Sony= still 2-D haters

[sabre2922]

http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

SNK Playmore USA president Ben Herman mentioned the company's future plans:

"Sony has rejected a number of their 2D projects for PS2, because they do not correspond to the graphic standard"

Shadows of PSX ? umm yea, fucking Sony and their anti 2-D BULLSHIT.


Yet again playing catchup with Nintendo:

"RUMOR: Game Labo reported that Sony is working on a successor of PSP, which will have touch screen capabilities."

the more things change and all that :roll:

[Fighter17]

http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

SNK Playmore USA president Ben Herman mentioned the company's future plans:

"Sony has rejected a number of their 2D projects for PS2, because they do not correspond to the graphic standard"

Shadows of PSX ? umm yea, fucking Sony and their anti 2-D BULLSHIT.


Yet again playing catchup with Nintendo:

"RUMOR: Game Labo reported that Sony is working on a successor of PSP, which will have touch screen capabilities."

the more things change and all that :roll:

It's SCEA who hates 2D games, not SCE of Japan (you can release 2D games in Japan very quickly on the PS2).

[sabre2922]

http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

SNK Playmore USA president Ben Herman mentioned the company's future plans:

"Sony has rejected a number of their 2D projects for PS2, because they do not correspond to the graphic standard"

Shadows of PSX ? umm yea, fucking Sony and their anti 2-D BULLSHIT.


Yet again playing catchup with Nintendo:

"RUMOR: Game Labo reported that Sony is working on a successor of PSP, which will have touch screen capabilities."

the more things change and all that :roll:

It's SCEA who hates 2D games, not SCE of Japan (you can release 2D games in Japan very quickly on the PS2).

hmm ill give u that

OK so its mostly SCEA who are the 2-D haters its still the same BULLSHIT they pulled with the PSone all over again and it affects LOTS of gamers here in America that still enjoy a good 2-D fighter or shooter along with all the fancy 3-D stuff.

[odyeiop]

It's SCEA who hates 2D games, not SCE of Japan (you can release 2D games in Japan very quickly on the PS2).
And you are from America =D

Personally I don't really care.. because to me, that just means that NoA will get lots of Juicy SNK 2d games (hopefully) =)

[Fighter17]

And you are from America =D

Ture, but in SCEA's eyes I'm not their customer. ;)

Their customers are people who don't give a shit about gameplay and all of them are an bunch of graphics hores. Don't forget that they'll love the same shit over and over as long you put 50 Cent on the cover. @_@

[Xexyz]

SCEA and their policies... Yes it's sad, and that's why I salute them with a big F.U. while I play me some DoDonPachi: Dai-OuJou and ESPGaluda on my NTSC-J PS2.

And SNK support looks bright on the Wii. Having a Metal Slug collection come out at or near launch is quite exciting to me so long as they include a classic way to play the game (I'm highly confident that the Wiimote sensor control Playmore is implementing will suck, because this is Playmore we're talking about...).

[Fighter17]

SCEA and their policies... Yes it's sad, and that's why I salute them with a big F.U. while I play me some DoDonPachi: Dai-OuJou and ESPGaluda on my NTSC-J PS2.

I herd that Agetec was trying to release Dai-OuJou to the states, but was denined by SCEA. :angry:

Also a publisher wanted to bring DoDonPachi for the PS1 to the states, well SCEA saids no.

SCEA: "No to 2D games, we want to brainwash little kiddys so they can buy the same stuff over and over. That's how we rich people become rich, by giving people crap with upgrades. But if the kiddys play 2D games, then they won't be brainwash anymore!"

Also look what Koji Igarashi has to say about the Wii (go to the same link and look at top of the SNK part):

"- Castlevania producer Koji Igarashi said that Castlevania does not fit with Wii, because the Wii market is for people who want to have new experience, these type of people do not have time to play lengthy games like Castlevania; also he does not have a good idea to make use of the Wii controller in the game."

OH REALLY?

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.
Granted, there aren't a lot of 2D games, but there are some. SNK has KoF and Metal Slug games, there are also other fighting games, MvC2, Guilty Gear, and even Alien Hominid was released, and they plan on releasing another 2D game at somepoint.

So, one specific example?

[Richter]

Also a publisher wanted to bring DoDonPachi for the PS1 to the states, well SCEA saids no.

SCEA: "No to 2D games, we want to brainwash little kiddys so they can buy the same stuff over and over. That's how we rich people become rich, by giving people crap with upgrades. But if the kiddys play 2D games, then they won't be brainwash anymore!"

Also look what Koji Igarashi has to say about the Wii (go to the same link and look at top of the SNK part):

"- Castlevania producer Koji Igarashi said that Castlevania does not fit with Wii, because the Wii market is for people who want to have new experience, these type of people do not have time to play lengthy games like Castlevania; also he does not have a good idea to make use of the Wii controller in the game."

OH REALLY?lame excuse

whip smacking via the Wiimote
sword slashing
magic wand moving

[n8littlefield]

I can't seem to find the quote, but I rememeber reading somewhere that SNK had indicated they chose the Wii over the PS3 because Sony has a policy in place for the new system that everything must run at high-resolution natively, which would eliminate most of SNK's back catalog. So while with the PS2 Sony allowed some 2D stuff - usually requiring it to be in a compilation - it seems like the PS3 will be even more closed off to classic gaming.

[Kid Ice]

What was the last 2D console game that was a big hit?

How many people would have bought DoDonPachi? 12?

[Poofta!]

What was the last 2D console game that was a big hit?

How many people would have bought DoDonPachi? 12?

viewtiful joe was pretty popular, but youre absolutely correct, i dont see the big fuss about lack of 2d games.

[Daria]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.
Granted, there aren't a lot of 2D games, but there are some. SNK has KoF and Metal Slug games, there are also other fighting games, MvC2, Guilty Gear, and even Alien Hominid was released, and they plan on releasing another 2D game at somepoint.

So, one specific example?

Goemon? Phantasy Star Collection?

It's not that SCEA won't release them at all but they do put tight restrictions on how they want them to be released.

[icycalm]

Have you read this somewhere?

[jajaja]

Today everything shall be in 3d. You hardly find any 2d games for PC and newer consoles. Unfortunatly 3d have taken over a long time ago. I guess 2d isnt selling that well for these systems.

Im also so tired of hearing "sony copy nintendo" all the time. Nintendo wasnt the first with Touch Screen, they dont have patent on it. If a idea is working great why shouldnt other be allowed to make it? If it was like this you would only have 1 manufacture of 1 car, 1 tv, 1 console, 1 OS etc etc.

[playgeneration]

"Im also so tired of hearing "sony copy nintendo" all the time"

well no one would need to say it if they didnt copy ideas all the time instead of innovating themselves. Ive seen a video of a wario ware rip off game for psp, what next a psp platmormer starring two plumbing brothers?
Whats new in the ps3? - an xbox live copy, and a worse wii controller yet its more expensive than the 360 and wii combined

[Frica89]

Whats new in the ps3? - an xbox live copy, and a worse wii controller yet its more expensive than the 360 and wii combined
Yeah, I no what u mean...$600??? FUCK YOU SONY!!!

[Frica89]

Whats new in the ps3? - an xbox live copy, and a worse wii controller yet its more expensive than the 360 and wii combined
Yeah, I no what u mean...$600??? FUCK YOU SONY!!!

[lordnikon]

Here is a little more food for thought everyone. Yes I agree that Sony Computer Entertainment of America is biased towards 2D Game releases. They have policies, red tape and stupid agenda's which fuel a public stereotype that somehow 2D graphics and sprite artwork is "obsolete" or inferior.

This is counter productive, and shafts people like myself who love shmups, side scrolling platformers and isometric 2D action games.

However, here is some extra food for thought. The Playstation 2 cannot render games in low-resolution, and the developers have 2 choices. They can either upscale the graphics with scan lines to a higher resolution, or use a "fake low-res" output. Here are the problems. The sprites when upscaled look HORRIBLY pixelated. A good example of this is Capcom Fighting Evolution. As far as "fake low-res", this results in sprite flicker because the lines to not match up with those on the TV. So it splits the difference, and then results in flicker.

The NTSC-U/C release of Metal Slug 4 & 5 on the PS2 suffers from this.

SNK Playmore is a bad example to use here because they are lazy. I could see why sony would reject their ports because they just slap together some BS emulator and fake low res.

I have read certain memo's which discourage 2D releases on the PS2 and because of the PS2's unfriendly nature towards 2D graphics, this might be why SCEA acts like this.

Some games are getting released that are 2D.

For instance Capcom Classics Collection Volume 2 was just announced on May 10th, and will feature over 20 2D games. Before this CCC vol 1 was released, and then there was Taito Legends vol 1 as well.

So this situation is slightly more complicated, and isn't just Sony sitting around being haters. I agree that there is some stereotyping going on here, but at the sametime there could be some other underlying technical issues which have caused SCEA to have a policy against 2D game releases.

[jajaja]

Whats new in the ps3? - an xbox live copy, and a worse wii controller yet its more expensive than the 360 and wii combined
Yeah, I no what u mean...$600??? FUCK YOU SONY!!!

Dont know if this was ironic, but i answer anyway. A standalone Blu-Ray player will cost about $600, if not more when it comes out. So the PS3 is cheap. You must compare the price to what you get.

[GrayFox]

Whats new in the ps3? - an xbox live copy, and a worse wii controller yet its more expensive than the 360 and wii combined
Yeah, I no what u mean...$600??? FUCK YOU SONY!!!

Dont know if this was ironic, but i answer anyway. A standalone Blu-Ray player will cost about $600, if not more when it comes out. So the PS3 is cheap. You must compare the price to what you get.

If you want a Blu-Ray Player, its a deal.

But seriously, I don't even have HDMI yet, so its pointless for me. 1080p? Seriously guys? I don't need it. I just want games.

I'm sick of all this extra shit that's being billed as essential components to my gaming experience. Guess what, no they're not. Don't side with Ken, this thing isn't cheap. It's expensive.

Whatever, I'm still getting one at launch.

[Kid Ice]

Sony started the "no 2-D" thing back with the Playstation ten years ago. They've had the best-selling console (by a mile) ever since. Am I to scratch my head and try to figure out why this policy is still in place?

Somehow I doubt it is because they are "assholes", "dickheads", etc. Or because they "hate" 2D games (huh?) Or because Sony customers are "graphics hores" (wha?) Or because Sony wants to "brainwash" people.

[Griking]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.

So, one specific example?

You won't find that many examples because not many companies are crazy enough to spend the time and money to complete a game that they know Sony won't allow to be released.

Didn't the Working Designs president rip Sony over their game approval policies before the company went out of business?

[jajaja]

Whats new in the ps3? - an xbox live copy, and a worse wii controller yet its more expensive than the 360 and wii combined
Yeah, I no what u mean...$600??? FUCK YOU SONY!!!

Dont know if this was ironic, but i answer anyway. A standalone Blu-Ray player will cost about $600, if not more when it comes out. So the PS3 is cheap. You must compare the price to what you get.

If you want a Blu-Ray Player, its a deal.

But seriously, I don't even have HDMI yet, so its pointless for me. 1080p? Seriously guys? I don't need it. I just want games.

I'm sick of all this extra shit that's being billed as essential components to my gaming experience. Guess what, no they're not. Don't side with Ken, this thing isn't cheap. It's expensive.

Whatever, I'm still getting one at launch.

Games will be on Blu-Ray some day :) And one day you will most likely get a better TV. I dont have a HD TV or anything, just a normal 28" TV. I will still get PS3. I dont buy it because i primarly want a Blu-Ray player either, but you must compare the price to what you get.

[GrayFox]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.

So, one specific example?

You won't find that many examples because not many companies are crazy enough to spend the time and money to complete a game that they know Sony won't allow to be released.

Didn't the Working Designs president rip Sony over their game approval policies before the company went out of business?

Didn't Metal Slug 3 get the axe in America?

[odyeiop]

Didn't Metal Slug 3 get the axe in America?
For PS2 I think so.. it's happily on the XBox though =)

[Fighter17]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.

So, one specific example?

You won't find that many examples because not many companies are crazy enough to spend the time and money to complete a game that they know Sony won't allow to be released.

Didn't the Working Designs president rip Sony over their game approval policies before the company went out of business?

Didn't Metal Slug 3 get the axe in America?

Yes, on the PS2. Later SNK release it on the XBOX.

[Fighter17]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.
Granted, there aren't a lot of 2D games, but there are some. SNK has KoF and Metal Slug games, there are also other fighting games, MvC2, Guilty Gear, and even Alien Hominid was released, and they plan on releasing another 2D game at somepoint.

So, one specific example?

OK, let me start:

DoDonPachi: Dai-OuJou (Agetec)
Ys (NEC Interchannel)
Metal Slug 3 (SNK)
Samurai Shodown V (SNK)

and there's many more where that came from:

HIT LIST (http://alwaysgame.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000D31&topic_id=SEGA%20Forum&topic=)

Sony to me is very evil!

[Richter Belmount]

OK, let me start:

DoDonPachi: Dai-OuJou (Agetec)
Ys (NEC Interchannel)
Metal Slug 3 (SNK)
Samurai Shodown V (SNK)

and there's many more where that came from:

HIT LIST (http://alwaysgame.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000D31&topic_id=SEGA%20Forum&topic=)

Sony to me is very evil!
Damn I really hate they blocked one of my favorite serie's
Ys? I wonder why their isnt another 2d casltlevania on the playstation systems. I wonder if the castlevania creator is aware their biast mentality towards 2d gaming.

[shoes23]

Wow! Don't you people realize that if 2D games sold well here in America then companies would be all over marketing them to us? A simple equation of supply and demand; and there is no demand for some games here. If you want them so bad then buy a mod chip and import. And quit the bullshit about brainwashing, 3D games suck, and Sony being evil. Kid Ice had it right Sony is winning the console war for a reason. I look through my library of PS2 games and find plently of good titles; some 2D others 3D.

[GrayFox]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.

So, one specific example?

You won't find that many examples because not many companies are crazy enough to spend the time and money to complete a game that they know Sony won't allow to be released.

Didn't the Working Designs president rip Sony over their game approval policies before the company went out of business?

Didn't Metal Slug 3 get the axe in America?

Yes, on the PS2. Later SNK release it on the XBOX.

Yeah, I got the Xbox version, for sures.

But hey, that's an example. Huzzah.

[MrSmiley381]

Sony could've just struck a deal of sorts where 2D developers were on their own. If they want to release a 2D fighter, that company has to deal with the losses.

Or isn't that what they have in place?

To be honest, I don't think I'll ever understand any of Sony's thinking. They're either abstract or control freaks.

Just remember that they gave us ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, and God of War. Yes, all 3D but all known for being good.


Anyway, might as well import your 2D stuff, because I sure as hell am.

[smork]

Geez, folks, how is Sony evil again? It's not like they're a monopoly -- if you don't like them, buy Xbox, or Nintendo. If you want JP 2D games, get a JP PS2 and go online to play-asia. How hard is that?

If you're really interested in 2D games, there's about 10,000 of them available on Atari 2600/5200/7800, NES, O2, SNES, Saturn, TG16, DC, etc, etc, etc.... The world is not lacking 2D games....

[Richter Belmount]

We can still be upset for them not letting release the hardcore cool stuff , sure you can import but what about the games that that are complex and need major translations? but the companies were willing to make a translated version but sony denies them.

[Lord_Magus]

Games will be on Blu-Ray some day :) And one day you will most likely get a better TV. I dont have a HD TV or anything, just a normal 28" TV. I will still get PS3. I dont buy it because i primarly want a Blu-Ray player either, but you must compare the price to what you get.

So you're openly admitting you're actually buying something you don't need, for $600 nonetheless, simply because it seems like a good deal???

Good to see Sony's marketing campaign is actually working on the average consumer...heh :/

[bangtango]

Wasn't the Sega Saturn supposed to be a haven for 2D games? :D

I have a feeling that some of the same people (not necessarily those on these boards) who say Sony are bad guys for not making 2D games a priority are also the same people who sat back and let the Sega Saturn die while Sony buried them. Those same folks probably bought up 3D Playstation games in bunches.

With that said, it is over ten years later. Remind me again what Sony ever really did for the gaming industry that Nintendo never could have done, aside from bigger (i.e. bloated) advertising campaigns and corporate tie-in's? Oh, they made gaming "cool" again, if you believe newspapers and magazines. That's it. It's not like gaming would be in a rut if Sony had failed with Playstation.

All the truly great games, even the exclusives, from both Playstation consoles are always made by third-parties who sign exclusive deals. At least Nintendo can scrape together their own games. I'd find it amusing to see them become a third-party for X-Box.

Go visit a Playstation message board and watch some of the people who say that "The X-Box isn't allowed to come out with (insert a popular Playstation game), they're stealing our games."

This all comes to mind only because someone brings up it really has been over ten years since Sony entered the console wars.

[jajaja]

Games will be on Blu-Ray some day :) And one day you will most likely get a better TV. I dont have a HD TV or anything, just a normal 28" TV. I will still get PS3. I dont buy it because i primarly want a Blu-Ray player either, but you must compare the price to what you get.

So you're openly admitting you're actually buying something you don't need, for $600 nonetheless, simply because it seems like a good deal???

Good to see Sony's marketing campaign is actually working on the average consumer...heh :/

First, why do you take things out of the blue? Where did i say i didnt need it? Your missing the whole point. Compare the price of what your getting and you will see its not expencive. Just because the PS3 have the ability to show HD doesnt mean that you MUST have a HD-TV to use it.

Games for PS3 will be on Blu-Ray some day so logical you will need a Blu-Ray player to play them. Do you think Sony will release games on Blu-Ray and "hey, how da fuck do you play them?? PS3 didnt include a Blu-Ray player to save money!". ? Im glad Sony didnt do as Microsoft, releasing a external HD-DVD player later.

What on earth does this have to to with marketing campaign? It havnt even started yet! Its logical thinking. Glad i have the ability to do that atleast. Oh, and its not $600 here, its $800.

The thing is, people complain about the price, but they dont check what they really get. Its like going into a Ferrari dealer and say "HOLY FUCK this car is expencive, i can get a Toyota much cheaper!". They are both sports cars, they both drive. Are the cars the same? Nope. So why should you pay so much more for a Ferrari if you dont need it? You do get from A to B in any other car too.

Another example is Neo Geo over SNES. Both are 16-bit consoles. Why buy Neo Geo when its much more expencive than SNES? Do you see what i mean?

[WanganRunner]

Don't forget that they'll love the same shit over and over as long you put 50 Cent on the cover. @_@

Unfortunately, that is the country we live in (some of us).

[Lord_Magus]

Games will be on Blu-Ray some day :) And one day you will most likely get a better TV. I dont have a HD TV or anything, just a normal 28" TV. I will still get PS3. I dont buy it because i primarly want a Blu-Ray player either, but you must compare the price to what you get.

So you're openly admitting you're actually buying something you don't need, for $600 nonetheless, simply because it seems like a good deal???

Good to see Sony's marketing campaign is actually working on the average consumer...heh :/

First, why do you take things out of the blue? Where did i say i didnt need it? Your missing the whole point. Compare the price of what your getting and you will see its not expencive. Just because the PS3 have the ability to show HD doesnt mean that you MUST have a HD-TV to use it.

Games for PS3 will be on Blu-Ray some day so logical you will need a Blu-Ray player to play them. Do you think Sony will release games on Blu-Ray and "hey, how da fuck do you play them?? PS3 didnt include a Blu-Ray player to save money!". ? Im glad Sony didnt do as Microsoft, releasing a external HD-DVD player later.

What on earth does this have to to with marketing campaign? It havnt even started yet! Its logical thinking. Glad i have the ability to do that atleast. Oh, and its not $600 here, its $800.

The thing is, people complain about the price, but they dont check what they really get. Its like going into a Ferrari dealer and say "HOLY FUCK this car is expencive, i can get a Toyota much cheaper!". They are both sports cars, they both drive. Are the cars the same? Nope. So why should you pay so much more for a Ferrari if you dont need it? You do get from A to B in any other car too.

Another example is Neo Geo over SNES. Both are 16-bit consoles. Why buy Neo Geo when its much more expencive than SNES? Do you see what i mean?

I agree with what you are saying, but that doesn't necessarily mean I can justify spending $600\$800 on a games console, just because the technology it provides might become useful in a few years.

Saying that its cheap for what it offers might be true, but then again why not wait a couple of years until this whole Blu-Ray thing actually picks up, and then buy a Blu-Ray drive for just a fraction of the PS3's launch price?

Anyway, its still early to be arguing over the value of a system that hasn't even been released yet, and I'm definitely not the one to be telling you what to do with your money - if you have the spare cash and you think its worth it, buy a PS3 and use it as a friggin doorstep for all I care :)

[Griking]

Games will be on Blu-Ray some day :) And one day you will most likely get a better TV. I dont have a HD TV or anything, just a normal 28" TV. I will still get PS3. I dont buy it because i primarly want a Blu-Ray player either, but you must compare the price to what you get.

So you're openly admitting you're actually buying something you don't need, for $600 nonetheless, simply because it seems like a good deal???

Good to see Sony's marketing campaign is actually working on the average consumer...heh :/

If they bundled a cappuccino maker into the PS3 and only charged and extra $50 I wonder if the Sony lovers would still say it's a great deal since a cappuccino maker generally sell for more than that? It doesn't matter if you needed one of course, it's such a great deal. Of course if Sony did do this you realize that it would only work with Sony branded beans. :P

Isn't everyone tired of companies telling us what we need and then charging us for it rather than letting us decide for ourselves?

[jajaja]

I agree with what you are saying, but that doesn't necessarily mean I can justify spending $600\$800 on a games console, just because the technology it provides might become useful in a few years.

Saying that its cheap for what it offers might be true, but then again why not wait a couple of years until this whole Blu-Ray thing actually picks up, and then buy a Blu-Ray drive for just a fraction of the PS3's launch price?

Anyway, its still early to be arguing over the value of a system that hasn't even been released yet, and I'm definitely not the one to be telling you what to do with your money - if you have the spare cash and you think its worth it, buy a PS3 and use it as a friggin doorstep for all I care :)

Well.. ye, compared to the other consoles the PS3 is the most expencive. But it is state of the art for what you can get as a console :) Many people dont care much about this therefor i think its good that Nintendo and Microsoft have a cheaper alternative.

I will personally wait about 6 months before i get one. I never buy thing at release date. I waited for the PS2 to drop with about $250 before i got it and then i also got 2 games included. I dont have any problems waiting.



If they bundled a cappuccino maker into the PS3 and only charged and extra $50 I wonder if the Sony lovers would still say it's a great deal since a cappuccino maker generally sell for more than that?

You also missed my point. I never said that you should buy it just because its a good deal. I said you must compare the price for the PS3 and to a standalone Blu-Ray player. If your going to buy a standalone Blu-Ray player which will probly cost about the same price as a PS3. PS3 have much more features than a standalone player so you get much more for the money, therefor its not a bad price.

Cappuccino maker is old tech and something completely diffrent. Its not essensial nor needed to play the new games and it doesnt make the games better or faster. I know this was just a joke from you, but still it cant be compared to Blu-Ray and Cell CPU :P


Isn't everyone tired of companies telling us what we need and then charging us for it rather than letting us decide for ourselves?

You need the Cell CPU and Blu-Ray player to get the maximum effect out of the PS3. These 2 things is what makes PS3 the PS3. Why do you want to remove these things? You say you want to decide for yourself, how would the PS3 be if you could decide?

Btw, you can decide for yourself of course, or are anyone forcing you to buy the PS3 at launch?

[SkiDragon]

I said you must compare the price for the PS3 and to a standalone Blu-Ray player. If your going to buy a standalone Blu-Ray player which will probly cost about the same price as a PS3. PS3 have much more features than a standalone player so you get much more for the money, therefor its not a bad price.

The PS3 will be a very competitively priced Blue-Ray player.

[jonnyutah]

2d is not a bad thing. :) especially when you ad hd visuals, multi core processing and and 512 ram :D intersting possibilities arise.

I'd like to see snk do some stuff on live arcade. bring on over a samurai showdown collection :-P maybe a metal slug collection :-P :-P

[suckerpunch5]

Dont know if this was ironic, but i answer anyway. A standalone Blu-Ray player will cost about $600, if not more when it comes out. So the PS3 is cheap. You must compare the price to what you get.

Yeah, sign me up for a Blu-Ray player. Not. Who gives a crap? (rhetorical question). I have a 29" televsion. I'll never have a huge t.v. A lot of people are just like me. I have no need for HDTV, or Blu Ray. I don't think I ever will.

Meh. I shouldn't have responeded to this. I just get so emotional. . .

[Griking]

Cappuccino maker is old tech and something completely diffrent. Its not essensial nor needed to play the new games and it doesnt make the games better or faster. I know this was just a joke from you, but still it cant be compared to Blu-Ray and Cell CPU :P

Other than the old tech part the exact same thing could be said about Blu-Ray

[SirDrexl]

We have no idea at this point how good the BR player in the PS3 will be. It could be very poor in quality compared to a standalone player, just as the PS2 was as a DVD player. Then again, I'm not sure the general public will care. There are people out there who think that if they have an HDTV, their DVDs become HD (whether their player is capable of upscaling or not).

[jajaja]

Cappuccino maker is old tech and something completely diffrent. Its not essensial nor needed to play the new games and it doesnt make the games better or faster. I know this was just a joke from you, but still it cant be compared to Blu-Ray and Cell CPU :P

Other than the old tech part the exact same thing could be said about Blu-Ray

Blu-Ray discs can store upto 50gb (or is it 54gb?) of data. This allows the developeres to make more detailed and better games. So it IS essensial and needed.

You never answered my question btw, you said you wanted to decide for yourself what the PS3 should have, what would it be?


Yeah, sign me up for a Blu-Ray player. Not. Who gives a crap? (rhetorical question). I have a 29" televsion. I'll never have a huge t.v. A lot of people are just like me. I have no need for HDTV, or Blu Ray. I don't think I ever will.

Meh. I shouldn't have responeded to this. I just get so emotional. . .

Are you saying that Sony should drop the HD support on the PS3 just because someone doesnt have a HD-TV? HD-TV is the future. And who gives a crap? Why do you think PS2 sold so well? Because it also had a DVD player.

[Lord_Magus]

Cappuccino maker is old tech and something completely diffrent. Its not essensial nor needed to play the new games and it doesnt make the games better or faster. I know this was just a joke from you, but still it cant be compared to Blu-Ray and Cell CPU :P


Blu-Ray discs can store upto 50gb (or is it 54gb?) of data. This allows the developeres to make more detailed and better games. So it IS essensial and needed.


Blu-Ray isn't essential nor needed at this stage, and hardware doesn't make better games - developers do.

Just as a sidenote, I'll remind you that the most visually impressive game of the current generation (Resident Evil 4, hands down) was developed for only the 2nd most powerful system (GC), which was also the one using discs with the smallest capacity (2x1.5GB).

At this stage, Blu-Ray just seems like a cheap(?) trick on Sony's behalf to generate interest in their upcoming system, simply because they have absolutely nothing else going for them at the moment.

[jajaja]

Blu-Ray isn't essential nor needed at this stage, and hardware doesn't make better games - developers do.

Try making duke3d in fully 3d for NES :P Of course hardware have alot to say for the games to be better. Better hardware gives the developers more options.


Well.. for once, cutscenes would be in much better quality, this take alot of space. Upto date i agree that 50gb of space isnt needed for games, but some day it will. Today alot of compression is used. When you have more space you dont need this. 3d models are more detailed etc. Stuff like this takes more space.

I dont understand why you want the PS3 to have a DVD player instead. I mean, you use so much time to argue against me why the Blu-Ray player is bad, so its obviously that you want it to be removed.

Why not be one step ahead? Would you prefer to use $200 less on a PS3 now and then buy an external Blu-Ray player in 2 years for $200? This is the way they do it for the xbox360. Matter of taste of course, but i strongly prefer to have it integrated than having some external device hooked up.

[chrisbid]

Wow! Don't you people realize that if 2D games sold well here in America then companies would be all over marketing them to us? A simple equation of supply and demand; and there is no demand for some games here. If you want them so bad then buy a mod chip and import. And quit the bullshit about brainwashing, 3D games suck, and Sony being evil. Kid Ice had it right Sony is winning the console war for a reason. I look through my library of PS2 games and find plently of good titles; some 2D others 3D.


capitalism is supposed to be about choice, if consumers arent even GIVEN a particular choice, then how can we make it? its not just video games though, companies in a lot of industries all copy cat each other and give you 1000 flavors of the same thing. try shopping for regular deodorant (not anti-perspirant) or hand soap that is not anti-bacterial

[SkiDragon]

Back in the day I'm sure processing power, etc. made a big difference in the quality of games. It would be difficult to port Super Mario Bros. to the Atari. Nowadays though it doesn't make as big of a difference. Are we really saying that a game is better if it has more detailed cutscenes? I think they would be better off making games that are more than one disc, the same thing PSX did with normal CDs. It would mean the system could use a much cheaper drive, and the price of games would go up by the 20 cents or whatever that it costs to make an extra DVD.

[n8littlefield]

Whenever this topic of SCEA wont allow 2D games to be released, I ask for one example of a game, that was already completed and released in Japan, that wanted to come out here, and was denied.

So, one specific example?

You won't find that many examples because not many companies are crazy enough to spend the time and money to complete a game that they know Sony won't allow to be released.

Didn't the Working Designs president rip Sony over their game approval policies before the company went out of business?

I didn't see anyone respond to this yet, but yes, he did. When they went under, he posted a message on their message boards, it contained lines like these:

(re: Growlanser) "We just spent too much time fighting the good fight to even get it out"

"Though almost finished and substantially improved from the Japanese release, Goemon is dead for the US, and that was really the final straw, If I can't guarantee that the games I personally choose for us to release in the US can actually get approved and come out, there's no business to be done."


"Sony has made it clear that they do not want the details of their dealings with any publisher made public. Suffice to say that you would buy what we wanted to sell if we could sell it."

And my favorite:

"It's a tough road ahead for games that aren't of the least-common-denominator variety. The choices you make with your hardware dollars are more important than ever for the generation that is upon us."

So yeah, Sony basically killed them by allowing them to work on games and then not approving them.

[Nature Boy]

Can you guys remind me why you care that Sony doesn't release 2D games? You obviously hate the company, so it's not like you own their machine. And if you don't own their machine who is left to buy the 2D games?

I especially love reading the bits about how Sony brainwashes people into buying the same game over and over again, while at the same time you're going on about stuff like Metal Slug 3 (not exactly new and innovated in my books...)

[shoes23]

Wow! Don't you people realize that if 2D games sold well here in America then companies would be all over marketing them to us? A simple equation of supply and demand; and there is no demand for some games here. If you want them so bad then buy a mod chip and import. And quit the bullshit about brainwashing, 3D games suck, and Sony being evil. Kid Ice had it right Sony is winning the console war for a reason. I look through my library of PS2 games and find plently of good titles; some 2D others 3D.


capitalism is supposed to be about choice, if consumers arent even GIVEN a particular choice, then how can we make it? its not just video games though, companies in a lot of industries all copy cat each other and give you 1000 flavors of the same thing. try shopping for regular deodorant (not anti-perspirant) or hand soap that is not anti-bacterial

No capitalism is about making money, not consumer choice. If you were a CEO of a large software devoloper and you could release a game that you are sure will sell over 1 million copies, are you telling me that you would pass that up to bring some niche game to the market instead, that even if it does really well may only sell half of what your million seller would do? If there was a bigger market for those games here then we would see them here.

As far as Sony and the console wars go I'm just tired of hearing the pointless banter back and forth between which console is going to be better/is better. Those who have been around gaming throughout most of it's progression will tell you that they heard talk like this for every major console since the Atari VCS.

[n8littlefield]

Wow! Don't you people realize that if 2D games sold well here in America then companies would be all over marketing them to us? A simple equation of supply and demand; and there is no demand for some games here. If you want them so bad then buy a mod chip and import. And quit the bullshit about brainwashing, 3D games suck, and Sony being evil. Kid Ice had it right Sony is winning the console war for a reason. I look through my library of PS2 games and find plently of good titles; some 2D others 3D.


capitalism is supposed to be about choice, if consumers arent even GIVEN a particular choice, then how can we make it? its not just video games though, companies in a lot of industries all copy cat each other and give you 1000 flavors of the same thing. try shopping for regular deodorant (not anti-perspirant) or hand soap that is not anti-bacterial

No capitalism is about making money, not consumer choice. If you were a CEO of a large software devoloper and you could release a game that you are sure will sell over 1 million copies, are you telling me that you would pass that up to bring some niche game to the market instead, that even if it does really well may only sell half of what your million seller would do? If there was a bigger market for those games here then we would see them here.

As far as Sony and the console wars go I'm just tired of hearing the pointless banter back and forth between which console is going to be better/is better. Those who have been around gaming throughout most of it's progression will tell you that they heard talk like this for every major console since the Atari VCS.

But in this case it's not Sony choosing to approve a million seller over a niche title. It's not Sony's money to lose. Working designs isn't asking Sony to put $$ behind a 2D game, they're just asking for approval to release it.

The complaint comes that Sony is willing to allow garbage like BMX XXX, Simpson Skateboarding, or McFarlane's Evil Prophecy over some very good Japanese games simply based on the fact they are not programmed in 3D.

To put it plainly, Sony would rather NOT approve games, drive Working Designs out of business, and LOSE THE INCOME from the licensing fees on those games than allow a 2D game be released. That is complete crap.

[smork]

The complaint comes that Sony is willing to allow garbage like BMX XXX, Simpson Skateboarding, or McFarlane's Evil Prophecy over some very good Japanese games simply based on the fact they are not programmed in 3D.

To put it plainly, Sony would rather NOT approve games, drive Working Designs out of business, and LOSE THE INCOME from the licensing fees on those games than allow a 2D game be released. That is complete crap.

Yeah, but it's their company, their crap, and they can do what they want with game licensing. If they don't want to "cheapen their brand with old technology" or whatever their reasoning is for rejecting 2D -- well, that's their choice. Obviously Nintendo and Microsoft aren't so restrictive in their approval of 2D -- so if I am a developer who wants to make a 2D game for the US, i'd choose a different platform, and if I am a consumer who likes NTSC/U 2D games, i'd choose a different system. There's more than one.

Working Designs knew how Sony was, so it's somewhat disingenuous to bitch about SCEA doing what SCEA does. If I were them I would have localized some GC games.... Or GBA games. Or hell, how about the Mother 1&2 GBA pack? That'd sell!

[tritium]

The reason DVD change picked up into high gear the way it did is because of the abundance of relatively inexpensive dvd players for the PC, and because the PS2 was inexpensive in comparison with other DVD Players at the time.

The problem is that the developers of the Blu-Ray DVD systems are taking a page out of the history of Laserdisc instead, which did not do too well because it was too expensive for the average consumer.

Regardless of inflation, a $600 entry level price is really high for the average gamer. I would definitely get more value by throwing 600 into my PC. It was NOT the case with a $300 price point.

Pricing is a tricky situation. If you price it too low, it will seem to be too cheap as in quality regardless of actual quality, if you price it too high, you'll have people who simply aren't willing to spend that much.