View Full Version : 32X power displayed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZktLH_iCyA
Don't know if this is a repost, but freaking sega, why'd you drop the ball on this thing..
Suddenly I have more respect for that little add-on.
CosmicMonkey
05-08-2006, 03:56 PM
X_x Um, blimey!
I didn't realise the 32X could do things like that. Very impressive. Now why wasn't that power used?
Sweater Fish Deluxe
05-08-2006, 04:15 PM
There were games released that used most of the stuff seen in that demo. Not much using textures, but they look horrible even in the demo. Metal Head uses textures, though, and I think Darxide does, too. I don't think any games used the fake lens flare effect, but that's not really anything impressive anyway since I assume it's being done in software.
The 32X didn't need more games using more impressive hardware tricks, it needed more games that were fun to play.
I like how the last two minutes of that video are just the VHS tape running a blank screen and then ending. Did the guy encoding it fall asleep or something?
...word is bondage...
c0ldb33r
05-08-2006, 04:16 PM
Wow, it looks like a tech demo for the Saturn.
I'm impressed :)
fishsandwich
05-08-2006, 04:34 PM
That video has been floating around for a while now but it's still great to see it again. The 32x had a lot more potential than we ever saw... this video was an *early* tech display. Given a few years, the 32x might have really displayed some impressive power (*early* Saturn/PSone?) and pushed some of that fog back. That segment with the gray hallways looks a bit like the 32x X-Men proto. The last section in the desert with the buildings was eventually ported over to the Saturn in the form of A.M.O.K.
Good stuff, man, good stuff!
:D
idrougge
05-08-2006, 05:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZktLH_iCyA
Don't know if this is a repost, but freaking sega, why'd you drop the ball on this thing..
Yes, I posted a link to the video (without Youtube) in the "Underutilisation of the SNES" thread two days ago. ;-9
Slate
05-08-2006, 10:47 PM
I'd have been more impressed if the video wasn't only of the TV screen. Sure, the 32x may have been able to do that, but i didn't see the 32x this demo was running on, if there was a 32x it was running on, considering the last minute or so of the video.
I'd have been more impressed if the video wasn't only of the TV screen. Sure, the 32x may have been able to do that, but i didn't see the 32x this demo was running on, if there was a 32x it was running on, considering the last minute or so of the video.
I don't get this...
Why would someone waste their time producing somthing like this just so you can think its true, why bother fabricating a lie and go though all this trouble.
I'll never understand the thought process of someone who just does not think anything is true, and that the whole world is some massive conspiracy.
That's definitely the 32X (I have that video on my site, without the 2 minutes or so of black screen). You need to remember that this was the 32X with most features turned on, doing simple things. Had there been sprites and other stuff going on, it probably wouldn't have looked as good. Moreover, the 32X had immense untapped potential, compared to what we saw, due to its life span being cut so short. Had it been allowed to stay alive for a few years, we would have seen some great stuff. Heck, Darxide has more features turned on and is prettier than a lot of the 1st year Saturn stuff that was released around the same time.
Ponyone
05-09-2006, 02:21 AM
I like how the second to last (or was it last?) demo had the word Lemon at the beginning.
Sega knew even then.
robotriot
05-09-2006, 03:52 AM
Old news:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61498
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37510
c2000
05-09-2006, 05:02 PM
That segment with the gray hallways looks a bit like the 32x X-Men proto.
It sure does. X-men certainly was one the best looking games I ever saw done on 32X hardware. Some games using 'more advanced' effects like that were in development (heavy machinery, virtual hampster, scottish open golf and a LOT of games that ended up on the Saturn).
The early 'track' bit with the SH2 tag looks better than Race Drivin on the Saturn! (which isn't hard, but still)
The textured & gouraud shading bit always reminds me of 'Ghen War' on the Saturn.
Stuff like Magic carpet and Descent could (and should) have been released as they would've worked quite a threat.
christhegamer
05-09-2006, 05:19 PM
wow, that was pretty cool! wonder if lance has one...
Slate
05-09-2006, 06:19 PM
I'd have been more impressed if the video wasn't only of the TV screen. Sure, the 32x may have been able to do that, but i didn't see the 32x this demo was running on, if there was a 32x it was running on, considering the last minute or so of the video.
I don't get this...
Why would someone waste their time producing somthing like this just so you can think its true, why bother fabricating a lie and go though all this trouble.
Some people just don't have anything better to do, look at all of the guides to games on the internet..
Mattiekrome
05-09-2006, 08:20 PM
Nice vid, now if I could just get that song out of my head
Old news:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61498
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37510
Thanks for the tip hero, I fiqured it was. +1 for you though 8-)
rbudrick
05-10-2006, 09:45 AM
Pretty impressive! That fog was so CLOSE, though! Reminds me of any game where you are in the dark and need to use a flashlight and only the immediate few steps in front of you are visible.
-Rob
The Shawn
05-10-2006, 12:02 PM
I'm surprised, given the amount of programers making new games and prototypes for the old systems like the 2600 and Even for the Sega CD, that someone hasn't been unlocking the full potential for the 32X. And making new games accordingly. :-P
fishsandwich
05-10-2006, 12:51 PM
I'm surprised, given the amount of programers making new games and prototypes for the old systems like the 2600 and Even for the Sega CD, that someone hasn't been unlocking the full potential for the 32X. And making new games accordingly. :-P
I'm FACINATED with the possibility of a CD-based game that would fully utilize the 32x hardware, the Genny processors, the extra 16-bit CPU in the Sega CD, AND the special scaling/rotation chip in the Sega CD. Would that even be possible? Are all the functions of the 32x even available to a CD-based game? I don't see why not, but I'm no hardware expert. None of the 32xCD games push the 32x hardwrae to any extent whatsoever. A game that utilized ALL those processors might be able to duplicate (at least to some extent) Saturn and PSone games. It sounds like a programming nightmare, though. The two CPU's from the 32x, the two CPU's from the Genny and Sega CD, the extra processors from the Genny and Sega CD... you get the picture. That sounds like some damned difficult and tricky programming.
A 32xCD format would certainly be the cheapest way to produce a new game, but how many active enthusiasts actually own a 32x AND a Sega CD?
That being said, I'd buy any and all homebrew 32x games in a heartbeat, regardless of the format (or even the cost?)
lordnikon
05-10-2006, 01:00 PM
The one thing I always thought the 32X needed is not more 3D intensive games, but more 2D intensive games. In short, the 32X needed some:
S
N
K
Seriously. Just imagine Samurai Shodown II on the 32X. They WERE releasing games on the SNES, Genesis, and Sega-CD so I see no reason why they couldn't just bring a wave of titles over on the 32X.
It would have been a match made in heaven. They could have done some 32X-CD releases too. Man that would have been great.
The Shawn
05-10-2006, 01:03 PM
I don't know but after this post I'm doing a search and see if bye chance someone has indeed already made some new games for it.Prob. not though as I am sure someone would have already posted about it. Well actually I never even new that people were making new Atari carts until about a year ago, same with the Sega CD. I don't think however that they will have to use the CD chips to access the 32X directly, would they?
I really don't know as I'm not that adept with modding and such.
Kevincal
05-10-2006, 01:10 PM
I didn't read through this entire topic, but I believe I know the reason no released 32X games looked this good. The demo was created with the entire focus on the graphics. Therefore, the programmer(s) could focus the 32X's entire power on graphics alone, leaving out all sound and A.I. Add in sound and A.I. and you have a lot less space for graphical processing power, on cartridge especially.
Sosage
05-10-2006, 02:18 PM
The one thing I always thought the 32X needed is not more 3D intensive games, but more 2D intensive games. In short, the 32X needed some:
S
N
K
...or Capcom. I've heard the rumor that a Super Street Fighter II Turbo 32X cart was in the pipeline (how far it got from just being on paper...who knows?).
As for the 3D presentation: it is cool, but it just sort of adds to the 32X's legacy of "coulda, shoulda, woulda" (actually...I'd go so far as to say Sega's legacy). I have a special place in my heart for it, but it is just another example of how horribly timed the entire thing was. I wonder what the time difference was between this video being shown off to developers and Saturn dev kits being shipped out?
FantasiaWHT
05-10-2006, 02:38 PM
Really nifty to watch!
Rabid Peanut-Butter
05-10-2006, 10:11 PM
I'm surprised, given the amount of programers making new games and prototypes for the old systems like the 2600 and Even for the Sega CD, that someone hasn't been unlocking the full potential for the 32X. And making new games accordingly. :-P
I'm FACINATED with the possibility of a CD-based game that would fully utilize the 32x hardware, the Genny processors, the extra 16-bit CPU in the Sega CD, AND the special scaling/rotation chip in the Sega CD. Would that even be possible? Are all the functions of the 32x even available to a CD-based game? I don't see why not, but I'm no hardware expert. None of the 32xCD games push the 32x hardwrae to any extent whatsoever. A game that utilized ALL those processors might be able to duplicate (at least to some extent) Saturn and PSone games. It sounds like a programming nightmare, though. The two CPU's from the 32x, the two CPU's from the Genny and Sega CD, the extra processors from the Genny and Sega CD... you get the picture. That sounds like some damned difficult and tricky programming.
A 32xCD format would certainly be the cheapest way to produce a new game, but how many active enthusiasts actually own a 32x AND a Sega CD?
That being said, I'd buy any and all homebrew 32x games in a heartbeat, regardless of the format (or even the cost?)
I feel the same way. I'd love to see the possible potential realized with a 32x Sega CD combo. I'd assume that most people with Sega CDs probably have a 32X as well since they're dirt cheap. As for why more people didn't take advantage of it, I'd assume that timing became an issue between all of the processors. After all, all of the current 32X CD games are FMV games and pretty much just stream data most of the time.
rbudrick
05-11-2006, 10:17 AM
Seriously. Just imagine Samurai Shodown II on the 32X. They WERE releasing games on the SNES, Genesis, and Sega-CD so I see no reason why they couldn't just bring a wave of titles over on the 32X.
It would have been a match made in heaven. They could have done some 32X-CD releases too. Man that would have been great.
True!! Considering the Genny+CD+32x combo was way more powerful than a Neo Geo, Neo ports could have been wonderful, and true to the pixel.
-Rob
fishsandwich
05-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Seriously. Just imagine Samurai Shodown II on the 32X. They WERE releasing games on the SNES, Genesis, and Sega-CD so I see no reason why they couldn't just bring a wave of titles over on the 32X.
It would have been a match made in heaven. They could have done some 32X-CD releases too. Man that would have been great.
True!! Considering the Genny+CD+32x combo was way more powerful than a Neo Geo, Neo ports could have been wonderful, and true to the pixel.
-Rob
I'd love to agree with you, but there's still the issue of memory to deal with. There's no doubt the 32x is more powerful than the Neo-Geo and the Genny/Sega CD is just extra icing (more than icing, really... the Neo Geo doesn't have the Sega CD's scaling & rotation chip) but the Neo has one distinct advantage over several seemingly better consoles... lots of memory!
Some of those Neo-Geo carts are over 500 megs. No 32x carts were even a tenth that size and the Sega CD has a limited amount of RAM to work with. A game could be thousands of megs in size but only a small part of it could be used for actual gameplay given the limitations of the system's RAM.
Then again, I may not know what the hell I'm talking about. I once asked a group of Neo-Geo owners if the Sega CD/Genny combo was more powerful than the Neo Geo. They grudgingly conceded that it was... to a point. The Sega was more powerful hardware with scaling, rotation, and basic polygon manipulation and could do certain things that the Neo couldn't BUT that the limited amount of RAM in the Sega (and the smaller color palete) meant that the Sega CD would never be able to faithfully duplicate a big Neo Geo cart. Makes sense to me.
I'd have liked to see the 32xCD give Virtua Fighter 2 a try or maybe even Daytona USA... it was rumored to be under consideration.
AFGiant
05-12-2006, 12:16 AM
Neat Vid!
I've got a 32X, and a third party cable, and one loose Virtua Racing (I think) cart that I found at an EBGames once. I've never been able to successfully get it all to work :/
I'll put more effort into it if I happen across more games.
chaoticjelly
05-12-2006, 11:05 AM
Neat Vid!
I've got a 32X, and a third party cable, and one loose Virtua Racing (I think) cart that I found at an EBGames once. I've never been able to successfully get it all to work :/
I'll put more effort into it if I happen across more games.
Seems like your missing a power supply?
It wont work if you just put it in the cart slot, it needs power..
rbudrick
05-12-2006, 01:33 PM
I'd love to agree with you, but there's still the issue of memory to deal with. There's no doubt the 32x is more powerful than the Neo-Geo and the Genny/Sega CD is just extra icing (more than icing, really... the Neo Geo doesn't have the Sega CD's scaling & rotation chip) but the Neo has one distinct advantage over several seemingly better consoles... lots of memory!
Some of those Neo-Geo carts are over 500 megs. No 32x carts were even a tenth that size and the Sega CD has a limited amount of RAM to work with. A game could be thousands of megs in size but only a small part of it could be used for actual gameplay given the limitations of the system's RAM.
Then again, I may not know what the hell I'm talking about. I once asked a group of Neo-Geo owners if the Sega CD/Genny combo was more powerful than the Neo Geo. They grudgingly conceded that it was... to a point. The Sega was more powerful hardware with scaling, rotation, and basic polygon manipulation and could do certain things that the Neo couldn't BUT that the limited amount of RAM in the Sega (and the smaller color palete) meant that the Sega CD would never be able to faithfully duplicate a big Neo Geo cart. Makes sense to me.
I'd have liked to see the 32xCD give Virtua Fighter 2 a try or maybe even Daytona USA... it was rumored to be under consideration.
Didn't the SCD have a RAM cart? And using a 32Xcd, the size factor isn't an issue. On top of this, if it were a 32X cart, ram can always be added to the cart itself. Also, 500Mb=62.5MB, which a CD can hold more than ten times that. Of course, the Ne did come out with a CD rom attachment, but they were mostly cart converts.
On top of this, I believe the Neo's large cart size, memory-wise, was due to sloppy programming. Some of those games definitely did not need to be that big, and on many other game systems programmers had to be very smart to use every line of code as efficiently as possible. I think the Neo programmers said "screw it, we've got the space." Of course, I've never seen Neo code before, so I can't say for sure, but it sure makes a lot of sense looking at some of the games that didn't really seem that taxing memory wise (some games just didn't have that much depth to warrant it).
-Rob
fishsandwich
05-12-2006, 02:22 PM
I'd love to agree with you, but there's still the issue of memory to deal with. There's no doubt the 32x is more powerful than the Neo-Geo and the Genny/Sega CD is just extra icing (more than icing, really... the Neo Geo doesn't have the Sega CD's scaling & rotation chip) but the Neo has one distinct advantage over several seemingly better consoles... lots of memory!
Some of those Neo-Geo carts are over 500 megs. No 32x carts were even a tenth that size and the Sega CD has a limited amount of RAM to work with. A game could be thousands of megs in size but only a small part of it could be used for actual gameplay given the limitations of the system's RAM.
Then again, I may not know what the hell I'm talking about. I once asked a group of Neo-Geo owners if the Sega CD/Genny combo was more powerful than the Neo Geo. They grudgingly conceded that it was... to a point. The Sega was more powerful hardware with scaling, rotation, and basic polygon manipulation and could do certain things that the Neo couldn't BUT that the limited amount of RAM in the Sega (and the smaller color palete) meant that the Sega CD would never be able to faithfully duplicate a big Neo Geo cart. Makes sense to me.
I'd have liked to see the 32xCD give Virtua Fighter 2 a try or maybe even Daytona USA... it was rumored to be under consideration.
Didn't the SCD have a RAM cart? And using a 32Xcd, the size factor isn't an issue. On top of this, if it were a 32X cart, ram can always be added to the cart itself. Also, 500Mb=62.5MB, which a CD can hold more than ten times that. Of course, the Ne did come out with a CD rom attachment, but they were mostly cart converts.
On top of this, I believe the Neo's large cart size, memory-wise, was due to sloppy programming. Some of those games definitely did not need to be that big, and on many other game systems programmers had to be very smart to use every line of code as efficiently as possible. I think the Neo programmers said "screw it, we've got the space." Of course, I've never seen Neo code before, so I can't say for sure, but it sure makes a lot of sense looking at some of the games that didn't really seem that taxing memory wise (some games just didn't have that much depth to warrant it).
-Rob
The RAM cart for the Sega CD was only for *game saves* (unlike the RAM cart for the SATURN that could be used for gameplay like in X-Men vs Street Fighter, Dungeons & Dragons Collections, etc.)
It doesn't matter how much data a CD can hold if the console can't access it all at the same time. 2-D fighting games are very memory-intensive with all the various animations that must be held in the system RAM for immediate access. Even if you never see 9/10's of those animations, they still have to be loaded into the system RAM.
Have you played the Sega CD version of Fatal Fury Special? How about the original Mortal Kombat? Both are missing lots of frames of animation and MK pauses regularly to load more data.
The Neo Geo CD has a huge amount of RAM (something like 56 Mbit) and can take over a minute to load a level for a fighting game. And it still might be missing frames of animation.
Sega CD Specs...
RAM:
* 6 Mbit Main RAM
* 512 Kbit PCM Waveform Memory
* 128 Kbit CD-ROM data cache memory
* 64 Kbit Internal Backup RAM
Even the much faster PSone and its 2 megs of RAM couldn't do decent ports of many Neo Geo games. The vaulted Saturn had to resort to the RAM cart for the King of Fighters games and they STILL aren't arcade-perfect.
X-Men vs Street Fighter for the PSone completely ditched the double-team option so popular in the arcade version... the RAM couldn't hold the information for four characters at once. The Saturn could do it but it was working with over 6 megs with its internal memory combined with the required RAM cart and a few animations were still chopped.
The character Shang Tsung in Mortal Kombat can change into any (almost?) character in the game. The PSone and Saturn ports of MK3 freeze the action when you morph into another character. The systems have to load the new character's animations from the CD... and then re-load Shang's animations when the timer runs out. The Genesis, SNES, and N64 versions of the various MK games don't have the loading problems but they have fewer frames of animation than the originals, plus the graphics from the MK games aren't nearly as detailed as those in Last Blade 2 or Mark of the Wolves.
My point is that those huge carts (no matter how sloppy the programming) give the Neo Geo a big advantage over seemingly more powerful consoles when it comes to the 2-D fighting genre. The Neo Geo can't do polygons and falls way behind the SNES and Sega CD in many hardware-related respects but it can do excellent and fluid 2-D with its huge carts. It wasn't until the Dreamcast that Neo Geo games were ported correctly... and some purists argue that the DC games STILL aren't arcade-perfect.
ReaXan
05-12-2006, 11:36 PM
its too bad Sega starts a huge project then abandons it for the Saturn.I mean the 32X could have been great
alexkidd2000
05-13-2006, 05:53 AM
Wow I thought I was the only freak who dreamed of a crazy 32X/Sega CD/RAM cart combo game. If I was a genious and could make games on my own I would make some crazy awesome RPG that can only be played with the above combo of parts, using its combined full potential....
Sweater Fish Deluxe
05-13-2006, 05:54 PM
its too bad Sega starts a huge project then abandons it for the Saturn.I mean the 32X could have been great
Not as great as the Saturn was and positivile not as greaqt as the Saturn *COULD HAVE* been.
I guess I still don't see what's so impressive about the effects used in this demo. Play stuff like Metal Head, Shadow Squadron or Virtua Fighter and you'll see the same stuff. If we're only talking about visuals, I think Kolibri looks much better than any of it.
Wow I thought I was the only freak who dreamed of a crazy 32X/Sega CD/RAM cart combo game. If I was a genious and could make games on my own I would make some crazy awesome RPG that can only be played with the above combo of parts, using its combined full potential....
The Sega CD "RAM cart" is actually just a backup cartridge for storing extra save games, it doesn't give the system extra RAM for loading gamedata.
What I'd like to see some homebrewer do is access the SVP-1 chip in the Genesis version of Virtua Racing through a Sega CD game as is supposed to be possible. The results might not be as impressive as tapping the 32X (one SH-1 compared to two SH2+sundry co-chips), but it would be such an interesting feat.
...word is bondage...
Ninga64
05-13-2006, 08:02 PM
X_x Um, blimey!
I didn't realise the 32X could do things like that. Very impressive. Now why wasn't that power used?Becuse the Saturn was being made, more people whatid to work on the Saturn then the 32X.
zerohero
05-13-2006, 09:47 PM
I still think the SNES had un tapped power, heck we even had a long thread about it a while back.
shoes23
05-13-2006, 10:32 PM
Cool video. At times I could swear that I was watching an unrealeased version of Terminal Velocity. Some of the textures they used for the terrain and the flyby really reminds me of Terminal Velocity.
/runs off and looks for shareware copy of Terminal Velocity
Mr Mort
05-14-2006, 04:23 AM
Yeah, the 32X was definately Sega's "bastard child", sad, as the console really had the potential to du much, much, more. As someone stated earlier. If someone really wanted to, they could do awesome things using the SH2's the Genesis, and the Sega CD's to their fullest simultaneously. I was excited when a Castlevania game was announced, and elated when Super Street Fighter II Turbo was announced.
I alwasy thought the 32X could do a very respectable port of Street Fighter Alpha 3, although it would no doubt be missing some animation.
Too bad the 32X died so quickly. At least the Saturn delivered on some great games, especially if you're willing to import.