View Full Version : FF12 demo - I don't like this new battle engine
kevin_psx
05-24-2006, 09:12 AM
Just played the demo that comes with Dragon Quest. FF 12 uses a style similar to Kingdom Hearts-- you control character 1, and the computer controls characters 2/3. And instead of lining up to face the enemy, the players run around chaotically. A confusing mess. I don't like it. (Also missing is the cool battle music-- replaced with elevator music crapola.)
Prefered the battle style use in FF4-10 with cinemas / special effect animations.
It was like watching a movie that you directed.
Beautiful.
kevin_psx
05-24-2006, 09:12 AM
Just played the demo that comes with Dragon Quest. FF 12 uses a style similar to Kingdom Hearts-- you control character 1, and the computer controls characters 2/3. And instead of lining up to face the enemy, the players run around chaotically. A confusing mess. I don't like it. (Also missing is the cool battle music-- replaced with elevator music crapola.)
Prefered the battle style use in FF4-10 with cinemas / special effect animations.
It was like watching a movie that you directed.
Beautiful.
Ed Oscuro
05-24-2006, 09:32 AM
I had always wondered why the FF games were still lining up the characters, instead of making use of environmental stuff. Oh well. Maybe this is the game to change that.
Ed Oscuro
05-24-2006, 09:32 AM
I had always wondered why the FF games were still lining up the characters, instead of making use of environmental stuff. Oh well. Maybe this is the game to change that.
anagrama
05-24-2006, 09:52 AM
Well, isn't that the whole point of playing a demo? To see if you like it or not?
Now you've discovered you don't, you can save yourself $50 by not buying the full version.
anagrama
05-24-2006, 09:52 AM
Well, isn't that the whole point of playing a demo? To see if you like it or not?
Now you've discovered you don't, you can save yourself $50 by not buying the full version.
kevin_psx
05-24-2006, 09:53 AM
Anagrama - you are correct. But it's Final Fantasy. Reknowned for having great stories from FF4 onward --so I might be able to overlook the clumsy battles-- if the story is any good.
This game will need to have one hell of a story --else like Kingdom Hearts I'll sell it off on ebay to recover my cash. (Of what I saw so far KH is actually better than FF12.) There was an awesome battle engine in FF10-2. They should have used that. Imho.
I had always wondered why the FF games were still lining up the characters, instead of making use of environmental stuff. Oh well. Maybe this is the game to change that.
Nope. The environment has no effect on the battle (that I could tell).
It's just a chaotic mess.
kevin_psx
05-24-2006, 09:53 AM
Anagrama - you are correct. But it's Final Fantasy. Reknowned for having great stories from FF4 onward --so I might be able to overlook the clumsy battles-- if the story is any good.
This game will need to have one hell of a story --else like Kingdom Hearts I'll sell it off on ebay to recover my cash. (Of what I saw so far KH is actually better than FF12.) There was an awesome battle engine in FF10-2. They should have used that. Imho.
I had always wondered why the FF games were still lining up the characters, instead of making use of environmental stuff. Oh well. Maybe this is the game to change that.
Nope. The environment has no effect on the battle (that I could tell).
It's just a chaotic mess.
s1lence
05-24-2006, 09:55 AM
Well I like the fight engine that is in both KH games. Sure its a bit chaotic, but aren't most REAL battlegrounds that way.
s1lence
05-24-2006, 09:55 AM
Well I like the fight engine that is in both KH games. Sure its a bit chaotic, but aren't most REAL battlegrounds that way.
slip81
05-24-2006, 12:27 PM
Well that's a bit of a dissapointment for me. I like the turn based system used in all previous FF games.
Real time battles with more than one character are okay (the Tales series does it well), but I just don't like it as much as turn based.
slip81
05-24-2006, 12:27 PM
Well that's a bit of a dissapointment for me. I like the turn based system used in all previous FF games.
Real time battles with more than one character are okay (the Tales series does it well), but I just don't like it as much as turn based.
I liked the demo of FF12, it's a big change for the series, but it's them trying something new. The gameplay reminded me more of .hack than anything else, which is probably another reason why I enjoyed it.
I won't pick the game up for if it retails for $50, but I'll pick it up after the price drops.
I liked the demo of FF12, it's a big change for the series, but it's them trying something new. The gameplay reminded me more of .hack than anything else, which is probably another reason why I enjoyed it.
I won't pick the game up for if it retails for $50, but I'll pick it up after the price drops.
zerohero
05-24-2006, 02:14 PM
Grandia battle system - random battles = FF12 battle system.
zerohero
05-24-2006, 02:14 PM
Grandia battle system - random battles = FF12 battle system.
kevin_psx
05-25-2006, 07:34 AM
Well I like the fight engine that is in both KH games. Sure its a bit chaotic, but aren't most REAL battlegrounds that way.
Technically true-- but don't think a >fantasy< game should go for realism. I liked the "cinema" feel of the previous games where you can sit back & watch the battle unfold. I liked seeing FF7's Cloud do his 20-hit Sword Slashing, or FF10's Lulu say, "Burn" and unleash some major butt-kicking.
But now that is gone.
It's just a button-masher. (yawn)
I prefer FF4-10's order to FF12's chaos.
I am a member of the Dominion. LOL
kevin_psx
05-25-2006, 07:34 AM
Well I like the fight engine that is in both KH games. Sure its a bit chaotic, but aren't most REAL battlegrounds that way.
Technically true-- but don't think a >fantasy< game should go for realism. I liked the "cinema" feel of the previous games where you can sit back & watch the battle unfold. I liked seeing FF7's Cloud do his 20-hit Sword Slashing, or FF10's Lulu say, "Burn" and unleash some major butt-kicking.
But now that is gone.
It's just a button-masher. (yawn)
I prefer FF4-10's order to FF12's chaos.
I am a member of the Dominion. LOL
Daltone
05-25-2006, 09:16 AM
Is the combat anything like that in Vagrant Story? I've not seen much of the game in action, but that's what I first thought of when I saw it.
Daltone
05-25-2006, 09:16 AM
Is the combat anything like that in Vagrant Story? I've not seen much of the game in action, but that's what I first thought of when I saw it.
Wolfrider31
05-25-2006, 11:45 AM
I was really dissapointed with the demo, it doesn't even get credit for being a button masher because you can simply set your characters to one attack and they'll slash away over and over until the enemy is dead. Perhaps there was some tweaking in the final version but being able to enter a fight, go make a drink and sandwich and then come back with your guys alive and will is absurd. (Try it, you'll laugh, then you'll cry.)
Wolfrider31
05-25-2006, 11:45 AM
I was really dissapointed with the demo, it doesn't even get credit for being a button masher because you can simply set your characters to one attack and they'll slash away over and over until the enemy is dead. Perhaps there was some tweaking in the final version but being able to enter a fight, go make a drink and sandwich and then come back with your guys alive and will is absurd. (Try it, you'll laugh, then you'll cry.)
Daria
05-25-2006, 12:02 PM
That's pretty much what I did. Started up the demo dungeon ran the gauntlet racking up an army of monsters trailing behind me until I'd aggro-ed them all then set the game to attack and walked away to have a beer. Came back later and I'd killed everyone of them.
Daria
05-25-2006, 12:02 PM
That's pretty much what I did. Started up the demo dungeon ran the gauntlet racking up an army of monsters trailing behind me until I'd aggro-ed them all then set the game to attack and walked away to have a beer. Came back later and I'd killed everyone of them.
vultar
05-25-2006, 12:55 PM
FF games have always been changing thier battle systems and whatnot, and for the most part I think they've managed to improve on thier old system. But, as far a I'm concerned, I think they've gotten to just changing things because they can rather that improving them. When I put the demo in after finishing DW8 I was just dumbstruck by how awful it was; it's not even a good action RPG, or at least all I was seeing in the 10 or so minutes I could stand it were armpits and grainy monsters blundering around. I never liked the changes that 10 made to the series, lack of a worldmap is a big no no for me, and the magic grid seems like a really half-assed 'improvement', but I could at least watch the story (which wasn't that good either in my opinion). Does anyone else think that including a demo for an old series that's gone through sucha a drastic change with one of the most traditional games out there, was a big mistake on thier part?
I can't say I've ever been, or ever will be, a fan of computer controlled characters. I have no idea how the FF12 people will behave themselves but based on previous experience I don't have high hopes. The predefined setups they have never play the way I would, not to mention the characters are dumber than rocks most of the time, just once I'd like a computer character to stop casting spells or attacks that either don't hurt or heal the enemy on thier own. I'd like to be able to trust them with items rather than having to dole them out like I'm handing out treats from the candy stash.
vultar
05-25-2006, 12:55 PM
FF games have always been changing thier battle systems and whatnot, and for the most part I think they've managed to improve on thier old system. But, as far a I'm concerned, I think they've gotten to just changing things because they can rather that improving them. When I put the demo in after finishing DW8 I was just dumbstruck by how awful it was; it's not even a good action RPG, or at least all I was seeing in the 10 or so minutes I could stand it were armpits and grainy monsters blundering around. I never liked the changes that 10 made to the series, lack of a worldmap is a big no no for me, and the magic grid seems like a really half-assed 'improvement', but I could at least watch the story (which wasn't that good either in my opinion). Does anyone else think that including a demo for an old series that's gone through sucha a drastic change with one of the most traditional games out there, was a big mistake on thier part?
I can't say I've ever been, or ever will be, a fan of computer controlled characters. I have no idea how the FF12 people will behave themselves but based on previous experience I don't have high hopes. The predefined setups they have never play the way I would, not to mention the characters are dumber than rocks most of the time, just once I'd like a computer character to stop casting spells or attacks that either don't hurt or heal the enemy on thier own. I'd like to be able to trust them with items rather than having to dole them out like I'm handing out treats from the candy stash.
chrisbid
05-25-2006, 01:07 PM
instead of going for real time, they took the worst parts of real time, and added the worst parts of menu driven. you run up to a monster and enter a command and wait. it really didnt flow very well.
i liked the system in x, where active time was eliminated and your move affected the order in which everyone else made their moves. that was actual strategy instead of button mashing
chrisbid
05-25-2006, 01:07 PM
instead of going for real time, they took the worst parts of real time, and added the worst parts of menu driven. you run up to a monster and enter a command and wait. it really didnt flow very well.
i liked the system in x, where active time was eliminated and your move affected the order in which everyone else made their moves. that was actual strategy instead of button mashing
Mr.FoodMonster
05-25-2006, 03:25 PM
I wasn't aware that 12 was going to be an Action rpg as opposed to LAAAAME turn based. I might actually get into this one.
Towlie2110
05-25-2006, 04:10 PM
I'm a fan of a game that makes "You" the player get better, and not just the character get more powerful by putting more hours in.
If you want a good story as well, then why doesn't SquareSoft take a leaf from the MGS tree? The powers of both companys would be amazing
chrisbid
05-25-2006, 04:15 PM
I wasn't aware that 12 was going to be an Action rpg as opposed to LAAAAME turn based. I might actually get into this one.
thats the problem, its not action in the traditional sense. you move up to an enemy, and pick your action from a menu, then wait for the cpu to execute the move. its a wishy washy hybrid of the two methods, and frankly it doesnt work very well
SkiDragon
05-26-2006, 03:20 AM
Is the combat anything like that in Vagrant Story? I've not seen much of the game in action, but that's what I first thought of when I saw it.
Vagrant story is a really good game, but the battle system is completely different. Vagrant Story is much better.
I was also really disappointed with the demo. It didn't really tell you what the game was about. It just highlighted the horrible battle system. The music wasn't even any good.
I actually prefer turn based battles. I thought X had a good battle system because it did away with "active time". I can appreciate some good "action" RPG elements, e.g. Secret of Mana, or timing elements (Super Mario RPG, Vagrant Story), but in FF12 I just ran around and did menu things and it was really boring.
kevin_psx
05-26-2006, 09:56 AM
instead of going for real time, they took the worst parts of real time, and added the worst parts of menu driven. you run up to a monster and enter a command and wait. it really didnt flow very well.
Well put.
kevin_psx
05-31-2006, 09:21 AM
I wish they had returned to the battle systems used in FF 10-2, FF9, FF7, or FF6. (Turn-based with active-time.) Those were FUN where I actually enjoyed the random battles.
Looks like the Enix merger has killed Square.
Looks like FF12 might qualify as the worst FF since number 2 (on the old nes).