comparable home theater solution. Especially when you look at it as having a game machine incorporated into the design.

[Zadoc]

I dont know, man. If history has taught us anything...a 5-6 hundred dollar console is gonna be damn hard to sell. Theres a good chance I'll buy it but I dont know many people who have that kind of $$. Especially when the 360 will cost around half that and offer Halo 2. Ouch. I wish Sony would have learned form the PSP. People SAY they want the bells & whistles but when it comes time to open their wallet, theyll tell a different story.

Best example of this would be the 3DO.

Oh yeah, the 3DO. The backwards-compatible successor to the wildly popular and industry dominating 2DO, which was in itself the successor to the revolutionary 1DO that became a household name.

The 3DO is a terrible example.

Yes, but what is a good example is the Saturn.

[gepeto]

I dont know, man. If history has taught us anything...a 5-6 hundred dollar console is gonna be damn hard to sell. Theres a good chance I'll buy it but I dont know many people who have that kind of $$. Especially when the 360 will cost around half that and offer Halo 2. Ouch. I wish Sony would have learned form the PSP. People SAY they want the bells & whistles but when it comes time to open their wallet, theyll tell a different story.

Best example of this would be the 3DO.

Oh yeah, the 3DO. The backwards-compatible successor to the wildly popular and industry dominating 2DO, which was in itself the successor to the revolutionary 1DO that became a household name.

The 3DO is a terrible example.

Yes, but what is a good example is the Saturn.

The example is not that bad. Me and my friends really wanted a 3d0 bad bad bad. The price kept us away. I had to wait until it dropped to 300. All we could do up until that point was window shop and look at the ads.

In retrospect the 3d0 failed but during its lifespan when alone in the dark and return fire came in it had its moment in the sun. By the time the prices were lowered people lost interest.

3d0
neo geo
phillip cdi
psx
were all systems the masses wanted but most initially couldn't afford.

Most common companies do the gillette razor theory.
sell the razors cheap make money on the blades. Imagine gillette releasing a 20.00 razor.

The people will speak to sony the same way they spoke to the psp. One more thing. Please eliminate the hype window (the first 2 months) at launch. We know the jokers and the hardcore like me will buy one of the 3 they ship to the store. It is the morning after the window.

If stores are stocked there will be 600.00 systems on the shelves a week later. Prepare for artificial hype. The same way they are trying to lower ps3 owners expectations at this years e3. Where is the stunning killzone videos and what not?

Is funny we all get played out in so many ways it is not even funny.

Who is sony ps3 target audience people that buy from tweeter or wallmart?

[Snapple]

The PS3 will probably be successful, based solely on loyalty to Sony and to franchises like Final Fantasy.

That doesn't mean I have to buy it though. In fact, the longer I think about it, the more I don't think I can get over the ridiculous pricetag. I won't even think about getting a PS3 until the price drops to at least $200, no matter how long that takes.

Plus, add that to the fact that Sony's conference was really, really lame compared to Nintendo's, I see no reason right now why I should pay the extra money. That could change by launch, but right now Sony is on my bad side.

[suckerpunch5]

Gee. I must be the only person in the world who finds rumbling controllers to be annoying. This is a good change. Everything else about the PS3, though, is poop.

I think you are. Try this. If you haven't played Fatal Frame for the PS2, check it out. The rumble feature makes the game A LOT more scary. Sometimes it is the rumble pak that scares me the most in that game.


EDIT: Oh wait, GrayFox also hates the rumble! So, you two are the only 2 in the world.

[James]

They had to (remove the Rumble) Due to the lawsuit they covered it in like the first five minutes of TwiT.



They don't "HAVE" to remove the Rumble just because of the lawsuit. They simply need to swallow their pride and pay Immersion to license the technology. The fact that they don't have rumble is a "CHOICE", not a forced issue. They can still licencse the technology from Immersion like everybody else. The only reason that they don't want to license the technology, is because they are already going to have to pay bucketloads of money to Immersion because they lost the lawsuit, so they don't want to add insult to injury and have to pay Immersion a licensing fee on top of the lawsuit penalty.


Basically, they have to much pride, and they are pissed off about losing the lawsuit, and they are more concerned about their pride, then providing gamers with the best experience possible. You can say what you will about Rumble not being a very big deal, but for FPS, Rumble is definitely a big deal, and it's also a big deal with sports games too.


Sony fanboys are going to spin this as, "I've always hated rumble anyways, I'm glad they got rid of it", but the truth is, that although for certain games Rumble is a waste and sometimes a irritation, for other games, like Call of Duty 2, it's essential. Not having it, is like not having hot fudge on your Sundae. Something is missing.

Yeah Sony pulled another stupid move here which will inevitably hurt their sales. The thing I don't get though is that the Immersion rumble lawsuit is because of a US patent and therefore only affects Playstation products sold within the US. So they should be able to include rumble support in the console and its games in Europe/Japan and Canada, etc. as the ruling does not apply in those areas. Or they could do what any true market leader would do in this situation and either pay up like everyone else or invent a different form of rumble technology that doesn't infringe on any other companies patents, but hey that's Sony for you and they used to be such a great company at one time.

[Bronty-2]

I'm just speculating here, but I would assume the patents were filed in the other countries as well - meaning that sony may have decided based on the loss in the US that the fight wasn't worth having in the other territories since they would lose..

[Anthony1]

I've had a little more time to reflect on the price of the PS3, and my current take is this......



A general sense of shock over the high price of the PS3 has spread through the internet like wildfire, and even some die hard Sony fanboys are pissed at this news, and thinking about defecting. It's quite shocking to read some of the various message boards out there and see the reaction to this price. Of course the real question is this....Will this super high price be the key factor that could cause Sony to fall from the No.1 spot that they have held since 1996? Initially, I don't think the high price is going to hurt them that bad, at least in terms of the PS3 flying off store shelves. The reality, is that when you take a batch of 2 million PS3's, and you divide that amongst all the various territories that they are launching in, it's very likely that there is going to be slightly less than 1 million PS3's available in the United States in 2006.


There is easily several million gamers in the U.S. that will buy the PS3 the second it's available, even at this high price, so their sales aren't going to be affected in the least... INITIALLY. Also, this is just the "gamers". There are also going to be Home Theater nuts, that will want the PS3, simply because it will be the most cost effective way for them to get their hands on a Blu Ray dvd player. So that's the good news for Sony. The bad news is exactly what's happening right now on message boards all over the internet. A large number of gamers that weren't going to be able to buy the PS3 at launch anyways, have had their perceptions about the PS3 change dramatically. There is definitely a significant percentage of gamers that have now come to this conclusion, "Well, I was pretty excited about the PS3, but with this price, I'm pretty much going to have to just forget about the PS3, and look towards the Wii and the 360". This high price perception that is spreading like wildfire is going to really hurt Sony in the long run. By the time Sony actually has more than enough PS3 systems to meet demand, I'm sure that Sony will be able to drop the price by $100 for each of their units, but the problem is that the perception will already be ingrained into the minds of gamers. At the same time, a huge number of gamers will have already been forced into the arms of Wii or 360 because of the high price and lack of availability, and the lowering of the price by $100 will have virtually no effect for them whatsoever. It could be several years before the price is low enough that the mass consumer can actually seriously ponder purchasing one, and by that time it's going to be too late for Sony.



I'm going to buy a PS3 on day one, because that's the type of gamer I am. but for the most part.......


GAME OVER SONY! HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR VIEW FROM THE NO.3 SPOT!

[Hep038]

EDIT: Oh wait, GrayFox also hates the rumble! So, you two are the only 2 in the world.

Make that 3, I understand some games use it in a good way. But I have never liked it, and never have I once thought " Cool! this game features RUMBLE!" I think there are a lot of people who could careless about rumble than people who love it or hate it. But that is just a guess, just like I am guessing their are more then 3 people in the world that hate the rumble feature. LOL

[Muscelli]

ah, well 600 is a great deal considering what u get for it.. PS3 is gonna have Japan no doubt about that

USA- Maybe, time will tell but i think it will be a close race between ps3 and 360

Europe- no chance ps3 will survive there with 600 euros :eek 2:

[Bronty-2]

Anthony - I agree with your post... but would further point out that sony dropping the price later won't matter anyway... by that time xbox will have been in solid production for a year-and-a-half and will be able to match the cut as they will be way further along their production cost curve. Peter Moore said almost as much recently. And the Wii is going to be so much cheaper period that a $100 sony cut doesn't even change the equation.

I get the sense sony now has the arrogance nintendo used to have... and they are simply trying to ram blu ray down your throat whether you like it or not. Well a big F.U. to that!!! I still haven't played MGS 3, what do I need MGS 4 for? :evil:

[Bronty-2]

ah, well 600 is a great deal considering what u get for it.. PS3 is gonna have Japan no doubt about that

USA- Maybe, time will tell but i think it will be a close race between ps3 and 360

Europe- no chance ps3 will survive there with 600 euros :eek 2:

Seriously, how is 600 a great deal? For a machine you're going to replace in 5 years that has comparable substitutes at a much lower price point? Unless you really want that blu ray player (and I doubt many people do) then the price points SUCKS.

Totally agree with you re europe - they can kiss it goodbye.

[j_factor]

By the time Sony can feasibly do a price cut, 360 will have already had one, if not two. So PS3 will always be the expensive console, unless Sony cuts more than the can really afford -- a strategy employed by Sega with the Saturn, that seriously hurt them financially.

I see Sony probably producing very low numbers at first, so that they can claim to have sold out and everything (like 360 did). But low supply means low unit sales. They're really going to be playing catch-up in terms of market share.

All in all, I really don't see this boding well for Sony.

[Muscelli]

ah, well 600 is a great deal considering what u get for it.. PS3 is gonna have Japan no doubt about that

USA- Maybe, time will tell but i think it will be a close race between ps3 and 360

Europe- no chance ps3 will survive there with 600 euros :eek 2:

Seriously, how is 600 a great deal? For a machine you're going to replace in 5 years that has comparable substitutes at a much lower price point? Unless you really want that blu ray player (and I doubt many people do) then the price points SUCKS.

Totally agree with you re europe - they can kiss it goodbye.

I mean, the blu ray player costs a pretty penny alone, and yeah, I am not too interested in it right now since the one HD tv I have is not that big. I mean, personally, if i were to buy an xbox, id have to get a premium package with the wireless kit which will be another 100 dollars onto the price of the xbox, not to mention xbox live which is 50 dollars a year so for 50 dollars more I get a blu ray drive, as well as a big hard drive to accompany it. This is my personal scenario though, so to me, it seems worth it. Just my personal dilemma.

Sony really effed up in europe.. How much (in us dollars approximately) does a 360 cost there

[hezeuschrist]

ah, well 600 is a great deal considering what u get for it.. PS3 is gonna have Japan no doubt about that

USA- Maybe, time will tell but i think it will be a close race between ps3 and 360

Europe- no chance ps3 will survive there with 600 euros :eek 2:

Seriously, how is 600 a great deal? For a machine you're going to replace in 5 years that has comparable substitutes at a much lower price point? Unless you really want that blu ray player (and I doubt many people do) then the price points SUCKS.

Blu-Ray is the big unknown. Well, we KNOW at this point and at the point the PS3 is launched that a $600 Blu-Ray player is a bargain.

The problem is that Blu-Ray is nowhere near in the position DVD was in at the end of 2000. There will be AV buffs that will jump on the PS3 for the Blu-Ray player, but the masses won't jump on it like they did the PS2 for DVD. The market won't be ready for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD until at earliest, 2010. HD has pretty much no penetration when you put it in the big picture, so that sale isn't there at all.

But there is a lot of time between now and then, the next-gen disc format might be over by November. Not likely, but crazier things have happened. If Blu Ray somehow destroys HD DVD between now and November, you can expect the PS3 to be just as popular as the PS2. Maybe not right off the bat because of the high price, but the bargain appeal will be there in the same sense it was for the PS2 and it'll dominate yet again.

[Anthony1]

I mean, the blu ray player costs a pretty penny alone, and yeah, I am not too interested in it right now since the one HD tv I have is not that big. I mean, personally, if i were to buy an xbox, id have to get a premium package with the wireless kit which will be another 100 dollars onto the price of the xbox, not to mention xbox live which is 50 dollars a year so for 50 dollars more I get a blu ray drive, as well as a big hard drive to accompany it. This is my personal scenario though, so to me, it seems worth it. Just my personal dilemma.




You know, that's a really interesting way to put it. If Sony is smart, they will definitely have to highlight the fact that the 360 wireless adapter is $100. Of course, Microsoft would be pretty dumb to not cut the price in half, or even more prior to the release of the other two systems in November. But, yeah, a Premium with a Wireless adapter is $500, and people don't really think about that.

[hezeuschrist]

I mean, the blu ray player costs a pretty penny alone, and yeah, I am not too interested in it right now since the one HD tv I have is not that big. I mean, personally, if i were to buy an xbox, id have to get a premium package with the wireless kit which will be another 100 dollars onto the price of the xbox, not to mention xbox live which is 50 dollars a year so for 50 dollars more I get a blu ray drive, as well as a big hard drive to accompany it. This is my personal scenario though, so to me, it seems worth it. Just my personal dilemma.




You know, that's a really interesting way to put it. If Sony is smart, they will definitely have to highlight the fact that the 360 wireless adapter is $100. Of course, Microsoft would be pretty dumb to not cut the price in half, or even more prior to the release of the other two systems in November. But, yeah, a Premium with a Wireless adapter is $500, and people don't really think about that.

The difference? Choice. If I buy a 360 core and decide I only need a memory card, I have the choice to upgrade to a hard drive later. If I use a wired connection now, I have the choice to upgrade to WiFi later.

Sony is pretty much saying, "Hey, better get the $600 system just incase something you think you don't want now becomes desireable in the future." I can't buy the $500 PS3 and then opt for the WiFi attachment later. I can't opt for the HDMI output later. I can't even opt for a larger hard drive later, it's internal.

That's what the consumer is going to realize and it's going to be a huge selling point for Microsoft. They give you what the competition can't: choice.

[gepeto]

For those who believe your fan base will support you no matter what. I give you nintendo. During there reign no one could touch them. If you ask most people if nintendo would ever lose their grip 99.9 percent of the masses would say that there is no way they would ever lose top spot. They would point to the fan base , the games metriod punchout etc.

I think alot of young people really dont understand the power nintendo had.
Sony is big but nintendo was gigantic. They had Moms, Dad,teachers,preachers,companies stores at there mercy.

What is sad is your only remembered for your last one basically what have you done for me lately. Nintendos presence is so deep it put out 2 systems that weren't number one and the train still rolls on. Lesser companies folded.

How can sony handled adversity? When they were trying to knock nintendo off the block they were consumer friendly. Anyone remember the 299 press conference. Well see where the power trip takes them.


Now they might be a whipping post but back then no one was whipping or laughing or questioning there decision.

The most that would be said is releasing on cartridge is a little risky but they know what there doing. We all know what happened.

Now with sony's 500.00 & 600.00 price tag people are saying it's risky. I know people and it won't fly. Sony has to eat it now. Has Sony ever released a format that took over the market?

[DonMarco]

the lack of RUMBLE for PS3 controllers!!!!!
Doesn't mean Nyko, Mad Catz or the like won't sell them. Especially if the PS3 is backwards compatible. You'll need to buy PS3 controllers that have the rumble features, right?

[hezeuschrist]

the lack of RUMBLE for PS3 controllers!!!!!
Doesn't mean Nyko, Mad Catz or the like won't sell them. Especially if the PS3 is backwards compatible. You'll need to buy PS3 controllers that have the rumble features, right?

The feature isn't supported at the hardware level, so no PS3 games will have rumble features unless the developers program them in, which they can't.

As for backwards compatibility, they'll likely just release an official Sony brand PlayStation -> USB converter or just tell you to deal without it and use the PS3 controller.

[petewhitley]

PS3 is gonna have Japan no doubt about that

This is a very good point, and one most people are ignoring. Japan's gaming market is dominated (save for the OCCASIONAL "alternative" phenom like Nintendogs) by RPGs and strategy titles. Sony will undoubtedly have all the big players producing their signature titles for the PS3. Nintendo, by the very nature of their hardware, will be hard-pressed to port the same titles without significant sacrifices. Microsoft is still having a difficult time pentrating that market. Thus: Sony rides this generation out to an easy first-place market share in Japan pretty much regardless of the success of the Wii. I'd put money on it.

[FurinkanianFrood]

1. The DS vs. PSP system sales numbers I sited were as I stated JAPAN ONLY. And only when there wasn't a shortage of ds's. And only this year. Despite what Sony apologists will tell you, the gap in Japan is growing, and is not likely to reverse.

2. Look at sales figures for DS softs vs. PSP softs, and it's clear who is winning in Japan.

3. It is relevant to the discussion because if PSP is fighting a losing battle it shows a chink in their marketing armour, a chink in their arrogance. Nintendo may be arrogant as well, but at least they are trying to do something different, which should be applauded.

4. If Sony had decided to make a system that sold for $300, I would have to grudgingly them for breaking the cycle of idiocy whereby game consoles become overpriced "set top boxes".

If they had any sense, they would know that making a powerful, affordable system would guarantee their market position, rather than threaten it. And if they had any balls, they would realize that the 360 has no spine as far as non-gaming features are concerned.

The PS3 comes off as a sad attempt to force blu-ray on people who aren't ready or don't want it. The extra storage is not useful for games, and the storage difference from HD-DVD doesn't provide any significant advantage for movies either.

The story of Sony for the last 20 or so years is mostly:

1. They say: eat our poorly made crap
2. Early adopters and Sony cultists go along with it
3. Early adopters get burned, Sony lovers are blissfully oblivious, the proud few others laugh

The PS and PS2 both overcame this trend, because their competition screwed up royally, forcing developers and gamers to them by default.

Eventually somone will actually stand up to them, and it will go back to normal.

It may not be this time, but $600 makes me wonder. I don't care how good the games are. It can't justify that kind of arrogance with the price point.

[Muscelli]

PS3 is gonna have Japan no doubt about that

This is a very good point, and one most people are ignoring. Japan's gaming market is dominated (save for the OCCASIONAL "alternative" phenom like Nintendogs) by RPGs and strategy titles. Sony will undoubtedly have all the big players producing their signature titles for the PS3. Nintendo, by the very nature of their hardware, will be hard-pressed to port the same titles without significant sacrifices. Microsoft is still having a difficult time pentrating that market. Thus: Sony rides this generation out to an easy first-place market share in Japan pretty much regardless of the success of the Wii. I'd put money on it.

yup, I am pretty much positive America will be the big deciding factor over who will end up on top..

Europe- Has x360, unless theyre inclined to pay roughly $1000(!!) for a ps3

Japan- PS3, wii is sort of a niche market (which nintendo stated is what theyre aiming at) and xbox360 is a joke to them

USA- should be interesting, I dont see wii being a massive hit with our audiences.. 360 has the price advantage, while ps3 has the sony name, and all the jazzy features people just love.. I think it will be a really interesting battle, and we should see some great titles be released.. If the blu-ray format tanks, I really think Microsoft may win over america's market

[FurinkanianFrood]

Yeah, well, in the end, the PS3 will win in Japan because of bizarre Sony worship and the love of crap franchises (like the last several FF games), and the 360 will win elsewhere because of the price point.

Sometimes I think Japanese gadget worship is like something out of an (ostensibly polite, and no worse than our own) parallel universe, and then I remember that people here like overpriced iPods because they are told what is cool by corporations, and then I remember that modern societies are all capitalist inside, and isn't that what really matters.. eh?

Actually, while I'm not exactly leftist, I suspect that South Park was deeply confused about the guy downstairs. He's been happily married to Ayn Rand for years. LOL

I don't think Sony can afford to lower the price any time in the foreseeable future. The PS3 will hemorrhage money badly enough as it is.

Despite all of this, of the three remaining game companies, Nintendo has been the only one making money instead of bleeding for some time. And the more they secure their "niche market", perhaps the more they can laugh at companies with larger market share that toss wads of cash down the toilet?

[GrandAmChandler]

You forget though, Japanese LOVE quirkyness (sp?) as well as the ever so popular Dragon Quest series, which has another sequel coming out for the Wii.

[Bronty-2]

Yep. Personally I don't think it's looked this good for nintendo since the launch of the psx.

[Poofta!]

you guys can complain and bitch all you want, but im glad they ripped off the wii, now i can enjoy motion sensors in games and still have a normal controller and a console with normal games. i didnt buy the 360, and now im not planning to, i was gonna buy my 360 in a week (after finals) now ill just carry over those 400$ to november and add 200 more. im sure i can save up 22 dollars a month ;)

and again, bluray!!! im buying the ps3 as a gaming platform, and it automatically puts me on the cutting edge of visual technology with the new video format. if i were to drop down on a 360, id have to buy the add-on for hddvd, and theres the risk of hddvd failing... after all, sony studios make a LOT of movie, how many movies has Microsoft made lately?

personally, i dont care who thought of something first, its who did it best.

i care about whats best for ME, not company A, B or C.


if you guys bought less loose crappy games that you never play maybe youd have a little more spare cash.

[hydr0x]

if you guys bought less loose crappy games that you never play maybe youd have a little more spare cash.

talk about trolling :eek 2: x_x

[can_dude]

you guys can complain and bitch all you want, but im glad they ripped off the wii, now i can enjoy motion sensors in games and still have a normal controller and a console with normal games. i didnt buy the 360, and now im not planning to, i was gonna buy my 360 in a week (after finals) now ill just carry over those 400$ to november and add 200 more. im sure i can save up 22 dollars a month ;)

and again, bluray!!! im buying the ps3 as a gaming platform, and it automatically puts me on the cutting edge of visual technology with the new video format. if i were to drop down on a 360, id have to buy the add-on for hddvd, and theres the risk of hddvd failing... after all, sony studios make a LOT of movie, how many movies has Microsoft made lately?

personally, i dont care who thought of something first, its who did it best.

i care about whats best for ME, not company A, B or C.


if you guys bought less loose crappy games that you never play maybe youd have a little more spare cash.

Poofta, you really are a sucker (see my previous post on pg 4 of this thread). The Sony remote, which I mentioned in a previous post, is not a rip off of the Wii. It uses six direction tilt functionality, the same as in Kirby Tilt and tumble for Gambe Boy Color. The controls of the Wii-mote and PS3 controller are completely different, and just happen to share tilt functionality (Wii, also has horizontal twisting and height and depth ability, not even touching on the other features). And as for having a "normal" controller. The Wii HAS Gamecube controller ports. If your going for PS3, by all means go for it, but dont support your decision with misinformation. BE AN INFORMED GAMER. That goes for everyone.

[Rev. Link]

personally, i dont care who thought of something first, its who did it best.

Then shouldn't you be getting a Wii? :P

[hezeuschrist]

PS3 is gonna have Japan no doubt about that

This is a very good point, and one most people are ignoring. Japan's gaming market is dominated (save for the OCCASIONAL "alternative" phenom like Nintendogs) by RPGs and strategy titles. Sony will undoubtedly have all the big players producing their signature titles for the PS3. Nintendo, by the very nature of their hardware, will be hard-pressed to port the same titles without significant sacrifices. Microsoft is still having a difficult time pentrating that market. Thus: Sony rides this generation out to an easy first-place market share in Japan pretty much regardless of the success of the Wii. I'd put money on it.

You've also got to take into account that if there is any time to do something radically different, it's now. The Japanese game market has been waning as of late and completely stagnant with the genres you've mentioned. The success of the DS and its quirky titles leads to one conclusion: The Japanese game market is FEENING for something different. It is possible that it's a cultural phenomena that won't last through the end of the decade, but analysts seem to think it's the beginning of a big change in that market.

I definitely see the PS3 making big waves in Japan, but I really think it'll be an even match between Nintendo and Sony. As should be obvious by now, the 360 isn't even a contender in that market.

[Nature Boy]

The first thing I read is this:


Yeah, well, in the end, the PS3 will win in Japan because of bizarre Sony worship and the love of crap franchises ...

And it reminds me why I hate threads like these.

Since I'm here already though I thought I'd chime in with my severe hesitance regarding the prices of this gen though, as it's more upsetting to me than trolls ever will.

Games are like $70 (CAD) each for the 360, and I expect the same for PS3 (Wii I don't know about and aren't really interested in personally). What's up with that?

When I went from my N64 to my PS2 the games were pretty much the same price, a little cheaper even (those carts could get *expensive*)

Eventually I was buying new games for $30. NEW! I've got about 60ish PS2 games, 30ish Gamecube games, and a dozen or so Xbox games thanks to prices being so low.

But this new gen? I'm not even sure I want to invest in *one* console this time around, let alone all three. And even if I do, I can see myself having like 12 games *total* for the gen, like I did when I owned a SNES and had next to no disposable income.

So I wonder how much the new pricing will affect overall sales. I've repeatedly heard this is what they have to do in order to recover the rising costs of game development, but I wonder if they realize that higher prices *can* mean fewer sales, which puts them right back where they are now.

[Poofta!]

you guys can complain and bitch all you want, but im glad they ripped off the wii, now i can enjoy motion sensors in games and still have a normal controller and a console with normal games. i didnt buy the 360, and now im not planning to, i was gonna buy my 360 in a week (after finals) now ill just carry over those 400$ to november and add 200 more. im sure i can save up 22 dollars a month ;)

and again, bluray!!! im buying the ps3 as a gaming platform, and it automatically puts me on the cutting edge of visual technology with the new video format. if i were to drop down on a 360, id have to buy the add-on for hddvd, and theres the risk of hddvd failing... after all, sony studios make a LOT of movie, how many movies has Microsoft made lately?

personally, i dont care who thought of something first, its who did it best.

i care about whats best for ME, not company A, B or C.


if you guys bought less loose crappy games that you never play maybe youd have a little more spare cash.

Poofta, you really are a sucker (see my previous post on pg 4 of this thread). The Sony remote, which I mentioned in a previous post, is not a rip off of the Wii. It uses six direction tilt functionality, the same as in Kirby Tilt and tumble for Gambe Boy Color. The controls of the Wii-mote and PS3 controller are completely different, and just happen to share tilt functionality (Wii, also has horizontal twisting and height and depth ability, not even touching on the other features). And as for having a "normal" controller. The Wii HAS Gamecube controller ports. If your going for PS3, by all means go for it, but dont support your decision with misinformation. BE AN INFORMED GAMER. That goes for everyone.


i didnt read your post, cause by page 4, i began reading the same points over and over and just started skimping. however im well aware that its not the same technology as the Wii. and i most likely WILL get the wii. if you read my post carefully i didnt bash the wii a single time... i bashed you guys for bashing sony of copying the idea (thats a lot of cross bashing going on there lol) i was mostly comparing my buying judgement of ps3 vs xbox360, cause everyones screaming 'omgwtfbbq its too expensive!'.

truth be told i dont know if i want to wave my hands around in the air all the time, and i think the gamecube controller is shit (sorry, just my opinion). i think its small, awkward button placement (not to mention size and color)... just all around bleh. i think i would prefer regular games with a touch of movement as opposed to a whole new different era of gaming. and after watching g4tv last night, warhawk is on the top of my list of games to play this year.

besides, nintendo knows its not gonna shove both ms and sony out of our homes, they are hoping that we buy the wii as a second console, they are making it interesting and cheap enough for there to be little to no debate on whether or someone is gonna buy it. even with the gamecube, as much as ive grown to hate my gamecube over the years, i look around and most people have either a ps2+gc or xbox+gc, almost no one has only a gc. with the wii, nintendo is hoping EVERYONE will *also* have a wii. quite brilliant really.


oh and im not trolling. next time you complain you dont have 600 dollars to spend on a console that doesnt even come out for 4 months, look at how much youve spent on games in the last 4 months. and estimate how much more youll spend in the next 4 months. surely you can trim down on some of that shit and get something youll truly play. even if youre just a collector, collect things that are actually worth collecting, its quality, not quantity, that makes a collection shine. 20 specific good snes games is better than 200 most of which give you leg gravy just by thinking about them.

[petewhitley]

You've also got to take into account that if there is any time to do something radically different, it's now. The Japanese game market has been waning as of late and completely stagnant with the genres you've mentioned. The success of the DS and its quirky titles leads to one conclusion: The Japanese game market is FEENING for something different. It is possible that it's a cultural phenomena that won't last through the end of the decade, but analysts seem to think it's the beginning of a big change in that market.

I definitely see the PS3 making big waves in Japan, but I really think it'll be an even match between Nintendo and Sony. As should be obvious by now, the 360 isn't even a contender in that market.

I'm not going to really make an argument here, but I just want to say I think you're way off in your analysis of the current Japanese gaming market. Quirky titles have always been popular in Japan. Big-name RPGs are DEFINITELY not stagnant right now (in terms of sales) either.

[zerohero]

oh and im not trolling. next time you complain you dont have 600 dollars to spend on a console that doesnt even come out for 4 months, look at how much youve spent on games in the last 4 months. and estimate how much more youll spend in the next 4 months. surely you can trim down on some of that shit and get something youll truly play. even if youre just a collector, collect things that are actually worth collecting, its quality, not quantity, that makes a collection shine. 20 specific good snes games is better than 200 most of which give you leg gravy just by thinking about them.


I agree with this, heck it brings you back to persective actually.

[hezeuschrist]

You've also got to take into account that if there is any time to do something radically different, it's now. The Japanese game market has been waning as of late and completely stagnant with the genres you've mentioned. The success of the DS and its quirky titles leads to one conclusion: The Japanese game market is FEENING for something different. It is possible that it's a cultural phenomena that won't last through the end of the decade, but analysts seem to think it's the beginning of a big change in that market.

I definitely see the PS3 making big waves in Japan, but I really think it'll be an even match between Nintendo and Sony. As should be obvious by now, the 360 isn't even a contender in that market.

I'm not going to really make an argument here, but I just want to say I think you're way off in your analysis of the current Japanese gaming market. Quirky titles have always been popular in Japan. Big-name RPGs are DEFINITELY not stagnant right now (in terms of sales) either.

The whole industry is down, way down from where it was at the height of the PlayStations popularity. I can't find much recent info, but this most recent piece I could find (shedding ANY light on the Japanese market) indicates that in mid 2004 the industry had shrunk to nearly half its size from 1997.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6101475.html?q=japanese game market

Other sources paint 2004 as the "Third year of decline" in the industry, and this quote from a year-end look at Japan indicate the trend is continuing, "Japan saw 1,084 new games in 2005, which sold a combined 55.43 million units. The sales figure is slightly lower than the 58.51 million game units sold in the country back in 2004."

Six of the top 10 selling games in Japan for 2005 reside on the DS as well. And from what I can tell (no clue what Yawaraka Atama Juku for the DS is) there is only one RPG on the top 10 for 2005, and thats Kingdom Hearts II at #9. Undoubtedly though, DQVIII must have been number 1 in 2004.

The writing is on the wall, the Japanese game market is really looking for something new, and the Wii will be right there to take it by storm.

[odyeiop]

oops *post edited* Quotes got all screwed up.. the gist of it being that PS3 may be able to deliver the titles. We won't know for a while though.

[gepeto]

oh and im not trolling. next time you complain you dont have 600 dollars to spend on a console that doesnt even come out for 4 months, look at how much youve spent on games in the last 4 months. and estimate how much more youll spend in the next 4 months. surely you can trim down on some of that shit and get something youll truly play. even if youre just a collector, collect things that are actually worth collecting, its quality, not quantity, that makes a collection shine. 20 specific good snes games is better than 200 most of which give you leg gravy just by thinking about them.


I agree with this, heck it brings you back to persective actually.

I don't agree. People have a right to complain about anything they feel is worth complaining about. A survey was recently done it was on tv this week that said. that said most gamers spend 200.00 dollars a year on games.

I am complaining and its not about not having the money to buy a ps3 because I can. I complain because I want to see these companies do well and the industry grow and because I am a true gamer at heart and I know most people that are in my area just can't afford that much money.

The people that are diligently fiscally conservative and only but quality few games are not getting new systems in the launch window. even though it is good advice there are alot of people that are trying to save and still wont be able to afford it. There are alot of people that will go in to debt when they shouldn't.

I am just looking at the big picture.

[Poofta!]

gepeto. i didnt mean that people shouldnt complain, complain all you want, hell thats what forums are for, i was simply offering a bit of insight on the solution to the people here, who are not the average gamer, and certainly spend much more than 200 dollars on games a year (im sure to most of us its closer to 200 a month).

youre talking about the big picture indeed, and youre right it will keep a lot of people from being able to get a console on launch or at least until price drop. i wasnt addressing these people.

the industry will adjust. if the consumer truly isnt ready to pay premium for game and console, the frequency of consoles will shorten, or price will fall. for now, i anxiously await the ps3 and am really excited to jump head first into this new world.

[can_dude]

Poofta, thank you for your responses. They were informed responses, and that is all im looking for. Im nobody's fanboy, just a fan of gamers who use common sense, fact, and preference to motivate their opinions and thoroughly against "gamers" who jump on bandwagons, make assumptions, and go by hear-say.

[sabre2922]

I get the sense sony now has the arrogance nintendo used to have... and they are simply trying to ram blu ray down your throat whether you like it or not. Well a big F.U. to that!!! :evil:

Agreed

Seeing as I plan on picking up one last new Slimline PS2 in a couple weeks I wont be getting a PS3 until it hits at LEAST $299.00 U.S.

Sony has a big ass overinflated EGO thats about to get popped.

Sure the PS3 will sell but most ppl cant afford to pay $500.00 for a fucking game console, most of us have to eat ,pay bills and taxes ;)

[Ed Oscuro]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55089

I found this interview quite interesting. Among other things, he says that he thinks Nintendo has gotten things "exactly right" but that they're in a different market.

Also, something that looks like shooting down a reason to go for a PS3:

"The end user will not notice any quality difference. Perhaps if you were projecting onto a gi-normous screen you might notice some difference, but also not every HD display has HDMI. So we're providing a choice to the consumer."
View that as you will; I think he's merely saying it's not a reason to discern between units...personally...


It seems like a really insignificant feature but being able to simply slideshow your photos on your tv is actually a really compelling feature of PlayStation 3."
Hmm.


"The PlayStation 3 60 GB version has Memory Stick slots and you can use Memory Stick as a support mechanism between the PSP and PS3."
Okay, this is bugging me. I don't have straight yet what all the differences between units are - and they expect average consumers to make that distinction? What happens when Joe who has a Sony camera and wants to transfer data between his PC or PSP and his PS3 buys the 20 GB model? Joe will be angry...

[Julio III]

Okay, this is bugging me. I don't have straight yet what all the differences between units are - and they expect average consumers to make that distinction? What happens when Joe who has a Sony camera and wants to transfer data between his PC or PSP and his PS3 buys the 20 GB model? Joe will be angry...

Its going to be like going into a shop and buying a PC. Lots of little differences that most people dont understand and will just get confused over.

I don't actually know what the actual differences are in the 360 packs, but I'm thinking its as simple as hard disk + wireless versus no hard disk and wired. Anyone can understand what that means and the hard disk can be explained simply as "you can download lots of things onto it".

[jdc]

Poofta has some good points although it might not apply to everyone.

In preparation for the next gen I took a good look at how much money I've spent on idle, shelf-fodder "shit" over the past few years and decided that I had to modify my spending habits in order to comfortably afford a nice library for this 360 of mine. (I now own a whopping 8 games for it...WOOOT!!!) I had 60 PS2 games that I never even fired up!! And that was my "second" system. I think that the prices will stay a bit higher for a longer duration this gen, so I'm all set to do just the 360 as my "main" console and possibly the Wii as a secondary "toss it a bone every once in a while" system.

There's no room in my wallet to keep decent libraries for both the 360 and the PS3, since the volume of "gotta have" titles for each is too numerou$. And, I really don't want to be looking at a shelf next year that contains 60 never-played titles.

[Darren870]

...

[le geek]

you guys can complain and bitch all you want, but im glad they ripped off the wii, now i can enjoy motion sensors in games and still have a normal controller...

and again, bluray!!! im buying the ps3 as a gaming platform, and it automatically puts me on the cutting edge of visual technology with the new video format...

Enjoy your Betamax, credit card debt and and beautiful yet crappy launch titles! :P


i care about whats best for ME, not company A, B or C.

if you guys bought less loose crappy games that you never play maybe youd have a little more spare cash.

Can't argue there... LOL

But yeah really, get what you like...


Anyway for me it's looking like Wii at or near launch and X360 when HALO 3 comes out. PS3 is too expensive for me and I don't see any games that scream play me yet. (I have yet to finish PSX Metal Gear Solid). But really I am pissed at Sony. The PS2 has been a great little machine and really the only choice if you like Japanese style RPGs. Will the 360 have Japanese support ever? I seriously doubt the PS3 will be better than the 360, but it's that lack of support that makes 360 vs. PS3 a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of proposition.

So it's more the lower price and not being able to decide about X360 vs. PS3 that points me to Wii...

Cheers,
Ben

[Oobgarm]

PS3 stunned me at the show. They took games that I enjoy and made them look really good while keeping the level of play I'm accustomed to. Exactly what I expected for launch games.

But, the need for HD visuals and the kinda high price tag mean I'm going to sit out until the price eases off a bit. It'll mark the first time I've not adopted a system I want at launch since I got the original NES.

But honestly, I tire of all the 'they ripped this off' and that crap. The big three companies borrow ideas from each other, take the borrowed idea and implement it in their own way. All businesses work that way.

[le geek]

As an amusing aside, the Atari VCS was $300 when it launched, which is over $900 in 2005 dollars.

<Buzzer!>

2600 was $200 on release putting it around $650 in 2006 dollars.

http://curmudgeongamer.com/

But your point is pretty much the same. BTW the above link has console prices both actual AND adjusted for inflation.


Either way the point is that the price of the PS3 is noticably higher than the competition. And Sony can talk about Cell processors all they want, the PS3 does not seem to be noticably more powerful than the X360. Sony has 1 1/2 half things going for it...

1) Strong Japanese support - if you like JRPGS or other Japanese style games, you may need to bite the bullet to play the games you want to play.

1.5) If you want Hi Def DVDs it comes with Blue Ray. But historically Sony has never won a propriety format war. So if HD-DVD "wins" you've got another Betamax/MiniDisc/UMD on your hands. Risky but could pay off...

All this could change with time. Blue Ray could become the defacto High Def DVD standard. HDTVs could come down in price. Xbox360 could get more support in Japan since the PS3 price was revealed (I can see it getting a little more, but who knows). Killzone 2 could come out when HALO3 debuts and be everything it promised to be (I'm betting NO on this one). PS3 graphics could make a discerning jump to be noticably better than X360 titles, once programmers get to know the console better. Sony could get the price down on the PS3 so it's no longer an issue. But right now it's the odd man out...

Personally the only games that looks "worth it" on PS3 right now are VF5 and MGS4. And I have yet to beat MGS on PSX.

Unless Sony loses its "you'll eat it and you'll like it" attitude, I see a lot of PS3's collecting dust on shelves come March after the hardcore have picked up theirs. And this sucks, because the PS2 is THE console to have this gen. So I hope that either Sony cleans up their act or some developers jump ship to X360 and/or Wii. Sadly, I see neither happening.

Prove me wrong Springfield! :P

Cheers,
Ben