Should the TurboDuo be considered it's own system?

[Anthony1]

The other day, I was thinking to myself what are my 5 favorite systems of all time. I was thinking about it for awhile, and I determined that I was going to put the Super Nintendo in the No.1 spot. For the No.2 spot, I was strongly considering going with the TurboDuo or TG-16 and CD combo.


But then I stopped. And I thought.....Wait a minute... Is the TurboDuo really a system? Or should it be considered seperately? For example, some people think the TurboDuo is clearly it's own system, but the fact is, it's very similar to the Genesis/Sega CD combo, yet nobody really considers the Genny/Sega CD combo it's own system. Nobody considers the Wondermega it's own system, do they? I mean, when we think about the Genesis and the Sega CD we think about them seperately. Well, what is the difference with the TurboDuo. The TurboDuo is essentially a TG-16 with a CD unit attatched. It's just a more convienent package, ala the Wondermega.


So, now I'm thinking that I can't rank the TurboDuo as it's own system. I either need to rank the TG-16 standalone or the CD unit without consideration of the hu card games. Or course the Turbo CD unit is so freaking strong just by itself, that it can hold that No.2 spot pretty damn well. I'm counting U.S. and Japanese games here, as well as both regular CD and Super CD. I'm not really counting the Arcade CD's in this. The only thing that sucks about this, is that I need to give the regular TG-16 base unit it's own ranking. Same thing with the Genny and Sega CD seperately.


Do you guys think I'm off my rockers, or do you think I'm correct in considering them seperately?

[c0ldb33r]

I've never thought of the Duo as its own system, but rather just a variant. Same thing with the Sega CDX.

It's a great variant though, that's seemed to surpass it's base unit in quality and reputation :D

[XYXZYZ]

Personally, I do. I mean, I never hear people refer to a Super CD ROM game as something for the "Turbografx CD attachment". Me, I say "Valis IV for the PC Engine Duo." I also hardly ever see people witht a Turbografx or PC Engine with a CD ROM drive hooked onto it. I only see Duos. And I remember EGM and other magazines back in the day refer to the hot new PC Engine titles in Japan as being for "The Duo", without mentioning "For "PC Engine + CD ROM unit + System Card 3" or whatever.

So for me, the hardware alternatives to the Duo are "out of sight, out of mind".

If I may slightly derail this topic, whatabout when people capitalize the name? I often see "PC Engine DUO", or "Turbo DUO". I think because that's the way the logo on the console looks. On mine it looks like "PC Engine DUO PC Engine with Super CD-ROM2".

[udisi]

I think the duo system itself is no different from a graphx w/cd attachment and system card, so no it's not a seperate system from that stand point. The only thing I don't like is that most people group the cd games and super cd games into the same library. They are 2 completly different creatures. You need either the system card or a turboduo to play the super cd's and thus I feel that in listing, the cd games should be seprated as it's own library and the turboduo games should be too. In that aspect the turboduo can be seen as it's own system.

[j_factor]

I lump them all together. Hucard, CD-ROM2, Super CD, and Arcade CD games. They're all for the same system, just with variations. Likewise, I consider Genesis, Sega CD, and 32x to be one big system.

I mean, a 32x game is just a Genesis game that requires the 32x attachment. Is that really any different from an N64 game that requires the expansion pack? Most people don't consider those separate from the rest of the N64 library, do they? Most people don't consider the Supercharger a separate system from the 2600, so why should Turbo CD be any different?

[fishsandwich]

I don't think this issue will ever be decided.

I think of the Sega CD as a separate platform with it's own unique library of games that needs a Genesis to run properly. Same for the 32x. If I'm calling them separate systems I'd have to call the TG-16 CD a separate system too.

The waters get muddy with the CDX and X'Eye and therefore the Duo.

Hell if I know. I'm worthless.

[c0ldb33r]

I mean, a 32x game is just a Genesis game that requires the 32x attachment. Is that really any different from an N64 game that requires the expansion pack?
That's a pretty good analogy.

[Masked Avenger]

Johnny Turbo acted as if the Turboduo was a brand new system...

http://sardius.team-coti.com/reviews/jturbo/jt2-4.jpg

[fishsandwich]

I mean, a 32x game is just a Genesis game that requires the 32x attachment. Is that really any different from an N64 game that requires the expansion pack?
That's a pretty good analogy.

Only two games (that I know of) REQUIRE the expansion pack to operate (Donkey Kong and the 2nd Zelda) and Perfect Dark has more stuff if you use the pack but still runs most of the main game. All three games were marketed as Nintendo 64 games. ALL of the 32x games require the 32x to run and were marketed as 32x games with the different colored band (yellow for 32x, red for Genny, blue for Sega CD.) I don't think it's a good analogy myself.

[exit]

I'm guessing in the next issue FEKA kills Johnny Turbo.

[Masked Avenger]

I'm guessing in the next issue FEKA kills Johnny Turbo.

They didn't have to.

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/7794/ugsturbo51hm.jpg

[c0ldb33r]

I mean, a 32x game is just a Genesis game that requires the 32x attachment. Is that really any different from an N64 game that requires the expansion pack?
That's a pretty good analogy.

Only two games (that I know of) REQUIRE the expansion pack to operate (Donkey Kong and the 2nd Zelda) and Perfect Dark has more stuff if you use the pack but still runs most of the main game. All three games were marketed as Nintendo 64 games. ALL of the 32x games require the 32x to run and were marketed as 32x games with the different colored band (yellow for 32x, red for Genny, blue for Sega CD.) I don't think it's a good analogy myself.
Yeah I didn't say it was perfect though LOL

[j_factor]

I mean, a 32x game is just a Genesis game that requires the 32x attachment. Is that really any different from an N64 game that requires the expansion pack?
That's a pretty good analogy.

Only two games (that I know of) REQUIRE the expansion pack to operate (Donkey Kong and the 2nd Zelda) and Perfect Dark has more stuff if you use the pack but still runs most of the main game. All three games were marketed as Nintendo 64 games. ALL of the 32x games require the 32x to run and were marketed as 32x games with the different colored band (yellow for 32x, red for Genny, blue for Sega CD.) I don't think it's a good analogy myself.

Ok, how about the EyeToy then? All the EyeToy games require the EyeToy... do you consider them separate from the "regular" PS2 library?

[6502]

Only two games (that I know of) REQUIRE the expansion pack to operate (Donkey Kong and the 2nd Zelda) and Perfect Dark has more stuff if you use the pack but still runs most of the main game.

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 also requires the expansion pack IIRC. Perfect Dark is significantly cut down without the pack (no single player game at all, the only thing you have without the pack is two player combat simulator and challenges).

This thread is somewhat silly. The Turbo/PC Engine is one system, from the HuCards all the way up to Arcade Card CD games. The N64 expansion pack analogy is actually pretty good since the main thing the various system cards added were additional memory.

[retroman]

think of it as a multimedia system...

[Anthony1]

This thread is somewhat silly. The Turbo/PC Engine is one system, from the HuCards all the way up to Arcade Card CD games. The N64 expansion pack analogy is actually pretty good since the main thing the various system cards added were additional memory.



Ummm, nope. You just can't say that. The TurboDuo isn't it's own system. It all started as the PC Engine/TG-16 and then the CD attatchment came out. And that's the way it was for a little while, and then the TurboDuo came out.


The analogy is the Wondermega, or JVC X'Eye, the only difference is that neither the Wondermega or X'Eye became a household name like the TurboDuo (relatively speaking).


You know damn well that you have to consider the Genesis/MegaDrive as it's own system. And with the Sega CD, those games have their own private flavor. Sure, you need a Genesis for the machine to work, but the Sega CD had a flavor all it's own. The Genesis has a flavor all it's own and the 32X has a flavor all it's own. You don't consider them all one big ass system. The same thing goes for the TurboDuo. As much as I wanted to rank the TurboDuo in the second spot, with the strength of all the U.S. TG-16 hu cards, the US cd games, the US Super CD games, the PC Engine hu cards, the PC Engine CD games, the PC Engine Super CD games and the Arcade CD games.


But let's get freaking real. No damn way I can pack that all together and call it a system. Shit, if I'm going that far, might as well throw the SuperGrafx in there as well, lol.


It's not it's own system. So if I choose TG-16 Super CD's, I have to choose it on the strength of the TG-16 Super CD's and nothing else. Otherwise, it's not fair. Each system must be considered seperately. For example, the Jaguar CD would be considered seperately, and one would only consider the CD software. I know it sounds kind of dumb to think of it like this, but to have a even footing for systems to be ranked, I have to think of it like this.

[6502]

I know it sounds kind of dumb to think of it like this

I'm glad we could agree on something. :)

[Melf]

II think of the Sega CD as a separate platform with it's own unique library of games that needs a Genesis to run properly. Same for the 32x. If I'm calling them separate systems I'd have to call the TG-16 CD a separate system too.

Thing is, both the Sega CD and 32X need the Genesis to work at all. There's no way around it. Also, I'd say it's safe to not classify either as separate consoles, as Sega itself considered them both to be only add-ons.

Since the Duo really only unites all the different aspects of the Turbo/CD into handy unit, it's not really a separate console. Would you consider a TV/VCR combo to be a separate type of electronic device altogether?

[Anthony1]

I will say this, it's one thing to group all the CD games together, the various CD games or Super CD or even Arcade cd games, etc, etc. It's one thing to group all of those together, but to add the Hu card factor too?


Nobody would ever consider the Genesis + Sega CD combo as it's own seperate system, and the same should go for the whole NEC thing.

I can allow the grouping of all the various CD based games, but I can't allow Hu cards to be added to the mix too. That's a whole seperate system. The TurboGrafx-16/PC Engine. Sure, it's nice and convienent that the TurboDuo exists, it makes it very convienent, but it isn't it's own system. It's a repackaging of a system and a key add on. The system should be judged seperately, and the key add on should be judged seperately.


Of course, I could be totally wrong with this, and way off my rocker with this, but it's just my personal opinion.

[GarrettCRW]

Johnny Turbo acted as if the Turboduo was a brand new system...

http://sardius.team-coti.com/reviews/jturbo/jt2-4.jpg

If Joe ever goes insane, that's what he'll become.

(Seriously, there's an odd similarity in how they look.)

[fishsandwich]

Only two games (that I know of) REQUIRE the expansion pack to operate (Donkey Kong and the 2nd Zelda) and Perfect Dark has more stuff if you use the pack but still runs most of the main game.

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 also requires the expansion pack IIRC. Perfect Dark is significantly cut down without the pack (no single player game at all, the only thing you have without the pack is two player combat simulator and challenges).

Now, now. Let's not go spreading misinformation. Tony Hawk 2 was DESIGNED with the Expansion Pak in mind but it does not REQUIRE it. Anybody can plug in Tony Hawk 2 into their stock N64 and play it without any problems... the graphics just won't be as good. Look it up.

Perfect Dark does lose a lot without the expansiopn pak. I thought you could still play the single-player game and it seems that you are correct in stating that you can't play single-player Perfect Dark without the extra ram. But the game still runs without it. It's not like plugging a 32x game (or perhaps a Sega CD game?) into a stock Genesis and trying trying to play it.

Are we actually debating whether the N64 RAM pak qualifies as a separate console add-on like the Sega CD or 32x? And the EYETOY for that matter? Seriously?

[udisi]

I'd like to think that the eye to is more of a periferal (note my butchered spelling) eye toy game will run on a ps2, they are just not playable without the camera. so I totally think the eye toy games are just ps2 games that require a specialized controller so to speak. The N64 expansion pack is an interesting debate, but I feel those games that used it were packaged as N64 games, and thus are N64 games. though by saying that, I may have to back of my idea that turbo-CD and super CD games are different. really the system card/or say arcade card, enabled the cd unit to play those games, and really that isn't much different from the N64 expansion pack

[c0ldb33r]

It's not like plugging a 32x game (or perhaps a Sega CD game?) into a stock Genesis and trying trying to play it.
Ever try Knuckles Chaotix without the 32X? Most of the graphics still show up LOL I think just the main characters don't.

[idrougge]

I think the 32X definitely qualifies as its own system. Sure, it plugs into a Megadrive, but it only uses it as a host system. The CPU is entirely different. I also think that the MegaCD adds too much to the MD to be put in the same department as an Eyetoy. It doesn't add as much as a 32X, but nevertheless.

I think you must do a before-after comparison. The NeoGeo CD was not that different from a normal NeoGeo, so those systems could very well be lumped together, but the 32X just makes too big a difference.

[bangtango]

I'm guessing in the next issue FEKA kills Johnny Turbo.

They didn't have to.

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/7794/ugsturbo51hm.jpg

Why on earth would Johnny Turbo feel the need to do THAT? You'd think he would have been able to relax knowing all of the pressure was off. He could have easily sat around in his underwear eating Cheetos because his fight was over. Maybe call Sonic the Hedgehog and invite him over so they could say "No hard feelings" then shake hands and call it even LOL

[j_factor]

I still don't really see the reasoning behind splitting up the Turbografx into multiple systems. The bottom line to me is that it's all one big system. Different Turbografx games require an add-on or two, but to me, that doesn't qualify them as completely separate libraries worthy of completely separate distinction.

If you have a base TG16 system, then what you have is a unit that is limited to part of the system's library. It's like an old PC -- if you don't have the CD drive, you can't play the CD games. But people don't generally separate (old) floppy disk PC games from CD-ROM games. A PC game is a PC game; and a Turbografx game is a Turbografx game.

[6502]

Now, now. Let's not go spreading misinformation. Tony Hawk 2 was DESIGNED with the Expansion Pak in mind but it does not REQUIRE it. Anybody can plug in Tony Hawk 2 into their stock N64 and play it without any problems... the graphics just won't be as good. Look it up.

Perfect Dark does lose a lot without the expansiopn pak. I thought you could still play the single-player game and it seems that you are correct in stating that you can't play single-player Perfect Dark without the extra ram. But the game still runs without it. It's not like plugging a 32x game (or perhaps a Sega CD game?) into a stock Genesis and trying trying to play it.

Thanks for the correction. I couldn't remember if Tony Hawk 2 required the pack or not. I bought the pack early on and didn't worry about whether a game supported it or not (always was a sucker for peripherals, I'm a company's dream consumer when it comes to add-ons).

Perfect Dark is so cut down without the pack it's ridiculous. There was a little graphic on the back of the box that showed what you lost without the pack, and it basically came down to something like 2/3 of the game was missing without it. LOL I always thought it was a bit of a scam for Nintendo to release the game like that.

[Poofta!]

didnt the duo have special playability of certain disks?

anyway, when i say genesis as a top system, i automatically include the sega cd in that category, since theres really no other way you can play sega cd unless you have the genesis. i love the entire combination there...