Beggar Prince compatibility issues with CDX and 32X

[dsullo]

Not sure if this is common knoweldge or not. I recently bought the Beggar Prince and while I commend the makers of this game for their efforts. The game is very well done.

I am a little disappointed to find out after purchasing it that the game does not save on a CDX. I emailed the makers of the game and for some reason they purposely made the game to only work on a Genesis and Nomad. I checked the website and it does not specifically say that it will not work on the CDX.

Just wanted to make you guys aware of this.

[anagrama]

Yes, it's common knowledge (and is stated in the manual).

[fishsandwich]

It doesn't work on the X'Eye, either (again, common knowledge.)

I wonder why the Beggar Prince website has never been updated to disclose these common knowledge compatibility issues that have been known for months...

:?



Yes, it's common knowledge (and is stated in the manual).

Wait... it's in the manual? Really? The compatibility issue isn't mentioned on the website (before you order) but it's disclosed in the manual? The manual you get AFTER you've paid and gotten your game?

Wow.

[sega-trader]

32X incompatibility is mentioned in the manual, but I believe X'Eye and CDX incompatibility is not. This really should be on there website since it was pointed out to Super Fighter Team months ago.

[norkusa]

Damn, I knew it wouldn't work on the LaserActive but didn't know about the CDX. That really sucks since those are the only 2 Genesis systems I own. Was thinking about ordering a copy but I think I'll pass now.

Hopefully the ROM will get dumped so I'll at least be able to play it on my PSP. :/

[exit]

Hopefully the ROM will get dumped so I'll at least be able to play it on my PSP. :/

Don't let them catch you saying that! They'll scold you and call you a stupid teenage pirate.

[CMA Death Adder]

Hopefully the ROM will get dumped so I'll at least be able to play it on my PSP. :/

A ROM dump won't do anybody any good, as Beggar Prince has been developed not to function in any known emulator.

[Jibbajaba]

Hopefully the ROM will get dumped so I'll at least be able to play it on my PSP. :/

A ROM dump won't do anybody any good, as Beggar Prince has been developed not to function in any known emulator.

Apparently it has been developed not to function in a lot of known Sega hardware as well. ;)

And as much as I hate to "fan the flames", why is it that this is not stated on the product's web site? If someone like Norkusa buys the game and then finds that he has no hardware that will run it, is it your policy to offer a refund including shipping for the product?

Chris

[fishsandwich]

Hopefully the ROM will get dumped so I'll at least be able to play it on my PSP. :/

A ROM dump won't do anybody any good, as Beggar Prince has been developed not to function in any known emulator.

Are you EVER planning on warning possible buyers who visit your site about the game's incompatabilities with the CDX, X'Eye, and Laseractive? If not, why? I imagine a fair number of hardcore Genesis fans (you know, the ones most interested in this game) might own at least one of these three variants and use it as their primary console. I've got an X'Eye myself and I'd love to play the copy I bought months ago but I don't have a spare Genny lying around. It's frustrating.

Anyone?

[CMA Death Adder]

Apparently it has been developed not to function in a lot of known Sega hardware as well. ;)

Companies in Taiwan weren't (and still aren't) allowed to acquire licenses from Sega. Thus, they had no access to professional development tools or documentation and had to learn everything on their own, through trial and error. Their methods for coding saved game routines were suited to the rest of their code, and in some cases used as protection (since the piracy rate in Taiwan is completely insane).

In addition, the 32X and SegaCD (and similar products) didn't exist in Taiwan - how could developers ensure their games would work on systems they didn't even know about?

We at Super Fighter Team did our best possible work with the Beggar Prince product, but without help (aside from their permissions and moral support) from C&E, we were not able to re-develop the game's save function to work with the 32X and SegaCD.


why is it that this is not stated on the product's web site?

The Beggar Prince website clearly states: Beggar Prince will play in any Sega Genesis, Megadrive or Nomad system regardless of region.

32X and SegaCD are seperate products from the afforementioned, as are the JVC X'Eye and Pioneer Laseractive.

This compatibility issue has been under study for quite some time; we haven't just "given up" on it. If and when we are able to work up a viable solution, we will share that solution both with the community and directly with those whom it has concerned. For now, however, the game will only function with save support on standard Genesis, Megadrive and Nomad systems, as well as MOST compatibles.


If someone like Norkusa buys the game and then finds that he has no hardware that will run it, is it your policy to offer a refund including shipping for the product?

Any customer who has written to me directly to express incompatibility issues with his or her hardware is certainly eligible for a refund, depending on the circumstance. Thus far only four customers have reported it. Of those four, zero have been interested in a refund.

[kainemaxwell]

Talk about a bad business practice...

:(

[Jibbajaba]

Apparently it has been developed not to function in a lot of known Sega hardware as well. ;)

Companies in Taiwan weren't (and still aren't) allowed to acquire licenses from Sega. Thus, they had no access to professional development tools or documentation and had to learn everything on their own, through trial and error. Their methods for coding saved game routines were suited to the rest of their code, and in some cases used as protection (since the piracy rate in Taiwan is completely insane).

In addition, the 32X and SegaCD (and similar products) didn't exist in Taiwan - how could developers ensure their games would work on systems they didn't even know about?

We at Super Fighter Team did our best possible work with the Beggar Prince product, but without help (aside from their permissions and moral support) from C&E, we were not able to re-develop the game's save function to work with the 32X and SegaCD.

I was joking around.



why is it that this is not stated on the product's web site?

The Beggar Prince website clearly states:

Beggar Prince will play in any Sega Genesis, Megadrive or Nomad system regardless of region.

32X and SegaCD are seperate products from the afforementioned, as are the JVC X'Eye and Pioneer Laseractive.

Don't you think that's misleading? 32X and SegaCD units are not designed to play Sega Genesis cartridges, but the X-Eye and Laseractive are, and are not pirated or unlicensed pieces of hardware. I could understand your reasoning if we were talking about the Genesis equivalent of a Famiclone or something. Why not bang out a couple of sentences just quickly stating that the game won't work in a CDX, X-Eye, or Laseractive? It would take you 30 seconds.


This compatibility issue has been under study for quite some time; we haven't just "given up" on it. If and when we are able to work up a viable solution, we will share that solution both with the community and directly with those whom it has concerned. For now, however, the game will only function with save support on standard Genesis, Megadrive and Nomad systems, as well as MOST compatibles.

Well if you fix it, then you could just remove the disclaimer from your site.



If someone like Norkusa buys the game and then finds that he has no hardware that will run it, is it your policy to offer a refund including shipping for the product?

Any customer who has written to me directly to express incompatibility issues with his or her hardware is certainly eligible for a refund, depending on the circumstance.

Thank you for clarifying.

Look man, I think that you guys ported a great game, and it is great that you released a new Genesis title complete with packaging, so I am not here to knock you in any way. But the way you are handling the compatibility issues from a disclosure standpoint is not entirely forthright in my opinion, and should be changed to reflect the reality of the situation as it is now.

Chris

[CosmicMonkey]

The Beggar Prince website clearly states: Beggar Prince will play in any Sega Genesis, Megadrive or Nomad system regardless of region.

32X and SegaCD are seperate products from the afforementioned, as are the JVC X'Eye and Pioneer Laseractive.


I still can't understand why you haven't made this clear on your website. You're happy to admit to us lot here that the game won't play on a LaserActive, so why not make this clear on the website?

You may see the LA, WM/X'Eye and MM/CD-X as different products, but they still play MD/Genny games x_x Therefore a Wondermega is a 'Megadrive system' a 'MD-based variant' or a 'MD-compatible system', depending on how you look at it. Either way, they're still bloody Megadrives. So no, the game in NOT compatible with all MD/Genny systems.

[GizmoGC]

Is it that tough to add 'Not compatiable with 32x, Sega CD, X'eye, Laser InterActive, and CDX"? C'mon.

[suppafly]

Talk about a bad business practice...

:(

Talk about cry babies....is it too hard to get a $5 genesis?

you guys have it all too easy...

[VACRMH]

While I was dissapointed about the fact that it wouldn't work in my CDX, I can understand. I have a spare Genny somewhere anyways.

It would be nice if the website mentioned it though.

[nebrazca78]

why is it that this is not stated on the product's web site?

The Beggar Prince website clearly states: Beggar Prince will play in any Sega Genesis, Megadrive or Nomad system regardless of region.

32X and SegaCD are seperate products from the afforementioned, as are the JVC X'Eye and Pioneer Laseractive.

This compatibility issue has been under study for quite some time; we haven't just "given up" on it. If and when we are able to work up a viable solution, we will share that solution both with the community and directly with those whom it has concerned. For now, however, the game will only function with save support on standard Genesis, Megadrive and Nomad systems, as well as MOST compatibles.


The problem here is that you're playing the semantics game. If you fully disclosed everything, especially with the explanation as to why, very few people would be giving you a hard time.

BTW, aside from the CDX, X'eye, Laseractive and 32X, what are these "MOST" compatibles you're talking about? Clones? The Mega PC?

[theoakwoody]

how could it be compatible with the 32x? Man, I'm waiting till the 32x version comes out with full 3d turn based battles. LOL

[nebrazca78]

how could it be compatible with the 32x? Man, I'm waiting till the 32x version comes out with full 3d turn based battles. LOL

Almost all Genesis games are compatible with the 32X.

[dsullo]

I was never offered a refund. Here is the response from the makers of the game: If I was one of the few and they were all offered refunds, then where was that stated in the email from Brandon Cobb??


The save function of Beggar Prince was programmed in such a way as to make it incompatible with the 32X and the SegaCD (including the CDX system). I apologize for the inconvenience. Beggar Prince will play just fine in a CDX, but requires a standard Genesis, Megadrive or Nomad (or
most compatibles) to be able to save or load a game.

Your game cartridge came with sample saved games, that were added for testing purpose. When you play the game in a normal Genesis, Megadrive or Nomad, you will be able to access these saves via the "Continue" menu; using a CDX, they will not show up in the listing.

Please let me know if I can be of further help. Have a nice day.

--

- Brandon Cobb
President, Super Fighter Team - www.superfighter.com
"Never let dreams die!"

[dsullo]

Any customer who has written to me directly to express incompatibility issues with his or her hardware is certainly eligible for a refund, depending on the circumstance. Thus far only four customers have reported it. Of those four, zero have been interested in a refund.

Bull$hit - see my previous post. If I am one of the 4 , I was never offered a refund. I own a CDX only, not a genesis. I am not interested in setting up a genesis with the various systems I already have setup. If this was disclosed on the site clearly, I would not have bought the game. PLEASE UPDATE YOUR WEBSITE!

[kainemaxwell]

BTW, aside from the CDX, X'eye, Laseractive and 32X, what are these "MOST" compatibles you're talking about? Clones? The Mega PC?
Good question. Please explain and why don't you mention what exactly doesn't work on the website along with it being stated clearly in the manual?

Dsullo, that letter stinks. You should have been offered a refund if I'm reading all this right.

[j_factor]

I too was highly disappointed to find that my copy of Beggar Prince wouldn't save. In the manual it says to remove your 32x, so I did that, and it still wouldn't save. The manual says nothing about combo systems. I didn't find out about the compatibility thing until further after that, by asking on a forum.

I kinda feel like I was lied to. I pre-ordered the game with the knowledge that, "Beggar Prince will play in any Sega Genesis, Megadrive or Nomad system regardless of region." Yeah, it plays, but it's an RPG, so the save function is kind of important. While I don't really expect you guys to even test it on a LaserActive, Mega PC, Aiwa MD boombox, etc., the X'Eye and CDX are relatively commonplace among hardcore Genesis fans (the people likely to buy your game). I guess you could make a semantics argument about the X'Eye being a separate product, but the CDX certainly falls under "any Sega Genesis" -- it was made by Sega and it says "Genesis CDX" on it.

[suppafly]

You guys are the kind of people that discourage others to bring quality games to the market.

I wouldnt want to release any other game if i was CMA death adder...what a bunch of whiners!

[Kitsune Sniper]

A ROM dump won't do anybody any good, as Beggar Prince has been developed not to function in any known emulator.
Given enough time, any emulator can run those games. Yours included.

Hell, Haze from MAME has been developing his own Master System/Genesis emulator based on the MAME core, and it's running games no other emulator is capable of running - TAIWANESE PIRATES INCLUDED.

But what do I know roffles im juz a romkiddie lolzors LOL

[CosmicMonkey]

You guys are the kind of people that discourage others to bring quality games to the market.

I wouldnt want to release any other game if i was CMA death adder...what a bunch of whiners!

Personally imho, if he's gonna carry out these shady business practises that's a good thing, frankly.

All we're asking for is more info on the website. CMA DeathAdder knows the game doesn't save on certain MD variations. So why is this information not displayed on the website?

[kainemaxwell]

I'd ask for a refund.

[norkusa]

I totally agree that the seller should have been upfront about the compatibility, but is anyone REALLY going to return these once they find out they can't play it? With only 400-500 copies produced and no definite word of a reprint, these things will at AT LEAST go for double what you guys paid on Ebay.

Yeah, it sucks that you guys can't play them but it would be kinda stupid to return them for a refund now.

[Jibbajaba]

I absolutely agree. I am not in any way saying that the incompatibility issues with this game should persuade anyone to return it, or even to stop them from buying it. Considering how cheap Genesis hardware is, one could easily pick up a Genesis just to play this game.

What I find perplexing is not only the lack of disclosure concerning these incompaitibilites, but the sellers dodginess and stubborn attitude when confronted about said lack of disclosure (playing the semantics game.) Were I in his place, my attitude would be something along the lines of "yes, you are absolutely right. That information should be displayed on the product page, because it will save me the headache of dealing with unsatisfied customers down the line." But to each his own. It's his business, and I think it's fair to say that at this point, any member of DP who is considering purchasing this game knows of it's incompatibility issues due to discussions such as this one. Therefore I think it's probably pointless to continue to beat him over the head about it.

Chris

[exit]

A ROM dump won't do anybody any good, as Beggar Prince has been developed not to function in any known emulator.
Given enough time, any emulator can run those games. Yours included.

Seriously, if big game companies can't stop game pirates, what makes you guys any different? Man will your face be red when the game gets emulated.

[dsullo]

I asked for a refund. I will let you know what the response is.

[MarioMania]

Will it work on the Genesis 3

Is the screen black when you try it on the X'eye

[fishsandwich]

Is the screen black when you try it on the X'eye

Yeah, it's just black. No CD opening screen, no nothing. I've coaxed my X'Eye into playing Genny, Sega CD, 32x, and even Master System. Bah.

Still, I plan on keeping this fine-looking game, playing it one day, and buying their next release (if they have one. I hope they do.)

I just won't be playing it on the X'Eye.

[rbudrick]

Ok, so is it a hradware mod that needs to be done to the game or system, or is itsome lines of code that need to be changed? Is it asmall enough amount of code that a game genie or two could fix it?

-Rob

[norkusa]

I asked for a refund. I will let you know what the response is.

Hey dsullo, if they won't give you a refund, I'll buy it from ya. I totally forgot I had a NIB Nomad sitting in my closet, so I'd be able to play it.

[Damaramu]

Will it work on the Genesis 3

Yep. I'm playing my copy on one.

[CMA Death Adder]

I'd ask for a refund.

He just about did, but was able to find and acquire a Sega Nomad to play the game on. So, it would appear that he's now good to go.


Ok, so is it a hradware mod that needs to be done to the game or system, or is itsome lines of code that need to be changed?

Most likely, it is needing a complete rewrite of the save game function. That *might* have been possible if we had been able to have the original programmer of the game take a look at it, but sadly he wasn't available to help us. The Megadrive programmers we did have weren't able to find a work-around or "quick fix" and neither was I.


Is it asmall enough amount of code that a game genie or two could fix it?

No. If it were an easy problem, we would have certainly fixed it before release.


Hell, Haze from MAME has been developing his own Master System/Genesis emulator based on the MAME core, and it's running games no other emulator is capable of running - TAIWANESE PIRATES INCLUDED.

Yes, I've been following that... and I wish him luck with it. But, Taiwanese pirates aren't hard to get running at all. They usually only require a simple memory patch or two, or some slick code trick... in the case of Beggar Prince, we weren't so blind.

But... why do you even care? I'm not trying to be arrogant about it; I'm simply telling people who hope to emulate Beggar Prince RIGHT NOW on their computer (or GP2X, or whatever) that it isn't currently possible - so, if they are heart set on playing it anytime soon, they are best off purchasing a copy. I'm not trying to laugh at them or insult them. I'm just telling it like it is.


Man will your face be red when the game gets emulated.

Not at all. We'll be long since SOLD OUT of Beggar Prince by the time that happens. Thus, our protection will have served its purpose - and then some.

[dsullo]

Here is the response (my questions are in BOLD) his replies are regular text.

Hello


I see on Digital Press Website you are offering a refund for people who can't play the game. Well I can't.


Yes, you and I recently discussed this incompatibility issue; I remember it quite well. I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help to you at the time.


Now you have forced me to go out and find a Genesis system, which in fact I don't really need, to play one game.

On the 18th, when you last e-mailed me about the situation, it seemed you were not against the idea of finding a Genesis system, mentioning you'd look for one at a tag sale. Never did the question of a refund come up. It appeared you were happy with our product, and looking forward to playing it. Now, it seems the Digital Press community has changed your mind; the once minor inconvenience is now something so troublesome that you no longer look forward to playing and enjoying our product at all. You were all right with paying $46 for a new Genesis game, but the thought of paying $5 - $10 for a Genesis system is completely out of the question. Mob mentality can certainly be a powerful tool.


I used paypal

Please make it clear what you would like me to do for you. Are you asking for a refund?

[kainemaxwell]

You asked for a refund on your product. I don't see what the difficulty in that is.

[Daria]

Just edit the website already.

[RCM]

I truly hope this doesn't courage CMA DA from bringing other Genny titles out...could you do a shooter next?

I'm a fan of respectfully spoon feeding consumers essential information in order to avoid problems such as this.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Hell, Haze from MAME has been developing his own Master System/Genesis emulator based on the MAME core, and it's running games no other emulator is capable of running - TAIWANESE PIRATES INCLUDED.

Yes, I've been following that... and I wish him luck with it. But, Taiwanese pirates aren't hard to get running at all. They usually only require a simple memory patch or two, or some slick code trick... in the case of Beggar Prince, we weren't so blind.

But... why do you even care? I'm not trying to be arrogant about it; I'm simply telling people who hope to emulate Beggar Prince RIGHT NOW on their computer (or GP2X, or whatever) that it isn't currently possible - so, if they are heart set on playing it anytime soon, they are best off purchasing a copy. I'm not trying to laugh at them or insult them. I'm just telling it like it is.

So you -are- being arrogant. And you wonder why people don't like your attitude?

Your business is shady as hell. You're not notifying prospective buyers of several hardware incompatibilities. And the fact that you're reluctant to give out refunds, when the problem was caused by your game's programming? Well, that is more than enough for several people to avoid you outright.

Why do I even care? Maybe I care because I don't like seeing people ripped off.

[kainemaxwell]

Hell, Haze from MAME has been developing his own Master System/Genesis emulator based on the MAME core, and it's running games no other emulator is capable of running - TAIWANESE PIRATES INCLUDED.

Yes, I've been following that... and I wish him luck with it. But, Taiwanese pirates aren't hard to get running at all. They usually only require a simple memory patch or two, or some slick code trick... in the case of Beggar Prince, we weren't so blind.

But... why do you even care? I'm not trying to be arrogant about it; I'm simply telling people who hope to emulate Beggar Prince RIGHT NOW on their computer (or GP2X, or whatever) that it isn't currently possible - so, if they are heart set on playing it anytime soon, they are best off purchasing a copy. I'm not trying to laugh at them or insult them. I'm just telling it like it is.

So you -are- being arrogant. And you wonder why people don't like your attitude?

Your business is shady as hell. You're not notifying prospective buyers of several hardware incompatibilities. And the fact that you're reluctant to give out refunds, when the problem was caused by your game's programming? Well, that is more than enough for several people to avoid you outright.

Why do I even care? Maybe I care because I don't like seeing people ripped off.

Here, here! I was actually going to order a copy until this latest issue came up. It's usually good business practice to give your customers all the information as your product's being developed, like incompatibilities, etc, and when any other issues come up, supply your customers with that info. Customer isn't happy with product and wants a refund, you should give it and not weasel out of it.

[Doom Gaze]

A ROM dump won't do anybody any good, as Beggar Prince has been developed not to function in any known emulator.
Given enough time, any emulator can run those games. Yours included.

Hell, Haze from MAME has been developing his own Master System/Genesis emulator based on the MAME core, and it's running games no other emulator is capable of running - TAIWANESE PIRATES INCLUDED.

But what do I know roffles im juz a romkiddie lolzors LOL

lol sry 4 ur trubbles w/those noobs man ya m,an halo2 rulz cuz i kno cuz i played every nintendod gam in 5 seconds w/mah keyboard lol noobz who pray games on da real hardwaer im so leet w/mah rawmz lololol.

Does this game function with a Sega CD attached to the Genny? I'm not sure about this game until I know the spectrum of glitch problems.

[rbudrick]

I'd ask for a refund.

He just about did, but was able to find and acquire a Sega Nomad to play the game on. So, it would appear that he's now good to go.


Ok, so is it a hradware mod that needs to be done to the game or system, or is itsome lines of code that need to be changed?

Most likely, it is needing a complete rewrite of the save game function. That *might* have been possible if we had been able to have the original programmer of the game take a look at it, but sadly he wasn't available to help us. The Megadrive programmers we did have weren't able to find a work-around or "quick fix" and neither was I.


Is it asmall enough amount of code that a game genie or two could fix it?

No. If it were an easy problem, we would have certainly fixed it before release.

Ok, so it's the software, interesting. Any idea why the other hardware that it doesn't work on is so different that the save won't work? I mean, you knew enough to get it working on the systems it does work on...I never knew there were any major functional differences with those systems. Why did it work on those systems?

-Rob