PDA

View Full Version : Xbox 360 gets 1080p



jajaja
09-20-2006, 10:08 AM
Xbox 360 does currently support upto 1080i, but will get a softwareupdate so it can support 1080p. This means that you get the best HD experience :)

jajaja
09-20-2006, 10:12 AM
(no edit button)

You probly need a HDMI cable to get the best, but still, it supports 1080p which is the highest HD resolution.

s1lence
09-20-2006, 10:24 AM
Eta on this update?

Dobie
09-20-2006, 10:26 AM
It'll be part of the November dashboard update.

business
09-20-2006, 10:31 AM
Well, there goes one of the awesome-fantastic-jesus-like features the PS3 was flaunting.

s1lence
09-20-2006, 10:49 AM
November is turning out be to a crazy gaming month this year, probably one of the biggest in recent gaming history.

diskoboy
09-20-2006, 11:01 AM
A little off topic - are they trying to phase out 1080i as a HD standard? They don't advertise 1080i TV's. Just 720p and 1080p.

Seriously - Next friday or sunday, read all your sales flyers and see how many 1080i TV's you find listed.

Half Japanese
09-20-2006, 11:14 AM
A little off topic - are they trying to phase out 1080i as a HD standard? They don't advertise 1080i TV's. Just 720p and 1080p.

Seriously - Next friday or sunday, read all your sales flyers and see how many 1080i TV's you find listed.

All 720p sets can do 1080i too, it's just that they don't really advertise it as much because the main thing most people would use 1080i for is upconversion with an upconverting DVD player (via DVI or HDMI). 1080p is making a big splash because it's so new and it's the standard for the new HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats. That said, 1080p sets run about $1500 for the cheapest model on sale (Westinghouse), so it's out of my price range.

Quick question: Would there be any benefit to getting an HDMI cable for the 360 versus the component if you're running your Xbox at 720p currently an your television supports a max of 1080i? I would assume that under those conditions that the difference is negligible to most people, but I'd be interested if there's enough improvement.

Gamereviewgod
09-20-2006, 02:30 PM
Quick question: Would there be any benefit to getting an HDMI cable for the 360 versus the component if you're running your Xbox at 720p currently an your television supports a max of 1080i? I would assume that under those conditions that the difference is negligible to most people, but I'd be interested if there's enough improvement.

If they had one available, but they don't. I personally see little difference between component and HDMI.

roushimsx
09-20-2006, 03:11 PM
This sounds about as useful as 720p on the Xbox. It'll be nice if a lot of games will actually be able to make use of it without a major framerate hit and it'll be nice to see if more than two dozen games in the entire library support it.

Joker T
09-20-2006, 03:42 PM
Good news, doesn't really apply to me but still good news for the people who have 1080p TVs

Half Japanese
09-20-2006, 03:47 PM
This sounds about as useful as 720p on the Xbox. It'll be nice if a lot of games will actually be able to make use of it without a major framerate hit and it'll be nice to see if more than two dozen games in the entire library support it.

But don't forget that there is the upcoming HD-DVD add-on for the 360, which would definitely benefit from the 1080p capabilities. It's nice to have it, as it doesn't really hurt anything and keeps the videophiles happy. Games-wise, I don't really see it being widely supported right now, because as you said, the original Xbox had only a handful of games that made use of then-advanced resolutions.

Joker T
09-20-2006, 04:03 PM
This sounds about as useful as 720p on the Xbox. It'll be nice if a lot of games will actually be able to make use of it without a major framerate hit and it'll be nice to see if more than two dozen games in the entire library support it.

But don't forget that there is the upcoming HD-DVD add-on for the 360, which would definitely benefit from the 1080p capabilities. It's nice to have it, as it doesn't really hurt anything and keeps the videophiles happy. Games-wise, I don't really see it being widely supported right now, because as you said, the original Xbox had only a handful of games that made use of then-advanced resolutions.

Yeah and as said above maybe Sony will shut up about having it.

Mr Mort
09-20-2006, 04:18 PM
Quick question: Would there be any benefit to getting an HDMI cable for the 360 versus the component if you're running your Xbox at 720p currently an your television supports a max of 1080i? I would assume that under those conditions that the difference is negligible to most people, but I'd be interested if there's enough improvement.

If your TV only goes up to 1080i/720p, the difference between component and HDMI is so miniscule, most people couldn't tell the difference. Not worth it for a cable that usually costs more than $80.00.

Besides, 1080i/720p are considered to be true HD resolutions. It's not like they're crappy resolutions, far from it. In fact the difference between those and 1080p are not as dramatic as say the difference between 480i and 480p.

IMHO, the excessive importance that's being put over 1080p is just more hype than anything.

Anthony1
09-20-2006, 04:20 PM
Unfortunately, the current GPU in the 360 doesn't support "true" 1080p output, so I would take this announcement with a very large grain of salt. Make sure to have a glass of water handy, so you don't choke on that large grain of salt.


Most likely what is going to happen, is the software people have figured out some type of software algorithim to upconvert the 1080i output to 1080p. But the problem with this is the whole "garbage in, garbage out" theory. The "garbage in, garbage out" theory suggests that no matter what you do to the original video signal, or audio signal or whatever, there is nothing that can be done, to magically improve that signal beyond the visual or audio information that was originally contained in that signal. In other words, 720p images contain about 1 million pixels of visual information. There isn't any magical way that you can convert those 1 million pixels of visual information into 2 million pixels of information. Sure, technically it can be done, but unless a greater amount of visual information is available from the beginning, it doesn't matter. That is the problem wtih upconverting. Upconverting can sometimes make images "appear" to look better, but upconverting 720p or 1080i to 1080p, isn't going to look like a "true" 1080p signal.


So unless Microsoft is going to redesign the 360 motherboard, and unless ATI is going to put a different GPU inside the 360, all this talk of 1080p is pretty much meaningless. Take Gran Turismo 4 for example. Sony talked about how Gran Turismo 4 is the first 1080i game for the PS2. Now that statement is technically true, but what they don't tell you, is that they get the 1080i signal through software interpollation. It's basically a trick. No addiitional visual information is being added to the mix. It's just software algorithims. So if you really thought you were playing a 1080i PS2 game when you played Gran Turismo 4, then you might actually think you are playing something in 1080p on the 360 once this update goes through, but it's pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

roushimsx
09-20-2006, 05:28 PM
Not worth it for a cable that usually costs more than $80.00.

Because I love this place so much, I'm going to tell y'all a little secret...

MonoPrice.com (http://monoprice.com/home/index.asp)

Reputable and high quality cables for dirt cheap :)

DreamTR
09-20-2006, 06:21 PM
HDMI/Component = the same. Just cuts down on the number of cables.

Your system has to upscan based on the software you are playing on your systems. I think PS2s only go to 480p, and most XBox Games are 480 or 720, with VERY few at 1080.

IN fact, this causes lag if you are using an HD cable, so be careful unless you have the proper resolution set.

Mr. Smashy
09-20-2006, 07:03 PM
Unfortunately, the current GPU in the 360 doesn't support "true" 1080p output, so I would take this announcement with a very large grain of salt.

Saying that the GPU can't support "true" 1080p sounds like bullshit to me. Even a crappy old Radeon 9200 SE card can do 1920x1080 at 120 Hz.

Cards built off of the Rage 128 chip could output higher resolutions than that back in 1998-99.

Mr. Smashy
09-20-2006, 07:34 PM
Take Gran Turismo 4 for example. Sony talked about how Gran Turismo 4 is the first 1080i game for the PS2. Now that statement is technically true, but what they don't tell you, is that they get the 1080i signal through software interpollation. It's basically a trick. No addiitional visual information is being added to the mix. It's just software algorithims. So if you really thought you were playing a 1080i PS2 game when you played Gran Turismo 4, then you might actually think you are playing something in 1080p on the 360 once this update goes through, but it's pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Although the inclusion of 1080i in GT4 may not have a huge graphical benefit, it certainly helps in avoiding lag due to upscaling on some HDTV sets. This same benefit would hold true for the Xbox 360 being able to handle 1080p. I wouldn't call that meaningless for somebody running a TV with a native resolution of 1080p.

Trebuken
09-20-2006, 08:08 PM
I'm playing 360 games in 1080P now. I think it's mostly relevant for larger screen sizes. The more the image is stretched, the more pixels you need.

Now HDMI wil be needed for HD-DVD at some point because of copy protection. I believe that the copy protection is not being implemented yet so component can get the job done. If they begin to create games in Dolby Digital Plus or TrueHD Surround Souns you will need HDMI because the optical cable for the 360 won't handle it, nore will the RCA red and white. TrueHD sound in a game with a good receiver would be awesome...

It is peculiar that a software update can create 1080p support, but as long as it works...hope Toshibe does this for their HD-DVD players too...

Later,
Trebuken

Anthony1
09-20-2006, 09:45 PM
I believe that the copy protection is not being implemented yet so component can get the job done.



Technically, component can indeed pass a 1080p 30 frame per second image. However it cannot pass a 1080p 60 frame per second image.


Also, to my knowledge, there currently isn't a single HDTV on the market that can accept a 1080p component input. There are tons and tons of HDTV's on the market that can accept a 480p, 720p and 1080i signal via component, but none that can accept a 1080p signal via component. At least not yet.


Now, does this mean that 1080p support on the Xbox 360 is meaningless? Not completely. Microsoft has stated that 1080p will be available via both component and VGA. There are actual displays out there that can accept a 1920 x 1080p signal over VGA. Not very many, but a few do. Again, the Xbox GPU supposedly is not capable of a true 1080p image, according to an interview with the ATI people responsible for the 360 GPU prior to the launch of the XBOX, but if one actually has the HD-DVD add on, and they have the VGA adapter and they have one of the few HDTV's on the planet that can actually accept a 1080p signal over the sets VGA input, then they can actually see HD-DVD movies in "true" 1080p.

But as far as games are concerned, the Xbox 360 GPU, according to ATI's own engineers, is not capable of a "true" hardware based 1080p signal. Certainly, those same engineers could be singing a different tune, but if you go back and do some searches for artciles before the 360 actually launched on whether the 360 can do 1080p or not, you will stumble upon the interview that I'm speaking of. Microsoft admitted back then that the 360 could not do 1080p, but they basically claimed that 1080p was overblown hype anyways, and that it didn't matter. Now that they will have 1080p support (albeit in software not hardware), the same people that admitted no "true" 1080p could easily twist their words around now, to make it seem like the 360 is capable of "true" 1080p, but it would be entirely misleading. Even if the 360 was actually capable of "true" 1080p, the only games that could feature it, would be simple Xbox Live Arcade type games like Cloning Clyde or Texas Hold'Em.

meancode
09-20-2006, 11:10 PM
If anything, it was a nice kick in the teeth to Sony. No more 1080p exclusive gaming for you.

Will 1080p gaming really matter? Doubtful, but it doesn't matter. 1080p is "the best" and that is what matters.

Anthony1
09-21-2006, 12:18 AM
Yeah, in all likelyhood, 1080p is going to mean exactly diddly squat during this upcoming generation. The PS3 actually has native 1080p support in hardware, but it comes at a price. The price is framerate, physics, A.I., polygon pushing, textures, etc, etc, etc, it's all a trade off.


The only games that will really work in 1080p with no sacrifices are simple games like 2D games and puzzle games and stuff like that. Simple games that don't have alot of things going on. For example, if the PS3 had Cloning Clyde on it, then it would work in true 1080p. But when you are talking about big time games like Halo 3 or Metal Gear Solid 4, those games aren't going to be 1080p and if they are, they are going to suffer for it. I just don't see developers having their games suffer, just so a precious few people can enjoy a higher resolution, when the vast majority of players are never going to see that.


I'm a hardcore graphics whore, I would like nothing more than to see tons of 1080p games, but the problem is I don't think these systems are truly powerfull enough for that. Not with all the physics and A.I. and all that other shit going on at the same time. I would rather not sacrifice the physics and the A.I. and the 5.1 sound in game. The tradeoff isn't worth it. Once we get to the Xbox 3 and Playstation 4, then that is when we can have our cake and eat it too. Those systems will be powerfull enough to have true 1080p, with everything else going on at the same time as well. But that is like 6 years away, so no need to even think about that for a long time.

Trebuken
09-21-2006, 08:57 AM
In a similar thread on the avsforum's some have claimed that a few sets can do 1080p24 or 30 over component, but not enough to mention.

What's more relevant, if I read correctly, is that the 360 will be able to upscale DVD and Games to 1080p.

My understanding of 1080p content (HD-DVD, Blur-Ray) is that it is marketed as 1080p but factually 1080i on the disc. It's the hardware deinterlacing that makes it 1080p. I believe that all sets that do 1080p do the deinterlacing. We won't know which piece of hardware deinterlaces better until they are all sitting in front of us.

I'm a bit unclear on the encoding of High Def material in 1080p vs. 1080i. Any ideas how that impacts things Anthony1?

Later,
Trebuken

Garry Silljo
09-21-2006, 05:13 PM
Once we get to the Xbox 3

Wouldn't that be the Xbox 720? They wouldn't call it the 3, because that's 357 less than the last one.

357 what you ask? .... I don'tknow either.

s1lence
09-21-2006, 05:24 PM
Once we get to the Xbox 3

Wouldn't that be the Xbox 720? They wouldn't call it the 3, because that's 357 less than the last one.

357 what you ask? .... I don'tknow either.


I'm guessing times people have questioned the price of the 360.

Mr.FoodMonster
09-21-2006, 05:35 PM
November is turning out be to a crazy gaming month this year, probably one of the biggest in recent gaming history.
November seems to be a big year every year, but this one even more so, obviously because of the system launches (and Guitar Hero 2 :D )

Trebuken
09-21-2006, 06:31 PM
November is turning out be to a crazy gaming month this year, probably one of the biggest in recent gaming history.
November seems to be a big year every year, but this one even more so, obviously because of the system launches (and Guitar Hero 2 :D )

Looking at the games in the pipeline makes it look like next year (November) might be substantially better for games...

Later,
Trebuken