Could the Dreamcast have handled GTA III?

[c0ldb33r]

I was reading an issue of ODCM in the bathroom this morning and read a preview of GTA 2 for the Dreamcast. I wasn't overly impressed with the graphics. Here's a screencap of GTA 2 for DC.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6035/ssdcgta21lx7.th.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssdcgta21lx7.jpg)

So that got me thinking. Could the Dreamcast have handled GTA III? GTA III really defined the series. It brought it into the next generation. Could the Dreamcast have been the console to start it?

Here's a screencap of GTA III for PS2
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1720/ssgta33pb3.th.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssgta33pb3.jpg)

And here's a screencap of Shenmue for DC
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8417/amedshen22dv2.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amedshen22dv2.jpg)

So, I dunno. Could the Dreamcast have handled it? I vote yes because the graphics don't look that different. And both games have huge worlds to explore - so the DC could definately handle the size and open nature of GTA III.

So, I vote yes, the DC could have been the home of the GTA 3D revolution. :D

[Kid Ice]

Shenmue had far superior graphics to GTA3. But I'm not sure it's a valid comparison as the gameplay styles are so different. Still I see no reason we couldn't have had GTA3 on the DC.

[AMG]

I believe the Dreamcast could handle GTA3 (even with some minor corners cut). The poly count isn't very high in GTA3 (as the game sacrifices detail for sheer size), so there is a good chance the DC could deal with the graphics. The Radio might need to be trimmed down some to fit on the GD ROM as apposed to the DVD format the game appears on originally.

Overall I think the Dreamcast would have made a nice home for GTA3. 8-)

[ProgrammingAce]

The dreamcast could have ran GTA3, there's even talk that it was in development (which rockstar has always denied).

There would have been more loading and less detailed textures, but it's doable in a playable form.

[diskoboy]

I definitely think so.

They'd probably leave a few songs off of the soundtrack, or axe one of the radio stations, all together.

I'm more curious to see if the DC could pull of Vice City since it was a bit larger, and had a bigger sdtk.

[MrRoboto19XX]

I think the DC could handle GTA III no problem. Like said previously, the game didnt have too high a poly count. The only problem I think they may have had would have been all the space for voice acting, but what do I know.

Oh how these debates used to rage on the DC message boards circa 2002. Those poor bitter sega fanboys...

[roushimsx]

I doubt it. It had half the memory of the PS2 so you would have to sacrifice yet more texture detail, the view distance would have been shorter (you think disappearing cars was a problem in Vice City? Imagine what it would have been like on the DC), and the city would have to be broken up into much smaller zones.

Headhunter is a much better comparison than Shenmue, mainly because the structures are more closely related (well ok, they're still very different games) and they actually use the same engine. Shenmue's enviornments are damned TINY (each zone is just a small part of a street compared to each zone in GTA3 being a third of a city).

But yea, apples meet oranges. Oranges, meet apples.

[Ed Oscuro]

I doubt it. It had half the memory of the PS2 so you would have to sacrifice yet more texture detail, the view distance would have been shorter (you think disappearing cars was a problem in Vice City?
Possibly. It's really hard to judge; the DC apparently had a few features better than the PS2, but nothing that could make up for the lack of RAM.

So yeah, it'd be doable, but would you trade in your PS2 (or Xbox) version for it?

[mezrabad]

So yeah, it'd be doable, but would you trade in your PS2 (or Xbox) version for it?

That's a really good point. Supposedly the Saturn was able to run a version of Shenmue but thankfully we got it on Dreamcast. Dreamcast may have been able to run a game like GTAIII but thankfully we got it on PS2/XBox where it's probably nicer than it would've been on DC.

Still. I love my DC. :( Why'd it have to die? Why???? *sob*

I not only mourn the DC I mourn what might've been the "DC 2" we'll never know.

[Cryomancer]

I'd say it COULD.

but...GTA is a PC game :D

[Neo Rasa]

The Dreamcast definitely could handle it. It could probably run at the same stability with higher resolution textures than what's on the PS2 version (as opposed to the XBox/PC release), but have more slowdown (real slowdown, not framerate choppiness) and some pretty epic load times.

[Richter Belmount]

imagine it if had actually been released on dc probably could of lived

[jajaja]

Hardware wise maybe, but the GD-discs can only store upto 1.2gb. GTA 3 for PS2 is like a full DVD altho i think alot is dummy file, real size is about 2.5gb if i remember right. It would have to be split up to 2 discs, possibly 3. I dont know how well this had turned out.

[playgeneration]

I reckon dreamcast could have done it no problem, Crazy Taxi had huge sprawling environments similar to GTA. Some of the music would have had to go to fit on the disk, but then theres some songs i wouldnt miss at all anyway.
Its a shame it was never released, it would have certainly prolonged the dreamcasts life, and the PS2 probably would have lost a fair few sales. Infact that one game could have completely changed the consoel outlook we have now, could four consoles have survived alongside each other?

[B - Mark]

yes, it´s possible.

I voted Yes in the pool´s topic and believes could the Dreamcast have handled GTA III.

I seen the screencaps of GTA III for PS2 and Shenmue for DC and i make a conclusion:

It´s possible produces GTA III for Dreamcast with same level of GTA III for PS2.

But his controls are the same for GTA III for X - Box because the controls for Dreamcast and X - Box are similars.

[shadowkn55]

The entire environment doesn't need to be rendered all at once. Only enough to see whats going on in the camera and then maybe a bit more as a buffer when the character starts moving. As far NPC interactions outside of the rendered area, those could be calculations done without graphics rendering. I think the only worthwhile concern is the space issue. Data would have to be compressed or cut out all together.

To put it short, my answer is yes.

[johno590]

I wouldn't see why the DC couldn't handle GTA 3. I think it would of done it very nicely.

[j_factor]

I agree that space would've been the only big concern. GTA3 doesn't have a high poly count at all, and high poly counts are the only major thing PS2 can do better than DC. It likely would've had smoother objects and better textures on Dreamcast, but perhaps with some content cut in the process. I don't know if a GTA3 type of game would really work split into multiple discs.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Yes, of course the Dreamcast could do GTA3. Hell, it could do it with *BETTER* graphics and *LESS* loading and still have space *LEFT OVER* on a GD-ROM. Of course this feat would require coders with more skill than the hacks at Rockstar. Rockstar probably couldn't have made a playable verison of GTA3 on the Dreamcast, but a team like AM2 could have. Maybe it would have be a more enjoyable game if AM2 had made it, too.


...word is bondage...

[gjb-sensei]

No, it would've had to be reworked a bit to get it on the Dreamcast, and even then you probably couldn't truly consider it "Grand Theft Auto III".

[CosmicMonkey]

If the DC can do Shemue and Head Hunter, then it could do GTA. And the textures would have looked better than the PS2 version.

[exit]

They did get all of RE2 on one N64 cart, despite people saying it wasn't possible. It probably could have been done, but it probably wouldn't have been very playable.

[JWZZR]

The Dreamcast should of use Dvd media,sega would of still been making systems

[roushimsx]

They did get all of RE2 on one N64 cart, despite people saying it wasn't possible. It probably could have been done, but it probably wouldn't have been very playable.

That's not even close to being a decent comparison unless you're trying to say that GTA3 could have fit onto a GDROM if you decreased the texture quality further, stripped out the voices, and dropped the audio quality way, way down.


The Dreamcast should of use Dvd media,sega would of still been making systems

God, that would have killed them even quicker. You think people are bitching about how BluRay is driving up the price of the PS3? Imagine if Sega had put DVD into the Dreamcast. The system came out in late 98 when your average stand alone dvd players were $300 a pop and it retailed for about $225 or so (all hail the weak yen and strong dollar of the time!), so you figure it'd probably drive the price up to at least $400+ for the japanese launch and $450-$500 for the US launch (maybe more depending on licensing costs).

Yea, that shit wouldn't have flown at all.

[Steven]

Like one guy said, no doubt, but probably with a few minor corners cut.

I know there's been a long ongoing discussion all over the net of which sytem had the better graphics: DC or early PS2 generation, etc.

[Scott84]

GTA 2's graphics on the DC arent that great sure... but thats how the PC game looked.. so what can you do? Its a port of an older game.

As for GTA III's size? On xbox... the game is less then a GB... so yes. it would be able to fit on a dreamcast disc.

[PSerge]

As so many others have said.. I voted YES..
I think a Dreamcast version of GTAIII may not have been quite as detailed as the PS2 version... But after seeing Shenmue I bet it would have been pretty amazing..

[jajaja]

GTA 2's graphics on the DC arent that great sure... but thats how the PC game looked.. so what can you do? Its a port of an older game.

As for GTA III's size? On xbox... the game is less then a GB... so yes. it would be able to fit on a dreamcast disc.

Ye, but i dont think they would be able to fit it on 1 disc back in the days. If it was coded today, maybe.

[playgeneration]

GTA 2's graphics on the DC arent that great sure... but thats how the PC game looked.. so what can you do? Its a port of an older game.

As for GTA III's size? On xbox... the game is less then a GB... so yes. it would be able to fit on a dreamcast disc.

Ye, but i dont think they would be able to fit it on 1 disc back in the days. If it was coded today, maybe.

Well size dreamcast disks are 1.2gb, there would need to be over 200 meg of lazy bad coding for it to not fit one disk. I think the question isnt wether dreamcast could run gta 3, its more like would Rockstar have released it on DC?, could Sega have outbid Sony for the inital rights to the game?

[jajaja]

GTA 2's graphics on the DC arent that great sure... but thats how the PC game looked.. so what can you do? Its a port of an older game.

As for GTA III's size? On xbox... the game is less then a GB... so yes. it would be able to fit on a dreamcast disc.

Ye, but i dont think they would be able to fit it on 1 disc back in the days. If it was coded today, maybe.

Well size dreamcast disks are 1.2gb, there would need to be over 200 meg of lazy bad coding for it to not fit one disk. I think the question isnt wether dreamcast could run gta 3, its more like would Rockstar have released it on DC?, could Sega have outbid Sony for the inital rights to the game?

I know, but the PS2 version isnt 2.5gb because of bad coding :) I dont know why exactly, but maybe it has something to do with how well the machine can handle texture compression etc. Do anyone knows the answer?

[Steven]

If Shenmue was coded for Saturn and it looked pretty darn nice (for Saturn standards anyhow), then GTA III on DC definitely was possible.

(Saturn Shenmue video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVBEnYPbqhI

[Scott84]

GTA 2's graphics on the DC arent that great sure... but thats how the PC game looked.. so what can you do? Its a port of an older game.

As for GTA III's size? On xbox... the game is less then a GB... so yes. it would be able to fit on a dreamcast disc.

Ye, but i dont think they would be able to fit it on 1 disc back in the days. If it was coded today, maybe.

Well, considering when the game would have come out, the DC team would have had significant experience with DC hardware, so coding and space would not be a problem.

[bangtango]

GTA 2's graphics on the DC arent that great sure... but thats how the PC game looked.. so what can you do? Its a port of an older game.

As for GTA III's size? On xbox... the game is less then a GB... so yes. it would be able to fit on a dreamcast disc.

Ye, but i dont think they would be able to fit it on 1 disc back in the days. If it was coded today, maybe.

Well size dreamcast disks are 1.2gb, there would need to be over 200 meg of lazy bad coding for it to not fit one disk. I think the question isnt wether dreamcast could run gta 3, its more like would Rockstar have released it on DC?, could Sega have outbid Sony for the inital rights to the game?

Rockstar wouldn't have done it. I've read at least a few interview quotes from Rockstar guys, like Rubin, saying they hoped Sony killed off the Dreamcast and that Sega should go away. At the time, they wanted people to believe Sega wasn't a contender. When you have guys from the company openly bashing the system (DC) in interviews, before PS2 even came out, it'd never have been ported.

[MarioMania]

Why was Shenmue canned for the Saturn

[Nez]

Why was Shenmue canned for the Saturn

Dreamcast. The Saturn was dead by the time Shenmue would have came out.

[SirDrexl]

The size of the disc may not have been an issue. GTA III for Xbox is around 750 MB, and Vice City is about 1.25 GB. There may be some texture and audio compression used for those versions that the DC may not have been able to use though.

One thing they would have had to do is create a controller with two analog sticks. It's been a while since I played, but I think that the extra buttons were used as well. The sticks may had to have been able to be pushed down like the PS2/Xbox's sticks.

[jajaja]

Question is if th DC is powerful enought to handle the same compression as xbox. I doubt that.

[alec]

I think it could run that game, but I'm not sure if a GD could fit all the RADIO stations onto it. The Radio Stations were really the coolest part of GTA III and are the best part of the entire series for that matter.

[cityside75]

I'm sure someone will say I'm comparing apples and oranges, but I say if they could pull off a decent version of GTA on the PSP with all of its limitations (smaller media space, no dual analog, etc) then I believe that they could have done it on the Dreamcast too.

[/b/tard]

I'm no expert, but I'd bet $20 that the Dreamcast could have handled Grand Theft Auto III. I voted yes.

[Neil Koch]

The size of the disc may not have been an issue. GTA III for Xbox is around 750 MB, and Vice City is about 1.25 GB. There may be some texture and audio compression used for those versions that the DC may not have been able to use though.

One thing they would have had to do is create a controller with two analog sticks. It's been a while since I played, but I think that the extra buttons were used as well. The sticks may had to have been able to be pushed down like the PS2/Xbox's sticks.

That's a good point - drive-bys are a pain to pull off on the Xbox version, and they'd be impossible on the DC controller.

[googlefest1]

i have no doubt that it could

[Hep038]

Yes, of course the Dreamcast could do GTA3. Hell, it could do it with *BETTER* graphics and *LESS* loading and still have space *LEFT OVER* on a GD-ROM. Of course this feat would require coders with more skill than the hacks at Rockstar. Rockstar probably couldn't have made a playable verison of GTA3 on the Dreamcast, but a team like AM2 could have. Maybe it would have be a more enjoyable game if AM2 had made it, too.


...word is bondage...



That gave me a good laugh. Thanks.

[j_factor]

GTA 2's graphics on the DC arent that great sure... but thats how the PC game looked.. so what can you do? Its a port of an older game.

As for GTA III's size? On xbox... the game is less then a GB... so yes. it would be able to fit on a dreamcast disc.

Ye, but i dont think they would be able to fit it on 1 disc back in the days. If it was coded today, maybe.

Well size dreamcast disks are 1.2gb, there would need to be over 200 meg of lazy bad coding for it to not fit one disk. I think the question isnt wether dreamcast could run gta 3, its more like would Rockstar have released it on DC?, could Sega have outbid Sony for the inital rights to the game?

Rockstar wouldn't have done it. I've read at least a few interview quotes from Rockstar guys, like Rubin, saying they hoped Sony killed off the Dreamcast and that Sega should go away. At the time, they wanted people to believe Sega wasn't a contender. When you have guys from the company openly bashing the system (DC) in interviews, before PS2 even came out, it'd never have been ported.

So... how come they released GTA2, Wild Metal, etc. for DC then?

[bangtango]

GTA 2's graphics on the DC arent that great sure... but thats how the PC game looked.. so what can you do? Its a port of an older game.

As for GTA III's size? On xbox... the game is less then a GB... so yes. it would be able to fit on a dreamcast disc.

Ye, but i dont think they would be able to fit it on 1 disc back in the days. If it was coded today, maybe.

Well size dreamcast disks are 1.2gb, there would need to be over 200 meg of lazy bad coding for it to not fit one disk. I think the question isnt wether dreamcast could run gta 3, its more like would Rockstar have released it on DC?, could Sega have outbid Sony for the inital rights to the game?

Rockstar wouldn't have done it. I've read at least a few interview quotes from Rockstar guys, like Rubin, saying they hoped Sony killed off the Dreamcast and that Sega should go away. At the time, they wanted people to believe Sega wasn't a contender. When you have guys from the company openly bashing the system (DC) in interviews, before PS2 even came out, it'd never have been ported.

So... how come they released GTA2, Wild Metal, etc. for DC then?

W-W-We-We-Wel-Wel-Well-Well........Oh damn.

*BangTango quietly sneaks out of the thread*

Seriously, though, I confused Rock Star with Naughty Dog. Honest mistake. I don't know how that happened.