Guy claims game was stolen, what should I do?

[Steven]

If wrong, please move to the proper forum. But this was a non-eBay transaction, and it involves the SNES game Aero Fighters.

So, I sold this guy AF for $50 shipped. He paid via Paypal credit card. I got a DC number and let him knew his DC #. It stated that the package arrived.

But just now I got this email from him, June 23:

<<
Looks like someone stole my package before I could pick it up. My stupid mailman leaves stuff in the lobby of my apartment. Delivery confirmation says it was delivered (which I believe) but I never picked it up.

Not sure where to go from here. I'd like to dispute it with my credit card company, but I'm not sure how that will affect you. I hope I don't have to just bite the bullet on this one! If you have any suggestions, let me know.
>>

The weird thing is, I sent the package on June 12, 2006 and here's what USPS has to say:

Label/Receipt Number: XXXX
Status: Delivered

Your item was delivered at 11:08 am on June 14, 2006 in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Why didn't he contact me earlier? Does this smell fishy to anyone -- maybe a case of buyer's remorse? I have no way of knowing if he's making this up or not. How should I proceed with this buyer?

[dojosky]

Hi there Steven im sure its FISHY ! that has happened to me before (even the buyer had over 2000 positive feedbacks on ebay !!!!! :( its really SAD how some buyers would want to SCREW out the sellers and trying to get their money back ... as long as USPS said it was delivered to him that is your proof ! ...Good Luck hope you get this solved ...

[50TBRD]

How did you find this guy. Did you set this up with a person you met here or on another site? Find out how reputable the person is.

As far as him waiting that long to contact you about it, he may have checked on the package's status around the 23 because he haden't received it yet. Then, he found out that it was delivered on the 12.

I would not give the buyer the benifit of the doubt though. There are a lot of people out there trying to get something for nothing.

Within 30 days of payment through paypal the buyer can get their money back on an item. So look out for that.

Sorry, no solutions just thoughts about both sides.

[jajaja]

Its kinda idiotic to try get the money back from the creditcard company. If its true that the mailman left the package outside his house (or something like that) he must take it up with him. You have proof that it was delivered.

You can call your creditcard company and ask what will happned if he really fill a claim.

[keiblerfan69]

Its not your problem. Package deliver so its out of your hands.

[Daria]

I don't think the date's fishy. I mean prehaps he only checked the delivery status after he noticed the package was "late" then realized someone else had picked it up.

Then again he could be lying, but I doubt it. Still not your problem.

[Flack]

Its not your problem. Package deliver so its out of your hands.
That gets my vote. I think the seller's responsibility is to get the item safely delivered to the buyer -- you did that. If someone stole it from him, or his dog ate it, or he spilled water on it later that day ... not your problem.

I wouldn't think the credit card company would do anything about it either -- what part of it is their fault? Unless they offer theft protection, I suppose.

[Steven]

Its not your problem. Package deliver so its out of your hands.
That gets my vote. I think the seller's responsibility is to get the item safely delivered to the buyer -- you did that. If someone stole it from him, or his dog ate it, or he spilled water on it later that day ... not your problem.

I wouldn't think the credit card company would do anything about it either -- what part of it is their fault? Unless they offer theft protection, I suppose.

I sent him an email.

I let him knew in that email that I got a DC #, it arrived at its destination; my obligation has been fulfilled.

I'm not going to refund him $50 -- and he has no case since I have the DC # showing that the game arrived. So if he complains to paypal, they will reach me and allow me a response, in which I would send them the DC # for proof of delivery. Then, they would drop the charges.

[Darth Sensei]

Steven, I agree with you that it should happen that way, but you never know with PP. I've heard of some very strange decisions in the past that violated their own rules.

[mezrabad]

It is possible he didn't know it had been delivered because the DC info may not have been updated. Regardless, it was delivered and from my point of view it looks like HIS Aerofighters got stolen, not yours. I feel bad for him, but it has nothing to do with you anymore.

On the other hand, if this guy were your brother or your best friend or someone you knew and trusted I'd say split the difference with him (i.e. refund him $25). But since he isn't and I didn't just fall off a turnip truck yesterday, I think there's only one thing for you to do and that's sending your heart-felt sympathies for his recent theft. He could call the police, or maybe ask his apartment to access the videotape security records to maybe "I.D. the perp".

... just my $.00002.

[smork]

It may not be a scam -- my neighborhood and post office are notorious for losing packages and mail. I've had a) netlix envelopes that I physically dropped off inside the post office that never made it b) a package that was shipped priority, tracked to the post office, and never made it any further c) 2 packages reported as "delivered" by USPS that nobody at my house ever saw (including my nephew's Christmas gift from my grandmothera few years ago). I just think there's some bad eggs around, both in my neighborhood and my post office.

That being said -- I can't see how any of that is your responsibility. If it's delivered, it's delivered. Personally, if I were expecting a delivery of a relatively expensive game like AF I would be checking the tracking daily (as a buyer), but that's just me. I think you've totally fulfilled your responsibility...

[jferio]

This is why I typically don't mail things this important out. I prefer to use a private service (like UPS or FedEx), and use the Insurance and Requires Signature items if necessary.

From what I've noticed, UPS and FedEx, while they don't deliver to PO Boxes, will at least make an effort. There's been a few times that something's shipped for the previous resident of my apartment, and they left the box at the complex office.

But then, I don't usually have a problem with the post office in my area, either. I haven't had anything lost that way yet.

[gum_drops]

This is why I typically don't mail things this important out. I prefer to use a private service (like UPS or FedEx), and use the Insurance and Requires Signature items if necessary.

From what I've noticed, UPS and FedEx, while they don't deliver to PO Boxes, will at least make an effort. There's been a few times that something's shipped for the previous resident of my apartment, and they left the box at the complex office.

But then, I don't usually have a problem with the post office in my area, either. I haven't had anything lost that way yet.

The annoying part is buyers can still claim the item was broken , not as described, or the wrong item was sent and still use a chargeback.

Then paypal freezes your funds, and you have to go into a dispute involving you and the cc company. Luckily I havent run into that yet.

Although, I did lose $25 due to someone in Brazil getting a reversal for no apparent reason, bye bye funds. International bidders with under 10 fb can no longer use PP on my auctions now.

And I have never had a USPS package lost, and I have sent probably 500+ packages. A CD-i light gun was delayed for a month in NJ once though X_x

[mills]

Guys, this has happened to me before, don't be so quick to judge. I live in a 5 story apartment building. I have pieces of my mail that were torn upon and thrown on the floor in the lobby. I've expected christmas cards from family members and never received them. I have also had packages that were taken out of the lobby by someone else that were adressed to me. Of course this person MAY be lying. But he also may be telling the truth. And the reason he didn't contact you sooner is because maybe he didn't know that it had arrived and was taken!

[MarioMania]

A CD-i light gun was delayed for a month in NJ once though X_x

I wonder why.because they though it was a gun

[Mark III]

If according to the tracking #, the package was delivered then it is very unlikely you have to worry about a paypal claim. I've never been able to get a refund through paypal if they have confirmation of delivery. Even when the seller sent one of my packages to the WRONG address paypal refused me a refund because the tracking # came up as "delivered". (to the wrong damn address).

[Steven]

Interesting development.

It must be legit.

I told him another option we could take is... I know a friend in my town selling AF for $27 (ironic huh?). Provided the buyer pays me $27 in advance, I will buy it and send it to him.

He told me price was not an issue and paypal'ed me $27 immediately.

Now I really believe him.

Who would pay $77 for 1 copy of AF?

Hmmm, then again, is it possible he received my original copy, and now wants the 2nd to sell for upwards to $47 and come away like he spent $30 on one copy of AF, essentially?

Oh whatever. At this point, I just want to do the right thing, get him a 2nd copy and that be that.

He said he also informed his people not to leave any more packages lying around, so he said it won't be a problem again in the future.

So there you have it. Thanks everybody.

-Steve

[MichaeltheGreat]

With the delivery confirmation number there isn't much that Paypal will do, but he can still initiate a chargeback which is often stacked in the buyer's interests (he could say he got a box of rocks and the credit card company would probably be on his side).

I personally use my wife's paypal account whenever possible with low feedback buyers and buyers I don't know well. She just has a reguar account and can't accept credit cards therefore I only have to deal with paypal's rules and delivery confirmation is enough.

[Ed Oscuro]

The way his initial email was worded I found his story quite convincing (note that he never asked you to refund the money, and said that he'd only take it up with the credit card company if it didn't impact you).

A shame some scumbag took it. He needs to go introduce his tire iron to the mailman's face, I think.

[Buyatari]

I sometimes go on buying sprees and forget what I ordered. I got a package via UPS. I tore it open like a kid at Christmas without reading the address. It was filled with Nazi memorbillia from someone on the same street but a good distance away. It was an expensive box of WWII nazi items and the tracking indicated it was delivered. Worse yet the paperwork inside indicated the buyers ebay screen name was something like "pureblood1010"

Yes, I did an eBay search and it was typical bread and butter for your average white supremacist.

So now I have a an expensive box of stuff that doesn;t belong to me but that belongs to some neo-nazi who lives on the same street.......great.

So we (me and the wife) waited till the coast was clear threw it on his porch and ran all the way home.

Therefore, I think its very possible he didn't get this item. But really thats not your concern. You shipped the item and provided tracking. IF he had a problem of some type in his appt building with this then thats even less reason to give a refund. A pre-existing condition, all he had to do was have you send it restricted so only he could sign for it.

[Buyatari]

If according to the tracking #, the package was delivered then it is very unlikely you have to worry about a paypal claim. I've never been able to get a refund through paypal if they have confirmation of delivery. Even when the seller sent one of my packages to the WRONG address paypal refused me a refund because the tracking # came up as "delivered". (to the wrong damn address).

In this case YES but read the small print.

If you send an item worth over $250 then not only do you have to send it to a confirmed address and not only do you have to have online tracking to that confimed address BUT you also have to have a signature reciept of the confirmed buyer and the confirmed buyer ONLY. If someone else signs for it (his twin, his wife,his mother,next door neighbor) thats not good enough even if you have online tracking to a confirmed address. Hows thats for some Bullshit !!

[Ed Oscuro]

It was filled with Nazi memorbillia from someone on the same street but a good distance away. It was an expensive box of WWII nazi items and the tracking indicated it was delivered. Worse yet the paperwork inside indicated the buyers ebay screen name was something like "pureblood1010"

Yes, I did an eBay search and it was typical bread and butter for your average white supremacist.
What an inspirational story. I woulda kept it, though. :D

[Buyatari]

It was several hundred dollars worth of items. The big dollar item by the invoice was an "Iron Cross" medal. What the hell am I gunna do with it? Wear it around the house in my pajamas siging the Nazi hymn or sell it on ebay and have him bid on it again?

I'm sure the buyer would look into it. The UPS driver might remember he dropped it off at the house that gets all the other packages on that street and then I'd be at war with some over the hill crazed neo-nazi WHO LIVES A FEW DOORS down over some items I never had any use for in the first place.

Besides my wife said no :)



It was filled with Nazi memorbillia from someone on the same street but a good distance away. It was an expensive box of WWII nazi items and the tracking indicated it was delivered. Worse yet the paperwork inside indicated the buyers ebay screen name was something like "pureblood1010"

Yes, I did an eBay search and it was typical bread and butter for your average white supremacist.
What an inspirational story. I woulda kept it, though. :D

[Ed Oscuro]

It was several hundred dollars worth of items. The big dollar item by the invoice was an "Iron Cross" medal. What the hell am I gunna do with it? Wear it around the house in my pajamas siging the Nazi hymn or sell it on ebay and have him bid on it again?
That's the HORST WESSEL LIED to you, UNTERMENSCH!!!

[nik]

I once paid about 90$ for 4 megaman SNES games, that never arrived. Regular mail, and the seller was on Atariage, had good rep, and mine is flawless as well over the course of 5 diffrent sites.

Nothing arrived and I was patient until 3 months had gone by and no games, he offered nothing to help just said "I can't do anything".

At the very least it would of been nice to receive at least half, or be offered it, I probably would of said don't worry about it, but I guess he really needed the money.

By now, he's received the games back.

So now, I look at it that he was a thief, no big deal, disapointing, but oh well. You were smart to get tracking, he won't end up thinking you are a thief since it was delivered, I only wish I had that luxury, kind of funny he's just starting to post here in the sale forum, even willing to send first to establish rep, but considering I am the only one to have a bad deal with this guy on Atariage, I'll let him be.

[Griking]

It was filled with Nazi memorbillia from someone on the same street but a good distance away. It was an expensive box of WWII nazi items and the tracking indicated it was delivered. Worse yet the paperwork inside indicated the buyers ebay screen name was something like "pureblood1010"

Yes, I did an eBay search and it was typical bread and butter for your average white supremacist.
What an inspirational story. I woulda kept it, though. :D

What a tool.

I would have re-packaged it and mailed it to his home (minus a return shipping address) with a note explaining that it was delivered to my home by mistake and I opened it thinking it wasm mine.

As for the original topic, the problem as I see it is that the seller threatened to take up the issue with his credit card company, not PayPal. So it doesn't really matter what PayPal's policy is, if Visa (or whoever) agrees with the buyer (which they do in many cases) they'll cancel the payment made to PayPal and who do you think they'll go to looking for their money?

[MachineGex]

Although, I did lose $25 due to someone in Brazil getting a reversal for no apparent reason, bye bye funds.
Brazil and Florida are the two places I refuse to deal with. Florida is filled with scammers(a lot of stolen CC) and Brazil just never gets the package.

[Niku-Sama]

this is why i suggest insurance for people's stuff

[Buyatari]

this is why i suggest insurance for people's stuff

Good luck trying to collect an insurance claim on an item not recieved when the PO has tracking saying he got it.

[Niku-Sama]

it gives you an out