Which game was a bigger n64 FLOP

[dsullo]

Perfect Dark or Jet Force Gemini?

I personally like them both , but neither lived up to the hype.

[GENESISNES]

WTF?? Perfect dark is one of the best N64 games ever made!! well, in my opinion anyway.

I kinda hated Quest 64. Kinda Really hated it.

[jonjandran]

SUPERMAN , SUPERMAN , SUPERMAN

NUFF SAID :D

[Starcade]

Quest 64 fucking sucked hampster balls...PD was fantastic though..what are you talking about?

[Six Switch]

Yea Quest 64 did suck.And the main character in that game really sucked.Yea PD was great,how did it not live up to the hype? :roll:

[Charlie]

In terms of money-making disaster... both Conker's Bad Fur Day and Jet Force Gemini were huge flops for Rare, with Gemini being the biggest loss for the entire system and Bad Fur Day just barely behind it.

[dsullo]

Thanks Charlie I should of asked my question differently. I intended to say which game was a marketing flop. So you think Jet Force Gemini was the biggest marketing/financial loss and Conker Second.

Was Perfect Dark a big seller or financial failure?

[Charlie]

I would say with 90% certainty that Jet Force Gemini is the biggest money loser on the machine. Games like Superman, etc, were not as widely produced as that dust collector was. Conker's Bad Fur Day also bombed pretty big, although it was pretty acclaimed. Perfect Dark spent quite some time atop the sales charts, so I wouldn't say it was a bust. I know Banjo-Tooie and Donkey Kong 64 fizzled too.

[Atari7800]

This is a bit off the subject, but I picked up a complete copy of Daikatana for the N64 today and I must say... wow... this game really blows. This game was supposed to be rental-only, then went on to be a "budget title" for some odd reason. The PC game was shitty in its own right, but the N64 port is total crap.

Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine was a big flop... LucasArts poured tons of money into the game for the PC, PSX, and N64. The PC version went on to bargin-bin hell, the PSX game was cancelled completely, and the N64 game was made a rental and website-only title for Blockbuster. Oops. Not a bad game, really, with very nice graphics and Tomb Raider-style gameplay. Just a big money-loser all around.

You can still find Conkers in stores for $10... it's a great game, but it came out too late. I bought the damn thing for $50, but it was fun while it lasted. Then me a friend explored the multiplayer modes and really got my money's worth.

[Achika]

I'd say that Perfect Dark was successful, but way over produced.

[ashbourn]

Quest 64 was such a messed up pos and so was that kids snowboarding there were 2 of them i never liked it.

[udisi]

I think conker's was overproduced too, cause I thought it was a great game too...Perfect dark was even better than bond.

[Charlie]

Oh that's horse shit... Conker came out late... so what? Paper Mario came out less then a month before that and it was a huge sucsess, kiddie like apperence and everything. I think it boils down to people were sick and tired of Rare. I mean, look at the string of bombs they had. Donkey Kong 64 (which was over-produced big time), Banjo-Tooie, Jet Force Gemini, Conker... it's mind boggling how many duds (in terms of profit) they had IN A ROW... especially coming from a company with a pretty good track record.

Indiana Jones was a dud from the production side of things, but I don't think the actual loss was too bad. Certainly nowhere near as bad as Jet Force Gemini.

From Nintendo themselves, the biggest bust had to be Pokemon Snap. Great game (too short), but certainly over-produced.

[Anonymous]

Of all the games mentioned, Perfect Dark was by far the most overproduced. This game approaches ET for being grossly overestimated (ask anyone I've sent sealed perfect darks too just to fill the box). As for the rest, it's true they haven't been very successful, which is why Rare's purchase by Microsoft wasn't that big of a deal to Nintendo.

[Charlie]

I disagree with Fluke about Perfect Dark being the most over produced... it's up there, but I think Pokemon Snap is the most over-produced N64 game.

Overproduced N64 games. (in order)
1. Pokemon Snap
2. Perfect Dark
3. Conker's Bad Fur Day
4. Jet Force Gemini
5. NBA Courtside 1

Busts
1. Jet Force Gemini (don't remember where but I read somewhere that the totally loss was very close to $10 Million)
2. Conker's Bad Fur Day
3. Pokemon Stadium 2
4. Banjo-Tooie
5. Blast Corps

Again, I think it boils down to Rare, who had two decent SNES games and two decent N64 games, so all their games had a sort of buzz about them. But so does Treasure, only difference is their games weren't mass produced. On the N64, they had three games that turned in a profit (Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Banjo-Kazooie) but they easily lost over $100 million on the ones that flopped (Blast Corps, Donkey Kong 64, Banjo Tooie, Conker, Gemini).

Really, their games were almost done in cookie-cutter fasion... they had platform games which all pretty much played and felt the same, and they had first person shooters which... again... all looked and played the same. The only game that broke the mold was Blast Corps and it fizzled. It was a bankrupt company, and that's why Nintendo didn't put up a fight when Microsoft came along. Because the only license that Rare had that anyone cared about was Donkey Kong, and they couldn't keep that. So now the only valuable property they have is Perfect Dark and even that isn't a proven winner. Notice that the buzz on Kameo isn't exactly shaking the world or anything.

I honestly can't believe Microsoft bought them, but it does make sense. Microsoft is bleeding buckets from the X-Box and they needed to bring in a power-house developer so that they can actually (gasp) make a profit on it. But really, $375 million? Outrageous, I can't believe they paid that much for it. Nintendo is laughing to the bank with that one.

The situation is hilarious. The X-Box just passed the Gamecube as the #2 console in American and the machine still looks like it's going to be put out to the pasture before the Cube because Microsoft can't possibly profit from it due to lack of 1st party software. It's a hoot.

[Mayhem]

So would you say that the games in your "Bust" list Charlie, would be generally hard to find...? And hence possibly rare (excuse the pun) in the future? Curious... as I have 4 of them in my collection of 40 N64 titles and almost obtained the 5th at one point...

[kainemaxwell]

I wouldn't excatly blame Rare for the flops, i mean they really did pusht he N64 to the limits, in quality and in content like with DK64, Perfect Dark and Conker's, but the system really wasnt that big a hit like Nintendo expected it to be.

[GENESISNES]

w00t! blast corps is my favorite N64 game of all time!

[Nature Boy]

Oh that's horse shit... Conker came out late... so what? Paper Mario came out less then a month before that and it was a huge sucsess, kiddie like apperence and everything. I think it boils down to people were sick and tired of Rare. I mean, look at the string of bombs they had. Donkey Kong 64 (which was over-produced big time), Banjo-Tooie, Jet Force Gemini, Conker... it's mind boggling how many duds (in terms of profit) they had IN A ROW... especially coming from a company with a pretty good track record.

The problem I have with this is that the N64 is widely regarded as a 'kiddie machine' from the get go, and I find that as machines age they *all* become kiddie machines. Look at the PS1 now - all I see are (new) kiddie games lately it seems.

So of course an Adult game release late in it's life cycle isn't going to sell as much as a kiddie game on that platform. I bought CBFD even though I had my PS2, but that's because I'm an admitted fan of RARE. If it weren't for that I'd've spent the same money on a new PS2 game, no question.

From your arguments it sounds to me like they just overextended their means. At least, unlike ET, they didn't pay huge royalties for their license.

I also just have to add that I liked JFG. I admit I needed a guide to help me get through it though (it was definitely confusing to me at times). And I can see why it didn't sell. Why they produced so many in the first place is beyond me.

[Atari7800]

What are your sources for your numbers, Charlie? Speculation or fact?

[klimatron8]

Heya. thought I'd chime in here. What about Tony Hawk 3 as the biggest flop on the N64 (most produced vs less sold). Good game, but by the time it was released on the N64 -the system was dead. Nowadays there are new/sealed copies of that game everywhere I go. Makes you wonder why/who decided to even release the game on the N64. Otherwise I'd agree with Perfect Dark and Conker's as the next biggest "flops". Worst game I'd say maybe Aidyn Chronicles -yuck.

[digitalpress]

I disagree with Fluke about Perfect Dark being the most over produced... it's up there, but I think Pokemon Snap is the most over-produced N64 game.

You can disagree with him, but he works at Nintendo and has access to the facts first-hand.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

Gotta go with Hey You, PIkachu! Extremely expensive, lame voice abilities, and the day after Christmas went from $100 to $50. You can still find them at Walmart's for $10.

Personally, put off by Earthworm Jim. Came out at $70-$75 dollars, nothing special to the cartridge, and was another dull platformer/action game.

[Achika]

Gotta go with Hey You, PIkachu! Extremely expensive, lame voice abilities, and the day after Christmas went from $100 to $50. You can still find them at Walmart's for $10.

I was just going to post that. Does everyone think Hey You, Pikachu! was overproduced, or do you just find copies everywhere because no one wanted to pay the price tag for these? ($70-80 during the height of it)

[kainemaxwell]

I was just going to post that. Does everyone think Hey You, Pikachu! was overproduced, or do you just find copies everywhere because no one wanted to pay the price tag for these? ($70-80 during the height of it)
I think both really myself. The price tag was a bit heafy but sorta understandable with the voice stuff included and I think Nintendo bargined too much on the title being a big hit with the kiddies.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

I don't think the buying public understood what was involved with the game. Look at the poor reception to Seaman. Its an odd concept, and when you decide to charge almost double the normal price for it, Hey You, Pikachu! seems more like How Much, Pikachu!?!

Don't know if Tony Hawk 3 was its biggest flop just because it was release when the system was dead. I know from working with Gamestop the stores only received three or four copies of the title each, not like the umpteen number of Madden 2002's and Pokemon Puzzle Leagues and Pokemon Stadium 1 copies we have now.

Still have to go with Hey You, Pikachu. Misunderstood, mispriced, and now mistaken for Pokemon Stadium when spotted in Walmart.

[portnoyd]

Really, their games were almost done in cookie-cutter fasion... they had platform games which all pretty much played and felt the same, and they had first person shooters which... again... all looked and played the same. The only game that broke the mold was Blast Corps and it fizzled.

Great post, Charlie. Sums up my feelings as well, especially the cookie cutter part.

When you can sum up Banjo Tooie as Super Bajario Kazooie Kong 64, you know they need to innovate more.

To answer dsullo's question: definitely Jet Force. What a stinker and a half that was. From a marketing/selling standpoint, just as bad.

But I hated Perfect Dark. I enjoyed Goldeneye, but Perfect Dark just ate it. Blurry, blurry, dull, cookie cutter. Needing the expansion pack for 4 player hurt it bad.

dave

[TVs Hasselhoff]

don't know where you are coming from with Perfect Dark being bad. Supported bots for deathmatch if single player or multiplayer. Many FPS today don't support that. Deformable environments that remembered damage throughout game period. Numerous players on screen at one time with minimal slow-down (except during explosions). Much faster moving than Goldeneye. And expansion pack wasn't used for graphical enhancement, just multiplayer expansion, unlike other titles that required it to even just boot up the title.

Yeah, RARE did a bunch of platform games for N64, but what wasn't a platformer on a nintendo system. Thats what they're known for, and RARE was just following the lead. If Nintendo wanted something different, they should have said so. You wonder why RARE put nothing out for Nintendo during the Cube period, you try working for them. Nintendo is notorious for being difficult to work with.

Hell, you could even take Pokemon Snap and elevate it to an even higher dud level by tying it in with all those Snap Cabinets in Blockbuster trying to promote the game. You could play the game in a Blockbuster, or bring your memory card and print out your pictures of whatever Pokemon you photographed. Even with all that hype, Nintendo still couldn't move the damned game. And what happened to all those Blockbuster units?

Dave, I think you need to come to the realization that Marvel v Capcom isn't going to be Live Xbox and move past it. Its obviously affecting your judgement.

It is Dave, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

I was just going to post that. Does everyone think Hey You, Pikachu! was overproduced, or do you just find copies everywhere because no one wanted to pay the price tag for these? ($70-80 during the height of it)

I have no idea what Nintendo thought when they did this. Well, I do, but it wasn't very well thought out. Within a month or so of the game's release the MSRP officially dropped to 34.99, which generated a whirlwind of calls.

RE: Pokemon Snap, I think that game actually did fairly well. We got just as many calls on that game as we did on Donkey Kong64, which was (based on the number of calls we got on it) everywhere. As for the specific numbers, to be honest, I haven't checked the data at Nintendo, I just go by what people in marketing/sales/etc. tell me in the break room, and by trends in the calls we take. Rare games don't interest me that much (I never thought I'd say that!), so I never really bothered to ask about them.

Conker's Bad Fur Day, however, was MAJOR flop. probably as big a flop as Perfect Dark. The company had extremely high hopes for both games (PD was expected to do as well as if not better than goldeneye, and BFD was critically acclaimed), and in third-party land they did pretty well. In Nintendo land, however, the sales were abysmal.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

so are you saying sales were good for RARE and not Nintendo? How does that equate to a flop then? Just trying to figure out what standard we're going by.

I can understand Conkers. Great sales first week, but marketing a game through adult mags and tv commercials after 8pm, no surprise the game sold to exactly who they wanted it to sell to the first week (adults) then drop off after that.

Perfect Dark seemed to want a larger audience, but the M rating scared a lot of parents off. Not marketed as an adult title but giving it an adult rating can certainly leave your buying public confused. Still, great game. Even has the Goldeneye boards.

[kainemaxwell]

Those games were great quality titles, they just suffered from bad advertising and being release dlat ein the console's life.

Perfect Dark and Conker's are two my fav N64 games I play alot when I feel like it!

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I guess that was a little confusing. What I meant was for many third parties, sales of the game would be considered a success. For Nintendo, who is used to selling over a million games all the time, it was a less than stellar performance.

[Charlie]

Games that were flops aren't neccesarly rare, and in fact, likely aren't.

@Fluke: I wasn't denying that Snap sold a lot of copies. I was just saying that it was insanely overproduced. Go to any TRU and take a look at how many copies of it are unsold in the clearence bin. Who's stupid idea was it to produce nearly 5 million copies of that? Fluke, if you ever meet that person at Nintendo, slap him in the face, then kick him in the balls.

Conker's Bad Fur Day was a major flop, but, it did sell enough copies to soften the blow somewhat. But like I said, Jet Force Gemini simply didn't sell, period. That's why I beleive it was the #1 money loser.

Not as well known games that caused major money loss? Hmmmm... Mischief Makers bombed (although it was a great game, it simply didn't sell), Glover bombed huge, Beatle Adventure Racing unfortunantly was a huge bomb, WCW Mayhem both bombed and costed a ton of money to produce and license. Excitebike 64 had a really good first month and then fizzled big time, which is the case with 90% of the N64 'hits'. Hey You: Pikachu fizzled huge but wasn't nearly as widely produced as Pokemon Snap.

[kainemaxwell]

Was there anyhting wrong with JFG? I've played and once had Mischief Makers and loved it, even though the gameplay took a toll on my hands after a time. Cokers, Goldeneye and PD are still my fav carts I have. Those others listed I haven't played.

[digitalpress]

Was there anyhting wrong with JFG?

I rented Jet Force Gemini, really wanted to like it - it just seemed so ... HUGE.

But lo and behold, HUGE as it may have been, it simply wasn't any FUN. Someone mentioned "cookie cutter", and this title so perfectly fits that description. I wanted to like Donkey Kong 64 even more but it suffered from the same feeling... like "isn't this some other game that I played but with different graphics?".

If you played either then you probably know what I mean.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

Gotta agree with DP on that. I remember playing the game with him when it came out. Levels were huge, but sometimes you ended up just wandering around, shooting some bugs here and there, but not knowing, or caring what else to do.

Still want to pick up a copy for the collection, and maybe give it another chance, but it wasn't a fun game. If it picks up, it is after further play.

At least with Donkey Kong they made those neat Jungle consoles.

[Anonymous]

Excitebike 64's poor performance was by the most dissappointing market failure I'd ever experienced. It can't even garner the title sleeper hit, and yet

EXCITEBIKE64 IS ONE OF THE BEST MOTORCYCLE GAMES, AND RACING GAMES OUT THERE TODAY.

Sorry about the caps, but I think everyone should play this game, it is totally awesome. Everything about this game is fantastic, from the races to the tracks to the uphill climb to the soccer game, to the literally endless randomly generated desert. This game is incredible, everyone go out and buy it right now!

[kainemaxwell]

Was there anyhting wrong with JFG?

I rented Jet Force Gemini, really wanted to like it - it just seemed so ... HUGE.

But lo and behold, HUGE as it may have been, it simply wasn't any FUN. Someone mentioned "cookie cutter", and this title so perfectly fits that description. I wanted to like Donkey Kong 64 even more but it suffered from the same feeling... like "isn't this some other game that I played but with different graphics?".

If you played either then you probably know what I mean.
I felt that way playing DK64- felt like a rehashing of Mario 64 except with different characters and fun mini-games.

[MankeyMan]

Was there anyhting wrong with JFG?

I rented Jet Force Gemini, really wanted to like it - it just seemed so ... HUGE.

But lo and behold, HUGE as it may have been, it simply wasn't any FUN. Someone mentioned "cookie cutter", and this title so perfectly fits that description. I wanted to like Donkey Kong 64 even more but it suffered from the same feeling... like "isn't this some other game that I played but with different graphics?".

If you played either then you probably know what I mean.
I felt that way playing DK64- felt like a rehashing of Mario 64 except with different characters and fun mini-games.

No, Banjo(Rare), in my opinion has many similarities with Mario 64, but tried to vary the gameplay. DK64 was just Banjo with monkeys, and completely put me off buying CBFD, as I thought it would be the same thing. It turned out I was wrong about the last part though.

[Kid Fenris]

Put me down as one of the few who liked Jet Force Gemini. It was massive, the shooting elements were clever and set it apart from other Rare titles at the time, and I dug the cute-yet-twisted space cartoon atmosphere. Granted, the pinpoint aiming controls were frustrating and it may have been too big for its own good, but despite that, JFG remains one of my favorite N64 games.

[kainemaxwell]

Heck, Sin and Punishment should have been released in the US!