What TV should I buy to avoid burn-in?

[Red Dwarve]

So I’m in the market for a new fancy big TV (I'm thinking around 70"). The reason I’m buying a new one is that my current 10-year-old TV has a busload of things burned into the screen from years of gaming. I have meters in all four corners. I have the opening screen to the original Nintendo and (I think) the PSX. I have random ghosts of things that I don’t know what they are. I am really bad about passing out in front of the TV with my game paused. So, I want to buy a new TV, but I never want this to happen to me again. Anyone know what kind of TV won’t do this? I asked Google and it gave me this, is this a good thing: http://www.dlp.com/

[Red Dwarve]

So I’m in the market for a new fancy big TV (I'm thinking around 70"). The reason I’m buying a new one is that my current 10-year-old TV has a busload of things burned into the screen from years of gaming. I have meters in all four corners. I have the opening screen to the original Nintendo and (I think) the PSX. I have random ghosts of things that I don’t know what they are. I am really bad about passing out in front of the TV with my game paused. So, I want to buy a new TV, but I never want this to happen to me again. Anyone know what kind of TV won’t do this? I asked Google and it gave me this, is this a good thing: http://www.dlp.com/

[Trebuken]

If you want 70"+ you only have four or five choices at the moment. They are all DLP, though not all the sam tech. Some are three screens some one. Not sure any of them have been on the market long enough to judge burn-in, but I do not think it will be a problem, but I do not think you'll get 10 years out of them.

Your biggest problem might be the bulbs in them. Leaving them on will kill the bulb life, but some of the models may have sleep timers or powerdown modes.

You will also want to sit 15 to 20 feet away. Not because you have to but because they will cause eye-strain. The Xbox360 is amazing on my 72" Toshiba. I have been playing Far-Cry, with 6.1 surround sound also...awesome.

Your also talking $3500-$5500. You'll want the warranty...

Good spending. If money isn't an issue I'd wait a few months for the new models...if now I'd go with the 70" JVC Pro 1080P. The Toshiba is the bargain unit of the 70" models. Be aware that these sets can have irritating fan and color wheel noise; the noise decreases slightly with long use...

Good Shopping...my retro systems look cool on this as well....finding wireless controllers or really long extension chords is a must...

Played Gradius (NES) today...whole new experience...

Working on a MAME specific PC for it now also..

Later,
Trebuken

[Trebuken]

If you want 70"+ you only have four or five choices at the moment. They are all DLP, though not all the sam tech. Some are three screens some one. Not sure any of them have been on the market long enough to judge burn-in, but I do not think it will be a problem, but I do not think you'll get 10 years out of them.

Your biggest problem might be the bulbs in them. Leaving them on will kill the bulb life, but some of the models may have sleep timers or powerdown modes.

You will also want to sit 15 to 20 feet away. Not because you have to but because they will cause eye-strain. The Xbox360 is amazing on my 72" Toshiba. I have been playing Far-Cry, with 6.1 surround sound also...awesome.

Your also talking $3500-$5500. You'll want the warranty...

Good spending. If money isn't an issue I'd wait a few months for the new models...if now I'd go with the 70" JVC Pro 1080P. The Toshiba is the bargain unit of the 70" models. Be aware that these sets can have irritating fan and color wheel noise; the noise decreases slightly with long use...

Good Shopping...my retro systems look cool on this as well....finding wireless controllers or really long extension chords is a must...

Played Gradius (NES) today...whole new experience...

Working on a MAME specific PC for it now also..

Later,
Trebuken

[Snapple]

I don't think you don't have to worry about burn-in with any modern tvs as long as you don't leave your game paused and unattended. It's the static image of a paused game that will hurt your tv. If you're moving around and doing stuff, you're fine.

I just remember that if I want to leave my game paused and then leave for a while, I either turn off the tv or switch it back to cable.

[Snapple]

I don't think you don't have to worry about burn-in with any modern tvs as long as you don't leave your game paused and unattended. It's the static image of a paused game that will hurt your tv. If you're moving around and doing stuff, you're fine.

I just remember that if I want to leave my game paused and then leave for a while, I either turn off the tv or switch it back to cable.

[WanganRunner]

I don't think you don't have to worry about burn-in with any modern tvs as long as you don't leave your game paused and unattended. It's the static image of a paused game that will hurt your tv. If you're moving around and doing stuff, you're fine.

Not true.

Plasma TV's WILL burn-in, period. i.e. the gauges at the bottom of the screen on Gran Turismo....there will almost always be SOMETHING static on the screen in most games.

Definitely go with DLP, 1080p if you can afford it, because it's going to be the standard pretty soon.

[WanganRunner]

I don't think you don't have to worry about burn-in with any modern tvs as long as you don't leave your game paused and unattended. It's the static image of a paused game that will hurt your tv. If you're moving around and doing stuff, you're fine.

Not true.

Plasma TV's WILL burn-in, period. i.e. the gauges at the bottom of the screen on Gran Turismo....there will almost always be SOMETHING static on the screen in most games.

Definitely go with DLP, 1080p if you can afford it, because it's going to be the standard pretty soon.

[Sylentwulf]

As long as you're changing games and watching tv on it as well, you'll have no problem. The biggest burn in problem is when there is a static image in the same space for more than 20% of your viewing time.

So while Dragons quest 8 had a static image on my tv for over 100 hours. I finished it, and now there is a static image from SMT DDS on it. But we also watch tv on it, so everything added, and there is really no chance of burn in. If nothing else, just leave the tv on a "snow" or blue, or grey channel when you're not using it to eliminate anything you may have starting to burn in.

My Maxent even has an image shift option on it, that minutely shifts the image every 20 seconds to cut down on burn in.


Edit - For 70" though, I think your ONLY option is a FPTV, which is anthony's department. Do they even make anything over 60" in DLP, LCD, or plasma yet?

[Sylentwulf]

As long as you're changing games and watching tv on it as well, you'll have no problem. The biggest burn in problem is when there is a static image in the same space for more than 20% of your viewing time.

So while Dragons quest 8 had a static image on my tv for over 100 hours. I finished it, and now there is a static image from SMT DDS on it. But we also watch tv on it, so everything added, and there is really no chance of burn in. If nothing else, just leave the tv on a "snow" or blue, or grey channel when you're not using it to eliminate anything you may have starting to burn in.

My Maxent even has an image shift option on it, that minutely shifts the image every 20 seconds to cut down on burn in.


Edit - For 70" though, I think your ONLY option is a FPTV, which is anthony's department. Do they even make anything over 60" in DLP, LCD, or plasma yet?

[Cantaloup]

[double post, sorry]

[Cantaloup]

[double post, sorry]

[Cantaloup]

DLP and LCD do not "burn-in". However, I've heard rare reports of severe "image retention" on some LCDs; this is not (technically) the same as the burn-in that occurs on CRTs and plasmas, which is due to uneven phosphor wear. Turning down brightness and contrast, which are usually set way too high by default, can help prevent burn-in.

AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com) is a great place for information. In addition to a rear-projection TV, you might also want to consider a DLP or LCD-based projector.

[Cantaloup]

DLP and LCD do not "burn-in". However, I've heard rare reports of severe "image retention" on some LCDs; this is not (technically) the same as the burn-in that occurs on CRTs and plasmas, which is due to uneven phosphor wear. Turning down brightness and contrast, which are usually set way too high by default, can help prevent burn-in.

AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com) is a great place for information. In addition to a rear-projection TV, you might also want to consider a DLP or LCD-based projector.

[Sylentwulf]

Ya, as a basic rule, when you buy a new tv, if you don't have an AVIA or video essentials disc, you should at least turn the contrast(picture/white level) and brightness(black level) down to around 50% of the max level.
Then, if you're losing things in dark scenes, turn the brightness up slowly, but make sure the black stays black (not very dark grey)

[Sylentwulf]

Ya, as a basic rule, when you buy a new tv, if you don't have an AVIA or video essentials disc, you should at least turn the contrast(picture/white level) and brightness(black level) down to around 50% of the max level.
Then, if you're losing things in dark scenes, turn the brightness up slowly, but make sure the black stays black (not very dark grey)

[Trebuken]

Ya, as a basic rule, when you buy a new tv, if you don't have an AVIA or video essentials disc, you should at least turn the contrast(picture/white level) and brightness(black level) down to around 50% of the max level.
Then, if you're losing things in dark scenes, turn the brightness up slowly, but make sure the black stays black (not very dark grey)

The easiest way to do this is to use the THX optimizer on the Star Wars DVD's (and some others). AVIA and DVD Essentials are helpful but a little dated (or so I've heard, I use another generic Home Theatre DVD).

I don't expect burn-in with my DLP, but other problems could emerge. That's why you get a three or five year warranty.

Later,
Trebuken

[Snapple]

I don't think you don't have to worry about burn-in with any modern tvs as long as you don't leave your game paused and unattended. It's the static image of a paused game that will hurt your tv. If you're moving around and doing stuff, you're fine.

Not true.

Plasma TV's WILL burn-in, period. i.e. the gauges at the bottom of the screen on Gran Turismo....there will almost always be SOMETHING static on the screen in most games.

Definitely go with DLP, 1080p if you can afford it, because it's going to be the standard pretty soon.

Well, I'm not an expert, but I can only speak from experience. My TV was supposed to be at high-risk for burn-in. I was told that when we got it. I've probably played hundreds of hours of video games on that TV over the past year and a half, and there isn't a single discolored pixel on it so far.

[Anthony1]

Burn in is usally something that happens in only extreme situations, but the worst TV's for it are Rear Projection CRT based sets and Plasmas. LCD's can also have some similar issues. The safest bet when it comes to this is DLP. DLP from a price to performance ratio is hard as hell to beat anyways, so I would definitely look in that direction. Everything always ends up boiling down to how much money you ultimately are going to spend though.


The dream of course, is to get one of only a handfull of very new displays that have "TRUE" 1080p inputs. Unforunately, you are talking 3 grand, and that is for a 50 incher. You start getting into the 60 inch and above range, and you are talking about 4 and 5 grand. These puppies are extremely new on the market, and they are the only game in town when it comes to "true" 1080p displays, so they are comanding a premium right now. Like all things, prices will come down.


In regards to Projectors, for some weird reason, true 1080p projectors are like twice the price of 1080p DLP big screens. So for most people, if you want a state of the art Projector, then you are looking at a "true" 720p projector. There are a number of very solid 720p projectors, but they cost anywhere from $2300 to $4000 or so. Again, alot of cashola. When I can buy a Infocus IN76 for 2 grand out the door, then I'm going to get that as an upgrade to my cheapo Infocus X1. That will be a glorious day. It's possible that by Xmas 2006, the IN76 will be available somewhere for a low enough price, with low enough shipping and no tax, so that I can squeeze one out for 2 grand out the door.

[nate1749]

I didn't read all the post throughly, but isn't there some adapter that you can buy for big screen tv's that prevents burn-in from happening? Just something I heard of, could be as good as those cell phone boosters - anyone know?

Nate

[Red Dwarve]

I frist started to look at the projector TVs but that would start with the money for the TV then enough for a contractor to knock out a wall. So that is out fo the question, lol.

It looks like I am narrowing down my search. I saw a Samsung DLP tv that was off the hook. I mean it was amazing.

[Red Dwarve]

well here is a link to that DLP tv I was looking at the salesman was happy to let me play ps2 games on for a bit, hehe . I will prob go with this one, and only 80lbs

http://www.electronichouse.com/products/weekly/slideshow/194/4315.html

[Trebuken]

Not a bad choice if you can get a good price, but I would suggest sepending a little extra and go over 50" and look for 1080P. Samsung has some models in that category.

I realize it's all about the price most times, but you want to be ready for PS3, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD. The one your looking at might be 'good enough', but you could do better.

Of course many peopl sya, 'buy the one you like', because many people have different ideas of what a good picture is...

Good Luck,
Trebuken

[Red Dwarve]

Not a bad choice if you can get a good price, but I would suggest sepending a little extra and go over 50" and look for 1080P. Samsung has some models in that category.

I realize it's all about the price most times, but you want to be ready for PS3, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD. The one your looking at might be 'good enough', but you could do better.

Of course many peopl sya, 'buy the one you like', because many people have different ideas of what a good picture is...

Good Luck,
Trebuken

Yea can't go wrong with good tech, if you want to be the best you have to buy the best, that is DLP tech, and PS3 lol can't wait till i get min, had it on pre-order for sometime now, have a deposite of 300.00 on that bad boy.

[kung_fu_fist]

would have to agree there will be nothing like watching PS3 on DLP 61in, i love good wide screens.


[quote="Trebuken"]Not a bad choice if you can get a good price, but I would suggest sepending a little extra and go over 50" and look for 1080P. Samsung has some models in that category.

I realize it's all about the price most times, but you want to be ready for PS3, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD. The one your looking at might be 'good enough', but you could do better.

Of course many peopl sya, 'buy the one you like', because many people have different ideas of what a good picture is...

Good Luck,
Trebuken

Yea can't go wrong with good tech, if you want to be the best you have to buy the best, that is DLP tech, and PS3 lol can't wait till i get min, had it on pre-order for sometime now, have a deposite of 300.00 on that bad boy.[/qu

[kung_fu_fist]

what you guys think about this, hehe Metal Gear Solid 4, on a 61in DLP tv, in a dark room, I could only imagine, you would feel like liquid snake is right behind you. hehe

[sega-trader]

After reading through this thread I would recommend not asking this question here (lots of misinformation).

I would suggest going with a DLP rear projection to mazimize size/price value. Also DLP doesn't have screen burnin. You might notice what is called the "rainbow effect" when viewing it that might become really annoying so you should make sure to see the TV before buying.

About the 1080P thing I would just ignore it. There is no broadcast standard for 1080P so you aren't going to get any shows in 1080P any time soon. upcoming DVD technology and the PS3 are supposed to be able to output 1080P, but the nbr of title will probably be minimal. Lastly it is more expensive. If you do decide to get a 1080P TV make sure it accepts a 1080P signal as most don't.

[Red Dwarve]

yea I am still a little mistified by the whole 1080p thing, but I think DLP is the way to go, I hear the rainbow thing only happens if you buy a bad one but not sure.

[Trebuken]

After reading through this thread I would recommend not asking this question here (lots of misinformation).

Please specify.


I would suggest going with a DLP rear projection to mazimize size/price value. Also DLP doesn't have screen burnin. You might notice what is called the "rainbow effect" when viewing it that might become really annoying so you should make sure to see the TV before buying.

Rainbow effect affected mant early builds of DLP's and was weeded out in later builds. It is even more common among among 720P sets, since they are older. JVC seems to be notorious for this.


About the 1080P thing I would just ignore it. There is no broadcast standard for 1080P so you aren't going to get any shows in 1080P any time soon. upcoming DVD technology and the PS3 are supposed to be able to output 1080P, but the nbr of title will probably be minimal. Lastly it is more expensive. If you do decide to get a 1080P TV make sure it accepts a 1080P signal as most don't.

This is not complete. 1080P sets upconvert. Compare an older DVD player that plays at 480i (I think the PS2 is an example) and a progressive scan player (480p). You see a similar result with 1080i converted to 1080p. It's not as obvious though becasue of limitations in the source material. Most do not accept 1080p input, true, but they do not need to because the sets convert 1080i to 1080p in themselves. New models being released this fall are expected to accept 1080p input. It may not be the same but no one knows until they see a Blu-Ray drive outputting at 1080p in June. Firmware updates 'may' be possible in the future...

I do own a 1080p DLP set if that adds any weight. Super expensive and super awesome.

It is expensive.

Later,
Trebuken

[Anthony1]

The whole 1080p input thing basically works like this.




1. If you want to be future proof, for at least the next 5 years or so, then get a set that can actually accept a "true" 1080p input. Of course, the huge downside, is that after tax and everything, you'll be very hard pressed to get one for less than 3 grand out the door, and that is for a 50 incher. 3 grand is a pretty considerable entry fee, to enter the world of "true" 1080p, so right now, I'm not so sure it's worth it to take that route.


2. If you just want to get you feet wet in the High Def waters, then my advice would be to get a relatively in-expensive DLP rear projection that has a HDMI plug. Just get a decent one that does a good 720p signal. Make sure it has one of the more recent 720P DLP chips in it. Now, from a price standpoint, if you are really, "Bout it, Bout it", then you can find one of these puppies for like $1300 out the door with tax and everything, but you are going to have to be on the hunt for deals that pop up. Like 1 day sales and shit like that. Maybe even checking out Craigslist and stuff. If you have a Fry's Electronics near you, then it's even better. They have run a number of ads where you can get a 50 inch 720p DLP for $999 . Now, I'm not sure of the model # or brand, but if it has the relatively newer 720p chip, and a relatively fast color wheel, then it should be fine. Bring your Xbox 360 with you and hook it up to it and see if it does the trick.




Basically, it comes down to whether you want to spend 1 grand or 3 grand. For 1 grand, you aren't going to get anything super state of the art, but you should be able to get a decent 720p DLP, in the 50 inch range, and that's pretty hard to beat. Definitely try to get HDMI if possible, but many times on the bargain basement DLP's the best you can hope for is a HDCP compliant DVI input. It's the next best thing to a HDCP compliant HDMI input, because you can always get a HDMI to DVI adapter (even though they are pricey as hell right now).


And, if you have money to burn, then look at the various "true" 1080p sets that are coming soon. Some of these sets will provide a picture so clear and so crisp, that you will shit your pants when you first see a game like Resistance the Fall of Man for PS3 in 1080p on them. Of course, you're talking 3 times the price, and you will kinda be beta testing these new "true" 1080p HDTV's, because these are the first to arrive. If you go the cheapo route instead, you can save 2 grand, and a few years later, after the dust has settled, get an even better true 1080p set with the 2 grand that you saved.


Of course, you could get killed in car wreck tomorrow, so there is a case for enjoying things in the here and now.

[Sothy]

70 inch?

Christ...

Well for the type of games I play you might as well just buy the fricking helicopter and ak47 and do it for real at that price point....

[XianXi]

Here's a shot in the dark, how about turning it off when you're not using it. That will definitley work to prevent burn-in. If you cant remember, hire someone who can.

[Sylentwulf]

Here's a shot in the dark, how about turning it off when you're not using it. That will definitley work to prevent burn-in. If you cant remember, hire someone who can.

Actually, that wouldn't help at all if there is always the same static image on the screen when it IS on.

[segarocks30]

Well there is a good 42 inch Hitachi Plasma which I have. 70 inches is way too much anyway.

[Red Dwarve]

yea was looking at the DLPs today at the store after work, and I think I might downgrade to 61in instead of the 71, not sure how easy 71 would be to move. hehe

[Trebuken]

yea was looking at the DLPs today at the store after work, and I think I might downgrade to 61in instead of the 71, not sure how easy 71 would be to move. hehe

They are not much heavier, just bigger. The weight of 61" and a 71" vary mostly in the plastic case and the screen, neither of which are heavy.

You do need two people to move a 70"+ set safely (unless you have a seven foot wingspan), but the weight is irrelevant.

Viewing distance is a big deal. I have browsed the open box bargains at all the electronics stores for years and many people are returning these sets because they aren't what they expected.

Don't buy one expecting to watch standard definition TV, it can look horrible.

Later,
Trebuken

[kung_fu_fist]

Yea I was tihnking about 61in DLP for playing games like Halo where you have the screen split up 4ways, hehe sweet.

[Red Dwarve]

Kung_fu_fist what is your viewing range for your DLP, you might want to take that in mind.

[kung_fu_fist]

my viewing range is about 12feet, I read that dlps like for the viewing range to be double the size, so 60in equal 5feet so 10feet or more is good.

[The Manimal]

Rainbow effect affected mant early builds of DLP's and was weeded out in later builds.


This still exists. I think the military released some info about the human ability to see color breakup in sequential color systems. I believe the threshold is around the equivalent of a 48X color wheel. Most cannot see them now, but a percentage will. From what I understand, 3-chip DLP's will not have RBE nor will the one chip 3-LED driven units.

[Trebuken]

Rainbow effect affected mant early builds of DLP's and was weeded out in later builds.


This still exists. I think the military released some info about the human ability to see color breakup in sequential color systems. I believe the threshold is around the equivalent of a 48X color wheel. Most cannot see them now, but a percentage will. From what I understand, 3-chip DLP's will not have RBE nor will the one chip 3-LED driven units.

So essentially, RBE is not significant on the newest models...though it may exist, you will not perceive it...?

Later,
Trebuken

[The Manimal]

Rainbow effect affected mant early builds of DLP's and was weeded out in later builds.


This still exists. I think the military released some info about the human ability to see color breakup in sequential color systems. I believe the threshold is around the equivalent of a 48X color wheel. Most cannot see them now, but a percentage will. From what I understand, 3-chip DLP's will not have RBE nor will the one chip 3-LED driven units.

So essentially, RBE is not significant on the newest models...though it may exist, you will not perceive it...?

Later,
Trebuken

No. Being that the wheels are faster, you are less likely to see them, but for some, they still will see them. Depends on visual abilities of the person.

For Samsung's newest models, the wheels are faster than last years offerings (~14400rpm as opposed to ~10800), but they have half the number of r-g-b segments on the wheel, so it's displaying each of the r-g-b colors less frequently. Why they couldn't just keep the same number of r-g-b segments on the wheel, I don't know... I just hope as a first-time DLP owner, I will not notice them. There's not very many alternatives...maybe an SXRD though these will be lacking FireWire and CableCARD in the 50" model for this year, probably.


Correction on my part: Still not sure about the human limit of seeing color breakup...it may have been 22X and not 48X. I think the 48X may have been the LED DLP which you theoretically should not be able to see it. I know most one-chip DLP projectors and sets are around 4X to 6X..