lock please

[alec]

Didn't you say in annother thread you bought it off ebay a few months ago for about $150? Dude, $300 is a double up. You should appreciate it for what it is and be happy that you just made $150 by doing a minimal amount of work.

[cyberfluxor]

Didn't you say in annother thread you bought it off ebay a few months ago for about $150? Dude, $300 is a double up. You should appreciate it for what it is and be happy that you just made $150 by doing a minimal amount of work.

If that's the case, then yeah, that's a good small profit. Really not shabby whatsoever, but if others want to complain that there could have been more to be made then whatever. Like I said though, maybe you'll randomly find another sealed cheap and either keep that one or sell again. I'd doubt if I stumble across anything highly valuable and in complete mint/sealed condition dirt cheap anytime soon, although I should be comming close to due for getting something more interesting.

[cyberfluxor]

Didn't you say in annother thread you bought it off ebay a few months ago for about $150? Dude, $300 is a double up. You should appreciate it for what it is and be happy that you just made $150 by doing a minimal amount of work.

If that's the case, then yeah, that's a good small profit. Really not shabby whatsoever, but if others want to complain that there could have been more to be made then whatever. Like I said though, maybe you'll randomly find another sealed cheap and either keep that one or sell again. I'd doubt if I stumble across anything highly valuable and in complete mint/sealed condition dirt cheap anytime soon, although I should be comming close to due for getting something more interesting.

[tornadostormxl]

it was about 200 plus the guide and

NEW NEWS

Someone has offer me 410 for it???

[tornadostormxl]

it was about 200 plus the guide and

NEW NEWS

Someone has offer me 410 for it???

[tornadostormxl]

What should i do?

[tornadostormxl]

What should i do?

[coreycorey2000]

You should try to find another one and sell it to him for $410. You can't ba out on your sale. I don't know why you were in such a hurry to sell it. I suggested you try $500 BIN but that would be for the full week. I NEVER reduce my BIN until after the auction ends with no bidders. And I rarely do it then either. Sometimes it takes a couple weeks to get the price you want.

[coreycorey2000]

You should try to find another one and sell it to him for $410. You can't ba out on your sale. I don't know why you were in such a hurry to sell it. I suggested you try $500 BIN but that would be for the full week. I NEVER reduce my BIN until after the auction ends with no bidders. And I rarely do it then either. Sometimes it takes a couple weeks to get the price you want.

[tornadostormxl]

i understand that but the fees would kill the price though

[tornadostormxl]

i understand that but the fees would kill the price though

[InsaneDavid]

it was about 200 plus the guide and

NEW NEWS

Someone has offer me 410 for it???


What should i do?

Honestly? Well I was holding back but... you should grow a freaking spine dude. :shameful:

[InsaneDavid]

it was about 200 plus the guide and

NEW NEWS

Someone has offer me 410 for it???


What should i do?

Honestly? Well I was holding back but... you should grow a freaking spine dude. :shameful:

[tornadostormxl]

nvm i going to do the ebay deal

[tornadostormxl]

nvm i going to do the ebay deal

[biscuitdough]

just say the auction wwas for the picture of a sealed secret of mana game, that's the first time i've actually seen one sealed. i'd pay a good 20 bucks just to touch it, of course maybe that's because im a phyco or something like that. but after today i can always say im not as crazy as that one guy who sold a significant ,aproching priceless with time, piece of gaming history. ahhh now let it all sink in.

[biscuitdough]

just say the auction wwas for the picture of a sealed secret of mana game, that's the first time i've actually seen one sealed. i'd pay a good 20 bucks just to touch it, of course maybe that's because im a phyco or something like that. but after today i can always say im not as crazy as that one guy who sold a significant ,aproching priceless with time, piece of gaming history. ahhh now let it all sink in.

[tornadostormxl]

just say the auction wwas for the picture of a sealed secret of mana game, that's the first time i've actually seen one sealed. i'd pay a good 20 bucks just to touch it, of course maybe that's because im a phyco or something like that. but after today i can always say im not as crazy as that one guy who sold a significant ,aproching priceless with time, piece of gaming history. ahhh now let it all sink in.


Stop makeing me feel worser about selling it :(

[tornadostormxl]

just say the auction wwas for the picture of a sealed secret of mana game, that's the first time i've actually seen one sealed. i'd pay a good 20 bucks just to touch it, of course maybe that's because im a phyco or something like that. but after today i can always say im not as crazy as that one guy who sold a significant ,aproching priceless with time, piece of gaming history. ahhh now let it all sink in.


Stop makeing me feel worser about selling it :(

[CreativeOnlineSurname]

it was about 200 plus the guide and

NEW NEWS

Someone has offer me 410 for it???


What should i do?

Honestly? Well I was holding back but... you should grow a freaking spine dude. :shameful:

100% agreed.

You can't operate like that. You know you'd be on here bitching if someone did that to you, so what makes you think this is even remotely permissible? You made a nice profit from it, so cut your "losses" and move on, man.

[CreativeOnlineSurname]

it was about 200 plus the guide and

NEW NEWS

Someone has offer me 410 for it???


What should i do?

Honestly? Well I was holding back but... you should grow a freaking spine dude. :shameful:

100% agreed.

You can't operate like that. You know you'd be on here bitching if someone did that to you, so what makes you think this is even remotely permissible? You made a nice profit from it, so cut your "losses" and move on, man.

[Steven]

just say the auction wwas for the picture of a sealed secret of mana game, that's the first time i've actually seen one sealed. i'd pay a good 20 bucks just to touch it, of course maybe that's because im a phyco or something like that. but after today i can always say im not as crazy as that one guy who sold a significant ,aproching priceless with time, piece of gaming history. ahhh now let it all sink in.


Stop makeing me feel worser about selling it :(

you mean WORSE.

One cannot feel "worser."

I agree with David.

[Steven]

just say the auction wwas for the picture of a sealed secret of mana game, that's the first time i've actually seen one sealed. i'd pay a good 20 bucks just to touch it, of course maybe that's because im a phyco or something like that. but after today i can always say im not as crazy as that one guy who sold a significant ,aproching priceless with time, piece of gaming history. ahhh now let it all sink in.


Stop makeing me feel worser about selling it :(

you mean WORSE.

One cannot feel "worser."

I agree with David.

[biscuitdough]

just say the auction wwas for the picture of a sealed secret of mana game, that's the first time i've actually seen one sealed. i'd pay a good 20 bucks just to touch it, of course maybe that's because im a phyco or something like that. but after today i can always say im not as crazy as that one guy who sold a significant ,aproching priceless with time, piece of gaming history. ahhh now let it all sink in.


Stop makeing me feel worser about selling it :(

sorry, just making a joke, and a bad one at that.
:( . just make it a goal to save up and buy a new one , or with that 300 $ invest in a sealed game that will be even more rare in the comming years. that's the goal of trading and buying games, buy em low.... sell em high and for extra points, sell it to an idiot, like me!
just to make you feel better, i once sold a beta copy of 40 winks (psx) for 50 bucks, when it was probably priceless. everybody makes mistakes. i just make more of them.

[biscuitdough]

just say the auction wwas for the picture of a sealed secret of mana game, that's the first time i've actually seen one sealed. i'd pay a good 20 bucks just to touch it, of course maybe that's because im a phyco or something like that. but after today i can always say im not as crazy as that one guy who sold a significant ,aproching priceless with time, piece of gaming history. ahhh now let it all sink in.


Stop makeing me feel worser about selling it :(

sorry, just making a joke, and a bad one at that.
:( . just make it a goal to save up and buy a new one , or with that 300 $ invest in a sealed game that will be even more rare in the comming years. that's the goal of trading and buying games, buy em low.... sell em high and for extra points, sell it to an idiot, like me!
just to make you feel better, i once sold a beta copy of 40 winks (psx) for 50 bucks, when it was probably priceless. everybody makes mistakes. i just make more of them.

[Poofta!]

bullshit, dont sell it to him, i had a couple auctions end at lower than expected prices, i refunded all the cash and said its no longer for sale. big woop. most people wont leave negs cause of fear you will leave one back. besides you can dispute it, say it fell in the fireplace... cmon now. its your game and dont settle for less than what you want to get for it. the deal isnt complete until the game leaves your hands.

[Poofta!]

bullshit, dont sell it to him, i had a couple auctions end at lower than expected prices, i refunded all the cash and said its no longer for sale. big woop. most people wont leave negs cause of fear you will leave one back. besides you can dispute it, say it fell in the fireplace... cmon now. its your game and dont settle for less than what you want to get for it. the deal isnt complete until the game leaves your hands.

[Steven]

bullshit, dont sell it to him, i had a couple auctions end at lower than expected prices, i refunded all the cash and said its no longer for sale. big woop. most people wont leave negs cause of fear you will leave one back. besides you can dispute it, say it fell in the fireplace... cmon now. its your game and dont settle for less than what you want to get for it. the deal isnt complete until the game leaves your hands.

wow. That is your opinion but I don't respect that opinion whatsoever. I don't care if you don't care -- I know MANY of us despises that mentality. There's something called CONTRACT BINDING and more importantly, integrity. This dude sold it for 300, not 100. The buyer paid, there's no question now that the seller has to send.

To the original poster, I really hope you do the right thing and send the game soon to the guy who paid 309 for it. Do the right thing. Remember, you set the Buy It Now price, you have no one to blame but yourself. Suck it up and be a man. Honor the deal.

[Steven]

bullshit, dont sell it to him, i had a couple auctions end at lower than expected prices, i refunded all the cash and said its no longer for sale. big woop. most people wont leave negs cause of fear you will leave one back. besides you can dispute it, say it fell in the fireplace... cmon now. its your game and dont settle for less than what you want to get for it. the deal isnt complete until the game leaves your hands.

wow. That is your opinion but I don't respect that opinion whatsoever. I don't care if you don't care -- I know MANY of us despises that mentality. There's something called CONTRACT BINDING and more importantly, integrity. This dude sold it for 300, not 100. The buyer paid, there's no question now that the seller has to send.

To the original poster, I really hope you do the right thing and send the game soon to the guy who paid 309 for it. Do the right thing. Remember, you set the Buy It Now price, you have no one to blame but yourself. Suck it up and be a man. Honor the deal.

[kentuckyfried]

This thread sucks.
I come back here after all this time and it's the same crap moaning about selling the game and potential un-ethicalness.

I'm turning my back on this thread and recommend others do the same.

[kentuckyfried]

This thread sucks.
I come back here after all this time and it's the same crap moaning about selling the game and potential un-ethicalness.

I'm turning my back on this thread and recommend others do the same.

[dedtech]

bullshit, dont sell it to him, i had a couple auctions end at lower than expected prices, i refunded all the cash and said its no longer for sale. big woop. most people wont leave negs cause of fear you will leave one back. besides you can dispute it, say it fell in the fireplace... cmon now. its your game and dont settle for less than what you want to get for it. the deal isnt complete until the game leaves your hands.

Wrong! If you list an item in an aution/auction house and, someone wins the autions at the requested price and, you accept the money you have made a legal contract. In fact as soon as you accepted the money you have finalized the contract and the seller is considered to have full responsibility for all damages untill the item is shipped. (FOB Shipping) Unless the contract is FOB Destination in which the seller has responsibility untill it reaches my door. Also, if the buyer has a buyer for this item and you fall through he could claim economic damages and sue for the original ammount plus the lost profits from the sale. (Wow, business law did payoff some)

Final word, Im ticked off at this point. Sorry there tornadostormxl you have just mad my list of people I will never buy from no matter what. I dont mean to be an ass but its been what 5-6 days since the end of the auction and you still havent shipped the item. (because your still debaiting the sale.) Not to mention by the time you read this it will be one more day and still no shipping. Thats not just sad thats dishonerable. Also, this is not an isolated event. You have a neutral in your profile that shows you blew off someone you sold to. *Game didn't work when received, sent e-mails back and forth,lost contact.* There should have been no sent emails back and forth. The product should have been checked before listing to make sure it was in good order and when you had a complaint about a defective item you should have made it right. You could have asked the buyer to ship the item back at his expence and you would have offered a refund or a replacement if possible. There should never be an email game with the buyers and sellers on ebay. If you cant make a clean sale get the hell off of ebay. Its bad behaviour like this that makes ebay suck.
now, appoligize to your customer and, ship the daum game.

Hope That helps!

Now, Im out of this daum thread. I feel dirty like I have been flirting with wire fraud.

[dedtech]

bullshit, dont sell it to him, i had a couple auctions end at lower than expected prices, i refunded all the cash and said its no longer for sale. big woop. most people wont leave negs cause of fear you will leave one back. besides you can dispute it, say it fell in the fireplace... cmon now. its your game and dont settle for less than what you want to get for it. the deal isnt complete until the game leaves your hands.

Wrong! If you list an item in an aution/auction house and, someone wins the autions at the requested price and, you accept the money you have made a legal contract. In fact as soon as you accepted the money you have finalized the contract and the seller is considered to have full responsibility for all damages untill the item is shipped. (FOB Shipping) Unless the contract is FOB Destination in which the seller has responsibility untill it reaches my door. Also, if the buyer has a buyer for this item and you fall through he could claim economic damages and sue for the original ammount plus the lost profits from the sale. (Wow, business law did payoff some)

Final word, Im ticked off at this point. Sorry there tornadostormxl you have just mad my list of people I will never buy from no matter what. I dont mean to be an ass but its been what 5-6 days since the end of the auction and you still havent shipped the item. (because your still debaiting the sale.) Not to mention by the time you read this it will be one more day and still no shipping. Thats not just sad thats dishonerable. Also, this is not an isolated event. You have a neutral in your profile that shows you blew off someone you sold to. *Game didn't work when received, sent e-mails back and forth,lost contact.* There should have been no sent emails back and forth. The product should have been checked before listing to make sure it was in good order and when you had a complaint about a defective item you should have made it right. You could have asked the buyer to ship the item back at his expence and you would have offered a refund or a replacement if possible. There should never be an email game with the buyers and sellers on ebay. If you cant make a clean sale get the hell off of ebay. Its bad behaviour like this that makes ebay suck.
now, appoligize to your customer and, ship the daum game.

Hope That helps!

Now, Im out of this daum thread. I feel dirty like I have been flirting with wire fraud.

[Sniderman]

it was about 200 plus the guide and

NEW NEWS

Someone has offer me 410 for it???

What should i do?

You will send it to THE GUY WHO ALREADY PAID FOR IT.

Jesus, don't be an asshat. :roll:

[Sniderman]

it was about 200 plus the guide and

NEW NEWS

Someone has offer me 410 for it???

What should i do?

You will send it to THE GUY WHO ALREADY PAID FOR IT.

Jesus, don't be an asshat. :roll:

[bangtango]

bullshit, dont sell it to him, i had a couple auctions end at lower than expected prices, i refunded all the cash and said its no longer for sale. big woop. most people wont leave negs cause of fear you will leave one back. besides you can dispute it, say it fell in the fireplace... cmon now. its your game and dont settle for less than what you want to get for it. the deal isnt complete until the game leaves your hands.

I hate to bump this again, but I see two problems here.

1. Using this logic, you seem to suggest it would be ok to do things the other way. When you are buying on Ebay, if you don't like your final bid for an item and feel it is too high, do you guys try to find a way to get out of paying for the item? I have people do that from time to time. They even send emails admitting they didn't like the final price (felt it was too high, even though they bid it up), so they want to get out of paying for it. It leads to me relisting or doing a second chance offer. Does it also make it ok, when you win an auction, to bug the buyer and try to talk him into either shipping the item for free ("because I've already paid so much") or dropping the invoice amount by a few dollars? Because I have had buyers ask me to do that, too, after they have already won and knew what the shipping cost (and their final bid) would be.

2. Most educated Ebayers not only consider the feedback rating but the source of the negative comments. If someone stiffs me on an item and decides not to sell it after the auction is over, I would have no problem leaving them negative feedback as a buyer. Even if they leave me negative feedback, what kind of comment can they make (to me as a buyer) that would ruin my reputation? What can they say? "Oh, he is a real meanie and couldn't deal with the fact I no longer had the item for sale or lost it." My negative on them, saying they welched on a deal, looks a lot worse than any negative they could leave to me since I am only a pissed off buyer who had an item that I won pulled out from under me.

[bangtango]

bullshit, dont sell it to him, i had a couple auctions end at lower than expected prices, i refunded all the cash and said its no longer for sale. big woop. most people wont leave negs cause of fear you will leave one back. besides you can dispute it, say it fell in the fireplace... cmon now. its your game and dont settle for less than what you want to get for it. the deal isnt complete until the game leaves your hands.

I hate to bump this again, but I see two problems here.

1. Using this logic, you seem to suggest it would be ok to do things the other way. When you are buying on Ebay, if you don't like your final bid for an item and feel it is too high, do you guys try to find a way to get out of paying for the item? I have people do that from time to time. They even send emails admitting they didn't like the final price (felt it was too high, even though they bid it up), so they want to get out of paying for it. It leads to me relisting or doing a second chance offer. Does it also make it ok, when you win an auction, to bug the buyer and try to talk him into either shipping the item for free ("because I've already paid so much") or dropping the invoice amount by a few dollars? Because I have had buyers ask me to do that, too, after they have already won and knew what the shipping cost (and their final bid) would be.

2. Most educated Ebayers not only consider the feedback rating but the source of the negative comments. If someone stiffs me on an item and decides not to sell it after the auction is over, I would have no problem leaving them negative feedback as a buyer. Even if they leave me negative feedback, what kind of comment can they make (to me as a buyer) that would ruin my reputation? What can they say? "Oh, he is a real meanie and couldn't deal with the fact I no longer had the item for sale or lost it." My negative on them, saying they welched on a deal, looks a lot worse than any negative they could leave to me since I am only a pissed off buyer who had an item that I won pulled out from under me.

[tornadostormxl]

It has been sent today.
Maybe we will not like the condition and ask for a return

[suppafly]

It has been sent today.
Maybe we will not like the condition and ask for a return

Just a tip:

You sound just like the person that SHOULDNT sell things on ebay. Because you sound like the kind of person that is too impatient to wait for someone to pay the real price of your items for sale.

OR you could come up with a price that you WONT lower and stick to it

[tornadostormxl]

It has been sent today.
Maybe we will not like the condition and ask for a return

Just a tip:

You sound just like the person that SHOULDNT sell things on ebay. Because you sound like the kind of person that is too impatient to wait for someone to pay the real price of your items for sale.

OR you could come up with a price that you WONT lower and stick to it

Your exactly right that me i just dont want to ebay it again

[InsaneDavid]

It has been sent today.
Maybe we will not like the condition and ask for a return

I don't think so, since he's known about this thread here for quite awhile now. ;)

[tornadostormxl]

show yourself buyer i know you readed this

[tornadostormxl]

It has been sent today.
Maybe we will not like the condition and ask for a return

I don't think so, since he's known about this thread here for quite awhile now. ;)


are you the snitch?

[geneshifter]

Did you not have a reserve on the auction? Well, at least you did send it.

I think you need to mature a bit before selling things again. It's because of people like you who do not send the items that ebay has the feedback system and claim filing on paypal.

[exit]

It has been sent today.
Maybe we will not like the condition and ask for a return

I don't think so, since he's known about this thread here for quite awhile now. ;)


are you the snitch?

Are you getting upset that someone told the guy the truth? I think the buyer has every right to know exactly what's going on. And are you really that shocked that someone told him? This thread has been going on for quite awhile and it was bound to happen sooner or later.

Seriously, stay the hell off of e-bay if you can't stop acting like a child. It's dishonest actions like this that ruin E-bay for everyone.

[Steven]

LOL this thread is gold, classic, timeless stuff. LOL

BTW, it's not "readed" it's just "read" please stay in school and pay attention.

[Daria]

I'll be surprised if there was only one "snitch" who's read this thread. Hell I almost emailed the buyer myself. You're a douche tornado, sell the poor man his game and quit your damn whining.

[tornadostormxl]

i just want to know nothing wrong with that

[Wavelflack]

Isn't this the same guy who charged for priority mail and sent the package in a bubble mailer, then tried to weasel out of the paypal chargeback when the item arrived damaged?

Let me see here...

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83815&highlight=

Why, yes it is!

[carlcarlson]

BTW, it's not "readed" it's just "read" please stay in school and pay attention.

that's frickin hilarious, I thought the same thing every time I read one of his posts.

[exit]

Wow this kid is a real jackass, he really deserves a fist in the face. I hope the buyer keeps the item and then files a disput saying he never received it, then this shmuck would be forced to refund the buyers money.

[dedtech]

I'll be surprised if there was only one "snitch" who's read this thread. Hell I almost emailed the buyer myself. You're a douche tornado, sell the poor man his game and quit your damn whining.

HaHaHa!! Its good to know that Im not the only one that though about mailing the buyer. Well, more like fantasized about how funny it would be. Im glad someone actually did it. :evil:

[bangtango]

Isn't this the same guy who charged for priority mail and sent the package in a bubble mailer, then tried to weasel out of the paypal chargeback when the item arrived damaged?

Let me see here...

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83815&highlight=

Why, yes it is!

*Hearty Laugh*

That thread you posted, Wavelflack, is even better than the one we are currently in. I urge anyone who has never read what you linked to go there immediately.

[dedtech]

Anyone else go to his profile and notice that he has changed his username again? (May 28th) This is the 4th time and the first two were varriants on what he is using here pretty much.
The changes leads me to suspect that tornado's hides from the last person he sold to.
Thats really sad.....

[bangtango]

Stick a fork in the kid. He's done. :-P

Don't worry. As long as you didn't damage the game on purpose before shipping, in hopes that the buyer would return it, then it will be all right. O_O

[InsaneDavid]

Are you getting upset that someone told the guy the truth? I think the buyer has every right to know exactly what's going on.

Thank you. I've been burned a couple times on eBay myself, left in the dark - had people promise for weeks that they would pay or take forever to even send an item out, running around with doubletalk the entire time. If I would have at least known some of what was going on it would have eased my mind - especially with high value items. And even if you think the game went cheap, $300 is still a lot of money.


And are you really that shocked that someone told him? This thread has been going on for quite awhile and it was bound to happen sooner or later.

Oh, the buyer has known for quite awhile it seems. I told him long ago, wrote him a nice detailed professional message, however I think he may have known what was going on before then. Of course I didn't say anything here then as it was over a week ago and I didn't want to scare tornadostormxl or the buyer off. Also I didn't want him to try and change all his posts before the buyer may have had a chance to read through the entire thread.

I have some integrity, I try to preserve a certain level of that both here and on eBay. The way you do that is giving information about something like this, not being an eBay NARC and getting auctions shut down for BS reasons like so many do.

If you wanted to keep your special brand of sleaze to yourself, you shouldn't have made a post - especially in Classic Gaming.

[All Things Sega]

There's always a lot of this BS going on in Ebay. I love the thing but sometimes it just gets to ridiculous. From overcharging for shipping and sending media mail to not paying for stretches ta a time. The worse is when someone wins your auction, takes a month to pay and then leaves you a negative. !!! Just ranting a bit. As for the post, $300 is still alot, especially for a game. I guess it depends on one's income and ossessiveness to pay that amount. Do the right thing and sell it already and complete the transaction LOL

[kainemaxwell]

It has been sent today.
Maybe we will not like the condition and ask for a return

I don't think so, since he's known about this thread here for quite awhile now. ;)


are you the snitch?
Aren't you being a tad paranoid at this point?

[Damaramu]

Hmm...looks like I've got a new addition to my personal black list.

I'll be sure to let my ebay buddies know your ebay ID so they can black list you too. I'm sure they'll tell their friends and so on.

Moron. :shameful:

[tornadostormxl]

cant someone lock this topic it gone out of hand

[tornadostormxl]

Are you getting upset that someone told the guy the truth? I think the buyer has every right to know exactly what's going on.

Thank you. I've been burned a couple times on eBay myself, left in the dark - had people promise for weeks that they would pay or take forever to even send an item out, running around with doubletalk the entire time. If I would have at least known some of what was going on it would have eased my mind - especially with high value items. And even if you think the game went cheap, $300 is still a lot of money.


And are you really that shocked that someone told him? This thread has been going on for quite awhile and it was bound to happen sooner or later.

Oh, the buyer has known for quite awhile it seems. I told him long ago, wrote him a nice detailed professional message, however I think he may have known what was going on before then. Of course I didn't say anything here then as it was over a week ago and I didn't want to scare tornadostormxl or the buyer off. Also I didn't want him to try and change all his posts before the buyer may have had a chance to read through the entire thread.

I have some integrity, I try to preserve a certain level of that both here and on eBay. The way you do that is giving information about something like this, not being an eBay NARC and getting auctions shut down for BS reasons like so many do.

If you wanted to keep your special brand of sleaze to yourself, you shouldn't have made a post - especially in Classic Gaming.

That all i wanted to know thanks for helping me make the right decision

[Sniderman]

Locked due to:

1. original poster request
2. all points that need to be made have been made
3. we're running out of rocks

<LOCK>