Gaming in "RGB"... What kind of TV do i need?

[Slate]

OK, I've gotten interested in playing my pre-dreamcast ames in RGB. I know i need a madcatz "SCART" Cable for SNES and N64, And a mod for NES, a cable for genesis, and a cable for Playstation.

But what kind of a TV do i need?

Anytime i look on Ebay, everyone mistakes RGB TVS for HDTV.

[Mayhem]

Quickest answer: a European one :P

[Anthony1]

OK, I've gotten interested in playing my pre-dreamcast ames in RGB. I know i need a madcatz "SCART" Cable for SNES and N64, And a mod for NES, a cable for genesis, and a cable for Playstation.

But what kind of a TV do i need?

Anytime i look on Ebay, everyone mistakes RGB TVS for HDTV.



Go to ebay and do a search for "Sony PVM"

Then, once all those auctions pop up. Then do a search on your Zip Code and see if you can find one within driving distance. The shipping on PVM's will kill ya. Also, check Craigslist. Alot of Sony PVM's are capable of doing 15khz analog RGB. That's the key. You need to get a monitor that will sync with analog RGB, and that can handle 15 khz. Most will handle 31khz and above that. To get ones that handle 15khz, you have to look for older monitors from the early 90's or the very, very late 80's.


The best RGB monitor to start out with is the Commodore 1084S-D1. It's only 13 inches, so it's super small, but I'm telling you, the picture is absolutely specatcular, and if you sit real close to it, the size of the screen becomes meaningless. Also, they don't cost a fortune to ship those. I've seen them on Ebay for $40 or less, with shipping of like $25 or $30.


If you want to go with a bigger RGB monitor, then look to the Sony PVM's. There are alot of Sony PVM's in the 20 inch and 25 inch range. PVM2030 and PVM2530 are very popluar. They have a special 25 pin plug on the back that you will need some RGB dude to make a little adpater for you, so you can plug your scart cables into it.

If you have tons of money to blow, try to find a Mitsubishi Megaview. Also, if you want more suggestions of RGB monitors, check the neo-geo.com forums in the Tech section. There are guys there that can also make you an adapter for a fee.

[Slate]

I'm thinking of a TV at a minimum of 20 inches.

[Ze_ro]

RGB is really annoying and confusing, since there is basically NO standard for it, with the exception of SCART, which was really only used in Europe.

Basically the only devices you'll find that can do Anthony1-style RGB are old computers monitors, most of which are far less than 20". European TV's will also fit the bill, but getting one sent across the Atlantic has some obvious problems.

There is another option here... get a TV with a VGA input on it, and then look for a device such as the XRGB2. The XRGB2 is an upscan converter that will convert the 15kHz signal to a 31kHz signal suitable for a VGA monitor. The XRGB2 is generally known as being a high quality device, but I warn you that it's pretty expensive. There are similar devices out there, but they're also pretty expensive (if you find a cheap one, there's a good chance it doesn't do what you want it to do).

--Zero

[Ze_ro]

Whoops, I also should have linked to this page (http://www.gamesx.com/), which has quite a bit of information about RGB, including how to modify consoles to actually get RGB out of them. Be aware that you'll almost certainly have to build a few custom cables if you go down the RGB road. Their RGB primer (http://atarilabs.com/meat/2000/1201_rgbprimer.shtml) is also worth reading before you take the plunge.

--Zero

[Trebuken]

Or you can do the XRGB2 thing. Also detailed at GameSX.com...

Later,
Trebuken

[GaijinPunch]

Compressed images are much harder to find blemishes. If it was a 20", it would not look as good, I'm sure.

[Slate]

I expect to be sitting 3 to 6 feet away from the screen, So it's going to be a 20" TV.

[Soviet Conscript]

get a TV with a VGA input on it

i never really found an affordable tv i liked with a vga input. could you also use a XRGB2 and an audio authority device so you could use component inputs?

i know its not gonna be as good as just strait RGB but its gonna be very close i assume.

[slip81]

get a TV with a VGA input on it

i never really found an affordable tv i liked with a vga input.

Chances are you were sitting in front of one when you wrote this. As Anthony and others have said (and I believe Anthony wrote and FAQ on it), CRT computer monitors feature VGA input, and 20" models can be found dirt cheap since everyone wands LCD now.

Though if you're looking for the cheapest solution, you can't get any better than and old 13" commodore screen.

[GaijinPunch]

The XRGB2 isn't the greatest option. It's better than an S-Video solution IMHO, but it is not the same. It has a scanlines option which works for true 15khz non-interlaced signals. However, interlaced games, look like complete ass. Not worth the hassle.

Go with the PVM. They are very cheap (they can be had under $75), and the cables can't be that hard to make.

[dj898]

if I'm not mistaken a lot of monitors used at the hospital equipmenets are RGB variants as well...

now getting one from your local hospital would be not so easy though

[MarioMania]

Is there anyway I could get a Converter for my Component TV ..the does RGB

[Trebuken]

Is there anyway I could get a Converter for my Component TV ..the does RGB

That's pretty much what the XRGB does.

PVM monitors were used in hospitals...they were high resolution at the time they were released...

I don't think making cables is tough, but you would need some sort of priomer to get started. Translating the diagrams of pin connections takes some confidence to work with...and sometimes guess work...

Later,
Trebuken

[TheRedEye]

you will need some RGB dude to make a little adpater for you, so you can plug your scart cables into it.

Any reasonable "RGB dudes" out there? I have a PVM-2530, and if I could simply have something that converts a SCART plug to whatever freakish thing this uses, I'd be a happy boy.

[Trebuken]

The PVM-2530 uses a 15-pin Din connection that is the same sort as a PC Joystick (before USB). People create cables by chopping up the Scart cables and wiring them to the 15-pin din, thus making a PVM cable.

Anthony1 would no better, but I believe if you use an XRGB to attach your SCART connectors you would need at least on cable made, but the XRGB is not need for the PVM. You would need a cable (adapter) for each system, then a PVM cable which extends from the monitor. There are switchboxes that you can use for these connections but I have yet to find a source for one...

I got lucky and got some cables made a while back but there seems to be very few people volunteering to make them...

Later,
Trebuken

[Ze_ro]

Is there anyway I could get a Converter for my Component TV ..the does RGB
Every time you convert a signal, the picture quality is degraded by some degree, so if you're trying to get the best quality possible, you really should avoid any converters whatsoever. VGA monitors are sort of RGB already, so just altering the frequency probably isn't as destructive as converting to YPbPr for Component video. Also, any extra connectors, adaptors, switches, or splitters in the line will also degrade the quality by some amount. Naturally, the more expensive equipment generally provides less degradation.


Any reasonable "RGB dudes" out there? I have a PVM-2530, and if I could simply have something that converts a SCART plug to whatever freakish thing this uses, I'd be a happy boy.
You'd likely have to build one yourself. The pinouts for the PVM-2530 are available over here on Sony's site (http://esupport.sony.com/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=PVM2530BS) (in a PDF, page 17), and here are the SCART pinouts (http://www.gamesx.com/hwb/co_Scart.html). It looks like the PVM just uses a regular 25-pin plug, which should be available pretty easily (I'm not sure what the gender of the plug is, but you can probably just cut the end off an old printer cable). You'll have to add two RCA jacks to the PVM side of it in order to get audio though, as it doesn't look like it'll work through the 25-pin port. A female SCART connector might be hard to find locally, so you'll probably have to resort to eBay or some other online store to get one. Aside from that, it's just a matter of tying the pins together (Anything that doesn't show up on both pin diagrams is probably safe to leave unconnected... as long as you have the 3 RGB pins, ground, and composite sync, you'll probably be fine).

Keep in mind though, that SCART actually carries a number of different video signals in addition to RGB... it's possible to plug a SCART cable into a SCART TV and actually only get a plain composite signal. There's no way of telling what it's actually using... I'm pretty sure all game systems use RGB over SCART, but I don't know for sure.

--Zero

[Trebuken]

Yeah...it is 25-pin male. I thought it was 15. The cable made for me was 25-pin on one end and 15 pin on the other.

Correct me someone if I am wrong again, but it does accept audio, you may even have to input audio through the 25-pin connection.

I think you would have to have SCART cables with the audio, and then wire in the ausio portion. I think my cable was reduced to 15-pin because that's more than enough and is easier wiring, maybe even cheaper...

I thought I once read that the Sync on Green requires some attention as well, or some guess work with the pin connections...it's worth the effort...

Thanks for the research Ze_ro...

Later,
Trebuken

[TheRedEye]

Correct me someone if I am wrong again, but it does accept audio, you may even have to input audio through the 25-pin connection.

The monitor itself, you mean? It has separate audio in and audio out jacks, with no built-in speakers.

[Anthony1]

if I'm not mistaken a lot of monitors used at the hospital equipmenets are RGB variants as well...

now getting one from your local hospital would be not so easy though



Funny you mentioned this, because I actually got a Sony PVM-1953MD. These were made specially for use in hospitals for endoscopy imaging. Here is a pic of it:


http://www.medequipserv.com/images/1921-PVM-1953MD.jpg


The nice thing about the Sony PVM-1953MD, is that it's 19 inches, (Basically the same as a 20 inch TV) but it comes in a pretty compact package, compared to other 20 inch RGB monitors. Even more importantly, it has 2 rgb/component inputs. You can use them for analog RGB or component. That's quite nice, because you can hook a DVD player up to one input and use the other input for your classic consoles, or have two consoles hooked up simultaneously. There are two downsides to it. It has only one speaker, so you get mono sound instead of stereo, but I would use some little computer speakers or something else anyways. The other downside, is that you can't control the horizontal shift or vertical shift or the horizontal size or vertical size. Even internally, I can't find how to adjust it. This sucks for me, because on mine, the picture is off slightly to the left about 3/4ths an inch. I'm going to try to take it to a TV repair guy I know and see if there is some way the dude can get it dialed in properly, because the picture is absolutely fabulous, and I like it's relatively compact design.





Another Sony I like quite a bit in the 20 inch range is the Sony GVM-2000. It's a 20 inch monitor, and the really cool thing about this one, is that it can also do 480p! So you can do both 15khz analog RGB, as well as 480p, only thing is, to get 480p, you need a little adapter for the 9 pin digital RGB plug on it. The 9 pin digital RGB plug can work both as a digital and analog plug, so you actually have two rgb inputs on this one as well. Here is a pic of it:


http://www.goldstreetentertainment.com/images2/SonyGVM1.jpg


Here is the back of it

http://www.goldstreetentertainment.com/images2/SonyGVM2.jpg


Also, this Sony has controls on the front of it for horizontal size and vertical size as well as horizontal shift. That comes in real handy, because not all consoles have the exact same size image, and you sometimes have to play with it a little bit to get a perfect picture when dealing with underscan or overscan. As for downsides, this is another Sony with only one speaker, so no stereo sound. These are normally used for video editing, and they just want to be able to hear some basic sound and they don't care about stereo sound. Again, I would find a decent 2.1 computer speaker package for $29.99 or less to use with it.



I have both of these monitors, and they both look great. My Neo-Geo AES has never looked better. At 20 inches, they are both decent sized monitors, but not too ridiculously huge. My PVM-1953MD fits perfectly on a little $14.99 TV stand from Ikea.

[Anthony1]

you will need some RGB dude to make a little adpater for you, so you can plug your scart cables into it.

Any reasonable "RGB dudes" out there? I have a PVM-2530, and if I could simply have something that converts a SCART plug to whatever freakish thing this uses, I'd be a happy boy.


Did you try posting on the neo-geo.com forums in the tech support section? There are lots of dudes there that know alot about RGB. Or try the gamesx.com RGB + monitors forum. The only problem is, alot of these RGB dudes want to talk you into making your own cable, and that's cool of them, but sometimes you just want to pay a dude some money to make you a damn cable so you can hurry up and enjoy it in all it's RGB glory. Not all of us are good with soldering and crap like that. I wish I was a pro at it, cause I would make people cables, but I suck as well.


Money talks and bullshit walks, so if offer up some decent coin or some games as trade bait, it should do the trick. You should be able to find somebody to make you an adapter that would have the 25 pin plug on one side and European rgb scart on the other side. Then you just plug the Euro rgb scart cables into that adapter and you're golden!

[Anthony1]

Damn, not having the edit button really sucks.


I forgot one really cool thing about the Sony PVM-1953MD


http://www.medequipserv.com/images/1921-PVM-1953MD.jpg




if you have any Euro consoles this puppy does PAL too!!!

[Trebuken]

Correct me someone if I am wrong again, but it does accept audio, you may even have to input audio through the 25-pin connection.

The monitor itself, you mean? It has separate audio in and audio out jacks, with no built-in speakers.

Actually is has speaker attachments and does darn good stereo. Attach any pair of speakers once your inputting through the 25 pin connection. Greatly resembles an arcade monitor in sound and picture...

Later,
Trebuken

[GaijinPunch]

I don't think making cables is tough, but you would need some sort of priomer to get started. Translating the diagrams of pin connections takes some confidence to work with...and sometimes guess work...

Pinouts, and even a step by step walkthru of how to make a 25-pin D-SUB to SCART converter in this thread (http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4774&highlight=Sony) at Assembler. (No, I never made the cable though... went w/ someone elses).

[GaijinPunch]

Uggh... can't edit posts in here anymore? guess I missed something.


Anyways, the 25-pin connection DOES in fact handle audio. The cable I use has two audio outputs that I connect to my stereo (the 25" PVM model does NOT have speakers, while the 20" model does). That cable stays connected to the PVM. The other end of it is 15-pin (I think) which is then connected to a custom adaptor for each system (DC, Saturn, PS2, and my SuperGun). My PS2 one is a bit shot right now. :(

The other option is to buy a Japanese model Sony WEGA TV. These have Sony's proprietary AV-Multi connection, which is RGB. PS/PS2 will output RGB natively, while a converter for other systems will be necessary.

One last note. The PVM isn't the greatest model to TATE, for you shooting game fans. It's not terrible, but there's a little "staining" for lack of a better word when the screen goes red. If there's no red in the game, it's hardly noticeable.

[Ze_ro]

Yes, I did notice the PVM has an audio input on pin 13 of the 25 pin connector... but with only one of them, are we talking mono audio only? There's also an "audio enable" pin, that from the looks of it, would have to be tied to +5V in order for the monitor to accept a signal on pin 13.

With all that, I think it'd be easier to just have a pair of RCA jacks hanging off the cable instead. I didn't even realize the monitor didn't have built-in speakers either... I've been using 1084S's for so long I guess I take the speakers for granted.

--Zero

[GaijinPunch]

With all that, I think it'd be easier to just have a pair of RCA jacks hanging off the cable instead

That's what mine has. :)

[Anthony1]

With all that, I think it'd be easier to just have a pair of RCA jacks hanging off the cable instead. I didn't even realize the monitor didn't have built-in speakers either... I've been using 1084S's for so long I guess I take the speakers for granted.

--Zero


You know what's funny, whenever I've used my Sony PVM-2530, I've just used the RCA red and white audio cables, I didn't even try to not use them. I guess I'll have to try that next time. I also didn't know that the PVM-2030 has built in speakers. Are you sure about that? I've never had a 2030. The 2530 has speaker terminals for a right and left speaker, there are actually specific speakers that can be attatched to it, or you can use any speakers you want. The amplification is actually pretty decent, so just get two decent bookshelf speakers and put the on each side of the 2530 and you're set.


As for the 1084, I never realized just how cool the 1084 really is. It has built in stereo sound, although external speakers will give you much better sound, it also has the little headphone jack on the side which is very convienent. But even more importantly then all of that, is the fact that it has all the knobs on the back to adjust the size and shift of the screen both horizontally and vertically. I never knew how important that feature was until I tried hooking tons of different consoles up to my PVM-1953MD and my GVM-2000. Certain systems look absolutely fine on those monitors, but a number of systems seem to have the image off a little to either the left or the right, and sometimes the overscan or underscan is off as well. With the 1084, you can dial in the size of the picture absolutely perfectly in a matter of seconds. So you don't get half the health meter chopped off or anything like that. You can see every tiny big of everything that is supposed to be visable on screen. I can't say how important that is. Once you get used to that, you take it for granted. With these other monitors, the picture is damn good, and bigger, but sometimes the screen orientation is off, and depending on the monitor, it can be a bitch to dial it in properly.

[GaijinPunch]

I also didn't know that the PVM-2030 has built in speakers. Are you sure about that?

It may not be the 2030 (looking at pictures) but they do have a 20" model that does in fact have speakers. The guy I bought my 25" from has one, and I've played on it regularly. Actually, it might be the PVM-1953MD you refer to.


so just get two decent bookshelf speakers and put the on each side of the 2530 and you're set.

I recommend the RCA jacks. Easier if you already have stereo speakers (and a stereo) in your room.

Anyways, if you do wind up going with this, you'll be doing yourself a huge disservice if you don't buy an Ultimarc VGA card and get a pimp MAME setup going.

[Trebuken]

I've been passing the audio through the PVM CMPTR connection for some time now. If sounds darn good, and while I cannot find any info stating it is stereo, I'd bet it is. A receiver might be beneficial for the newer systems but the older ones may sound better outputted through the PVM, give it a chance, it has an 'arcade' sound that I can't imagine a receiver reproducing...this means cheap speakers might actually be better...

Later,
Trebuken

[MarioMania]

Does the Yellow Cord...Have the Red, Green, Blue wires..I might just hack the Yellow Cable off my Dreamcast AV to add a RGB Cables..Will it work

[Anthony1]

Does the Yellow Cord...Have the Red, Green, Blue wires..I might just hack the Yellow Cable off my Dreamcast AV to add a RGB Cables..Will it work


I think you are referring to the composite video cord. It's the yellow cord, on a typical A/V cable that has one yellow, one red and one white. The red and white is stereo sound, left and right channel. The yellow cord is composite.

Hacking the yellow cord won't do anything for you. You need a legit Dreamcast rgb cable. The thing is, why use the Dreamcast in analog RGB anyways? Just get a Dreamcast VGA box and hook it up to a computer monitor or a TV with a VGA input. The progressive scan 480p signal looks much better. Over 95 percent of all Dreamcast games have a 480p mode, so you just need the VGA box. Analog RGB is more suited to systems pre Dreamcast.

[MarioMania]

Anthony1 - the reason I said Dreamcast is I have an Extra one to Do the hack with, The Super NES AV Cord I want to try it on..Slice open the SNES Yellow Cord..look for the red, green, blue wires & I thin you might know what I'm talking about, But I think the Colors might be off..I just want to Make a Componet Cable for the SNES by by hacking by hacking the Video on the AV Cord..I don't want to spend like over $100 on a Converter & on a RGB Cable for the SNES..Now do you see wha I'm getting at

[GaijinPunch]

The progressive scan 480p signal looks much better. Over 95 percent of all Dreamcast games have a 480p mode

B/c not all games are 3D/high res.

[Ze_ro]

I also didn't know that the PVM-2030 has built in speakers. Are you sure about that?

I didn't even realize the monitor didn't have built-in speakers either... I've been using 1084S's for so long I guess I take the speakers for granted.
I've never even seen any of the PVM monitors in real life. My only knowledge about them comes from this thread, and the PDF I linked to. As far as I know, it does NOT have built in speakers.


Slice open the SNES Yellow Cord..look for the red, green, blue wires & I thin you might know what I'm talking about, But I think the Colors might be off..I just want to Make a Componet Cable for the SNES by by hacking by hacking the Video on the AV Cord..I don't want to spend like over $100 on a Converter & on a RGB Cable for the SNES
Uh, it doesn't work like that. There aren't red green and blue wires in there that you can just pull out. Most video connectors only connect to the pins they need, so if you cut open a SNES composite cable, you'll only find four wires (composite video, left and right audio, and ground). This MIGHT work with a SNES SCART cable though, since that cable WILL have wires connected to the RGB pins.

Also, component video is very different from RGB... the SNES video connector (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nintendomultiav) has RGB pins on it, but it's not a simple matter to convert that into the colour-difference signals that a component television expects.

--Zero

[RARusk]

Although it is a bit small at 13 inches, if you find one somewhere, pick up a NEC MultiSync 3D monitor. It does both 480i and 480p RGB and is perfect for your Genesis and DreamCast. I have one and it has served me well in my gaming endeavours. It can also do Composite Sync (pin 13), Separate Sync (HSync on pin 13, VSync on pin 14), and Sync-On-Green (which you need if you decide to play any Progressive Scan capable PS2 games).

The only issue I have with it concerns the Horizontal Width when in Progressive Scan (VGA mode). When I max out the Horizontal Width (like when I am playing my DreamCast in 480p) the picture doesn't go all the way to the edge of the tube. I usually end up with a quarter inch of black space on the sides on the DreamCast and a little more than that when playing 480p games on the PS2. I would like to hack the MultiSync to give me more width control but I don't know where to start and I can't just poke around since there are capacitors with lethal charges within the monitor.

And since you are wanting to use your PlayStation in RGB you need to make sure that any RGB cable you get has a sync separation chip in it. The PlayStation units do not have a dedicated sync line for RGB so the sync signal, which lines up your picture, has to be taken from either Composite Video or Luminance (S-Video).

(One question: is there a HDMI to RGB adapter out there? If I end up with a PS3 at some point I would like to take advantage of the HDMI port but I do not have a HDTV.)

Taking advantage of RGB signals is not an easy hobby to get into but once you play your favorite games using the clarity and purity of RGB you will not want to go back to Composite Video. The rewards are nice but you have to put a little research and work into it. The GamesX RGB forum is probably the best place to research and ask questions about RGB Analog and other video modes.

[MarioMania]

The onle reson I ask was..I have a 20' Sanyo TV with Componet..I hook's the Video the Yellow one to the Green plug & it displayed black & white..it has a better picture then AV...That why I asked about the Hole Mod thing..I thought ithe Yellow Cable that had Video on it also had the Red, Green, Blue Wires for the RGB Mod, I guess I was wrong..I though it was going to be easy for me

[Mitch]

In case anyone is still looking for female SCART connectors in the US I got mine from this place (http://www.designnotes.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SCARTF&Category_Code=21psp). I used a couple of them to build SCART cables for my Atari SC1435 and Commodore/Amiga 1080 monitors. :)

Mitch

[NinjaJoey23]

Ok, I've read this thread and several others on this subject.

So, say I want to try out RGB on my SNES. I'll need an SNES SCART cable, one of the listed monitors or TVs, and...? An adaptor so that the monitor/TV will accept the SCART connection?

I'm so confused.

[j_factor]

Is there a decent solution if I want to play Genesis etc. in RGB, but I also want to play my newer systems on the same set?

I guess basically all I want is an NTSC television (or monitor) that has a SCART input (or something convertable) and component. It doesn't even have to do 480p, although that would be nice too.

I want the supreme video quality, but I don't want to have to dick around with it too much.

[Trebuken]

Ok, I've read this thread and several others on this subject.

So, say I want to try out RGB on my SNES. I'll need an SNES SCART cable, one of the listed monitors or TVs, and...? An adaptor so that the monitor/TV will accept the SCART connection?

I'm so confused.

You need a SNES model 1, needs to be model 1, model 2 does not do RGB. You need to have an RGB capable monitor (I have the PVM-2530, love it...hoping to find a larger model one day). You need a SCART cable, and for the PVM you need a 25 pin cable. You need to cut and combine the two cables, possibly adding caomposite audio connections, and voila...

j_factor - I'm not sure how the RGB connections on modern sets would work with a SCART connection, but I don't seen a no hassle solution for what you want to do. You might be able to adapt and RGB cable t a VGA input on a TV/Monitor, or you might want to do the XRGB option discussed in the other RGB threads. I believe the PS2 and Xbox have RGB cables, but tend to suspect they would not be improvements over 480p and higher resolutions...

Later,
Trebuken

[idrougge]

(One question: is there a HDMI to RGB adapter out there? If I end up with a PS3 at some point I would like to take advantage of the HDMI port but I do not have a HDTV.)

Why would you want to convert a digital signal into an analogue signal? The console will do that for you without any special converters as long as you don't do something stupid and try to use the HDMI port.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Is there a decent solution if I want to play Genesis etc. in RGB, but I also want to play my newer systems on the same set?

I guess basically all I want is an NTSC television (or monitor) that has a SCART input (or something convertable) and component. It doesn't even have to do 480p, although that would be nice too.

I want the supreme video quality, but I don't want to have to dick around with it too much.
I've seen RGB monitors that have composite and s-video inputs on them. In fact, there's a couple in the AV room at the junior college I go to. I could get the model numbers for you if you're interested. One of them even seems to take VGA/480p since I've seen a computer hooked up to it through a 15-pin dsub to RGBHV bnc adapter. Both of the ones at my school are 25" or thereabouts.

I don't know how much these would sell for, but they actually don't look like insanely professional quality units, in fact they look more like oridinary TVs than some other RGB monitors I've seen.


...word is bondage...

[Ze_ro]

(One question: is there a HDMI to RGB adapter out there? If I end up with a PS3 at some point I would like to take advantage of the HDMI port but I do not have a HDTV.)
Probably not worth the effort. You might want to look into VGA instead of HDMI in this case. The benefits of HDMI are completely wasted if you convert it to anything else really.

The onle reson I ask was..I have a 20' Sanyo TV with Componet..I hook's the Video the Yellow one to the Green plug & it displayed black & white..it has a better picture then AV
Well, the yellow wire carries composite video, and the green input for component is meant for a luminance signal (luminance = brightness basically)... the composite signal actually DOES have a luminance signal combined with other information, and your TV is probably just filtering out everything else and using the luminance anyways... but without the other two cables, it has no way of actually determining what color anything should be, so it just ends up in black and white. I'm not entirely sure of the technical reasons why it ends up being sharper like this, but I've noticed this as well when screwing around with video signals.

Oh, and it's probably a bad idea to just plug random cables into random jacks, even if they do fit. I'm not sure how foolproof TV's are these days, but it may be possible to blow out something in your TV by doing something like this.

So, say I want to try out RGB on my SNES. I'll need an SNES SCART cable, one of the listed monitors or TVs, and...? An adaptor so that the monitor/TV will accept the SCART connection?
Well for optimal picture quality, you're best off building a specific cable to hook the SNES up to whatever TV/monitor you decide to use. The problem with this is that you'd have to build a seperate cable for every system you want to hook up... and any time you wanted to change them, you'd have to fiddle around at the back of your TV unhooking things.

Alternatively, you could buy SCART cables for all your systems, and then build a SCART->RGB cable specifically for your monitor. The problem with this is that you'd have to buy a seperate cable for every system you want to hook up (and maybe have it shipped over from Europe)... and you'd also suffer some slight picture quality loss due to having an extra connection in there (although you probably wouldn't notice this).

The first method is harder, but would be probably be cheaper in the long run. The second method is easier since you only have to hand-build one cable, but you'd probably end up spending more overall once you got all the SCART cables you needed.

It's not that hard to build cables... once you build 2 or 3 successfully, you'll wonder why you ever thought it was complicated in the first place.

Is there a decent solution if I want to play Genesis etc. in RGB, but I also want to play my newer systems on the same set?
Well, that depends on how you connect your newer systems. The Commodore 1084S has switches to let you choose between RGB, composite and S-Video, but I don't know of any TV's or monitors that handle both RGB *and* component video. There are probably some fancy and expensive converter boxes out there that can do this for you though. Unfortunately, the only effective solution I can recommend is to use two TV's... hook your RGB/composite/S-Video systems to one, and your component systems to another.

I guess basically all I want is an NTSC television (or monitor) that has a SCART input (or something convertable) and component. It doesn't even have to do 480p, although that would be nice too.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure such a display even exists. I think there are some TV's that can handle a component signal USING a SCART cable, but this is not part of the SCART standard, so compatibility may or may not be a problem... and I don't know if these TV's would have a nice RGB/component switch on them. Also, as far as I know, SCART and NTSC have never been popular at the same time in the same region, so an NTSC TV with a SCART input would be extremely hard to find.

I want the supreme video quality, but I don't want to have to dick around with it too much.
You and me both! Unfortunately, video standards are a tricky business... I have yet to find a method for using RGB that is both cheap and easy for us NTSC people. Because of this, I only actually have one of my systems hooked up in this method (that one being my Jaguar, as I *did* find an easy way to hook that one up).

--Zero

[j_factor]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

So would it be worth it to use a normal SCART lead (say, for Genesis or whatever) and get a SCART->component converter? Or would that cause too much of a signal degradation to be useful?

[j_factor]

Oh, also (damn lack of an edit button) - I've heard of there being a Japanese SCART, and it's different from European SCART. Would this Japanese connection be an NTSC RGB SCART? The holy grail?

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Oh, also (damn lack of an edit button) - I've heard of there being a Japanese SCART, and it's different from European SCART. Would this Japanese connection be an NTSC RGB SCART? The holy grail?
"Japanese SCART" was really only ever used on XRGB upscan converters from Micomsoft sold in Japan. As far as I know it wasn't any kind of widespread standard, so you won't find it on TVs or anything.

On the other hand, many TVs sold in Europe are capable of displaying NTSC as well as PAL, so it shouldn't be hard to find a TV from Europe capable of displaying NTSC RGB (60Hz and 525 lines) signals as well as NTSC composite. Plus, you'd also have the benefit of being able to display PAL signals, too. I don't know how common s-video or component inputs are in Europe, though.


...word is bondage...

[Anthony1]

My Sony PVM-1953MD does both RGB and component. However, the component is 480i component, not 480p. Still, I've hooked up a DVD player to it, via component, and the video quality is absolutely amazing. Best 480i signal I've ever seen. If you get a PVM-1953MD, on the back you will see these weird strange plugs. They are called BNC connectors. At first, you might think you can't hook anything up to it. But all you need to do is go to Radio Shack and get some BNC adapter plugs. To use the component input on the back of the 1953, you need 3 of those BNC adapter things. Then you plug one on to red, one on the green and one onto the blue. They twist onto the BNC connector and lock on. Make sure to put them on the "in" BNC connectors, instead of the "out". Then just plug your component cables into that, and you'll get some absolutely outstanding 480i video via that method. Of couse, with the RGB capable systems, it's better to roll with a real RGB cable. You need one that has red, green, blue and composite sync. And since that uses BNC connectors as well, you'll need 4 more of those little adapter things from Radio Shack. They cost like 3 bucks. Or if you get a guy to make you a RGB cable for your PVM, the guy can make it with BNC connectors already on the ends of them. This saves you from buying 4 more of those little BNC adapters from radio shack.



I also have a Sony GVM-2000. This one actually does analog RGB as well as Digital RGB. The Digital RGB plug is a 9 pin plug, and in theory, it should do 640 x 480 progressive, like VGA. SO far, I haven't been able to get mine to work. I've tried to use a 9 pin to 15 pin adapter, but it doesn't seem to work. It might be that my GVM-2000's digital RGB input isn't working right. I'm not sure. RA Rusk already mentioned the NEC MultiSync 3D monitor. That one does analog RGB as well as digital RGB. The one downside being that 480p stuff doesn't always fit the screen right.I might have the same problem with my GVM-2000, if I ever get that digital RGB input working right.


If you got some major cash to blow, Mitsubishi Megaviews are pretty much considered the be all end all of RGB monitors. They can do some of the higher VGA resolutions in addition to analog RGB. They also come in some very large sizes, but if you find one, it will normally cost a very pretty penny. Personally, I don't think there is one display device that will do everything perfectly. So if you are waiting for the perfect device to play all your games on, then you're probably going to be outta luck. Modern day, next-gen games should be played on a widescreen if possible, and with HDTV resolutions if possible. You can play old school games in RGB on those systems if you want, via a XRGB2+ and a VGA input or a XRGB2+ in addition to the Audio Authority box, via a 480p or better component input. But you'll then be playing 4:3 games on a Widescreen TV. That just isn't ideal. If you get a Mitsubishi Megaview, you can use the Xbox 360 VGA cable and be playing your 360 on it in almost HD resolutions, but you'll be playing it on a 4:3 TV, when the 360 should be played on a Widescreen. The bottom line is that there isn't any one single TV that is going to mix both worlds perfectly. Believe me, I've explored that option. There are going to be sacrifices either way.

The best bet is to get a decent Sony PVM to play all your old school RGB systems on it, and then get a HDTV for your living room and play your modern systems on that. Just deal with the fact that you need 2 different displays to enjoy both of the 2 worlds perfectly. Either that, or learn to live with the disadvantages.

[GaijinPunch]

love it...hoping to find a larger model one day).

Check military auctions. There was one here in Hawaii, for 2 2530's and 2 of the 29" model for $50. Didn't have the space to put them. :(


Japanese SCART

Japan doesn't have SCART. SCART is the European RGB connection. The Japanese one, which looks the exact same, is called 21-pin RGB. It is slightly different. If you're savvy, you can rewire a few connections (not sure which ones) and it will work just like a SCART connection. It was as widespread as RGB was/is in Japan (not very). There are some old monitors that support this connection.

[MarioMania]

Is there a cheaper way to get a RGB to Componet Converter..

[idrougge]

The Commodore 1084S has switches to let you choose between RGB, composite and S-Video, but I don't know of any TV's or monitors that handle both RGB *and* component video.

Except for all European flat tellies, that is.

[CartCollector]

Well, all consoles have an RGB to composite converter internally, except for the NES, Intellivision, Atari 2600, and pretty much every console made before 1981. So, converting RGB to composite gives you the same poor quality of composite video, because of the way the signal is compressed in composite video. Let me say it graphically:

RGB > Component > S-Video > Composite > RF

Whenever you compress a signal (move to the right), you lose some data that can't be recovered. So an RGB signal "moved" to composite IS composite, pretty much. Of course, you can get higher-quality modulators (left to right) and demodulators (right to left), but that would be more expensive than getting an RGB-compatible monitor, or even an XRGB2+!

Oh, and Anthony, remember that PM I sent you about the Megaviews? Turns out I found one local! Got a 33-incher for $250. I haven't tried any RGB on it yet, but I must say that even composite on it looks pretty sharp. Just got a S-Video cable with PlayStation, Nintendo, and X-Box connectors which I intend to hack open for RGB purposes. The guy I got it from also has a 27" Megaview for sale on Craigslist, so search around your area as he's not willing to ship.

[Anthony1]

Is there a cheaper way to get a RGB to Componet Converter..


At one point, I was going to have this dude build me a RGB to component adapter, but the guy explained that although it is indeed possible, alot of times, the screen is off center when using an adapter like that. So you have to have an easy ability to move the screen to the left or right or change the horizontal or vertical size, etc, etc. I didn't have any TV's with component that had that ability, so I never went that route.

You can get a Neo-Bitz board, and I think that will convert RGB to component, but they aren't exactly cheap.




Oh, and Anthony, remember that PM I sent you about the Megaviews? Turns out I found one local! Got a 33-incher for $250. I haven't tried any RGB on it yet, but I must say that even composite on it looks pretty sharp. Just got a S-Video cable with PlayStation, Nintendo, and X-Box connectors which I intend to hack open for RGB purposes. The guy I got it from also has a 27" Megaview for sale on Craigslist, so search around your area as he's not willing to ship.


Sweet! That's awesome! A big ass 33 incher. Man that thing must weight like 250 pounds or something. I saw one of those on Craigslist in the Bay Area, and the dude said that whoever bought it would need to have 3 other dudes with him, cause it takes 4 dudes to move it! You should do some google searches on the exact model # for it, and see if you can find a PDF file online that has the manual for that monitor. That way, you can know the exact resolutions that it does etc. Don't they have a VGA input on the back? If I'm not mistaken, I think they do several resolutions like, VGA, SVGA and almost even XGA. So you should hook any of the 480p capable systems up that way if possible. You definitely need to get a real RGB cable working for it though, cause I would imagine the picture is just absolutely flawless. I saw pics of this one dudes MegaView, and he had a Neo-Geo AES hooked up to it, and it looked so freaking perfect. As much as I would like to have a MegaView, I also have to deal with the fact that my Wife isn't really into me buying all these 200 plus pound TV's.LOL


I have a PVM-2530 in the shop right now (it has some minor issues I'm trying to get fixed), but my wife is kinda happy it's gone, just cause it's so damn big. She doesn't mind the 20 inch ones that I got.

[Ze_ro]

I also have a Sony GVM-2000. This one actually does analog RGB as well as Digital RGB. The Digital RGB plug is a 9 pin plug, and in theory, it should do 640 x 480 progressive, like VGA.
Whoa, whoa... Digital RGB is completely different. You won't be able to get any consoles to work in digital RGB. Trust me on this one, I spent a good deal of time trying to hook a Jaguar up to a Commodore 1902 monitor, and it just can't be done.

If you see something that says "digital RGB" or "RGBI", just give up.

--Zero

[CartCollector]

Yeah, Anthony, it's pretty heavy (172 pounds, I'm told). I've been meaning to move it to the upstairs game room, but haven't had any time. So in the living room it sits. The guy I bought it from was using it with a PC, so it will definitely do VGA. I've been looking for a manual, but haven't been able to find one. It's probably an XC-3330 or -3315. A little help here, please?

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

I also have a Sony GVM-2000. This one actually does analog RGB as well as Digital RGB. The Digital RGB plug is a 9 pin plug, and in theory, it should do 640 x 480 progressive, like VGA.
Whoa, whoa... Digital RGB is completely different. You won't be able to get any consoles to work in digital RGB. Trust me on this one, I spent a good deal of time trying to hook a Jaguar up to a Commodore 1902 monitor, and it just can't be done.

If you see something that says "digital RGB" or "RGBI", just give up.

--Zero
Yeah digital RGB is not a common thing and is definitely not the same as VGA or what normal desktop computers put out as a lot of people think. The Commodore 128 was capable of outputting digital RGB, which is why the 1902 and 1084 can accept it, but that's the only thing I've ever had that that did digital RGB. I'm not sure what else does really.


Japan doesn't have SCART. SCART is the European RGB connection. The Japanese one, which looks the exact same, is called 21-pin RGB. It is slightly different. If you're savvy, you can rewire a few connections (not sure which ones) and it will work just like a SCART connection.
http://www.geocities.com/sweaterfishdeluxe/scart.html

And man, those Megaview monitors sound freaking amazing. I think I may have just found my new holy grail.


...word is bondage...

[RARusk]

"You need a SNES model 1, needs to be model 1, model 2 does not do RGB."

Wrong. It can do RGB but you have to open it up. Nintendo, for the sake of cheapness, did not put in traces leading from the RGB pins to the video chip. All you need to to is solder four wires from the chip to the RGB pins (and running the video lines through 120 ohm resistors - the signals are very strong). There is a page at the GamesX wiki, which I am a partial contributor, that show you how to do this. I would include a link but their site is down right now (but I'll put up the link later).

[CartCollector]

I think digital RGB (RGBI) was for CGA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Graphics_Adapter). You could make a CGA to VGA adapter and retain all of the CGA colors, but not the other way around.

[Trebuken]

"You need a SNES model 1, needs to be model 1, model 2 does not do RGB."

Wrong. It can do RGB but you have to open it up. Nintendo, for the sake of cheapness, did not put in traces leading from the RGB pins to the video chip. All you need to to is solder four wires from the chip to the RGB pins (and running the video lines through 120 ohm resistors - the signals are very strong). There is a page at the GamesX wiki, which I am a partial contributor, that show you how to do this. I would include a link but their site is down right now (but I'll put up the link later).

Yeah... but you could probably make a Pong system do RGB as well if you open it up, solder a chip here, add a couple wires there. Should of said "Model 2 does not do RGB without modification, like the Model 1".

Later,
Trebuken

[Trebuken]

"You need a SNES model 1, needs to be model 1, model 2 does not do RGB."

Wrong. It can do RGB but you have to open it up. Nintendo, for the sake of cheapness, did not put in traces leading from the RGB pins to the video chip. All you need to to is solder four wires from the chip to the RGB pins (and running the video lines through 120 ohm resistors - the signals are very strong). There is a page at the GamesX wiki, which I am a partial contributor, that show you how to do this. I would include a link but their site is down right now (but I'll put up the link later).

Yeah... but you could probably make a Pong system do RGB as well if you open it up, solder a chip here, add a couple wires there. Should of said "Model 2 does not do RGB without modification, like the Model 1".

Later,
Trebuken

[Anthony1]

In this reply, I want to give everybody a little breakdown on the Sony PVM-1953MD. I really think it's a pretty outstanding RGB monitor. It's basically the equivalent of a 20 inch TV, but the nice fact is that it comes in a relatively compact design. It is kinda heavy, and it only has one mono speaker, but for all intents and purposes, it's a great starter RGB monitor to roll with. Especially if you can find one locally.


Here is what it looks like:


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture141.jpg



Ok, now, when you first get one of these Sony PVM's, you are going to see some weird looking plugs on the back of it. You aren't going to see the normal yellow, white and red audio/video plugs that most are used to. Instead of the normal RCA type plug inputs, it has BNC plugs. Here is what I'm talking about:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture215.jpg


See those weird long plugs in the middle row? Those are BNC connectors. When you are dealing with professional type video equipment, these are the kinds of connectors your going to find. In the upper left of that picture it has "Line A" and it says Video in and out. Well, you can't exactly plug your Yellow NES composite plug into that thing, can you? It's a BNC connector, and it just won't work. So, what do you need? Well you need to make a little trip to Radio Shack, and pick up some BNC adapters. They look like this:


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture205.jpg


Those little gold adatpers are made in such a way that they can kinda screw onto the BNC connectors, and then they lock in place. It's kinda hard to describe, but when you try to do it, it's pretty easy. They basically snap on there, and then you twist them to lock. Once you have that BNC connector on there, then you can use your normal audio/video type plugs. See, I took one, and plugged it onto the video in of "Line A".

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture217.jpg


That will allow me to take the yellow composite cable from a NES and plug it right into there:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture218.jpg


Now, lets say you want to hook a DVD player up to the PVM-1953MD via component video? Well, it's actually pretty easy. You just need 3 of those BNC adapters, and you put one on "red", one on "green" and one on "blue", like this:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture207.jpg


Ok, now you can take your regular normal component cables and plug them right in. Like this:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture208.jpg

That will give you outstanding picture quality from any regular component sources. The PVM-1953MD does accept component, but it is 480i component, not 480p. But it still looks great. I hooked a regular DVD player up to this, and the image quality was astonishing.


Ok, so that covers some of the basics on the BNC connectors. What about audio you say? The PVM-1953MD only has one speaker for mono sound? Yes, that is true, and I honestly recommend using some decent powered computer speakers for some true stereo sound. If you look at the very first pic of this thread, you will notice that I have two of those cheapo computer speakers on each side of my 1953. They provide very decent stereo sound. But if you aren't that desperate for stereo sound, you can definitely get by with the mono speaker. But you will need this:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture209.jpg


This is a Y-Splitter from Radio Shack for the audio. It will take the right and left stereo channels and combine them into one channel for the mono speaker. True Stereo is better of course, but this actually doesn't sound that bad. Where do you plug it in? You find the slot that says "Audio In" and you plug it in there. Here is a pic of that:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture210.jpg


Then you plug your red and white audio cables into it, and you're golden!

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture211.jpg


Now, of course, the whole reason for buying one of these monitors in the first place is to get some true RGB action going on. This is the hardest part, cause you need to find a guy that can build you a custom cable for a fee. The best bet is to try the neo-geo.com forums, or the gamesx.com RGB+Monitor forums. Alot of the guys there will tell you to learn how to make your own, that it isn't that hard, but if you want somebody to make one for you, you simply have to offer up enough $$$, and usually somebody will say, "Ok, bro, I'll do it for ya". Here is a pic of my custom RGB cable for use with this monitor. Luckily I have a friend who has helped me with these cables before, and although he's very busy, working on many different projects, he did find some spare time to be able to make me this cable that I'm using in this pic:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture212.jpg

You plug the red into red, green into green, blue into blue and the grey one goes into the one labeled "EXT SYNC". I think that's like the composite sync one. It's to sync up the picture. A regular DVD player or something using composite doesn't need that, but the true RGB stuff does. The guy that made it for me, was kind enough to make it with BNC plugs already on it, so I didn't need to go to Radio Shack and buy 4 more of those gold BNC Adapters. But if you are having a guy on the Neo-Geo.com forums build you one, just tell him to make it with RCA type plugs. One for red, one for green, one for blue and one for composite sync. That's all you need. Those 4 cables. (This is for the Sony PVM's that don't use the custom 25 pin plug).


Ok, so if you get all that done, what are the results? Check it out:


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture100.jpg

That's level 1-3 of Bonk's Adventure for the TG-16 running in RGB. I'm telling you, these pics don't even come close to doing the real McCoy justice. The amount of color on the screen is just amazing.


Here is another sample:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture085.jpg


Streets of Rage 2 for the Genesis is an amazing work of art. No question about that. Some of the best music and visuals, along with outstanding gameplay. Seeing it in true RGB is a whole nuther story entirely. Look at all the detail and crispness of the image.


And the last sample, from the world of the Neo-Geo AES:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/Anthony1fromDP/Picture161.jpg


This is Cyber-Lip for the Neo-Geo AES. It was one of the earlier Neo-Geo games, kinda precurser to Metal Slug. The thing I want you to concentrate on in this pic, is the detail in the backgrounds. Anybody that actually has this game, and has played in on a regular TV, probably saw some letters in the backgrounds, but they probably didn't know that it was real actual words written on those walls. But in this RGB pic, you can easily see that it is words, and it's pretty clear and crisp. A work of art in my opinion.

[GaijinPunch]

Those pics do look nice. Didn't know this model didn't support analogue RGB though. Definitely not the model my friend had (that has speakers).

[GaijinPunch]

Those pics do look nice. Didn't know this model didn't support analogue RGB though. Definitely not the model my friend had (that has speakers).

[GaijinPunch]

Those pics do look nice. Didn't know this model didn't support analogue RGB though. Definitely not the model my friend had (that has speakers).

[Anthony1]

Didn't know this model didn't support analogue RGB though.



Huh? The PVM-1953MD most certainly supports a horizontal scan rate of 15kHz. The pictures are showing analog RGB on that actual monitor. The vast majority of PVM's will sync with 15kHz. I'm not sure about more recently manufactured models of PVM's, but most prior to 2000 could sync with 15kHz analog rgb.

[MarioMania]

Nice Pics

On the TV..it dosn't have the RGB Scart Connection..How did you hook up a Sega Genesis up to it..

[Ze_ro]

SCART connectors were only used in Europe. In North America, any TV/monitor that can do RGB generally has a unique connector for it. Anthony's set there has BNC jacks, while the other PVM mentioned uses a 25-pin connector. I have a 1084S that uses a 6-pin DIN connector, and another 1084S that uses a 9-pin connector. This is one of the hassles with RGB, as you pretty much have to build your own cable to suit whatever TV/monitor you have.

--Zero

[MarioMania]

Like building the a RGB Component Cable for my Super Nintendo/Genesis 2 from a Scart Cable..I would pay to get it modded

[j_factor]

So um... what's this (]http://www.genkivideogames.com/displaysinglegame.asp?display=single&catno=shvc010old)?

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3778/shvc010oldfrontyf1.jpg

Looks like a Japanese SCART cable to me...

[idrougge]

That's probably using a different pinout, even though the connector is the same.

[Anthony1]

That SNES RGB cable uses the Japanese 21 pin scart like connector. It has a different pinout from the European Scart connector, but alot of people know how to make an adapter for that. Or you can plug them right into a XRGB2 or something like that.


Or you can hack the Japanese 21 pin end off it, and then bulid the cable to suit your needs.

[GaijinPunch]

The PVM-1953MD most certainly supports a horizontal scan rate of 15kHz.

S-Video and Composite are all 15khz signals....doesn't make them RGB.

At first glance it looked Composite, Component, and S-Video. I didn't see you attached doohickies there.

[GaijinPunch]

The no editing policy sucks:

Anyways, thus far, I've seen two types of RGB in Japan. The more common 21-pin RGB (looks like scart, but is not) and a 15-pin which to be honest, I've only seen supported on the Sigma control box. I'm thinking maybe old PC-98 monitors had it, but that's just a shot in teh dark.

[idrougge]

The no editing policy sucks:

Anyways, thus far, I've seen two types of RGB in Japan. The more common 21-pin RGB (looks like scart, but is not) and a 15-pin which to be honest, I've only seen supported on the Sigma control box. I'm thinking maybe old PC-98 monitors had it, but that's just a shot in the dark.

A lot of old Japanese monitors use D-15 connectors, the question is if they used it for 15 KHz.