Nintendo Wii to launch November 19th at $249.99

[SkiDragon]

One shouldn't claim a Cadillac is inexpensive by pointing to a Ferrari.

[sabre2922]

A lot of the things Wii promised, low price, innovative games etc are already being delivered by another console - PS2. I can see PS2 outselling the three next generation consoles for quite a while yet.

I agree with this for the most part as I think both the Wii and Playstation2 will sell more than the next-gen machines especially PS3 if only for the lack of overall # of systems available at launch oh and THE HIGH PRICE TAG @_@

Hell I still see the PS2 sold out at my local Walmart almost all of the time when there are always at least 2-3 Xbox360 systems on the shelf.

Its strange but I read a print article recently how the transition from current gen to next gen doesnt seem to be as alluring to the casual gaming public when compared to back when the PS2 was released.
I know its not easy for all of us fellow gamers here at DP to understand nor fully comprehend but the majority of the gaming public really cant tell MAJOR differences between Xbox360 games (yes even toptier games) and current gen games wether it be PS2,Xbox or Gamecube.

My point is this: The majority of casual gamers seem to be perfectly happy with thier current gen system -specifically PS2- and IMO are looking for something more than slightly prettier/shinier graphics and that is what the Wii will provide.

Sure the Wii isnt a true "next-gen system" as far as the hardware goes BUT its the software and innovation that will bring many casual and new gamers into the fold.

This all means that I see the future being very bright for both the PS2 and the Wii, and a very slooow start for both the next-gen powerhouses Xbox360 and especially Playstation3.

A few examples.

the PS2 provides just about everything a casual (and even hardcore gamer) could want -
#1. Low affordable price
#2.a LARGE library every kind of genre INCLUDING innovative titles: Guitar hero,Okami and many more.
#3.continued 1st and 3rd party support , sorry Xbox and GC.
#4.plays DVD movies that all but the hardcore technophiles are perfectly happy with until Blue-ray or HDdvd becomes more affordable and actually has GOOD MOVIES TO WATCH.

The Wii provides the innovation plus nice graphics that I believe will be more of a driving force for a true transition from current generation to the next generation than the sheer graphical prowess of something like the PS3.

I think many so-called hardcore gamers will be very surprised at how long the PS2 will actually last and at what will most likely be the biggest comeback in videogame history from Nintendo with the Wii.

[zerohero]

I guess I expected the TOTAL amount of buying a Wii and a few extra's like Zelda and another controller to be 249...

But I honestly do feel that Nintendo does, and will apeal to the cansual gamer for some strange reason. I can actually see my mom playing this thing vs the 360 or PS3 in the near future.

[FantasiaWHT]

I can guarantee you they didn't make a profit when they sold the SNES, or the Nintendo 64 or the GameCube. They might not have taken huge losses on those systems, but they didn't make a profit on day 1. This is the first time they are actually making a profit on day 1.

Are you sure on that? Everything I've ever read said that Nintendo has always made a profit right off the bat on their systems.

[Neo Rasa]

I can guarantee you they didn't make a profit when they sold the SNES, or the Nintendo 64 or the GameCube. They might not have taken huge losses on those systems, but they didn't make a profit on day 1. This is the first time they are actually making a profit on day 1.

Are you sure on that? Everything I've ever read said that Nintendo has always made a profit right off the bat on their systems.

Yeah he's incorrect, systems in general were sold at a profit from the major console manufacturers. The first notable excapeion was the PSX, wherein Sony decided pretty late in the game to sell it at a loss in order to undercut the Saturn. If people wonder why there's such a high crap to quality ratio on the Sony systems, it originates here as this is the first major example in the industry of selling the system at a loss and making the real revenue off of licensing fees and selling development kits.

[Mayhem]

Certainly during the computer days of C64, Spectrum, Amiga and so, they were definitely sold at a profit.

[Anthony1]

Yeah he's incorrect, systems in general were sold at a profit from the major console manufacturers. The first notable excapeion was the PSX, wherein Sony decided pretty late in the game to sell it at a loss in order to undercut the Saturn. If people wonder why there's such a high crap to quality ratio on the Sony systems, it originates here as this is the first major example in the industry of selling the system at a loss and making the real revenue off of licensing fees and selling development kits.


I don't think so, again, I said that they may have sold for slightly more than what it cost to bring it to market, but they weren't profit generators from Day 1 like the Wii is going to be. Way back in August of 1991 when the Super Nintendo first launched, the SNES was state of the art technology. Far more advanced than the Genesis or TG-16 and it had Super Mario World packed in, and I think an extra controller too (although I'm not certain on the extra controller part). But fitting all that in for $199.99 was pretty amazing back then when it first was released. If Nintendo was making a profit on the SNES way back then in 1991, it was an extremely small one. Like less than 3 percent. When the Nintendo 64 launched in September of 1996 for $199, again, it was state of the art technology. You know how much money they spent designing that system with Silicon Graphics? Alot. This time a game wasn't packaged in, but still, if the N64 was making a profit at launch, it was extremely minimal.

Same thing with the GameCube in 2001. People seem to forget that the GameCube was much more advanced than the PS2 or Dreamcast. Sure, it might not have been as powerful as a Xbox, but the Cube was pretty much state of the art when it was released. You have to remember that it costs money to bring these systems to market. It isn't just the cost of the system itself, and the packaging and all that, it's getting it from conception to the point when it hits retailers shelves.


All 3 of those systems were sold either at a loss (probably not a huge loss, but still) or at a very minimal profit. The difference with the Wii, is that Nintendo is making a pretty considerable profit on the Wii from Day 1. This is pretty much unheard of in the realm of home video game consoles. It's been the "Give away the razor to sell the Blades" theory for a long time now. This is the first time that somebody is actually making some real money on the Razor on day 1. And if your Nintendo, then you should be extremely pleased with this, because the system is going to sell regardless. So for Nintendo, this is wonderfull news.

[zerohero]

How can it be the "Wii" with only 1 controller in the box? :(

[Andred]

The difference with the Wii, is that Nintendo is making a pretty considerable profit on the Wii from Day 1.

I've agreed with most everything that you've said so far but I have to point out that you have no way of knowing that it is making a "pretty considerable" profit. They simply said that it was a profit. There is absolutely NO data to tell us how much. They could be making $0.47 on these things and that's still profitable or they might only cost $50 to make it and they're making $200 (yes, that's an exaggeration) on each console. We simply don't know and therefore can't speculate. That's my only objection. Otherwise, spot on.

[business]

N-Sider.com has a Wii calculator up on the site. Pretty nifty.

http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=story&storyid=2440

Looks like I will be spending $397.46 on the 19th.

[Neo Rasa]

I really don't understand why this is up for debate. Nintendo itself claims to have never sold a system at a loss. This was reported on numerous sites and magazines whenever it was stated (about a year ago?). This isn't an earth shattering revelation they'd need to exaggerate or lie about as they would be called on it immediately if that were the case.

They work towards optimization instead of putting a ton of super expensive hardware individual pieces of hardware under the hood (even the N64, despite its advanced technology, accomplished this by the time the actual home system was released, with most of the consumer expense coming from the cartridges themselves). You're also making some pretty big assumptions about the build of the Wii when we basically have no real information about what's inside it besides IGN.

Also, naturally the profit margin on the hardware probably isn't gigantic, you even mention that yourself. It being a small profit doesn't invalidate its existence. From a business standpoint, ANY profit is better than a loss, unless your Microsoft and have saved up enough money ahead of time that you can afford to hemmorage it for an entire console generation and then some. Sony rode the current of this method successfully throughout the PS1 and PS2 and while they have the market and by far the most popularity, I think in the generation after this consoles in general will be more efficiently assembled.

[Anthony1]

I've agreed with most everything that you've said so far but I have to point out that you have no way of knowing that it is making a "pretty considerable" profit. They simply said that it was a profit. There is absolutely NO data to tell us how much. They could be making $0.47 on these things and that's still profitable or they might only cost $50 to make it and they're making $200 (yes, that's an exaggeration) on each console. We simply don't know and therefore can't speculate. That's my only objection. Otherwise, spot on.


Well, it's pretty easy to determine that their profit is considerable, when you consider what a Wii is. It's an enhanced GameCube. A souped up GameCube. Nintendo currently sells brand new GameCube's for $79.99, and they are likely making a small profit off of them, even at that price. So let's say for argument's sake that it cost them $60 to manufacture a GameCube (it's probably quite a bit less by now). With the Wii being a souped up Cube, you would have to expect that while it costs more than $60 to manufacture, it probably doesn't cost a tremendous amount more. Let's just say for the sake of argument that it costs them double to manufacture a Wii (probably costs them less, but lets be on the safe side). That would take it to $120. Then let's look at the controller and nunchaku. The controller sells individually for $39.99 and the nunchaku sells for $19.99. That's $60 total, but I'm guessing they manufacture it for less than half that, but lets be generous and say it's half. Ok, that's $30. Now we are at $150.00. The AC Adapter, included cables, packaging, Wii Sports disk an manual, probably cost less than $20, but lets be on the safe side and say that it costs $20. That takes us to $170. Now, to be extra safe, lets add another $10 on top, just for any extra things we might be forgetting. Ok, now we are at $180. Personally, I think it doesn't even cost them close to $180 to bring that package to market, but for the sake of argument, I'll agree that it's $180. Then they have to sell it to retailers. The retailers get a cut. Normally retailers buy consoles for a few dollars less than retail and don't make anything off it, but with Nintendo talking about how they are making a profit from Jump Street, they have to give the retailer a cut too, or they would piss them off to a large degree. I'll say that retailers get to purchase the Wii for about $235 and sell it for $249.99.


So if you conisder all that, then Nintendo is likely making somewhere in the neighborhood of $55 profit off each Wii sold. If you do the math, $54.9978 is 22 percent profit on the $249.99 product. For a video game console launch, 22 percent profit is definitely considerable. Now, you can say that I pulled all those numbers out of my ass, and you would be right, but..... There have been reports on various websites that the Wii costs about $170 to manufacture, sure these reports are unsubstantiated, but $170 is right in line with my $180 prediction. You can consider my numbers to be total bullshit, and nowhere near the truth, but I'm guessing I'm within 10 percent of a correct guess on either side of the equation.

[j_factor]

I suppose that's true, you make some good points, so perhaps I was a little offbase in saying 199 was dreamland. But personally I didn't expect 199 for a second. Besides, you have to remember that these are global companies. 199 USD ain't what it was before Dubya took over, for better or for worse (that's an argument for another time but the fact is the USD has declined). To the extent that nintendo's costs are in yen, it takes more USD to break even/ make a profit than it used to.

The US dollar may be weak in the global market right now, but so is the yen. The US-Japan exchange rate is actually about even with what it was in 2001.

Gamecube launched in Japan for 25000 yen (approx. $215 then) and in the US for $199.
Wii is launching in Japan for 25000 yen (approx. $215 today) and in the US for $249.

Last time, we got our systems cheaper (which is the norm), but this time we're paying more than the Japanese. Granted, Japan doesn't get Wii Sports with their systems, but the cost on that game ain't $35+.

[Neo Rasa]

Actually that just reminded me of something. I think Nintendo will REALLY be making their hardware profit off controller sales in the US.

[GarrettCRW]

I'll say that retailers get to purchase the Wii for about $235 and sell it for $249.99.

This is about the only thing in your last post that I even begin to agree with. Target got $8 per PS2 sold at launch, IIRC. (The games and other goodies had a significantly higher margin, hence why everyone down the supply chain encourages game and accessory sales.)

But the claims about the Wii being little more than a Gamecube 1.5? Please stop. You've been bitching about this system seemingly since Nintendo said that the Wii wouldn't satisfy your inner (and outer) graphics whore. You ain't big on the Wii. We get it. Now deal.

Until this thing launches, and we get more info on what makes it tick, there is absolutely no way any of us can accurately estimate the money per system Nintendo is making. What we do know is that it's a hell of a lot more than Sony is taking in for the PS3, and probably more than Microsoft with the 360. Besides, as Joe would say, the bottom line is the games. Are they fun? Do they bring something new to the table? That, ultimately, is what will win the day in this generation, not whining about the cost of System A vs. System B or whether or not one company is screwing us over with accessory prices (hint: they all are!). To paraphrase a wiser man than I, It's about the games, stupid.

[Neo Rasa]

We can't at this point since the only games coming out that there are several screenshots of are by Ubisoft or have a graphical style that defies what most people are looking for (i.e., not photorealistic graphics).

[Princess-Isabela]

even if Nintendo is making profit, well.........GOOD FOR THEM!

[Icarus Moonsight]

All this shit is getting real stupid; "Wii isn't next-gen", "Waaaa, it's too expensive", "OMG, evil nasty Nintendo is making a PROFIT!!! Those bastards!", "Pack-in game? That's an antiquated practice now isn't it? Boo to Nintendo!" and all the other pointless dribble being oozed into an otherwise worthwhile thread. It's all well and good to disagree... but first be sure your standing on firm ground before sharing your opinions. Otherwise, you just end up playing asshat on the internet.

Saber had an excellent point that seems to have been washed over by BS. The casual gamer IS having a difficult time seeing the generational improvement from last to this. Hell, I'm having a problem seeing a marked improvement to tell you the truth and I've been rockin' a joystick for 20 years now. While Wii may not have the technical horsepower you'd expect in a next-gen system, I find it refreshing that Nintendo rather than making Wii a hardware increment over the Gamecube chose to focus on something the consumer would instantly see as an obvious difference... Interface!!! Nintendo must have realized that something different would have to be done to hit that wow-factor that the previous generations of gaming systems have produced with pretty eye candy. Semiconductors are reaching their limit in power (barring a revolutionary new technology that allows them to tap more power out of them of course). Why else do you think that CPU's are multi-core these days? It's not because it's the most cost effective way to improve performance, but rather the only way.

Look at Wii again and tell me, it is not worth $250. Wiimote tech is a huge leap forward, and anyone can experience this when the kiosks hit stores. I have a feeling there will be lines in retail aisles full of people waiting to see what this "updated Gamecube" can do. Think that I'm high? Think again. Parallel the DS to Wii, they are quite simular. Both are technologicly inferior to the competition it all aspects except INTERFACE! I'll admit, I thought the DS was going to be horrible. A veritable trainwreck that could only visit the Virtual Boy at Christmas and be excluded from all Nintendo family functions forever due to it's suckitude. And nearly two years latter where are we now? Exactly. If it wasn't for the DS I'd probably join right in with the bitch squad, but the DS experience I've had this last year has helped me to trust Nintendo and see where they are going with the whole Wii thing.

This post will be avaliable in it's unabridged book form this Monday morning @ 7am EST at amazon.com. My apologies to Anthony for messing around in his balliwick of longer-than-hell-sayz-they-should-be posts.

[FantasiaWHT]

Anthony, I agree with your analysis about the earlier systems, but you are basing your entire argument that the Wii is making a much more significant profit than any of Nintendo's previous systems on the mere SPECULATION that the Wii isn't a significant improvement over the Gamecube.

Can't buy that one yet. There's a chance it may turn out to be true, but as of now it's pure speculation.

[Anthony1]

All this shit is getting real stupid; "Wii isn't next-gen", "Waaaa, it's too expensive", "OMG, evil nasty Nintendo is making a PROFIT!!! Those bastards!", "Pack-in game? That's an antiquated practice now isn't it? Boo to Nintendo!" and all the other pointless dribble being oozed into an otherwise worthwhile thread. It's all well and good to disagree... but first be sure your standing on firm ground before sharing your opinions. Otherwise, you just end up playing asshat on the internet.


I'll go ahead and assume that all of the above comments are directed at me. The reason I make my threads long, is to make a real attempt at not having my statements and comments "mis-interpreted". Unfortunately, it appears that this is impossible, because everybody seems to come away with the general idea that I'm anti-Nintendo and anti-Wii and all that crap. I'll say it once, and I'll say it a thousand times, I'm buying a Wii on day one, and I sure as heck wouldn't be buying one, if I wasn't excited about getting one. I'm not going to drop $300+ on something that I have no interest in. I'm very excited about the possibilities of gaming on the Wii.


At the same time, that doesn't mean that it's impossible for anything about the Wii to bother me or slightly irritate me. Take the Star Wars prequels for example. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, and I actually like all 3 prequels. But I can also nitpick the living hell out of all 3. Overall, I like all three movies, even Phantom Menace, but I can also give you a long list of things about those movies that bother me to no end. The Wii is very similar. I like the Wii, and plan on getting one the second they are available. I'm going to spend over $350 on Wii related items on that first day. But it doesn't mean that every single thing Wii related is sunshine and rainbows. Sure I would love the Wii to be cheaper, and sure I would love the Wii to be a little more powerful, but that doesn't mean I'm anti-Wii or anti-Nintendo. I don't understand why some of the people in this thread are getting this impression. I'm not sure they are really reading my actual posts, or reading one or two sentences, and then immediately forming some opinion that I'm anti-Nintendo. It's like they read one or two sentences, get really mad, and then hit the quote button and immediately start attacking me.


Also, regarding Nintendo making a profit, I could care less if they are making a profit. That's their business. I'm not crying about that in the least. Somebody questioned whether or not they were really making a profit and how much of one, and I gave my opinion, but I'm not saddened in any way that they are making a profit from Jump Street. Good for them. I'm not anti-capitalism or anything like that.

[Garry Silljo]

All this shit is getting real stupid; "Wii isn't next-gen", "Waaaa, it's too expensive", "OMG, evil nasty Nintendo is making a PROFIT!!! Those bastards!", "Pack-in game? That's an antiquated practice now isn't it? Boo to Nintendo!" and all the other pointless dribble being oozed into an otherwise worthwhile thread. It's all well and good to disagree... but first be sure your standing on firm ground before sharing your opinions. Otherwise, you just end up playing asshat on the internet.


I'll go ahead and assume that all of the above comments are directed at me. The reason I make my threads long, is to make a real attempt at not having my statements and comments "mis-interpreted". Unfortunately, it appears that this is impossible, because everybody seems to come away with the general idea that I'm anti-Nintendo and anti-Wii and all that crap. I'll say it once, and I'll say it a thousand times, I'm buying a Wii on day one, and I sure as heck wouldn't be buying one, if I wasn't excited about getting one. I'm not going to drop $300+ on something that I have no interest in. I'm very excited about the possibilities of gaming on the Wii.


At the same time, that doesn't mean that it's impossible for anything about the Wii to bother me or slightly irritate me. Take the Star Wars prequels for example. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, and I actually like all 3 prequels. But I can also nitpick the living hell out of all 3. Overall, I like all three movies, even Phantom Menace, but I can also give you a long list of things about those movies that bother me to no end. The Wii is very similar. I like the Wii, and plan on getting one the second they are available. I'm going to spend over $350 on Wii related items on that first day. But it doesn't mean that every single thing Wii related is sunshine and rainbows. Sure I would love the Wii to be cheaper, and sure I would love the Wii to be a little more powerful, but that doesn't mean I'm anti-Wii or anti-Nintendo. I don't understand why some of the people in this thread are getting this impression. I'm not sure they are really reading my actual posts, or reading one or two sentences, and then immediately forming some opinion that I'm anti-Nintendo. It's like they read one or two sentences, get really mad, and then hit the quote button and immediately start attacking me.


Also, regarding Nintendo making a profit, I could care less if they are making a profit. That's their business. I'm not crying about that in the least. Somebody questioned whether or not they were really making a profit and how much of one, and I gave my opinion, but I'm not saddened in any way that they are making a profit from Jump Street. Good for them. I'm not anti-capitalism or anything like that.

Are you tired? You've done a lot of back peddling.You bitch about things in one post, and then claim not be bothered by them in the next, and repeat on an endless loop. What's worse is you repeat the same stuff over and over and when some one doesnt agree with you, you take disagreement as not understanding, and then say it again, and again, and again. I'm confused ... do you yhink Wii is a soped up Gamecube????? Please, don't answer that.

[BrokenFlight]

Are you tired? You've done a lot of back peddling.You bitch about things in one post, and then claim not be bothered by them in the next, and repeat on an endless loop. What's worse is you repeat the same stuff over and over and when some one doesnt agree with you, you take disagreement as not understanding, and then say it again, and again, and again. I'm confused ... do you yhink Wii is a soped up Gamecube????? Please, don't answer that.



I don't know why you think you mean a lot to me.

Do you honestly not know? Nearly every post you've made recently has been attacking Anthony. I'm not going to take sides but you're getting pretty annoying.

[Anthony1]

You bitch about things in one post, and then claim not be bothered by them in the next, and repeat on an endless loop.



Well, the things that I've been "supposedly" bitching about, like the $249.99 price, and the power of the system, I don't think I would qualify them as bitching, more like gripes. Sure, I would prefer no pack in and a $199.99 price, and I would also prefer the system to be more of a real next gen system, but these are just minor gripes. They really aren't that big of a deal. Reactions to my posts have made them a big deal, and I've come back in to defend my original takes. The reason why I'm not bothered by them, is because they were never that big of a deal in the first place. It's just more general whinning if you will.


It's like somebody bitching about the price of gas before filling up their tank with 89 octane. The big mistake is that I did it in a forum with alot of hardcore Nintendo lovers and every little gripe I had was turned into me being a huge Anti-Nintendo guy. So when the posts popped up, telling me to fuck off and such, I tried to kinda defend myself.

[Lord_Magus]

Unlike their competition, Nintendo focuses on optimizing and properly desiging their systems, something which undoubtedly takes a large amount of time and effort. (http://wii.nintendo.com/iwata_asks_vol1_p1.html) Who is naive enough to overlook that they managed to cram a system 2-3 times more powerful than the Gamecube in a shell which doesn't exceed the size of 3 DVD cases?

Anyway, the bottom line is this: Nintendo makes quality hardware. Although the Wii may not be the powerhouse the 360 and PS3 are, using the Gamecube as the base for the Wii has allowed Nintendo the following advantages:

1) Nintendo can actually make a profit on their systems from day one, and not lose millions of dollars by essentially buying their position in the marketplace
2) The consumer doesn't have to pay out of the ass for the Wii
3) Reliability. You won't need to spend even more money fixing the console every few months
4) Instant backwards compatibility without any hassles
5) Easy game development and low development costs (many companies have felt encouraged to make games for the Wii because of this).
6) Last time I checked, the Wii dev kit will be sold for as low as $2000. Combined with 5, this implies increased 3rd party support.
7) The console doesn't look like a redesigned PC :P

So in the end, both Nintendo and the consumers benefit from it. You may not be getting the graphical power of its competitors, but you'll be getting a system powerful enough to produce high-quality games, which is all that matters. If anyone here isn't happy with playing games that look 2-3 times as good as Resident Evil 4, then maybe you should examine your eyes or simply switch to PC gaming instead. ;)

[Garry Silljo]

Well, the things that I've been "supposedly" bitching about, like the $249.99 price, and the power of the system, I don't think I would qualify them as bitching, more like gripes. Sure, I would prefer no pack in and a $199.99 price, and I would also prefer the system to be more of a real next gen system, but these are just minor gripes. They really aren't that big of a deal. Reactions to my posts have made them a big deal, and I've come back in to defend my original takes. The reason why I'm not bothered by them, is because they were never that big of a deal in the first place. It's just more general whinning if you will.


So you are defending the use of certain adjectives against you instead of the actual allegations? Bitching, griping, whinning. Do you realize these words all mean the same thing? Honestly, I know my being annoyed by you annoys others, and I try to stay awya, because for someone who thinks there is a dark well drawn line between words that mean the same thing, you can't win. However, since you post this tripe almost EVERYWHERE, the only way to avoid you is to not come here at all. I like it here. I'll just try harder to stomach you ..... and figure out your new English.

For those of you who don't enjoy my bitching about Anthony, I'm not bitching... I'm whinning .... Good save huh Anthony! :roll:

[Garry Silljo]

Are you tired? You've done a lot of back peddling.You bitch about things in one post, and then claim not be bothered by them in the next, and repeat on an endless loop. What's worse is you repeat the same stuff over and over and when some one doesnt agree with you, you take disagreement as not understanding, and then say it again, and again, and again. I'm confused ... do you yhink Wii is a soped up Gamecube????? Please, don't answer that.



I don't know why you think you mean a lot to me.

Do you honestly not know? Nearly every post you've made recently has been attacking Anthony. I'm not going to take sides but you're getting pretty annoying.

Yes, I know. I'm tired of it myself. I've tried to walk away twice before, but he has no off switch, not even a slower speed. How covered in flies can a man get before he just has to start swatting wildly? I promise I'll TRY to police my frustrations in other ways in the future. All the blame can't be on me though, there's two of us, and only one of us is even TRYING to stand down.

[Frankie23]

I've agreed with most everything that you've said so far but I have to point out that you have no way of knowing that it is making a "pretty considerable" profit. They simply said that it was a profit. There is absolutely NO data to tell us how much. They could be making $0.47 on these things and that's still profitable or they might only cost $50 to make it and they're making $200 (yes, that's an exaggeration) on each console. We simply don't know and therefore can't speculate. That's my only objection. Otherwise, spot on.


Well, it's pretty easy to determine that their profit is considerable, when you consider what a Wii is. It's an enhanced GameCube. A souped up GameCube. Nintendo currently sells brand new GameCube's for $79.99, and they are likely making a small profit off of them, even at that price. So let's say for argument's sake that it cost them $60 to manufacture a GameCube (it's probably quite a bit less by now). With the Wii being a souped up Cube, you would have to expect that while it costs more than $60 to manufacture, it probably doesn't cost a tremendous amount more. Let's just say for the sake of argument that it costs them double to manufacture a Wii (probably costs them less, but lets be on the safe side). That would take it to $120. Then let's look at the controller and nunchaku. The controller sells individually for $39.99 and the nunchaku sells for $19.99. That's $60 total, but I'm guessing they manufacture it for less than half that, but lets be generous and say it's half. Ok, that's $30. Now we are at $150.00. The AC Adapter, included cables, packaging, Wii Sports disk an manual, probably cost less than $20, but lets be on the safe side and say that it costs $20. That takes us to $170. Now, to be extra safe, lets add another $10 on top, just for any extra things we might be forgetting. Ok, now we are at $180. Personally, I think it doesn't even cost them close to $180 to bring that package to market, but for the sake of argument, I'll agree that it's $180. Then they have to sell it to retailers. The retailers get a cut. Normally retailers buy consoles for a few dollars less than retail and don't make anything off it, but with Nintendo talking about how they are making a profit from Jump Street, they have to give the retailer a cut too, or they would piss them off to a large degree. I'll say that retailers get to purchase the Wii for about $235 and sell it for $249.99.


So if you conisder all that, then Nintendo is likely making somewhere in the neighborhood of $55 profit off each Wii sold. If you do the math, $54.9978 is 22 percent profit on the $249.99 product. For a video game console launch, 22 percent profit is definitely considerable. Now, you can say that I pulled all those numbers out of my ass, and you would be right, but..... There have been reports on various websites that the Wii costs about $170 to manufacture, sure these reports are unsubstantiated, but $170 is right in line with my $180 prediction. You can consider my numbers to be total bullshit, and nowhere near the truth, but I'm guessing I'm within 10 percent of a correct guess on either side of the equation.

Do you not understand the concept of Reasearch and Development? Nintendo's "cost" on each Wii unit is more than just the base materials, it's all the money that has gone into developing and refining them. Just looking at the materials used in it's construction is just looking at half of the picture. Realistically, you won't be able to figure out the average cost of constructing a Wii retail package until they stop producing the damn thing, and go back and analyze each step of the way. Even then, it'd be damn near impossible.

[Frankie23]

I guess I expected the TOTAL amount of buying a Wii and a few extra's like Zelda and another controller to be 249...

But I honestly do feel that Nintendo does, and will apeal to the cansual gamer for some strange reason. I can actually see my mom playing this thing vs the 360 or PS3 in the near future.

Huh? What, did you think it was going to be a $150 system, with a $40 controller and $60 Zelda? Your math is a bit off, my boy-o. I do completely agree with your second point though; I can easily see my mom playing Wii Golf and loving it. Not so much with Halo.

[Icarus Moonsight]

All this shit is getting real stupid; "Wii isn't next-gen", "Waaaa, it's too expensive", "OMG, evil nasty Nintendo is making a PROFIT!!! Those bastards!", "Pack-in game? That's an antiquated practice now isn't it? Boo to Nintendo!" and all the other pointless dribble being oozed into an otherwise worthwhile thread. It's all well and good to disagree... but first be sure your standing on firm ground before sharing your opinions. Otherwise, you just end up playing asshat on the internet.


I'll go ahead and assume that all of the above comments are directed at me. The reason I make my threads long, is to make a real attempt at not having my statements and comments "mis-interpreted". Unfortunately, it appears that this is impossible, because everybody seems to come away with the general idea that I'm anti-Nintendo and anti-Wii and all that crap. I'll say it once, and I'll say it a thousand times, I'm buying a Wii on day one, and I sure as heck wouldn't be buying one, if I wasn't excited about getting one. I'm not going to drop $300+ on something that I have no interest in. I'm very excited about the possibilities of gaming on the Wii.

The above was directed at more posters than just you Anthony. Of whom I was refering to, you do seem to be the ringleader or majorette of the spewage of ofal bitchiness. The only parallel I can draw between us in this regard is I really love my PS2 games; Guitar Hero, Katamari and soon Okami ect. On the otherhand I dispise the PS2 hardware. My "gripe" is not some intangable feeling or a under-realization of an prelaunch expectation. My "whine" is having to buy 3 systems to play those games I enjoy so. Two at $300 and the other at $200 for a total of $800 just in Sony POS hardware. I felt trapped into two of these purchases due to the amount of time and money I put into the systems software and I never want to go through that on a current gen gaming system again... ever. I may have bought the PStwo slim even if my first system lasted long enough, but at this point who knows. *shrug* Only thing I do know is that it is extreamly unlikely that I will be onboard with Sony again until they shape up... IF they survive. The strength of the PS2 install-base makes this quite possible if not assured.

Switching gears(companies): I'm still on my first Gamecube which I paid $150 for and recieved a pack-in game!!! (OMFG! LOL sorry couldn't help it) The pack-in was Zelda: Collectors Edition. This inclusion tipped the scales on my decision to buy a Gamecube. So yeah, I do consider poo poo'ing a pack-in game kinda odd, because it is exactly what people want.

In my house, the Gamecube has delivered more fun than the PS2's have, dollar for dollar. Yet, I'd place them both equal as far as an overall experience... save for quality, which the GC had in spades by comparison. Value, fun and quality. Kinda hard to bitch about that. :D

So now that I have shared a little more can you not understand why I am just a little befuddled? I am by no means attacking you Anthony and if I gave that impression I apologize. I happen to be very confused by your posts. They seem to be bi-polar one day and manic the next. The crack about post-length was just that, a crack. I've noticed you getting shelled lately and I couldn't help but push the shiney-red glowing button. I am a sarcastic and cynical person by nature and sometimes that rubs people the wrong way and really it doesn't bother me so much. My personality doesn't translate well into text, but who's does? That said, I just can't stand wasting my time reading huge dissertations about how expensive the cheapest gaming system is. It's so illogical it makes my skin crawl. This also leads me to belive that your opinion is based off of bias rather than experience, because hell, the Wii or damn PS3 isn't even out yet... What experience are you speaking from? At this point we all have to be objective.

My cheif complaint is I'm left reading really long posts that go NOWHERE. Hoping that somewhere your part of the discussion will take off then I'm left with little but a big giant WTF?!?... I can't understand, relate or even comprehend. You'd be a little fumed too me thinks.

So... how about that Wii eh? What launch games are you guys looking to pick up? I am a little let down that Prime 3 got pushed back. Even still, Wii has one of the best launch line-ups in game history IMO. At the very least, since the DC launch 9.9.99. Would have been cool if Sony or Nintendo launched June 6th this year 6.6.06. LOL

Damien Inside... to hell with Intel. :P

[Bronty-2]

That said, I just can't stand wasting my time reading huge dissertations about how expensive the cheapest gaming system is. It's so illogical it makes my skin crawl. This also leads me to belive that your opinion is based off of bias rather than experience, because hell, the Wii or damn PS3 isn't even out yet... What experience are you speaking from? At this point we all have to be objective.

My cheif complaint is I'm left reading really long posts that go NOWHERE. :P

amen

[Fuyukaze]

For a not for profit company like Nintendo, they are charging too much money for their Atari 2600 version 1.5. Seriously, this has got to be the biggest joke ever! Sony's new Playstation 3 looks alot more affordable at it's $600 price then Nintendo's $250 price tag. I can spent twice the price...wait...twice the price? Your f'n joking me right? TWICE THE DAMNED PRICE????? THAT'S CHEAPER??? I may be simple minded. I may even be slow. Even I can see where twice the price means MORE MONEY SPENT. Exactly when did Nintendo set any prices in stone? Exactly when has Nintendo agreed to sell their hardware at a loss? Who did they make this agreement with? If you hate Nintendo and want them to go under, that's fine. Sometimes people hate things for no better a reason then to just hate it. I hate spinich an cabbage. I also hate the Houston Texans. I even hate the Lifetime telivision network. I wont give BS reasons to justify it though.

[SkiDragon]

http://ruliweb2.dreamwiz.com/ruliboard/read.htm?num=4687&table=game_nin02&main=nin

Take a look. Somebody took apart a numchuck attachment. Basically, like I thought, it's a third of a normal controller with an accelerometer thrown in. No way in hell that should be $20.

[business]

http://ruliweb2.dreamwiz.com/ruliboard/read.htm?num=4687&table=game_nin02&main=nin

Take a look. Somebody took apart a numchuck attachment. Basically, like I thought, it's a third of a normal controller with an accelerometer thrown in. No way in hell that should be $20.

I have absolutely no clue what you just said, but I agree with you.

fucking accelerometer...

[jajaja]

lol that piece of plastic and the little board cost $20 ? :) Well.. development costs is also included + they want to make money.

[Anthony1]

For a not for profit company like Nintendo, they are charging too much money for their Atari 2600 version 1.5. Seriously, this has got to be the biggest joke ever! Sony's new Playstation 3 looks alot more affordable at it's $600 price then Nintendo's $250 price tag. I can spent twice the price...wait...twice the price? Your f'n joking me right? TWICE THE DAMNED PRICE????? THAT'S CHEAPER??? I may be simple minded. I may even be slow. Even I can see where twice the price means MORE MONEY SPENT. Exactly when did Nintendo set any prices in stone? Exactly when has Nintendo agreed to sell their hardware at a loss? Who did they make this agreement with? If you hate Nintendo and want them to go under, that's fine. Sometimes people hate things for no better a reason then to just hate it. I hate spinich an cabbage. I also hate the Houston Texans. I even hate the Lifetime telivision network. I wont give BS reasons to justify it though.



Ever heard of the word "value"? Apparently not. Something could cost $100, and have more value than a similar item priced at $10. The people that are saying the Wii is super cheap compared to the 360 and PS3 are totally missing the point. The Wii can't be compared to those systems. The Wii is a souped up version of the 5 year old GameCube. You can't compare that directly with true next-gen technology. Comparing the Wii against those other 2 consoles is pretty pointless.


Also, you, like some of the others in this thread, seem to think I hate Nintendo. Considering the Super Nintendo is my favorite video game system of all time, that's kinda strange. The SNES is my favorite system of all time, (primarily because of Nintendo's own games!) yet I hate Nintendo. Yeah...right.


Now, please don't twist my words up, and think that I'm saying the 360 or PS3 has more "value" than the Wii, because I didn't say that. What I did say is that there is a word called "value" that you seem to be forgetting. It's not just about the price of the system. It's about what you are getting for the price. Also, please understand that while I think Nintendo is overcharging for the Wii, I totally understand why they are doing it, and I also believe that they aren't overcharging by that huge a margin. This really isn't that big a deal. Again, I'm going to be in line on November 17th, with $350+ in hand to get my Nintendo Wii, and a extra Wii-mote and Nunchuck. If I really hated Nintendo or the Wii, why the hell would I spend $350 of my hard earned cash on it? Sure, I would prefer the Wii to be $199.99 with or without a pack in, and I would prefer the extra Wii-motes and nunchucks to be a little bit more affordable, but this isn't that big a freaking deal. Get over it! It's a minor gripe for me, and nothing more, why are you trying to blow this thing way out of proportion? Since when did it become illegal to make any complaints against Nintendo? I was pissed off last year about the 360 having two versions, one without a hard drive and one with, yet nobody got on my ass about that. x_x

[Fuyukaze]

Ever heard of the word "value"? Apparently not. Something could cost $100, and have more value than a similar item priced at $10.

Actualy I do know of this odd little word called "value". It's a term often subject to the biased opinions of the one using it in an effort to overlook actual prices. Something could have thousands worth of hardware in it for half the cost, and yet still be more expensive then comparable items. Considering it to have more value is realy up to the consumer though because if they cant afford it, the cheaper will always look to have the most "value" to it. Realy, it's all in the eye of the beholder on this one.


The people that are saying the Wii is super cheap compared to the 360 and PS3 are totally missing the point.

249.99 vs 299.99/399.99 vs 499.99/599.99. Those prices are a point I'm not missing. Perhaps you and your gifted "math" skills could help point out where pricing differences dont matter any?


The Wii can't be compared to those systems. The Wii is a souped up version of the 5 year old GameCube.You can't compare that directly with true next-gen technology. Comparing the Wii against those other 2 consoles is pretty pointless.


This is getting old. The only comparison between the three is the one thing that matters most to the casual gamer. Price. Dispite the general feeling on this and a number of other gaming boards, we are still the minority when it comes to gaming purchases. That's right. We are a minority. It may not have the proccesors of the PS3, it may not even have the same as 360. Its got a great price and that gives it a better start then either of the other two.


Also, you, like some of the others in this thread, seem to think I hate Nintendo. Considering the Super Nintendo is my favorite video game system of all time, that's kinda strange. The SNES is my favorite system of all time, (primarily because of Nintendo's own games!) yet I hate Nintendo. Yeah...right.
This is a bit off as I never exactly said you hated Nintendo but said "If you hate Nintendo....". I never realy thought of you as someone who hates a particular gaming company or one who loves a particular company either. Honestly I've always thought of you more as a gaming parasite. Someone who's actualy more of a parasite then a gamer. By your own admision you only rent unless the title's been heavly discounted. That kinda makes you a parasite by definition. Also I'm surprised you'd list the SNES as a favorite. I consider it one of the best systems if not the best Nintendo has ever released. Perhaps you could let me know the online rental place you use that still has SNES games for rental?



Now, please don't twist my words up, and think that I'm saying the 360 or PS3 has more "value" than the Wii, because I didn't say that. What I did say is that there is a word called "value" that you seem to be forgetting. It's not just about the price of the system. It's about what you are getting for the price. Also, please understand that while I think Nintendo is overcharging for the Wii, I totally understand why they are doing it, and I also believe that they aren't overcharging by that huge a margin. This really isn't that big a deal.

Sure, I would prefer the Wii to be $199.99 with or without a pack in, and I would prefer the extra Wii-motes and nunchucks to be a little bit more affordable, but this isn't that big a freaking deal. Get over it! It's a minor gripe for me, and nothing more, why are you trying to blow this thing way out of proportion? Since when did it become illegal to make any complaints against Nintendo? I was pissed off last year about the 360 having two versions, one without a hard drive and one with, yet nobody got on my ass about that. x_x

I could almost believe you except you've done great to damage your arguments as well as your defense. Within almost every thread concerning the Wii you've brought up the price and your value mathmatics over how expensive the Wii is. I'd perfer everything to be more affordable. I'd like it if games could be affordable. Systems could be affordable. You know what I wish for more, afordable rent. It's not become illegal to make complaints about any game company. In fact, it's often incouraged exspecialy when the arguments for or against are valid. You come off as being bitchy and whiny though because you leave the impresion of that's all you do. You've been here long enough. Isnt it time you stop looking at everything with your rose colored glasses? For the record, I personaly think the Wii will fail on the simple ground that everything about it shouts out Dreamcast. Great games, new inovation, and a nice price. Everything most modern gamers want. Just missing the 4 letters some want on their system.



Again, I'm going to be in line on November 17th, with $350+ in hand to get my Nintendo Wii, and a extra Wii-mote and Nunchuck. If I really hated Nintendo or the Wii, why the hell would I spend $350 of my hard earned cash on it?
Who was it that said their plans was to pick one up, never open it, and then sell it on E-bay? Profit makes one hell of a motivation for buying stuff you normaly wouldnt. People do it all the time. Baseball cards, comics, beanie babies, tickle me elmo dolls and so much more are good examples. Realy, this is funny.

useless adition:
Oh, and some recent polls are even claiming the gender break down of those buying games puts women at over 40 percent.

[Fuyukaze]

Ever heard of the word "value"? Apparently not. Something could cost $100, and have more value than a similar item priced at $10.

Actualy I do know of this odd little word called "value". It's a term often subject to the biased opinions of the one using it in an effort to overlook actual prices. Something could have thousands worth of hardware in it for half the cost, and yet still be more expensive then comparable items. Considering it to have more value is realy up to the consumer though because if they cant afford it, the cheaper will always look to have the most "value" to it. Realy, it's all in the eye of the beholder on this one.


The people that are saying the Wii is super cheap compared to the 360 and PS3 are totally missing the point.

249.99 vs 299.99/399.99 vs 499.99/599.99. Those prices are a point I'm not missing. Perhaps you and your gifted "math" skills could help point out where pricing differences dont matter any?


The Wii can't be compared to those systems. The Wii is a souped up version of the 5 year old GameCube.You can't compare that directly with true next-gen technology. Comparing the Wii against those other 2 consoles is pretty pointless.


This is getting old. The only comparison between the three is the one thing that matters most to the casual gamer. Price. Dispite the general feeling on this and a number of other gaming boards, we are still the minority when it comes to gaming purchases. That's right. We are a minority. It may not have the proccesors of the PS3, it may not even have the same as 360. Its got a great price and that gives it a better start then either of the other two.


Also, you, like some of the others in this thread, seem to think I hate Nintendo. Considering the Super Nintendo is my favorite video game system of all time, that's kinda strange. The SNES is my favorite system of all time, (primarily because of Nintendo's own games!) yet I hate Nintendo. Yeah...right.
This is a bit off as I never exactly said you hated Nintendo but said "If you hate Nintendo....". I never realy thought of you as someone who hates a particular gaming company or one who loves a particular company either. Honestly I've always thought of you more as a gaming parasite. Someone who's actualy more of a parasite then a gamer. By your own admision you only rent unless the title's been heavly discounted. That kinda makes you a parasite by definition. Also I'm surprised you'd list the SNES as a favorite. I consider it one of the best systems if not the best Nintendo has ever released. Perhaps you could let me know the online rental place you use that still has SNES games for rental?



Now, please don't twist my words up, and think that I'm saying the 360 or PS3 has more "value" than the Wii, because I didn't say that. What I did say is that there is a word called "value" that you seem to be forgetting. It's not just about the price of the system. It's about what you are getting for the price. Also, please understand that while I think Nintendo is overcharging for the Wii, I totally understand why they are doing it, and I also believe that they aren't overcharging by that huge a margin. This really isn't that big a deal.

Sure, I would prefer the Wii to be $199.99 with or without a pack in, and I would prefer the extra Wii-motes and nunchucks to be a little bit more affordable, but this isn't that big a freaking deal. Get over it! It's a minor gripe for me, and nothing more, why are you trying to blow this thing way out of proportion? Since when did it become illegal to make any complaints against Nintendo? I was pissed off last year about the 360 having two versions, one without a hard drive and one with, yet nobody got on my ass about that. x_x

I could almost believe you except you've done great to damage your arguments as well as your defense. Within almost every thread concerning the Wii you've brought up the price and your value mathmatics over how expensive the Wii is. I'd perfer everything to be more affordable. I'd like it if games could be affordable. Systems could be affordable. You know what I wish for more, afordable rent. It's not become illegal to make complaints about any game company. In fact, it's often incouraged exspecialy when the arguments for or against are valid. You come off as being bitchy and whiny though because you leave the impresion of that's all you do. You've been here long enough. Isnt it time you stop looking at everything with your rose colored glasses? For the record, I personaly think the Wii will fail on the simple ground that everything about it shouts out Dreamcast. Great games, new inovation, and a nice price. Everything most modern gamers want. Just missing the 4 letters some want on their system.



Again, I'm going to be in line on November 17th, with $350+ in hand to get my Nintendo Wii, and a extra Wii-mote and Nunchuck. If I really hated Nintendo or the Wii, why the hell would I spend $350 of my hard earned cash on it?
Who was it that said their plans was to pick one up, never open it, and then sell it on E-bay? Profit makes one hell of a motivation for buying stuff you normaly wouldnt. People do it all the time. Baseball cards, comics, beanie babies, tickle me elmo dolls and so much more are good examples. Realy, this is funny.

useless adition:
Oh, and some recent polls are even claiming the gender break down of those buying games puts women at over 40 percent.

[Garry Silljo]

Ever heard of the word "value"? Apparently not. Something could cost $100, and have more value than a similar item priced at $10. The people that are saying the Wii is super cheap compared to the 360 and PS3 are totally missing the point. The Wii can't be compared to those systems. The Wii is a souped up version of the 5 year old GameCube. You can't compare that directly with true next-gen technology. Comparing the Wii against those other 2 consoles is pretty pointless.


You keep saying the systems can't be compared, and we've all heard your souped up Gamecube line about 100 times now. Here's a fact. I can compare anything I want. I can compare the PS3 to a lint roller if I want. It will not be a good comparison, but it CAN be done, so don't tell people "The Wii can't be compared to those systems." Second, you seem to constantly confuse disagreement with a lack of understanding. People disagree with theories or statements of yours and you post the exact same reply 100 times in a row, assuming they don't understand what you are saying. They understand, they just don't agree. Bring something new.

Lastly, to Fuyukaze. Trust me. You can actually yell at a brickwall until it crumbles from the force of your words before Anthony sees a point that is not his own. You should learn from my mistake and just walk away now. I'm going to try that again right now actually....

[Anthony1]

[quote="Fuyukaze"] By your own admision you only rent unless the title's been heavly discounted. That kinda makes you a parasite by definition. Also I'm surprised you'd list the SNES as a favorite. I consider it one of the best systems if not the best Nintendo has ever released. Perhaps you could let me know the online rental place you use that still has SNES games for rental?
[quote]



Ok, so I'm a parasite because I rent games? O_O I see. You do understand that if people didn't rent games, then GameFly and Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, etc, etc, wouldn't be "buying" games to then rent to people. The more people that rent, means more games that have to be bought to be able to be rented. Video game companies loose more from the "resale" market than the "rental" market.


As for renting SNES games, well, my rental only policy is more oriented towards post Dreamcast consoles. There are some high dollar Neo-Geo AES games I would love to rent though, but I don't know any place that offers them up for rent. :D

[Anthony1]

You should learn from my mistake and just walk away now



How can he learn anything from you, when you keep showing up in this thread trying to discredit my takes with nonsense LOL

[studvicious]

Ever heard of the word "value"? Apparently not. Something could cost $100, and have more value than a similar item priced at $10. The people that are saying the Wii is super cheap compared to the 360 and PS3 are totally missing the point. The Wii can't be compared to those systems. The Wii is a souped up version of the 5 year old GameCube. You can't compare that directly with true next-gen technology. Comparing the Wii against those other 2 consoles is pretty pointless.


Actually, if we really want to get down to it The Wii is a little bit more powerful than the Xbox. The Xbox retails at $179.00 - that's about a $70 difference to the Wii. So you have to ask yourself.. "is a new gameplay experience worth $70???" Of course it is!!! That my friend, is value.

[Anthony1]

we've all heard your souped up Gamecube line about 100 times now



Actually I can't take credit for the phase "souped up GameCube". It comes from the October 2006 issue of EGM. On page 26 and 27 of that issue, EGM does a little interview with Randy Pitchford, president of Gearbox Software. Here are some excerprts from that interview:



EGM: We know you're working on Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway for the PS3, so tell us: How much more powerfull is the PS3 than the Wii?

Randy Pitchford: From a pure computational power point of view, it's not really fair to compare the PS3 to the Wii. The PS3 is built for speed. The Wii is built for it's unique controller interface. You're going to be able to stretch the limits of next-generation rendering capability on the PS3 over it's life cycle. From a graphics point of view, the Wii will just edge out the best of what was possible in the last generation. From a computing power point of view, the PS3 is a generational leap. The Wii is not.

EGM: Let's be honest...is the Wii merely a souped-up GameCube, at least in terms of graphics?

Randy Pitchford: If we're being honest, then yes....I wouldn't use the word "merely", however. I think the Wii is awesome! It is just that what makes it awesome isn't about computing power - it's about interface, accessibility, usability, and how we think about playing games and interacting with them.




Now, those are just two little excerpts from a longer interview, but EGM was the one that actually coined the phase, "souped up GameCube". Although I do admit that I've heard that phrased used on many a different podcast, as well. Randy Pitchford basically admitted that if you want to get right down to it, the Wii really is nothing more than a somewhat enhanced GameCube. But he also said that the Wii is awesome, and that it's capable of some amazing things. I also agree with this, and that is why I'm buying one on day 1. I know that the Wii is going to have by far the worse graphics of the three systems, and it will probably have the least special effects and razzle dazzle, but I also know that the Wii-Mote and nunchuck are going to provide some radically different gameplay experiences, and I'm really looking forward to that. I'll get plenty of incredible graphics and special effects from the 360 and PS3, but the Wii is going to give me something entirely different and new, and exciting and fresh!



Still, I'm not going to try to convince myself that the Wii is anything other than a souped up GameCube, cause it's not, but that doesn't mean it isn't going to provide it's own unique and special flavor of gaming joy, because it will. I've come to accept that the Wii's graphics are going to be about as good as the best Xbox 1 games, and not much better than that, but that's fine. If the Wii was my only new console, that might be an issue for me, but I've got a 360 and I hope to get a PS3 as well, so I'll be fully covered in the graphics department. I don't need all 3 systems to be graphical powerhouses. :)

[Fuyukaze]

Ok, so I'm a parasite because I rent games? O_O I see. You do understand that if people didn't rent games, then GameFly and Blockbuster and Hollywood Video, etc, etc, wouldn't be "buying" games to then rent to people. The more people that rent, means more games that have to be bought to be able to be rented. Video game companies loose more from the "resale" market than the "rental" market.


As for renting SNES games, well, my rental only policy is more oriented towards post Dreamcast consoles. There are some high dollar Neo-Geo AES games I would love to rent though, but I don't know any place that offers them up for rent. :D

A store buys 5 copies of a single title, rents it out to 50 people in its rental life span. Of those 50 people who rent it, 20% of them buy the game. 50 people rented the game, 10 people bought the game, and only 15 copies of the game generated any profit for the original company.

Someone buys a game, trades it in at a game store. Someone comes in behind, buys it. One copy was bought, one was traded in, and one was sold used. Only one copy generated profit for the original company. It's true that the second person to buy it at a used price could in turn sell it or trade it in further generating more used buyers but in the intent of avoiding a pointless argument lets keep it simple.

Using these two basic examples, we can see that in the rental more people are able to play the game and pass on picking it up where as in the second, it's done on a unit by unit basis. Yes, two people played the same game in the used. The catch is, of the two only one did not pay full price. You fail to impress on me any sense of a valid argument. Please try again.

[jajaja]

Fuyukaze: Do i understand you correctly that you say that people who dont buy games within the first month for full price sux? Shouldnt they be allowed to try out the game first instead of buying it or wait for pricedrop? Is that what you're saying or am i missunderstanding something?

[Anthony1]

The only reason that $59.99 games even exist, is because publishers know they can get away with it. There have been many people in the video game industry that have been saying for a very long time, that if video games were priced like CD's and DVD's and other mainstream media, then consumers would buy many more games and the industry would be better off as a whole.


My rental only strategy has 100 percent to do with simple logic. My logic states that when I can rent a game for $3.50 per month, (that includes Xbox 360, PS3 and Nintendo Wii as well), it isn't logical to even "consider" buying a game that is priced above $29.99. Why is it not logical? Because $29.99 translates to $32.31 (with tax where I live) and if you divide $32.31 by $3.50, you can see that I could rent that game for a little over 9 months for the same amount of money. The fact is, I rarely play a game continuously for 9 months. In fact, if I'm really honest with myself, I typically play them for about 3 or 4 months tops. 3 or 4 months X $3.50 = $10.50 or $14. It's more logical for me to spend $10.50 or $14 on a game than $32.31, and that's assuming the game only cost $29.99, which is much more the exception than the rule. So logic for me dictates this:



above $29.99 = Don't even consider purchasing, unless it is a rare breed game that I will play virtually every day for a year. (last game that met that criteria was NFL2K3 for Xbox 1)

$29.99 = I can actually consider buying this game, but only if I know I'm going to be dedicated to it for at least 5 or 6 months straight, and then as soon as I'm done with it, I must immediately craigslist it.

$24.99 = I can actually consider buying this game, but only if I know I'm going to be dedicated to it for at least 4 or 5 months straight, and then as soon as I'm done with it, I must immediately craigslist it.

$19.99 = This is actually the price were I really truly start to consider a purchase over a long term rental. But there is a scenario in which even a $19.99 doesn't make sense to purchase. That scenario is the scenario in which I play a game heavily for about 2 1/2 months, to never revisit it again. In that scenario, it would cost me $8.75 to rent it for 2 1/2 months, and that would actually be the smarter play. But if I know I'm going to spend at least 4 months playing it, then it's smarter to buy it, and immediately craigslist it as soon as I'm done with it.

$14.99 = Ok, now we are starting to get into the compelling price point where it is more likely intelligent to buy this game then rent it. Even though it only costs me $3.50 per month to rent, $14.99 is a good price, because even when I'm done with it, I could still likely sell it for $5, which means I'm only spending 10 snaps on it. If I play it for less than 3 months, then it might not be the best decision, but at $14.99 I can live dangerously LOL


$9.99 = At $9.99 I enter the land of impulse buy. If this is a game I actually have any real interest in, it's probably better to buy then rent. Sure, I can rent it for only $3.50 for a month, so technically I better play this game more than 2 months, but I'm sure I could sell it to somebody else for like $3.50 when I'm done with it.


Less than $9.99 = Almost always smarter to buy then rent when it's less than $9.99. Only time this isn't the case is if it's a game I just want to try for like 2 weeks. Lego Star Wars II: The Original Triliogy for Xbox 360 is a perfect example. I've had this game almost two weeks and I've blown through most of it, and I'm about ready to send it back. It was a really fun game, but I'm pretty much done with it. Thanks for the memories. That one cost me $1.75 for two weeks worth of play. Paying $1.75 is better than $9.99 or whatever, and it will be well over a year before you can get the 360 version for $9.99 or less anyways.



Also, understand that there are tons of games that I would never even consider buying. These are short term rental games. I check them out for a day or two and then return them to the store. Games like Godfather for the Xbox 360. I'm not really that interested in it, but I just want to check it out real quick and get a first hand impression of it. Play it for a few days, and then return it. So it doesn't really make sense to buy it at any price, unless I'm trying to buy it used for cheap and sell it for more on craigslist or something.


That's pretty much by policy. If this policy is killing the games industry then so be it. The industry should DIE :evil: Honeslty though, if the industry wised up and adopted the price points of CD's and DVD's, I would have never even considered a rental only policy.

[FantasiaWHT]

Anthony why do you obsess over assigning a lesser value to the Wii than the 360 and PS3 purely by comparing processing power and fail to fail to notice that you are assigning it a greater value by your pledge to buy it for other reasons?

You base your argument on the ratio of price to value, then define value based on processing power, but then use terms other than processing power to define why YOU want to buy one on day one (giving it a personal value to your own thinking)

You are arguing against yourself there.

[Garry Silljo]

How can he learn anything from you, when you keep showing up in this thread trying to discredit my takes with nonsense LOL

Hey, thanks for the help in proving the point of my post! Any opinion that is not Anthony's or agree with Anthony's is nonsense... so sayeth Anthony. This is type of reply is exactly what I wanted Fuyukaze to see to illustrate my warning. Thanks for being predictable, I knew I could count on you.

Anyway, that's all I had to add, I'm curious to see how you relpy to FantasiaWHT. That post pretty much nailed it. Of course maybe I just got it cause I speak so much CRAZY!?!?!

[Garry Silljo]

Ever heard of the word "value"? Apparently not. Something could cost $100, and have more value than a similar item priced at $10. The people that are saying the Wii is super cheap compared to the 360 and PS3 are totally missing the point. The Wii can't be compared to those systems. The Wii is a souped up version of the 5 year old GameCube. You can't compare that directly with true next-gen technology. Comparing the Wii against those other 2 consoles is pretty pointless.


Actually, if we really want to get down to it The Wii is a little bit more powerful than the Xbox. The Xbox retails at $179.00 - that's about a $70 difference to the Wii. So you have to ask yourself.. "is a new gameplay experience worth $70???" Of course it is!!! That my friend, is value.

I wonder why Anthony ignored this very valid point? Oh, must be more nonsense, since it doesn't support any of his value rantings.

To Studvicious, don't forget the 179.00 Xbox has no Packin, making the Value of the Wii even closer to that figure.

[SkiDragon]

If we are including a pack in game in the price of the console, it shouldn't be called a pack in game. It should be called a forced bundle. I'm sure the PS3 will offer plenty of pack in games at some stores when it comes out.

[Garry Silljo]

If we are including a pack in game in the price of the console, it shouldn't be called a pack in game. It should be called a forced bundle. I'm sure the PS3 will offer plenty of pack in games at some stores when it comes out.

I call it a pack in game because the bundles for PS3 will probably be the idea or policy of the retailer and not Sony itself. However, call it which ever you want, the value of the game should count for something when comparing it to systems that have no included game. I don't care how it's said as long as the point is understood.

[Kid Ice]

My logic states that when I can rent a game for $3.50 per month, (that includes Xbox 360, PS3 and Nintendo Wii as well), it isn't logical to even "consider" buying a game that is priced above $29.99.

Wondering...where do you rent games for $3.50 a month?

[slip81]

My logic states that when I can rent a game for $3.50 per month, (that includes Xbox 360, PS3 and Nintendo Wii as well), it isn't logical to even "consider" buying a game that is priced above $29.99.

Wondering...where do you rent games for $3.50 a month?

With his gamesnflix account, each slot works out to $3.50 a month.

[Kid Ice]

My logic states that when I can rent a game for $3.50 per month, (that includes Xbox 360, PS3 and Nintendo Wii as well), it isn't logical to even "consider" buying a game that is priced above $29.99.

Wondering...where do you rent games for $3.50 a month?

With his gamesnflix account, each slot works out to $3.50 a month.

I'm looking at that site...I see $16.99 for three items (about 6 bucks a month) and $249 a year for 6 out at a time. That's about $21 a month which would indeed be abot 3.50 a month. Heh. I guess that's pretty good if you're willing to invest that much in gamesnflix's service. In other words yes, you're getting a good value, but it must hurt to hand over 250 smackers to "gamesnflix".

[Anthony1]

Ever heard of the word "value"? Apparently not. Something could cost $100, and have more value than a similar item priced at $10. The people that are saying the Wii is super cheap compared to the 360 and PS3 are totally missing the point. The Wii can't be compared to those systems. The Wii is a souped up version of the 5 year old GameCube. You can't compare that directly with true next-gen technology. Comparing the Wii against those other 2 consoles is pretty pointless.


Actually, if we really want to get down to it The Wii is a little bit more powerful than the Xbox. The Xbox retails at $179.00 - that's about a $70 difference to the Wii. So you have to ask yourself.. "is a new gameplay experience worth $70???" Of course it is!!! That my friend, is value.

I wonder why Anthony ignored this very valid point? Oh, must be more nonsense, since it doesn't support any of his value rantings.

To Studvicious, don't forget the 179.00 Xbox has no Packin, making the Value of the Wii even closer to that figure.



Ok, if you want me to break this one down I will. Only reason I didn't reply to this take is because I can't reply to every single thing that's thrown out there, but if you are interested in my take on it, then I'll go ahead and oblige you.


1. Since when is the Xbox $179.99? Last time I was at a Wal-Mart or whatever it was $149.99. Unless I was high or something and was seeing things. I thought that the PS2 was $129.99 and the Xbox was $149.99. Now maybe the standard $149.99 Xbox package isn't available anymore, but I'm pretty sure it was. I see them selling Xbox 1's at Fry's with a couple of games for $179.99, but I don't see a price for the orignal $149.99 Xbox that doesn't come with a game.

2. The Wii is based on GameCube technology, not Xbox technology. Any comparison to Xbox 1 in terms of price is not a valid comparison, primarly because Microsoft made the blunder of using parts that can't be consolidated for reduced manufacturing costs. The Xbox was a strange animal in terms of the fact that it uses primarily off the shelf PC parts. The Nintendo Wii doesn't have a hard drive bulit inside it to my knowledge. A better comparison would be the GameCube itself. Since the Wii is basically a turbo-charged GameCube, we should look at the GameCube itself. The Cube sells for $79.99 and Nintendo is actually even making a profit selling it at $79.99.


In one of my previous posts, I already estimated that Nintendo probably can make a GameCube for $60 or less, much likely less, and the extra hardware that was added to the Cube to make the Wii "might" have come close to doubling it's cost, which would then make the Wii about $120 to manufacture. It's possible they are cranking those puppies out for even less than that. As for the cost of the controller, nunchuck, Wii sports and the rest of the packaging, a big overestimation on those items would be $60. That brings the total to $180. I honesly believe that it costs about $180 for Nintendo to bring the Wii launch package to retail shelves. The extra $70 is profit that Nintendo and the retailer sees, with Nintendo seeing about 80 percent of that or even more.


Again, all of this is splitting hairs, and it's really not that huge an issue in the first place. It's not like I'm devastated because the Wii is $249.99. It's not that big a deal. Sure, I would love to pay less for it, but who the hell wouldn't? :eek 2:

[zerohero]

I read somewhere that the american price was not officialy released, and that 249 was the price for Japan.

[Lothars]

I read somewhere that the american price was not officialy released, and that 249 was the price for Japan.

I would love to see that being the case but chances are it's 249

I would prefer to see it less mainly because I think 249 is to high for the Wii at the moment

but I will still get one just not right at launch

[Fuyukaze]

Fuyukaze: Do i understand you correctly that you say that people who dont buy games within the first month for full price sux? Shouldnt they be allowed to try out the game first instead of buying it or wait for pricedrop? Is that what you're saying or am i missunderstanding something?

Please re-read what I've said. I never claimed those who rent suck, nor did I say those who rent new systems suck either. People will do as they see fit but if their only means of playing a game reguardless of how good it is consists of rental alone then they are a parasite. Price drop? I never even mentioned price drops at all.

[j_factor]

I read somewhere that the american price was not officialy released, and that 249 was the price for Japan.

You read incorrectly, at least on that latter bit. The Japanese price is 25000 yen. It would not be 249, because in Japan they don't use US dollars, and 249 yen is pocket change. :P 25000 yen converted to US dollars is approximately $215, and is the same price tag that the Gamecube had in Japan at launch.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I've said before that I'm not seeing a huge leap in the graphics department from PS2 to the new consoles. As I figure it that makes the Wii, 360 and PS3 VERY comparable. Seeing gameplay video from the recent TGS of Lair for the PS3 I'm not convinced that this game could not be done on the Wii. Of course there may be differences between the versions if Lair were put on Wii but, I feel it would be alot like the PS2/Xbox multi-platform releases we've had already.

Honestly, I don't know why I still respond to this... I've stated before that your (Anthony) takes seem to be biased because of what you claim is impossible to compare, only one system has been released so far. Hey, Anthony. Lemme borrow your crystal ball for a while. I'd like to know what the numbers for MegaMillions are going to be for the next 5 years or so... :roll:

[Icarus Moonsight]

The first two sentances in the above post are half sarcasm and half Anthony logic. Because it is my view of last gen to this one it is now officially all of your opinions unless you happen to be crazy or like to spout off nonsence. LOL

Awaiting the return of the Edit button...

[Icarus Moonsight]

The first two sentances in the above post are half sarcasm and half Anthony logic. Because it is my view of last gen to this one it is now officially all of your opinions. Unless you happen to be crazy or like to spout off nonsence. LOL

Awaiting the return of the Edit button...

[jajaja]

Fuyukaze: Do i understand you correctly that you say that people who dont buy games within the first month for full price sux? Shouldnt they be allowed to try out the game first instead of buying it or wait for pricedrop? Is that what you're saying or am i missunderstanding something?

Please re-read what I've said. I never claimed those who rent suck, nor did I say those who rent new systems suck either. People will do as they see fit but if their only means of playing a game reguardless of how good it is consists of rental alone then they are a parasite. Price drop? I never even mentioned price drops at all.

Ok, i understand all now, except the parasite part. People rent to save money, what is the problem? I dont see it.

[petewhitley]

This is getting old. The only comparison between the three is the one thing that matters most to the casual gamer. Price.

Where do get the assumption that price is the most important feature to the "casual" gamer? For one, the whole idea of "casual" gamers is notoriously difficult to define, and two, video games a relative luxury item and for a great many of those in the market for video games price is relatively unimportant. This may be hard to believe for a lot of the high-school/college aged readers, but it's true. The difference between $249/$399/$599 isn't going to break the bank for a lot of us in the market for a next-gen system.

[Garry Silljo]

Since the Wii is basically a turbo-charged GameCube,

Oh, now I get it! You should have said this earlier?!?!? x_x

Which of these systems can play vinyl? I ask because I think your record player may be broken.

[Anthony1]

Guess what, this is my last post to this thread. Next time I post anything regarding the Nintendo Wii,will be either when I get my hands on a in store Kiosk of the Wii, or when I actually get my own Nintendo Wii on November 19th. :D



See you then :-P

[Bronty-2]

This is getting old. The only comparison between the three is the one thing that matters most to the casual gamer. Price.

Where do get the assumption that price is the most important feature to the "casual" gamer? For one, the whole idea of "casual" gamers is notoriously difficult to define, and two, video games a relative luxury item and for a great many of those in the market for video games price is relatively unimportant. This may be hard to believe for a lot of the high-school/college aged readers, but it's true. The difference between $249/$399/$599 isn't going to break the bank for a lot of us in the market for a next-gen system.

Maybe if you're 26 and living in mom's basement and paying no rent...

One of the best times money-wise in your life is between 25 (starting to get decent income) and 30 (just before you have to save for the wedding/kids/house). I'm not a college aged kid or anyone fitting the description you threw out. I make a pretty good living yet for me the difference between 249/599 is significant enough for me to take notice. I think you're fooling yourself if you think videogames are a luxury item - that's a load of crap frankly. They are ENTERTAINMENT. Like a movie or a CD or whatever. If you think people are going to buy the same # of CD players at $200 a crack as they will at $50 a crack, you're dreaming.

[petewhitley]

Maybe if you're 26 and living in mom's basement and paying no rent...

One of the best times money-wise in your life is between 25 (starting to get decent income) and 30 (just before you have to save for the wedding/kids/house). I'm not a college aged kid or anyone fitting the description you threw out. I make a pretty good living yet for me the difference between 249/599 is significant enough for me to take notice. I think you're fooling yourself if you think videogames are a luxury item - that's a load of crap frankly. They are ENTERTAINMENT. Like a movie or a CD or whatever. If you think people are going to buy the same # of CD players at $200 a crack as they will at $50 a crack, you're dreaming.

The fact remains, the Xbox 360 and the PS3 are luxury items (high-end entertainment IS a luxury, and if you don't agree, you need to get out of your suburb once and a while). And these days, a significant number of consumers are used to and prepared to spend $500+ for the luxury of cutting-edge home entertainment. Who do you think is buying up all of those $2,000 HD TVs at your local WalMart? A lot of the same guys who are in the market for next-gen system (which, not coincidentally, take full advantage of such displays). These consumers aren't put off by a $600 price tag. A "pretty good living" to one person may be a month's rent to another.

[Mayhem]

Hell, I probably earn a very good salary and yet I agree, the prices are in the range of being luxury and having to save for them for many people, even though I won't have that much problem buying them if I wanted to.

My decision is really, are they worth it?! :P

[Bronty-2]

Hell, I probably earn a very good salary and yet I agree, the prices are in the range of being luxury and having to save for them for many people, even though I won't have that much problem buying them if I wanted to.

My decision is really, are they worth it?! :P

exactly, thank you..

[Bronty-2]

Maybe if you're 26 and living in mom's basement and paying no rent...

One of the best times money-wise in your life is between 25 (starting to get decent income) and 30 (just before you have to save for the wedding/kids/house). I'm not a college aged kid or anyone fitting the description you threw out. I make a pretty good living yet for me the difference between 249/599 is significant enough for me to take notice. I think you're fooling yourself if you think videogames are a luxury item - that's a load of crap frankly. They are ENTERTAINMENT. Like a movie or a CD or whatever. If you think people are going to buy the same # of CD players at $200 a crack as they will at $50 a crack, you're dreaming.

The fact remains, the Xbox 360 and the PS3 are luxury items (high-end entertainment IS a luxury, and if you don't agree, you need to get out of your suburb once and a while). And these days, a significant number of consumers are used to and prepared to spend $500+ for the luxury of cutting-edge home entertainment. Who do you think is buying up all of those $2,000 HD TVs at your local WalMart? A lot of the same guys who are in the market for next-gen system (which, not coincidentally, take full advantage of such displays). These consumers aren't put off by a $600 price tag. A "pretty good living" to one person may be a month's rent to another.

There may be the odd person to whom a 'good living' is rent (although if your rent is as much as that, why the hell are you renting?) but that's not the point here.

Of course there's going to be a few early adopters who will pay whatever price. That's not the point. You're never going to be able to carry a console on those few. The point is whether its too high for most people, and it is.

[jajaja]

Using the word luxury is correct, but personaly i dont look at people who own a new console as luxury. Owning a console today is so common.

[Princess-Isabela]

well, owning a $700 Neo Geo AES System back in the day and shelling out $200-$400 per game was a luxury.
right now consoles became more affordable than ever, yet of course we'll find people who are still complaining.
we are spending money on a system that will last at least couple of years, not few months(as in case with pc's).

[Princess-Isabela]

well, owning a $700 Neo Geo AES System back in the day and shelling out $200-$400 per game was a luxury.
right now consoles became more affordable than ever, yet of course we'll find people who are still complaining.
we are spending money on a system that will last at least couple of years, not few months(as in case with pc's).

[petewhitley]

Of course there's going to be a few early adopters who will pay whatever price. That's not the point. You're never going to be able to carry a console on those few. The point is whether its too high for most people, and it is.

Actually the point is whether it's too high for the system to gain a market foothold until the first price drop. And I'm quite certan it's not. Relative to other home entertainment items that regularly sell to middle-America, the PS3 is on the low-end in terms of price. How that makes it "too high for most people" is beyond me. The problem is you're looking at video games from a "toy" price perspective, when they've clearly been in the "home entertainment" category (both in price and demographics) for years.

[business]

I don't know whether this has been announced or not, but I will go ahead and ask. Is there any chance of component cables coming in the box? Or are we going to have to buy those seperately on day one?