DP Worst Games (Prototype Thread)

[Gapporin]

see last post by me for more info

[GrandAmChandler]

Gapporin: I sticky-fied this, just keep posting each set of 10 games here in this thread.

-GAC-

[MrSmiley381]

Maken X should not be on that list. It's a little clunky and amazingly difficult, but I feel the DP voters have made a mistake on this one.

The rest is OK, although I've found many Sigma Star Saga fans.

[Steven]

awesome to see this list rolling.

But Actraiser 2???

WOW.

[7th lutz]

awesome to see this list rolling.

But Actraiser 2???

WOW.
Actraiser 2 was a huge disapointment. The game was very hard and the control was the problem. What made the orginal so great and unique was taken away in 2. It was #18 on my list that sent to gappine.

[Gapporin]

see last post for more info

[Anexanhume]

Turok 2 doesn't belong on that list either. Just b/c everyone loved goldeneye , it doesn't make turok a bad game at all. It was technically advanced for its time, had good controls, interesting weapons and was fun to play.

This is all evidenced by an average 89% rating on gamerankings from all the major game reviewers.

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/199127.asp

[Dr. Morbis]

Dragon Warrior made it onto your "Worst of" list? :eek 2: WOW! Forget a bottom 100, I think there are probably 5000 video games out there that would get chosen over Dragon Warrior in my books.

To each his own I guess...

[Cryomancer]

When were these even voted on?

[Psycho Penguin]

DRAGON WARRIOR?!?

Did like 3 people vote and someone put this in their bottom 10?

[j_factor]

This list is pretty disappointing so far. These aren't really the worst games ever, this is more like a list of the most mediocre games ever. There have been far more than 100 games worse than all of the ones listed; games are sometimes released when they're literally incomplete, have game-destroying bugs, etc. Such games are far worse than a game you didn't like because its gameplay was dull.

There's gotta be at least 100 games like Drake of the 99 Dragons. Speaking of which, that game better make the list.

[RJ]

Aww, I kinda liked Rune: VW...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/review/R70695.html

[Jibbajaba]

This list is pretty disappointing so far. These aren't really the worst games ever, this is more like a list of the most mediocre games ever. There have been far more than 100 games worse than all of the ones listed; games are sometimes released when they're literally incomplete, have game-destroying bugs, etc. Such games are far worse than a game you didn't like because its gameplay was dull.

There's gotta be at least 100 games like Drake of the 99 Dragons. Speaking of which, that game better make the list.

Did you vote? Part of the problem is that only something like 7 people actually submitted a list, so if one person listed a game like Dragon Warrior in their top 10, then it would have enough points to appear towards the bottom of the overall list.

Don't complain about the games on the list when you didn't submit a list. Wasn't the thread asking for people to vote stickied for like 2-3 weeks???

Chris

[Hypnotuba]

Did you vote? Part of the problem is that only something like 7 people actually submitted a list,

Is that right? That's too bad. . .kind of makes the list a tiny bit less interesting (although I still greatly appreciate the time and effort to put it together.) It's still fun to check this list out. A lot more unpredictable than the Best 100 list.

A few of my picks have already made the list, I guess because nobody voted!



Don't complain about the games on the list when you didn't submit a list. Wasn't the thread asking for people to vote stickied for like 2-3 weeks???

Yes, I think voting was open for at least the entire month of June, so, there was plenty of time.

[Doom Gaze]

I find this list to be extremely nitpicky and dodging the games that are actually bad. I knew something was up when I saw games that were definitely of quality on the list, but once I saw Dragon Warrior, that was it.

Make your list, but this is no canon.

[BZero]

88. Forsaken 64 (N64)

Craig Majaski, Gaming Age: "The developers of Forsaken 64 have clearly played the PC hit Descent. This game so closely resembles the classic PC game that it could almost be mistaken as a sequel. Of course Forsaken 64 uses different weapons, better graphics, and a few other tricks to set itself apart from Descent, but in the end it's a serious case of déjà vu."
How does being similar to a good game make it a bad game? Wouldn't that just make it... another good game?

Also, it hurts my soul to see Summoner on this list. :bawling: That game had a story better than most, and my God, Lenele must be the best RPG city ever. If there truly were only 84 games worse than this game in the world, I'd be playing video games 24/7.

[mezrabad]

I'm shocked that Dragon Warrior, a game I've never played, could show up on a worst games list that I didn't vote for! @_@ I'm even more offended that a list, which I put no effort into making, doesn't match any of my expectations for it! @_@ I'm also annoyed that there are events which I did not attend that I didn't enjoy, as well as food I didn't eat that I couldn't taste! @_@

[7th lutz]

I find this list to be extremely nitpicky and dodging the games that are actually bad. I knew something was up when I saw games that were definitely of quality on the list, but once I saw Dragon Warrior, that was it.

Make your list, but this is no canon.

To be fair, people don't pick games they never owned or played to be on a list like this. People do avoid true bad games they read the game reviews like Rise of the Robots, or the game is so rare that many people don't have a chance to own it.

I agree with your thought on Dragon Warrior though. As a voter, I was shocked to see Dragon Warrior on here. The only reason is if the voters picked that game was because they didn't play that game as their first rpg.

[turbosage]

Wow first Acraiser 2, then Dragon Warrior!

I'm shocked that someone would put those games in a worst 100 games list.

Its a shame I didn't sign up sooner, cause theres 1000's of games I could think of worse than Dragon Warrior.

I wonder if a Zelda game will make the list...well at least the CDi ones...LOL


TurboSage

[Jibbajaba]

I'm shocked that Dragon Warrior, a game I've never played, could show up on a worst games list that I didn't vote for! @_@ I'm even more offended that a list, which I put no effort into making, doesn't match any of my expectations for it! @_@ I'm also annoyed that there are events which I did not attend that I didn't enjoy, as well as food I didn't eat that I couldn't taste! @_@

LOL Thank you.

And like I said, I am willing to bet that Dragon Warrior made one persons top 10 list or something, thus giving it enough points to appear on the overall list.

Chris

[Kid Ice]

Did you vote?

That's the bottom line as far as I'm concerned. The thread was stickied for a while. It's perfectly alright to ask "why is game x
on the list" and stage a defense. What's not alright is the "this list sucks" business. Everyone had a chance to participate. I think Gapporin is doing a great job with the format.

And if you think you're dissatisfied now, fasten your seatbelts. There is a game in the top ten that will shock you.

Having said all that, this seems to be an opportune moment to provide my disclaimer...I didn't vote and I wrote a few blurbs for games that I actually like. Devil's advocate here.

[BZero]

Everyone had a chance to participate.
Except those who signed up just recently. And if you can't complain about something you didn't make yourself, how can this list even exist in the first place? It makes more sense to complain about something others did than something you did yourself, doesn't it?


And if you think you're dissatisfied now, fasten your seatbelts. There is a game in the top ten that will shock you.
Probably FFVII. LOL

Nak, j/k, I think this community is more mature than to have jumped on the anti-FFVII bandwagon. I'm guessing... Chrono Cross? Meh, I don't know.

[FantasiaWHT]

I think "Top 100 Biggest disappointments" would be a lot more likely to generate an interesting list than worst games. I didn't think I could contribute anything to "worst games" because I have intentionally tried to NOT play the worst games, so I'd be voting based on hearsay.

[starsoldier1]

Dragon Warrior doesn't belong here! It's old but it was very innovative for it's day and it helped to get the Role Playing genre started. This worst 100 list is very disappointing so far.

[Gapporin]

Alright, let me level with you guys.

Yes, this list seems a bit uneven in places. But why is that? It's only because a handful of people voted out of this entire DP populace. Now if you'd like, since we have everyone's attention, we can throw this list out, start from scratch again, and re-cast the ballots. However, I'd need a lot of people to vote, because I'm not going to rewrite this whole thing based on one or two more people's opinions.

If you'd like to participate, just PM me your list of top 25 worst games. I'll put the countdown on hiatus for a few days to see if many people respond. If so, I'll start the countdown over.

If not, we'll just keep on truckin'.

[mezrabad]

Everyone had a chance to participate.
Except those who signed up just recently. And if you can't complain about something you didn't make yourself, how can this list even exist in the first place? It makes more sense to complain about something others did than something you did yourself, doesn't it?



You miss the point. It is okay to complain about games because they were made with the expectation that people would want to pay to play them. When they are very bad games it seems hard to believe that people were expected to pay for them.

The list was done for free and for everyone's fun, so complaining about it is a little rude if one didn't contribute. I say "a little" because the comments really have been quite tame.

Anyway, if we want to see Dragon Warrior off the list, I guess we'll all have to come up with 25 games that we didn't like.

Of course, I never saw the guidelines, how far back can we go with this? The RCA Studio II library could easily be the worst of the worst, even in the context of their release era.

There's really a paradox here. People tend to avoid bad games, so what most lists will consist of will be possibly good games that were recommended to them by others that they ended up just not finding to their taste. In short, this may lead to a list of games that are mediocre or merely dissappointing to some depending on how many people vote. That means if someone was just peaved about so many other people liking a game that they didn't (say, Ico, for instance) there will be a lot of room for disagreement.

Frankly, that's just thinking about it too much.

Just make a list.

Mine is going to be mostly RCA Studio II and Channel F titles.

[jajaja]

lol before i clicked it i thought about Predator and i see it here LOL No big suprise tho hehe. I got this game yesterday. Damn, i couldnt even make it past the the first level. When you start you can drop down to another platform to get the grenades, but you have to blow up some wall to get further. I didnt manage to blow up all blocks so i couldnt get past it. And why cant you hit when your sitting down?

[scooby105]

how many people did vote for these lists in total?

[The Plucky Little Ninja]

A worst of list is pretty damn hard to do for all the reasons that have been mentioned. Plus the crappy older games are going to be at a disadvantage since few members of the younger crowd have had a lot of experience with some of the horsesh!t VCS and Fairchild games out there.

I have no right to bitch since I didn't vote, but Dragon Warrior? Your momma done brought you up wrong!

I'm PM'ing a list tonight.

[The Plucky Little Ninja]

Double post... :embarrassed:

[Jibbajaba]

Alright, let me level with you guys.

Yes, this list seems a bit uneven in places. But why is that? It's only because a handful of people voted out of this entire DP populace. Now if you'd like, since we have everyone's attention, we can throw this list out, start from scratch again, and re-cast the ballots. However, I'd need a lot of people to vote, because I'm not going to rewrite this whole thing based on one or two more people's opinions.

If you'd like to participate, just PM me your list of top 25 worst games. I'll put the countdown on hiatus for a few days to see if many people respond. If so, I'll start the countdown over.

If not, we'll just keep on truckin'.

I would seriously encourage people to take up Mr. Jared on his offer. This list could be every bit as interesting (and perhaps moreso) as the top 100 list, but people need to vote.

And to whoever made the comment about a "top 100 most disappointing games", thats sort of how I vote. If I game gets hyped up like a mofo, but then is sorely disappointing when it is released, in my mind that game is a contender for a list like this. IF a game is TRULY bad, then you pay not have played it. Like someone said, I try to avoid crappy games, but I have certainly been disappointed by enough of them.

And Jared, I too will attempt to put together a new top 25 list.

Chris

[kainemaxwell]

Disappointed to see the first Dragon Warrior on the list. *shrug

[FantasiaWHT]

Yeah, but the first three disappointing games that come to my head are Crono Cross, Super Mario Sunshine, and FF VII, none of which I would ever consider to be worst games ever. I could be lame and submit 25 games I've read are bad (like Flinstone's Bowling or whatever on the PS1) but I don't feel that's honest either.

[neiisnotdead]

me too, i don't agree with dragon knight being listed
in the list. when it appeared it was a good nippon-style
rpg .

I'm sorry I joined too late to vote.

Anyway, one of the weirdest game I have ever played is
Xardion, horrid shooting for Super Famicom developed
by Asmik

[Daltone]

I'm sorry I joined too late to vote.

You can still vote!



Alright, let me level with you guys.

Yes, this list seems a bit uneven in places. But why is that? It's only because a handful of people voted out of this entire DP populace. Now if you'd like, since we have everyone's attention, we can throw this list out, start from scratch again, and re-cast the ballots. However, I'd need a lot of people to vote, because I'm not going to rewrite this whole thing based on one or two more people's opinions.

If you'd like to participate, just PM me your list of top 25 worst games. I'll put the countdown on hiatus for a few days to see if many people respond. If so, I'll start the countdown over.

If not, we'll just keep on truckin'.

I would seriously encourage people to take up Mr. Jared on his offer. This list could be every bit as interesting (and perhaps moreso) as the top 100 list, but people need to vote.

[FantasiaWHT]

neiisnotdead- just have to say great name and great avatar! Do you know how many hours I spent on PS2 trying to find a way to keep her alive?

[Jibbajaba]

I don't know if this will make a difference, but I will give 1000 to everyone who turns in a list of AT LEAST 10 games to Gapporin; until I run out of meseta, but I think I have kind of a lot.

Chris

[Aussie2B]

Shame to see Eternal Ring up there. I just recently picked that game up. Looks like another nice From Software King's Field style game to me. Those games are often hated, though, unfortunately. I wonder if any King's Field games or Shadow Tower made it higher up on the list.

I haven't been around Digital Press much lately, but this topic caught my eye and since voting is open again, I sent a list. Let's see if we can get a bunch more people to contribute so it doesn't take just one person's vote to get a game on the top 100.

[Gapporin]

I don't know if this will make a difference, but I will give 1000 to everyone who turns in a list of AT LEAST 10 games to Gapporin; until I run out of meseta, but I think I have kind of a lot.

Chris

Thanks, Jibba! We've already got 3 people who've sent in lists, thank you guys. I'll leave it open for a few more days, and have the cut-off point be Saturday at midnight. Afterwards, I'll send the list of participants over to Jibba.

[Ed Oscuro]

Okay, I am making a list.

HOWEVER, I strongly suggest that games which get more than a handful of votes be thrown out on principle LOL There'll be plenty of high-visibility games thrown into the pile without reason. Really, the CD-i Zelda games (well, at least the first two) are NOT the worst CD-i games.

Anyhow, I desperately want to see some of my picks make it onto the list, so here's a few games to think about:

Jim Power (various - SNES, Genesis, PC-Engine CD-ROM, maybe others)
Battle City (Namco, Famicom; dunno if this one belongs)
Route-16 Turbo (Sunsoft, Famicom)
Deliverance (Macintosh, just as bad as Sword of Sodan - maybe worse)
Super Glob (arc)
Survival Arts (arc)
TETSUO GAIDEN (CD-i)
Polybius (for being the stupidest game hoax ever!)

Also, I refuse to put any UPL or Data East games on the list, out of the principle of the thing. They're not THAT bad, anyway. Tao Taido, and any other game which AT LEAST has nice graphics, probably shouldn't be considered either. I mean, hey, we're being entertained, what more do you want?

Was thinking about the trendy choice - Legend of Success Joe (Neo Geo) - then played it a bit and found out it's really not THAT bad. It's still very bad, of course, but I dunno if it can in good faith go on my worst ever list :P We'll see.

On a more serious note, I think that hacks or terrible bootlegs (like Fit of Fighting or The History of Martial Arts, which are Art of Fighting and Fighter's History bootlegs, respectively) should be disqualified.

Jibba: Keep your meseta :P

[bangtango]

I already sent my list the first time around, which did not include Dragon Warrior. This thread implies that everything is being wiped clean. With all due respect, I shouldn't have to resend my list, of which I hardly remember the games/order, just because the majority of the users here ignored this thread/poll when it was up for what seemed like a month. I took the time to send it the first time around and see no reason to spend another 30-60 minutes doing it all over again, when I already did it once. My point being, save what has already come in and simply add to it. The same people who sent you lists saying Dragon Warrior sucked (which was not me) are just going to do it again, anyway. Why would their answers change all that much or anyone else's?

Sorry to sound abrasive, this isn't meant to criticize you. I just don't like the idea of what I sent, or other people sent, being discounted because nobody bothered taking this list seriously until some hard results started coming in.

[Gapporin]

I already sent my list the first time around, which did not include Dragon Warrior. This thread implies that everything is being wiped clean. With all due respect, I shouldn't have to resend my list, of which I hardly remember the games/order, just because the majority of the users here ignored this thread/poll when it was up for what seemed like a month. I took the time to send it the first time around and see no reason to spend another 30-60 minutes doing it all over again, when I already did it once. My point being, save what has already come in and simply add to it. The same people who sent you lists saying Dragon Warrior sucked (which was not me) are just going to do it again, anyway. Why would their answers change all that much or anyone else's?

Sorry to sound abrasive, this isn't meant to criticize you. I just don't like the idea of what I sent, or other people sent, being discounted because nobody bothered taking this list seriously until some hard results started coming in.

That's not the case at all. Everybody who voted the first time around will be also added to the new list that is currently being built. I'm not wiping everything clean, per se, just adding on to it. Hope this clears things up.

[BZero]

Sent my bottom ten list. That was hard. I was only able to think of a few games that were really, really bad that I've played enough to include on the list.

[bangtango]

I already sent my list the first time around, which did not include Dragon Warrior. This thread implies that everything is being wiped clean. With all due respect, I shouldn't have to resend my list, of which I hardly remember the games/order, just because the majority of the users here ignored this thread/poll when it was up for what seemed like a month. I took the time to send it the first time around and see no reason to spend another 30-60 minutes doing it all over again, when I already did it once. My point being, save what has already come in and simply add to it. The same people who sent you lists saying Dragon Warrior sucked (which was not me) are just going to do it again, anyway. Why would their answers change all that much or anyone else's?

Sorry to sound abrasive, this isn't meant to criticize you. I just don't like the idea of what I sent, or other people sent, being discounted because nobody bothered taking this list seriously until some hard results started coming in.

That's not the case at all. Everybody who voted the first time around will be also added to the new list that is currently being built. I'm not wiping everything clean, per se, just adding on to it. Hope this clears things up.

Ok, that's good to know. I was under the impression that people who helped make this list, however flawed a few choices might be, were being asked to resend. Thanks for clearing things up. That helps.

[Ed Oscuro]

I still want to know what we're doing to ensure that perfectly fine games like Turok 2 and Forsaken don't make the list.

If a game shows up multiple times across the lists delievered, all that's been proven is that the game is well-known.

Honestly, I think a different methodology should be used for determining what makes the cut than simply adding votes and ranking.

[Jibbajaba]

Honestly, I think a different methodology should be used for determining what makes the cut than simply adding votes and ranking.

@Bangtango: @_@ Calm down dude. You might have asked for clarification before burting a blood vessel like that.

And Ed, if you have an idea, I would certainly love to hear what it is just out of curiosity, though this is Gapp's show, not mine. I mean, if Turok makes the list, then maybe it just sucks as far as most people are concerned?

Chris

[scooterb23]

I like reopening the list to more entries...

Especially since I'm not sure if I actually sen in my list the first time through >_<

Gapp - if I forgot to send you my list, let me know...I'll get it in to you. And then people's fur will really fly (because I've played some game I think are just awful that many folks love).

[Ed Oscuro]

And Ed, if you have an idea, I would certainly love to hear what it is just out of curiosity, though this is Gapp's show, not mine.
There will certainly be some active commentary on what games should and shouldn't have made the list regardless of the outcome :D

I was thinking that people should add "negative votes," (signifying their desire that a game be struck from the "worst" list), after a rough list is compiled of the games mentioned and the number of times they appeared.

It's intended to work like this: let's say that two people on the forum think Halo qualified as one of "the worst games of all time," and upon compiling the list the voters said "hey, that's silly."

There should not be a limit to how many games a person can vote to have removed; we'll just have to rank it again. For example, if Halo makes that list, you can be fairly certain that a large number of people will put it on their "strike from the list" votes.

Turok would likely recieve fewer votes to be rehabilitated.

I would vote to remove both Halo and Turok (because I can vote to remove as many games as I want).

Other people would only vote to remove Halo.

Perhaps a few people would vote to remove Turok, but not Halo.

Now, there's a rough ranking forming here. We have determined that the majority of people think that the inclusion of Halo on the list is crappy, fewer people think that Turok shouldn't be considered one of the top 100 worst, and a few people are outliers who believe that Turok is better than Halo.

I'm no math whiz, so perhaps somebody has a better method for ranking, but I think it should work like this:

(number of votes to put a game on the list) - (number of votes to remove from the list) = ranking

The higher (postitive) the number, the worse the game's ranking. The lower (negative; also high in absolute values...) the number, the better the game's ranking.

So Halo would have a score something like -23 (meaning most people don't think it belongs) and Turok would have -10 (I hope that good!).

I know there are going to be complaints. "Hey, the top ranked games are ones nobody ever heard of!" If people play these games they'll be able to vote on them with a clear conscience.

Anyway, that is my humble (I hope) contribution to the thread (sorry for all the empty lines, trying to keep it readable).

[FantasiaWHT]

I'll try, I'll try :P

but a suggestion... you might want to scale the "Top X" to however many entries you get. 5 lists of 10 games shouldn't be a Top 50 list, for example. Like 20-25% of the total submitted games. That'll stop, or limit, games with single votes making it to the list. We'll all just complain about those games anyway heh.

[Jibbajaba]

And Ed, if you have an idea, I would certainly love to hear what it is just out of curiosity, though this is Gapp's show, not mine.
There will certainly be some active commentary on what games should and shouldn't have made the list regardless of the outcome :D

I was thinking that people should add "negative votes," (signifying their desire that a game be struck from the "worst" list), after a rough list is compiled of the games mentioned and the number of times they appeared.

It's intended to work like this: let's say that two people on the forum think Halo qualified as one of "the worst games of all time," and upon compiling the list the voters said "hey, that's silly."

There should not be a limit to how many games a person can vote to have removed; we'll just have to rank it again. For example, if Halo makes that list, you can be fairly certain that a large number of people will put it on their "strike from the list" votes.

Turok would likely recieve fewer votes to be rehabilitated.

I would vote to remove both Halo and Turok (because I can vote to remove as many games as I want).

Other people would only vote to remove Halo.

Perhaps a few people would vote to remove Turok, but not Halo.

Now, there's a rough ranking forming here. We have determined that the majority of people think that the inclusion of Halo on the list is crappy, fewer people think that Turok shouldn't be considered one of the top 100 worst, and a few people are outliers who believe that Turok is better than Halo.

I'm no math whiz, so perhaps somebody has a better method for ranking, but I think it should work like this:

(number of votes to put a game on the list) - (number of votes to remove from the list) = ranking

The higher (postitive) the number, the worse the game's ranking. The lower (negative; also high in absolute values...) the number, the better the game's ranking.

So Halo would have a score something like -23 (meaning most people don't think it belongs) and Turok would have -10 (I hope that good!).

I know there are going to be complaints. "Hey, the top ranked games are ones nobody ever heard of!" If people play these games they'll be able to vote on them with a clear conscience.

Anyway, that is my humble (I hope) contribution to the thread (sorry for all the empty lines, trying to keep it readable).

I have to say, I think that is a pretty good suggestion. We will have to see if Gapp is willing to do that much work, though I will certainly and humbly offer my assistance.

Chris

[Ed Oscuro]

I'll try, I'll try :P

but a suggestion... you might want to scale the "Top X" to however many entries you get. 5 lists of 10 games shouldn't be a Top 50 list, for example. Like 20-25% of the total submitted games. That'll stop, or limit, games with single votes making it to the list. We'll all just complain about those games anyway heh.
One of the nice possible results of this method is that it's already scaled; the lists simply broaden the field of possible entries. If you only get five lists of ten games (perish the thought), the worst games (best entries? LOL ) from that list will be ranked by people voting on these entries, and the best games will be pushed higher up the list (i.e. closer to 50th and redemption).

With this method, the more entries we get the broader the field of choices becomes. Out of this group everybody voting on the list will roughly rank the choices according to how bad (or good) DPers think the games are.

Setting the list up would be a cinch with a spreadsheet program and not much harder than the original method. For the initial (pre-voting) list, you simply do what you would in a system where you count the game choices and rank the "worst" games according to how many mentions they got: List every game mentioned on one axis, and then list the number of times each game was mentioned (you could do this easily by assigning every respondent a number in order of their votes so you don't need to type in their names, and find out how many times a game was mentioned by telling the spreadsheet to add up all the entries in the row. Simply move down the rows and enter a 1 every time that person adds a new vote; create a new entry on the Games axis - a new row - every time somebody mentions a game that hadn't been brought up before).

Voting would be even simpler: Take the previous result (with games on one axis, and voters on the other, and a first column with the totals we produced from the last step), and then mark a 1 in every row where that person put a "redeem" vote. Then add the inverse of the first column (the results from the original listing) to all the results of individual votes.

A note about setting up the spreadsheet...the columns should be labeled 1, 2, 3... etc., with the number representing a list maker or voter. To help prevent errors, and make it easy to check the spreadsheet, I'd take everybody's list upon recieving it and copy it to notepad, saving it as 1, 2, 3... etc. in the order it was recieved. For the voters, we'd start the count again (place all the text files from the list).

There's one final wrinkle - what about commentary? Commentary on the choices should not be provided when submitting a list or votes, but rather submitted to Gapporin (or whoever) when it's time for that list to appear on the front page. Just go through the list of people who submitted entries and ask them to write commentary. You could also easily put up short rebuttals by asking somebody who voted to strike the game from the list to comment.

I think that a list of entries should look like this (same for voting):

Psycho Cycle
Fandazzmor Legend Soldier
Game Genero - Episode 1
Wonder Mega, Wunderbraten
et cetera: the game

Note that there aren't any rankings. Again, I'm not a math whiz, but I think that confuses setting up the system (and would make it necessary to do all sorts of obscene stuff with numbers). Also, simply giving every list entry a 1 and every vote to rehab a 1 means that obscure games don't make the top list, so good games that unfortunately happen to be less well-known won't need to be rescued.

I know it seems wrong not to be able to shuffle your own deck. The answer is only to submit games you truly think are the worst, and not 50 games where you're trying to convince yourself to feel that game #50 on your list is worthy of inclusion! If we have a bunch of smaller lists and vote on those to weed out the silly choices the result should be fine.

Now that I've said all that, I pledge to help in any way I can.

[BZero]

But wouldn't this "redeem vote" system require everyone to know the initial bottom 100 before it's supposed to be made public? That kinda ruins the fun, doesn't it?

[Gapporin]

Ok, first of all: Because of the obvious board problems, I'm extending the voting deadline to Midnight on Wednesday. Hopefully this will give more people time to submit.

Second: I have no idea what Ed just proposed. LOL Actually, I do understand what he's trying to get at, but it seems too confusing to try and weed out what people think is "bad" and "not bad".

Couldn't this have worked the other way, as well? When we were compiling the "best of" list, somebody could have said, "Hey, I don't think X game is all that great, it has to be removed." But we didn't work it out like that, we just added total votes. Granted, the worst games is a bit more arbitrary than the best, but it's still the same idea.

And I have to agree with BZero; using that method would mean to we would have to reveal our hand before the actual list is prepared, and that kind of defeats the purpose. So, I'm leaning against doing that at the moment, but if somebody can convince me otherwise, I might give it another thought.

[FantasiaWHT]

I think it would only work if you thought of the list as an ongoing and evolving project instead of a one-shot deal. Eventually after enough games had been voted on and off, the list would become fairly static and difficult to change and you could then stick a fork in it, but how long that would take would depend on how many people participate.

[Ed Oscuro]

But wouldn't this "redeem vote" system require everyone to know the initial bottom 100 before it's supposed to be made public? That kinda ruins the fun, doesn't it?
Well, I've explained the advantages before, but again the big points: it would increase participation, saves good games from making the top of the list just because they were hyped and a few people still have a burr up their butt about it, and it saves you from trying to combine different rankings (like 1-50 in one list and 1-7 in another) yet you end up with a ranking anyway.

If I need to explain it again I'd be happy to send you a PM; calling the second round of votes "rehabilitate" was kinda silly when I could've just said "remove" :D

Of course the SHMUPS forum does things differently; discussion here (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=7507&highlight=annual) and results (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=8662&highlight=annual); If they were to do a worst game list they potentially could do it in a similar fashion.


Couldn't this have worked the other way, as well? When we were compiling the "best of" list, somebody could have said, "Hey, I don't think X game is all that great, it has to be removed." But we didn't work it out like that, we just added total votes. Granted, the worst games is a bit more arbitrary than the best, but it's still the same idea.
Well, that's not really what's being proposed. I've explained the unique situation that happens when discussing worst games - you have fine games that people get angry about because they feel they were personally insulted or whatever by lower-than-expected quality, the ad campaign, or because it wasn't what they had come to expect (i.e. some people on the boards and Zelda: OoT).

And I didn't suggest making the second round of votes public; as you might recall the previous times on DP where people publicly lobbied to add or drop games from the "best" list things got a bit unpleasant. The first round just establishes what the pool is, and if somebody didn't add games in their list that's their problem.

If we don't use it here that's fine; I'll probably try it out somewhere else to see if it works. My only hope is that a better system than simply "add the votes" is used.

[poloplayr]

83. Dragon Warrior (NES)

http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Dragon_Warrior_NES_ScreenShot2.jpg

Gapporin: "Perhaps I'm spoiled on modern-day RPGs, but I don't find Dragon Warrior fun at all. Perhaps if I didn't walk so slow and have to have a seperate function to climb stairs, I could enjoy it."

*speechless*

[Hep038]

I am enjoying the original list, I hope we get to see that one before it is re-voted on. Well I enjoy watching DP members heads explode.

Just to be fair I think I will submit a lit by wednesday.

[blissfulnoise]

I didn't get a chance to send in a list, frankly, it's hard to distinguish between games that are:

- So bad they're awesome (Heroes of the Lance, Alf, Time Killers, and Captain Novalin come to mind immediately)

- Games that are bad because they fall into a shunned genre (see FMV games)

- Games that fail to live up to their hype (particularly bad with people coming in late to retro-gaming. The ONLY reason why Dragon Warrior would be on a Worst Games list)

- Games that are just bad ports of decent, if not great, games (Fatal Fury 2 on Genesis, Thunder Spirits on SNES)

- And games that are just awful (Rise of the Robots, Deathbots, and half of the GameBoy library).

I'm also turned off by lists like these that have excessive Japan only games that are lost in the language barrier. Zoids made the list because an English speaker didn't understand it? Seems bunk to me. You could make that argument for any game either side of the Atlantic.

I'd happily send in a list of 25 or even 50 games that could fall into one of the above categories to put before the masses and have them decided upon. But to put down the lists of a dozen people and publicly state that these are the games that suck is kind of pointless and will only incur ire.

If this was just one person ranting on a bunch of games, that's one thing, but the subject indicates that DP as a whole think these games stink, and before we condemn Sigma Star Saga to the realm of suckatude, I think we should be able to put in a second opinion.

[DragonMaster Sam]

Yeah, uh, what happened to this thread?

[fishsandwich]

I'll vote or submit choices or whatever... the list is silly and full of bad choices (good games) far and can only get worse. Let's get a new process going.

[Gapporin]

Uh, yeah, about that...

Because of my ...uh... lack of leadership as of late, I'm handing this project over to Jibbajaba. He's really wanting to see how this pans out, and apparently, he's going to use the Ed Oscuro Method(tm) to tally up the votes. So watch this space for more details!

[Ed Oscuro]

bump...didn't mean to cause a huge ruckus, but I thought that it'd be nice to save us another round of "I don't like the list" LOL

Anyway, I'll do whatever I can to help, as said before.

[googlefest1]

i tried to make a list the first time - but since i usualy find something good about every game it was too hard for me

even my most hated game of all time - rise of the robots has something redeeming for me

but as someone said before (i think) that if the list was top disapointing games then it would have been easier

i will just wait to see the outcome and reaction to this list this time around

[segarocks30]

The thing is, I've only played about 10 or less bad games...so it wouldn't be right for me to make a list.

[Jibbajaba]

bump...didn't mean to cause a huge ruckus, but I thought that it'd be nice to save us another round of "I don't like the list" LOL

Anyway, I'll do whatever I can to help, as said before.

Nah dude, you didn't cause a ruckus. I will use all of the lists submitted to create a starter list, and then people can vote to add or subtract games after the list is posted.

Chris

[Jibbajaba]

I am going to accept lists until Friday, and then I will tabulate the results over the weekend. All 1000 meseta bounties will be paid at that time, so you can still make out a list and collect some quick dough if you want.

Chris

[FaSCoRP]

I think Maken X for Dreamcast is not that bad.

And Turok Evolution is really worse than Turok 2 Seeds of Evil (period!)

[bangtango]

Time for some results!

[Gapporin]

Whew! What a long, strange trip it's been. Due to some behind-the-scenes stuff, I've become the leader of this project once more. Thanks guys, for holding on so long.

Due to the fact that this thread has taken...a different turn than was expected, I'm going to post the new results in a new thread. Mods, if you lock up this thread, that would be great. Thanks.