people using the word mint too passively

[ckendal]

As many of you out there, I try to collect the nicest copies of 'vintage' games as a I can. Sometimes even wanting complete in box near mint/mint copies, but sometimes people like to STRETCH the word mint. Here is an example

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250026472706

The item is marked as mint and complete. Well it certainly is complete, but it's definitely not mint. Look at the manual with the half torn off cover and the stain. And this is just a small picture. I am sure up close this isn't even close to mint. It might be in good condition at best. Look up the word mint and it will state adj. "as if new."

I am just getting sick and tired of people out there using the world MINT too easily/passively. I always ask for high res pictures be sent to me if I am purchasing something and always ask people to describe things in detail. This is the only way I know to get what I want. I just don't take people's word for it being mint anymore unless I have dealt with them before and know the quality of there stuff.

Sorry for the rant, but this has been bugging me for a while. Anyone else out there feel the same way?

-Carl

[staxx]

Unlike comics where there is guide on what is mint, nm, vf and so on, people will use the word mint to sell the product. Now from my experience, when I deal with people in Japan, when they use their scale (A+ or mint) it really is in brand new like condition. If you are going to purchase a expensive item, then sure hi-res pics should be used. My major concern are CD or DVD based games. Lots of people say that their game is mint though there are scratches on their disc. Luckily for me, I have access to a resurfacing machine that can take care of fine scratches.

[unbroken]

I think you're blowing it out of proportion, the box actually looks pretty mint to me, and sure the manual has a tear but it clearly shows it in the picture. To the 99.9% of people out there who dont collect games, I'm sure they would consider that in good condition.

[ckendal]

I think you're blowing it out of proportion, the box actually looks pretty mint to me, and sure the manual has a tear but it clearly shows it in the picture. To the 99.9% of people out there who dont collect games, I'm sure they would consider that in good condition.

Thank you, you just proved my point. I don't care what it shows in the picture. DON'T CALL IT MINT! Even people who don't collect games know what that means. People have done it with stamps, comic books, etc. Mint means as if new, not GOOD! And you just stated it looked in GOOD condition, but you didn't use the word MINT.

[CosmicMonkey]

People do indeed use certain words when they shouldn't. A quick search of just the Video Games section of eBay.com, and there's 10,570 items with 'rare' in the title, and 5849 items listed with 'mint' in the title.

Now, how many of these items really are rare or mint? I'm gessing not that many.

Although there is probably a fair few games by Rare (of Rareware fame) listed, if it's in the title. But still....

[Synergy]

I feel the same way, and I personally don't think he's "blowing anything out of proportion" at all. I saw a MINT COMPLETE copy of Freedom Force which just had a pic of a worn box that had creases all around it. Oh, and it was $30. :roll:

Still, the word "RARE" will always be the most out of control word on eBay. Super Mario Bros./Duck Hunt? Contra? Mike Tyson' Punch Out!!? No. Not RARE!!!11. Sorry.

[fishsandwich]

I agree as well. "Mint" means "as new", as in when it was new and left the factory. Unless the factory tore the instruction manual and scuffed the box and its tabs before sealing it then it's certainly not "mint"

This seller should (and does) know better... yet another example of decribing things as they aren't.

Oh, well. Happens all the time. Not much you can do except don't buy that used, torn crap labeled as MINT!

[klausien]

To a non-collector, my collection looks pretty Mint. To me, a decent amount of if would be "mint" if I replaced some CD cases, but the majority of it is in Good to Very Good condition. With games, the only way I consider something truly mint is if it is the comic book collector's concept of mint. I think most others who take our hobby seriously do as well.

That being said, the Marble Madness auction would have been better served to advertise the super mint box instead of using the mint/complete catchphrase. Then we wouldn't be talking about it ;)

[qbertandernie]

i think that seller is a member on DP, but check her other auctions, EVERYTHING says 'mint' or 'like new' and very little of it is. feedback isnt too bad though, so most people must not care...

[gum_drops]

I agree 100% with ckendal on this one. Mint is thrown around way too much. Sometimes by people who are unaware of how to access condition. Other times by people who know better but like to increase profits by misrepresenting the condition on items (like raregamegirl).

You really have to ask a lot of questions on expensive games if its only listed as mint without an indepth description of the contents, just to cover yourself.

I bought a copy of popful mail a while ago listed as Mint. The reg card was gone, the manual was worn and the Disc had a good deal of scratching. How that is considered anything close to mint is beyond me. Thats what i get for assuming i guess.

I use a grading scale whenever I sell cd based games or expensive cart games which outlines what to expect from each grade term, similiar to what most japanese game sellers do.

[Funk Buddy]

i think that seller is a member on DP, but check her other auctions, EVERYTHING says 'mint' or 'like new' and very little of it is. feedback isnt too bad though, so most people must not care...

Quoted for truth.

I have problems with peoples descriptions on eBay all the time. I try to ask before hand, but if it's a good deal on BIN it's hard to wait. Like new or near mint doesn't mean tons of scratches IMO, a few light marks maybe.

[Griking]

I've run into plenty of sellers on ebay guilty of this. A common defense I hear is that they claim the game is in mint condition and not necessarily the box or manual.

[Damaramu]

i think that seller is a member on DP, but check her other auctions, EVERYTHING says 'mint' or 'like new' and very little of it is. feedback isnt too bad though, so most people must not care...

Quoted for truth.

I have problems with peoples descriptions on eBay all the time. I try to ask before hand, but if it's a good deal on BIN it's hard to wait. Like new or near mint doesn't mean tons of scratches IMO, a few light marks maybe.

Actually, if you Ebay Negs her, you'll see that she gets alot of neutral or negative feedback regarding condition. Click me (http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=raregamergirl&v=60).

12 neutral/negative fb given this month alone. Big warning flag there. :eek 2:

[bangtango]

I've PM'ed raregamergirl to ask that she address this. I feel it is only fair she have her say, since she IS a member here.

[raregamergirl]

Are you kidding me? come on! for one, I clearly state the PACKAGE as a whole is in GREAT condition, please review the auction
Hello. This set price is for the game Marble Madness. item is in great shape.
the TITLE reflect the cart and box, which I assure you ARE in mint like new condition. the manual was NOT (please note I have multiples of these as well, only ONE has a torn manual but I showed that picture just to let the buyer either expect something better or that one).
the box and cart are in mint condition. the manual is NOT and I clearly picture it and I also describe the package as great condition.
Also, if a buyer decided to try to scam me, they will get negative feedback.
If a buyer decided to leave me feedback without attempting to resolve an issue, they will get negative feedback
I do NOT leave negative or neutral feedback for users who leave me negative feedback (I rarely if ever leave neg for people who leave me neutral anyways) unless I deem it necessary.
The item is NOT mint as a package but parts are, hence the title.
Please note that I do not personally add ANY of my auctions either, employees do and they use the same words over and over again as it is easier than changing certain things. The description always describes the item accurately. I will get back to this thread in a few minutes as I have to run for a few.

[raregamergirl]

Also, if you email my buyers, 99.9 percent of them agree they recieved an item that was accurately described. VERY few of my feedback comes over condition. There are a few. Please also note that very few of the descriptions state the item is mint, they generally state it is in great conditon. I generally only list items that are in mint or near mint condition on ebay. As stated, I am a business so I do not personally add a single one of my items to ebay, but my employees can accurately describe the items. they have zero to gain or lose by lying over condition so they are virtually 100 percent correct on grading scales. Is this PACKAGE mint or like new? no. if you read the description, though, or look at the picture, you would realize that. I use actual photo's, unlike most sellers, so you know what you are getting. ANYONE who buys or sells on ebay knows to check the description for a complete and accurate rundown of the item.

[shadowkn55]

The detailing is a bit ambiguous. It would have clearer if you described the cart and box separate from the manual to avoid any confusion.

Personally I would have worded it something like this:

Box and cartridge are in mint condition but the manual is torn as you can see in the picture.

[Jumpman Jr.]

If I ever sell anything (which is quite rare in itself, I usually never sell anything), I never use the word "mint" to describe my games. The reason is simple: Everybody's definition of the word "mint" is different. Personally, something "mint" is really hard to find. Mint is something where there is 100% absolutely nothing wrong with whatever you are selling.
There are VERY few things in my entire collection that I would describe like that. Almost everything is very close to being mint, but nothing is mint.

But yeah, people using the word "mint" too much is annoying, but it is so common that I don't even think about it anymore.
However, I think if you are actually a "mint" collector, you're always going to be pissed off because you will always find flaws in your games.

[kentuckyfried]

Heh, here's my problem. I sell lots factory sealed NES games and I can't even call those mint. There are always some imperfection in the seal, scuffing in the shrink, though the game inside is truly the definition of mint.

But I can't say 'mint' because it's not!

[bangtango]

Video game collectors aren't the only people who complain about Ebay listings which promote items as mint. It happens to everybody who buys stuff. I've bought "sealed" music cd's which have shown up clearly resealed. Most of the time they are mint (or near mint) but I've received resealed discs which have had heavy damage.

As for my most recent "burn":........Why the hell someone feels the need to "reseal" a deleted/cut-out copy of Buckcherry's 'Time Bomb' album (the Walmart edited version, to boot) is beyond me, considering it goes for $3-4 new on Amazon, but people do stuff like that.

Also, one of her replies said she has employees listing these things. I assume they get paid to list as many items as they can, in a certain period of time. Right now, she has over 600 video games up. That doesn't include several non-gaming items. You can't build up a list that big without using very similar (or generic) terms in your auctions.

Couple that with her previous feedback and you can safely assume that that her items go up Bing-Bang-Boom. High volume sellers thrive by regularly adding a high volume (or quantity) of items.

[Daria]

Raregamergirl: I think the problem then is that "Mint" shouldn't be term used in your template for genaric auctions.

It's a condition adjective that implies you've actually evaluated the object to be sold. But you haven't, and apparently neither have your employees.

[raregamergirl]

I pay by the hour, NOT by the auction. I have fired 4 different employees for not correctly listing items and have a 3 large strikes and you are out rule. So no, the items are ALWAYS described accurately. I pay very well by the hour so there is no reason for an employee to hurry (honestly, one of them should be going a LOT faster, he does a bit over 20 auctions or so an hour on average.

[Vectorman0]

the items are ALWAYS described accurately.


Marble Madness Nintendo NES Complete Mint Like New MIB

http://i12.ebayimg.com/06/i/08/33/d9/f7_1_b.JPG

[raregamergirl]

Please not though that when changing an auction, very few things change. The ONLY words that change are

the condition (sometimes, usually you try to group items for the same system in the same condition that come with the same thing so you hope to only change the title and the name of the game)

the name of the game (always changes, unless describing an item of the same game just in varied condition, such as worse condition or does not include a certain item etc)

the sysem (if changing system)

what it comes with (manual, box, disk, cart etc, one of my employees recently added a crapload of auctions and decided to spell disk as "disc" apparently, just noticed this)

thats just about it. you are going to change as little as possible and certain words are used in the title a lot.

[raregamergirl]

AS I HAVE EXPLAINED the DESCRIPTION is not the title. the description of that item CLEARLY READS
Hello. This set price is for the game Marble Madness. item is in great shape. Comes with box, manual, sleeve, styrofoam brick and game cartrige.

I have already explained this several times, please go read the entire thread before posting perhaps. the title DOES accurately describe certain items included. also, this was 2. of the 2 is in like new condition with the wrap included also while the other has a rip in the manual.

[Daria]

Please not though that when changing an auction, very few things change. The ONLY words that change are

the condition...

Unless you ment the flavor, mint IS the condition.

[raregamergirl]

I do not understand the post above this. Cant understand what you are trying to say, the description lists the condition and it changes, as you can see based on the auction. the description lists the condition of the package as great condition.

[Daria]

And the title lists the condition as mint, which it is not. You also seem to feel that the tile is exempt from reflecting the true condition of the item and therefore is not expected to be changed by your employees when listing your items.

I'm merely pointing out that I think your logic is flawed.

[raregamergirl]

So the title can describe what is included, correct?
The box and cart ARE mint. The box is perfect.
Therefore, how is mint not viable for the title?
For explample, lets say someone is listing a package of games and includes the name of one of the games in the title
is that not correct since that IS one of the items included
well, certain parts of what is included ARE in (what I consider at least) mint condition
therefore, is mint not at least somewhat accurate considering that multiple items qualify for that term?

[pseudonym]

mint to me means everything regarding the item is flawless. i can see a spot where there was likely a sticker on the manual which means it's in great or even near mint condition. not mint though.

[Daria]

Apples and oranges.

Listing a valuable game in the title of a lot listing is fine, it's good marketing. More importantly to this discussion, it is not misleading. You know the seller is listing a lot of games, and you know "x game" is included.

By listing your auction as MIB when the manual is clearly torn IS misleading. Or it would be if anyone gave any stock to the term "mint" on ebay, however because of auctions like yours that word, like "rare", has lost all significance.

It's meaningless fluff. And more irksome it's lie.

Your auction is not mint in box because the term does not mean "in excellent condition except that nasty bit with the torn manual". It means "like new" and for an NES game to be like new all of it's original parts sans celophane have to be in pristine condition.

[pseudonym]

where's the edit button?

anyway, people throw around the "mint" word quite a bit. not as much as "rare" but it gets on my nerves sometimes.

[raregamergirl]

I totally disagree with you about the title. Sorry but it DOES represent certain items included therefore it is clearly relevant. It pertains to certain items that are included. the description of the item is where you describe the item so the buyer knows EXACTLY what they are getting. technically, according to ebay rules, a title and the picture mean zero. ALL that matters is the description. the title draws the buyer in to view the description. they can then make their own decision on the item. is it not CLEAR that one of the two copies of the games has a ripped manual? was it not pictured and clearly shown? in the description, was the item not labelled as great condition and not mint condition? I am not trying to mislead anyone, hence why the picture and the accurate description of the item.

the description (what matters) does not describe the item as mint. the title accurarely describes what is included. the box and cart are mint and in very nice condition. purchase it and see for yourself. I will give you a full refund including shipping plus pay for return shipping if you think otherwise. I am just repeating myself over and over. the item was described accurately, and in my opinion the title correctly described the item. I sell 2000 items a month on ebay and buy another 200 or so a month. I know how ebay works and if another seller had this exact auction, I would totally purchase the item if I needed it. the item was not described as mint at all so nowhere was the manual meant to be considered mint. how much more clear can you get in the description and picture? the rip is not mentioned in the auction as that would be a waste of time and it is obvious (at least to me). I have already sold 1 of these 2 also.

This is going to be my last post in this thread as I continue to just repeat myself while getting apparently nowhere. You can think what you would like, I honestly do not care. the description clearly accurately describes the item and that is all I care about.

[Damaramu]

5 out of the 12 neutral/negatives she received for this month seem to have issues with the condition of the games she sent them.

Describing items as mint when they're not seems to be a reaccuring theme with her. Check out her neutral/negative feedback for the month of August! :eek 2:

[kentuckyfried]

I totally disagree with you about the title. Sorry but it DOES represent certain items included therefore it is clearly relevant. It pertains to certain items that are included. the description of the item is where you describe the item so the buyer knows EXACTLY what they are getting. technically, according to ebay rules, a title and the picture mean zero. ALL that matters is the description. the title draws the buyer in to view the description. they can then make their own decision on the item. is it not CLEAR that one of the two copies of the games has a ripped manual? was it not pictured and clearly shown? in the description, was the item not labelled as great condition and not mint condition? I am not trying to mislead anyone, hence why the picture and the accurate description of the item.

the description (what matters) does not describe the item as mint. the title accurarely describes what is included. the box and cart are mint and in very nice condition. purchase it and see for yourself. I will give you a full refund including shipping plus pay for return shipping if you think otherwise. I am just repeating myself over and over. the item was described accurately, and in my opinion the title correctly described the item. I sell 2000 items a month on ebay and buy another 200 or so a month. I know how ebay works and if another seller had this exact auction, I would totally purchase the item if I needed it. the item was not described as mint at all so nowhere was the manual meant to be considered mint. how much more clear can you get in the description and picture? the rip is not mentioned in the auction as that would be a waste of time and it is obvious (at least to me). I have already sold 1 of these 2 also.

This is going to be my last post in this thread as I continue to just repeat myself while getting apparently nowhere. You can think what you would like, I honestly do not care. the description clearly accurately describes the item and that is all I care about.

Misinformation is one of the many things wrong with the world today. You either fight against it or profit from it.

[gum_drops]

according to ebay rules, a title and the picture mean zero. ALL that matters is the description.

Quote from ebay: "Sellers are not permitted to create titles for their listings that do not accurately describe the item for sale."

So the title does mean something according to ebay rules. Now your fudging of the actual condition isnt enough to warrent a violation but the titles is suppose to give a truthful description of the item.



in the description, was the item not labelled as great condition and not mint condition?

Well then if the item is described as great or excellent in the auction description, why not call it that in the title?

Or on the flip side, if the title is not misleading as you claim, why not call the game Mint in the description also?


I sell 2000 items a month on ebay and buy another 200 or so a month. I know how ebay works

Yes it is apparent you do, and you seem to do rather well. You know all the "tricks" to get the most profit you can out of your listings. No argument there I conseed that point.

I noticed nearly all your NES auctions are Mint. Exactly what constitutes a mint NES cart? Just an intact label and a quick swab of alcohol on the contacts? If thats the case I have a whole box full of mint NES games, who knew.

[ckendal]

Looks like I have dug up a bunch of other peoples emotions when dealing with this as well.

To raregamergirl: It would be in your best judgement to just not use the word MINT in the title of your auctions REGARDLESS of what it says in the description.

It is sort of like false-advertising. Strike that, it is!

To everyone else: Let's keep this discussion going. I am a player first, but a collector second. I like my stuff to be nice. Anyone who knows me or has dealt with me knows that I always ask about condition probably 50-100 times before I commit to buying something. I usually ask for high res pics as well and if you can't supply any, I just simply don't deal with you. (unless i've dealt with you before)

I'd like to hear some more opinions!

[dj_spryte]

That's why we need VIDEO GAME GRADING SYSTEMS!!

[staxx]

Mint is a very opinionated word, people's grading of a game is not the same. It's also the same as saying that a game is in immaculate condition (I may grade it differently from other people). On ebay I choose to read the description and mainly focus on the picture. If it is a CD or DVD based game like I mentioned before I would ask questions about if there are any scratches. I keep the answer from the seller in my email just incase there are many scratches for a dispute. As for cartridge games, since people are using keywords to market their product, then a hi res picture is in order. People that have dealt with me has sent me pictures when I have ordered the more pricey stuff. The bottomline I feel is that in order to be safe then do the following:

1. Ask specific questions when in doubt.
2. If you know it is not 100% Mint as in this case then don't buy it, no matter what it states.
3. Ask about if there are any scratches on the CD/DVD or what is the condition etc.
4. Ask fir close up hi res pics if need be.
5. When in doubt, don't buy it.
6. Use Credit Card when you can for transaction due to the CC protection and file a dispute (most CC companies are on your side, DON'T USE PAYPAL's DISPUTE PROCESS, that is an entire whole topic by itself).

[lendelin]

the description (what matters) does not describe the item as mint. the title accurarely describes what is included.

You conveniently separate the title from the item description in the ad.

I have a very simple Q: Let us assume you are honest and don't wanna mislead. Why in the world does the title then make statements about the CONDITION of the complete item which applies only to two thirds of the item sold?

If you stress the difference of the title and the actual item description, wouldn't it make more sense not to overload the title with descriptions ? (which, I guess just by coincidence, are misleading in favor of you, the seller. Wouldn't it be something if the title read "complete, in bad shape, torn" which would be accuarte as well, according to you?)

The truth we all know (including you, raregamegirl) is simple: it is so common to mislead, use euphemisms, and to avoid pointing out flaws for items on ebay for the sake of profit that it is possible to call black white, make dumb justifications for dishonesty, and even try to convince others and maybe even yourself that you are honest.

Let me tell you a secret: you are NOT honest, decent, trustworthy or otherwise a good person when it comes to selling stuff. It is as simple as that.

[yok-dfa]

So the title can describe what is included, correct?
For explample, lets say someone is listing a package of games and includes the name of one of the games in the title
is that not correct since that IS one of the items included
well, certain parts of what is included ARE in (what I consider at least) mint condition
therefore, is mint not at least somewhat accurate considering that multiple items qualify for that term?
So if i sell a lot of 100 games, of which 7 are in mint condition and the other 93 have torn labels, markings, are missing box and/or manual, have been written on and might not even work, according to your logic i can still use the title "100 games in mint condition" x_x

[devils advocate]

It is very obvious what the attitude of raregamergirl is. It shines through in every post in this thread, and even more so in the responses made in her feedback file.
I have never seen a seller call so many of her customers liars, cheats or the like.
This seller has even lied blatantly in this thread. Stating that few of her negatives are over condition. All one has to do is read her feedback to know that is most certainly not the case.
I read through a lot of the feedback, even checking the pics and descriptions. I saw piles of items described as "mint", that clearly were not even close.
I also figured out that she leaves retaliatory negatives, and then requests mutual withdrawls. One person even mentioned it directly.
It seems that the postal service in her neighbourhood is also quite poor. I've never heard of such slow service. They also seem to misplace any customer returns. You should really talk to your local postmaster raregamergirl, they seem to have lots of issues.
This my friends, is a prime example of an Ebayer who truly does not care about her clients whatsoever. The only thing important is getting 20 listings on per hour, and trying to marginalize the amount of poor reviews, by calling the people who support you , liars and cheats.
Instead of coming on here, LISTENING to the constructive criticism given, you sluff it all off with ludicrous reasons as to why it's ok for you to "slightly mislead" your customers. If Ebay had a rule that I could call a product black, when it was really white, I still wouldn't do it. Why? Because I am honest, and hope people would also do the same. Think about that. Honesty. Don't bother mentioning that your product descriptions are, as anyone can look at the pictures to realize they're not. I'm sad to think we have a member here with your values.

Poor form.

[devils advocate]

As a bit of a follow up, it seems that as long as you accept your product and leave positive feedback for raregamergirl everything is Ok. If you leave a negative regarding shipping time or condition, you automatically get one back. If you leave positive feedback, she rarely even bothers to leave one in return.
Check out her "feedback left for others". It is virtually all negative feedback, unless she buys something. She seems to leave positive feedback then.
Some people have gotten wise to her though. Instead of leaving negative feedback about condition or delayed shipping, they leave positive feedback about the problem. LOL I don't think I've ever seen that before LOL


As raregamergirl would say, "WARNING TO ALL! BEWARE! STAY AWAY!" LOL

[FantasiaWHT]

I use the terms Mint and Near Mint if my game deserves them. If it doesn't, I don't put a descriptor (other than complete) in my title.

I also grade each disc/cart, the box, and the manual from 1-10 and give detailed description of each.

Mint in my auctions means averaging 9 or higher (so it doesn't have to be flawless, I have a separate description in the rare instance I get 3 scores of 10) Neat Mint means 8 or higher.

You may disagree about how I define M/NM, but at least I describe how i arrive at that conclusion. My feedback shows this is a good system- plenty of people comment on my accurate description

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=keichi5&ssPageName=STRK:ME:UFS

[Vectorman0]

I'd like to hear some more opinions!

Yes, I feel mint is over-used and I have had to change the way I do things to avoid any problems. I rarely pay attention to the word mint unless it is coming from a collector I know is very serious about the condition of their items. Usually I have much lower expectations for "mint" items on ebay than I do here at DP and other forums.

When I sell stuff, I rarely ever call something "mint." I consider mint so be something that could not be better in any way, unless it was "mint" and "factory sealed." I have probably used it less than 15 times to describe something. What many people call mint, I would call "near mint" or "very good."

I don't think I've ever disappointed someone with the condition of something I have sold, and I'd much rather it be that way than try to milk a few more dollars out of a sale by lowering my grading standards.


Buying stuff, I have very low expectations usually. Something deemed mint I will expect to be my "very good" or "good" at the worst. If I am looking for something in the most mint condition possible, unless I personally know the seller is a strict grading freak like me, I will need nice pictures to verify the condition.

[Ralph Wiggum]

What's a diorama?

http://crazyebaylady.ytmnd.com/

[qbertandernie]

i kind of skipped page two, but what i get from the seller in question is "i am just a business owner, and want to make the most money off of my items for sale. i cant check everything, its not my fault. besides, who cares?"

i dont buy on ebay anymore due to things like this. 3 of the 5 negatives i have are from sellers that wouldnt give refunds on significantly damaged games advertised as 'mint'. i think most buyers dont leave negs because theyre afraid of getting negs. i know i used to be that way, especially when i was sitting on 20 feedbacks.

to whoever said "MINT" is a term based on personal opinion? "MINT" is described (in Websters New World Dictionary) as 'new or in its original condition'. "Mint" means its AS NEW, no exceptions.

buyer beware i guess. thats why i dont buy off of ebay...too many people dont care, and theres really no punishment. 12 negs a month? no big deal.

[ckendal]

What's a diorama?

http://crazyebaylady.ytmnd.com/

Whether we all like or dislike raregamergirl or whether we've had good or bad dealings with her, let's not turn this into a flaming post about her. Although almost every other controversial topic on DP seems too. No idea why. She seems to put herself into some sticky situations, but that is a discussion for another day.

Maybe I should have chosen a better example, but as others have stated I chose that one because it was one of the first that I came across and the fact that MINT is probably in 98% of her auctions when more like 3% maybe are.

Let's stick to the thread topic, anyone else have any more comments?!

[GrandAmChandler]

I do. That auction should not have been stated as "MINT" While the Box and cartridge are both in Near Mint condition, the manual is pretty crappy. Wrong? Maybe. Deceitful? Definitely.

I would explain to your employees that they need to be VERY careful when posting things on eBay. Unless every piece of the item is MINT, then you should not state that in the auction title.

"MINT" = the new "RARE!" = the old "LQQK!"

[Daria]

We had a thead once about a strange phenomena on ebay where sellers would pose as females because male gamers would pay more or people were generally more likely to trust them.

Course now I can't find the topic through any amount of searching. But "raregamegirl" has always kind of struck me as one of these. No proof mind, and this isn't meant as a flame. But maybe because of her unscruplous attitude I just wouldn't put it past her.

[CosmicMonkey]

Well the answer is simple: don't buy anything on eBay from 'raregamegirl'! Obviously s/he is an eBay profitmonger who knows how to play the eBay system, and doesn't give a damn about the customer. So it's quite simple: boycot all raregamegirl's auctions. Problem solved (for us lot, anyway).

[Captain Wrong]

I have a simple rule I try to go by when I sell anything on eBay: if I was to win my own auction, would I be disappointed or satisfied with the item if I knew nothing more about it than what was in the auction description. I guess it's basically the golden rule kind of thing.

I'm not saying I'm a perfect eBay seller, but listing like this hasn't failed me yet. I wish more sellers had this kind of attitude, especially when it's obvious that some sellers on eBay wouldn't be happy winning their own auctions.

[raregamergirl]

I realize I said I would not post again, but after viewing this thread, I seriously had to. First off, many gamers in the Columbus area have almost surely met me. EVERYTHING from ebay to paypal is in my name (Sara Holmquist) so oh yeah I am really a male in disguise LOL
thats seriously one of the most hillarious ideas I have ever read, it makes no sense
regardless, how in the world was I trying to mislead anyone? I have in my personal collection a sealed and a gem mint flawless copy of this game (and most other games). yeah, if I was trying to confuse anyone would I not picture THOSE items and use them as stock photos? also, as stated, there were TWO for sale. one of them is mint condition. THE OTHER has a rip in the manual! because one of the two had a rip, I lowered the condition ON BOTH of them to great condition and NOT mint or like new or near mint condition. I also clearly pictured the item. I sell over 2000 items a month on ebay. I also sell on several other venues quite a bit. I sell a LOT of items. I make little profit. I do not really do this for the money. If you boycot me MORE POWER TO YOU!!! I do NOT care one bitt. honestly. my items will sell to someone in the world.
as for my feedback, not go and take another look, but this time look at the WHOLE package. what percentage of people say item was not as described? 1/2 of a percent? thats 1 in 200 people. considering some people may have a pickier grading scale (say 1 in 100), that sounds DAMN impressive to me. Please note, yet again, that you are not dealing with your average seller. I am one of the largest video game sellers on ebay in the world (top five). Am I going to please everyone? HECK NO! I do not expect to. I already explained that yes I do leave negative feedback IF I FEEL IT IS NECESSARY. How many other serious sellers on here HATE IT when a buyer has an apparent issue with an item (such as it not working or something similar) yet they failed to contact you and immediately left negative feedback? would you not like to know ahead of time that the user is that type of buyer? I sure as heck would and I know several of the other top tier sellers on ebay personally and they all agree. I do not sell truly RARE items on ebay (perhaps what some would consider on ebay to be rare but not one of type of pieces) but I do sell a lot of harder to find or obscure items (what most outside the gaming community consider rare). Also, on the note of people getting items as described, please check and you will see over 10,000 buyers pleased with their items. Teetering on a 98.9 percent feedback ratio. thats 1 in 100 unhappy customers. Pretty impressive when selling only used items in the quantities that I do.

I was not trying to confuse anyone here, the picture shows the item and the title is accurate. the description is accurate. if you do not agree GO BUY SOMEWHERE ELSE! Am I getting an attitude? You could say that. Considering people fail to even look at the whole picture and just decide to look at one small aspect of it, yeah I am getting a bit annoyed. If I was trying to confuse anyone, dont think I would have approved that picture to be used. My items accurately describe the item at least 99 out of 100 percent of the time. As stated, I do not personally add all my items and employees do make mistakes so there is a small percentage where I do not personally agree. In this instance, I sure as heck DO agree they are correct though.
End rant.

[sisko]

On the first page of your feedback left for others, you have 19 negative or mutually withdrawn feedback (which might as well be negs) out of 25.

If something is consistantly wrong with the vast majority of your buyers, at which point do you realize that there might be something wrong with you as a seller or with your selling practices?

[raregamergirl]

I generally do NOT leave positive feedback for anyone unless it is completely requested. I just dont have time to go through and leave feedback for that many people. As stated a gazillion times, I do leave negative feedback. The last 25 feedback I left ranges probably 2 months. If feedback was withdrew, it was over 1 of 2 things
a) user claimed to not recieve item and ended up recieving it
b) user said item was somehow not working when they recieved it and were refunded or item was replaced.

[Ascending Wordsmith]

I never use "mint" in any of my auction descriptions. Even if I'm selling a game that many would consider to be in mint condition, I use the term "excellent" in place of it. In fact, if it's not factory sealed, my scale (descending) goes "excellent", "very good", then "good". Anything below the latter I will describe in detail within the auction description.

"Mint" is just too troublesome because its subjectivity. One guy takes mint to mean the item was well taken care of, another guy sees mint as flawless with a meticulous account of each molecule that keeps the item existing in its physical form.

Mint is only good when its pressed into circular disks and covered with chocolate. I believe York has set the standard in this area. :D

[fishsandwich]

if you do not agree GO BUY SOMEWHERE ELSE!

Take note, everyone. This is a fine idea.



End rant.

Good lord I hope so.

[ckendal]

My items accurately describe the item at least 99 out of 100 percent of the time. As stated, I do not personally add all my items and employees do make mistakes so there is a small percentage where I do not personally agree. In this instance, I sure as heck DO agree they are correct though.
End rant.

Since for some reason you seem so DEFENSIVE (you always are - which definitely bothers people), I thought I'd throw this out there.

Your items aren't accurately described. There is a difference between making a mistake and trying to make a quick buck with false descriptions. Your employees shouldn't make 1950 mistakes out of every 2000 auctions listed. x_x

Secondly if you agree that they listed a marble madness with a torn cover and stained manual as mint as ok, then let it be known to everyone here at DP(who are TRUE collector's) to just avoid her altogether.

Just my 2 cents!

[raregamergirl]

They didnt list it as mint!!!!
they listed it as GREAT CONDITION! READ THE AUCTION! I have explained this a million times.
where in the world is this 1950 errors out of 2000 coming from, I sure would love to see this.

[devils advocate]

I don't think it matters if you are the largest game seller in the entire universe. That does not exempt you from the same criticisms or expectations that other sellers receive. It doesn't allow a higher margin of error, nor a different set of expectations from the other.. err more marginal sellers that you compare yourself to.
I don't have to read your feedback again. It speaks volumes with interpretation. So does your general attitude, and the way you convey yourself through your posts. I can make a good guess at how your interactions with your customers sound.
You did not even research your own feedback properly, while telling others to do so. You have A MUCH higher rate of unhappy customers than your feedback shows. You are using skewed data to prove your point, and from your responses here and in your feedback file, I would expect nothing less. Justification of your actions I suppose. Or you're just completely oblivious to what a "satisfied" customer really is.

1. Ebay does not calculate neutrals towards your percentage. Your "neutral" reviews are more negative than some of your actual "negative" responses.

2. Ebay does not count "mutually withdrawn" comments towards your feedback. You have 76!! Draw your own conclusions people. But, I certainly would be afraid to leave a negative.. Wouldn't you?

3. Ebay does not count a NEGATIVE "positive" FB towards your rating. You actually have people leaving negative reviews in a postive color, because they are scared of you. You have some people afraid to leave real feedback, because they know that you will leave a neg back REGARDLESS of what really happened in the transaction, while at the same time be called a "liar" or a "scam artist". I read piles of FB's of people who you left negatives towards. In Many, many cases you were the only person to have EVER left that person a negative. And it wasn't polite. You were defamatory, belligerent and down right rude in most cases. Knowing what your reaction to a negative comment will be, how many clients do you think just leave a positive, and never shop with you again, or who just plain pass on leaving any feed back whatsoever out of fear for damaging their own rep.

I'd love for you to spend one month, where you leave all feedback first. Leave a positive if they pay, and you ship. Some sellers can, and DO, do that. I do. I have a 100% positive rating, and have never held a FB "hostage". I have no need to do that. I'd bet that your already skewed rating would be that much worse.

I believe all of the negative FB's in your profile. I normally take all negs with a grain of salt. In your FB profile, the same theme reoccurs almost every time. Either mis represented product, slow or no shipping, or a hassle to get a refund or replacement.

I do area sales for a living, and with a technical product that usually has many issues. If my customer satisfaction rate was anywhere near yours, I would be unemployed.

Some people in sales, instead of saying "I think blah blah blah happy customers out of 100 is pretty good", would look at it, and say "Man, I think with a little effort, and some research I could eliminate nearly all of these unhappy customers and get even more return business as it looks like a lot of the issues are a reoccuring problem.. Maybe, just maybe I'm the one doing something wrong here".

Oh, and don't worry about any sales from me. I only shop with courteous, polite and reputable sellers on Ebay

[ckendal]

IT SAYS MINT IN THE TITLE.. how many times does this have to be explained... God damn, stop being defensive and just admit you made mistakes...

This topic wasn't even meant to turn into this, but jesus... you make people here feel like this... @_@

Am I in the twlight zone or something?!

[fishsandwich]

They didnt list it as mint!!!!
they listed it as GREAT CONDITION! READ THE AUCTION! I have explained this a million times.
where in the world is this 1950 errors out of 2000 coming from, I sure would love to see this.


READ YOU OWN AUCTIONS TITLES DAMMIT


Marble Madness Nintendo NES Complete Mint Like New MIB

[devils advocate]

They didnt list it as mint!!!!
they listed it as GREAT CONDITION! READ THE AUCTION! I have explained this a million times.
where in the world is this 1950 errors out of 2000 coming from, I sure would love to see this.


Holy crap. You even lie to yourself. Here is the auction header.

"Marble Madness Nintendo NES Complete Mint Like New MIB"



Sounds like a pretty perfect game to me. I'd buy that for a dollar... Errr maybe not....

[raregamergirl]

Have I already explained this? Oh, I do think so. Maybe you should read?
Are the box and cart not in mint condition?
Yes or no?
The answer is YES.
Therefore, mint is the correct word to use in the title. The box and cart ARE mint, so part of the package is mint
The manual is NOT and was pictured. The package as a WHOLE was NOT described as mint
The word MINT in the title was pertaining to certain items included.

[ckendal]

where in the world is this 1950 errors out of 2000 coming from, I sure would love to see this.

You said you sell about 2000 items a month and about 1950 of those say mint in the title?? *COUGH*

[ckendal]

Have I already explained this? Oh, I do think so. Maybe you should read?
Are the box and cart not in mint condition?
Yes or no?
The answer is YES.
Therefore, mint is the correct word to use in the title. The box and cart ARE mint, so part of the package is mint
The manual is NOT and was pictured. The package as a WHOLE was NOT described as mint
The word MINT in the title was pertaining to certain items included.

It's called misleading and poor business. END OF STORY.. you are losing this battle like 1 to 100 and you are the only one that thinks it is ok...

SHOCK since you are just trying to defend your mistakes.

[fishsandwich]

Have I already explained this? Oh, I do think so. Maybe you should read?
Are the box and cart not in mint condition?
Yes or no?
The answer is YES.
Therefore, mint is the correct word to use in the title. The box and cart ARE mint, so part of the package is mint
The manual is NOT and was pictured. The package as a WHOLE was NOT described as mint
The word MINT in the title was pertaining to certain items included.


Raregamegirl, I will Paypal you $10 right now if you'll leave these forums right now, take your crazy-ass logic with you, and promise never to return.

You're all about the money anyway...

[devils advocate]

Maybe your auctions should read more like this;


Marble Madness Nintendo NES Complete Mint Like New MIB


up for auction here is a mint (MIB) version of MM. check the picture, and you will see that it is certainly like new, as long as the manufacturer had pissed on it, and torn it before packaging.

Check my other auctions and you will see that I have hundreds of items for sale in at least as good condition.

No worries here! Check my feedback and you will see that I accurately describe my iyems, take time to communicate with my buyers and always attempt to rectify unhappy situations.

PS. Don't worry if everything is not as it described when you receive the product. You can just leave me a negative after I don't respond, and when I leave you YOUR negative response we can mutually withdraw them so that YOUR perfect buying record is not tarnished.

Thanks for your business!

[ckendal]

Alright guys.. enough trash talking...

I think she gets the picture, even though this wasn't the point of the thread...

if somehow, although I doubt it, we can get back on track with the topic that would probably be best

[fishsandwich]

Alright guys.. enough trash talking...

I think she gets the picture, even though this wasn't the point of the thread...

if somehow, although I doubt it, we can get back on track with the topic that would probably be best


That's a fine idea. Let's talk about candy.


http://www.peppermint-web-design.co.uk/images/home/peppermints.gif

[raregamergirl]

And my buyers who actually HAVE purchased my items outnumber YOU 100 to 1! that is the real number to look at. If my auctions were not as described, then why it is the people who feel they are outnumber the ones who dont 200+ to 1? I know the facts, my buyers know the facts. Oh yeah, I am all about money, lol. You know OH SO MUCH about me. Also, for the record, the item was also labelled as MIB in the title. is it NOT mint in the box? all of you fail to look at the whole picture so honestly, your opinions mean zero to me.
If you looked at the whole picture, you would see the facts, The item is not described as mint. certain parts included ARE mint and the title reflects that. Also, this was a quantity auction and 1 of the 2 was mint like new.
also, fascinating so now YOU can grade all my items without even seeing them? wow, please come work for me. Here is a list of my items with the word mint over the past 30 days in the title http://tinyurl.com/feb3s
do not meet my standards for mint.
take a look for yourself.
I use actual photos for ALL my auctions and the grading scale is pretty simple. for disk based games, if they have no scratches, it is mint. considering I rarely if ever buy games with a single scratch, thats a check. Notice how virtually all games labelled mint are disk based items in the first place. Will this change how I list my items. Of course not as they are described correctly and there is no issue. My items sell well and my BUYERS are happy. I have countless amounts of return buyers. I also do not sell only on ebay, I sell a LOT through other venues as well.
If you disagree with my title, then I apologize to you. If I was trying to mislead you, though, then please explain to me why I would use the picture?
I have truly like new copies of the item, why would I not use those?
Is it not fair for me to want to represent certain items included in the title? 2 of the items were mint so I personally deem it completely reasonable to put mint in the title. In the description, I do not label the package as mint.
IF I HAD then I would honestly agree with ALL OF YOU 100 percent.
IF I HAD NOT PICTURED THE ITEM, I would agree with all of you 100 percent.
The point is, there is no misleading. The buyer can look at the picture (which I believe even had gallery on it) and know what they are recieving. They can review the auction to realize the item as a package is not mint.


HYPERLINK EDIT BY GAC: For the love of all that is holy, please use TinyUrl.com! That link was 241 characters!! @_@

[fishsandwich]

Look here... we're talking about CANDY now (mints in particular.) Stay on point.

How about that $10 to just go away?

[ckendal]

Ugh..

I guess this will not end so I am going to keep going...

1) About the 100 to 1 thing... Most of us know that eBay's feedback system is garbage. People won't leave you negatives just so they don't get a negative. That doesn't mean just because you got a + that they agreed with your rating of an item. It just means they didn't want to deal with the hassle.

2) MIB or Mint in box, DOES NOT MEAN that the box is mint. It means that everything, including the box is mint. Learn to correctly use adjectives.

Does anyone else agree here?

[CosmicMonkey]

The point is, there is no misleading. The buyer can look at the picture (which I believe even had gallery on it) and know what they are recieving. They can review the auction to realize the item as a package is not mint.

So wait, you list it as mint in the title, but you have to look at the picture to see that it's not actually mint?!?!?!?! WTF? I think you should refrain from using the word 'mint' in your auctions unless you're selling Polos to be fair.


Look here... we're talking about CANDY now (mints in particular.) Stay on point.

How about that $10 to just go away?

:rocker:

Bring on teh dr@ma!!

Personally, I like sugar coated cola bottles. Or generally any jelly sweets.

[raregamergirl]

actually, wrong on the MIB. MIB was originally meant to describe that the item and the game were mint together in the box. this does not necessarily pertain to the manual.
also, I personally do not agree with you on the feedback system. There is a reason it works and has worked for so long. I have recieved a lot of retalitory neg feedback myself and also from sellers who purchase my items to make me look bad. no system can be perfect, but it as good as it can be.