QUESTION: Dreamcast and LCD TV

[fishsandwich]

Hey...

My friend got an LCD TC in 1080p (or something like that.)

What's the best connector to use on the TV to get then highest picture quality from my Dreamcast?

:popcorn:

[fishsandwich]

And while I'm at it... what's thye best connector for an N64? I'd love to play Sin & punishment on a HD TV but I don't know the best cable to get the best quality picture... is it even possible to get a really great quality from an N64?

[tylerwillis]

I've got my DC hooked up to an LCD via a VGA box, and it looks sweeeet.

As far as I know, you're stuck with svideo for the N64.

Some of the modders around here may be able to offer better input though.

[Trebuken]

Generally people go with the VGA Box on the dreamcast, but that can be attached to a transcoder and sent via component as well.

The N64 may have has an RGB mod that you can then send to the XRGB2 and then to the set, which is likely best. But S-Video is somewhat cheaper...

A good 1080p set should upconvert the signal anyways, and likely a standard S-Video connection can give good results with such a set...

Later,
Trebuken

[Slate]

While there *are* RGB mods for N64, I hear the current mods don't make it look any clearer. N64 also does NOT send S-Video signals, or so i hear. The best way to view N64 is through composite (Yellow jack) But the best way to view N64 games is through emulators, Wich is one reason to buy a nintendo wii.

[dj898]

no converting S-Video especially the murky N64 S-Video into 1080p would give you glorified murky S-video...

no matter how good your HDTV setup is there's simple rule - garbage in and garbage out ^ ^

[heybtbm]

N64 also does NOT send S-Video signals, or so i hear. The best way to view N64 is through composite (Yellow jack)

What the heck are you talking about? The N64 uses the same S-video cable that the SNES and Gamecube use.

[slip81]

And while I'm at it... what's thye best connector for an N64? I'd love to play Sin & punishment on a HD TV but I don't know the best cable to get the best quality picture... is it even possible to get a really great quality from an N64?

Honestly, not really. The N64 looks best on an SDTV with composite video. Everything else in my experience just looks like junk.

Here are some example pics, all using first party nintendo cables, and corectly color calibrated monitors.

N64 on a Sony 34" trnitron XBR HDTV S-Video
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/slip81/DSCN0645.jpg

N64 on a Sony 34" trnitron XBR HDTV Composite
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/slip81/DSCN0646.jpg

N64 on a Toshiba 27" SDTV composite
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/slip81/DSCN0647.jpg

N64 on a Toshiba 27" SDTV S-Video (by far the worst picture)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/slip81/DSCN0650.jpg

The HDTV doesn't look that bad, but as you can see when using S-Video, no matter what type of tv the colors are way off. On an HDTV they appear oversaturated, on an SDTv they are undersaturated.

Composite isn't too bad on HDTV, but jaggies are very noticeable and part of the screen is cut off due to improper scaling by the N64.

[Hypnotuba]

Honestly, not really. The N64 looks best on an SDTV with composite video. Everything else in my experience just looks like junk.


That's great that you took the time to take those pictures! Interesting to see the difference in saturation on the HDTV between composite and s-video. But. . .

I don't dispute your experience (especially as you have photographic evidence :)), but, I prefer the N64 in S-video on my SDTV. My gaming TV is a 14" Toshiba flat picture tube CRT. Yes, 14". :P

It's a few years old, but I like it. Why do Mario's hat and other red colors look pink via S-video on your TV? Looks red on mine. I'll try to take a picture tonight, though I don't know if I can do a comparison with composite (don't know if I still have the cable.)

I guess for me the only downside of S-video is that it might make some bad looking things more obvious. But text is sharp. . .I dunno, works fine for me!

I have no comments or knowledge about the N64 on an HDTV.

[slip81]

Why do Mario's hat and other red colors look pink via S-video on your TV? Looks red on mine.

Probably because we have our tv's calibrated differently. I adjust the picture and settings on my tv's with test paterns and the THX optimizer. TV's out of the box tend to be oversaturated, and when you adjust for more lifelike color you are generally dialing down the saturation. If you didn't adjust your tv, or did it while playing a game, that's what could probably account for the color differences.

[Trebuken]

I think an XRGB+ with SCART output from the N64 might be able to provide an acceptable HDTV picture; but for cost effectiveness I agree that a CRT and probably a standard def CRT is best. Some HD-Crt's can produce a good result though...luck of the draw though. It's looks like hell on my 1080p set, and OK on my RGB monitor, but best on the SDTV's.

The N64 seems to be uniquely difficult to get a good image from...

Later,
Trebuken

[Slate]

N64 also does NOT send S-Video signals, or so i hear. The best way to view N64 is through composite (Yellow jack)

What the heck are you talking about? The N64 uses the same S-video cable that the SNES and Gamecube use.

Sure it Accepts the same cable but it doesn't send True S Video signals.

[Hypnotuba]

Probably because we have our tv's calibrated differently. I adjust the picture and settings on my tv's with test paterns and the THX optimizer.

You answered my question, unfortunately, I didn't state myself well. :) I blame it on trying to get my idea out quickly. Sorry! Here's my real question:

I'm wondering what in the N64 would make the color shift to pink like that via s-video on your SDTV, since it looks red on your HDTV.

I definitely haven't calibrated my set correctly, I think I just turned the contrast down because it was set full on from the factory.

Here's a couple bad photos I took of the same scene:


N64 via composite video:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l206/Hypnotuba/mario64compvideo.jpg



N64 via s-video:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l206/Hypnotuba/mario64svideo.jpg



I realize these aren't the greatest pictures, but the s-video looks sharper (i'm sure some of that is due to my inconsistent picture taking), and the colors seem (to my eyes) to be less saturated. I don't know what this all proves, just showing what I'm used to seeing.

[Trebuken]

I think making the N64 picture sharper actually worsens the image. The colors blend better with a poorer image. It benefits most from vibrant colors, and less from sharpening.

I've hooked it up to my HDTV's and it is awful, yet most other systems look nice, even an Atari...

Later,
Trebuken

[Hypnotuba]

I think making the N64 picture sharper actually worsens the image. The colors blend better with a poorer image. It benefits most from vibrant colors, and less from sharpening.

I've hooked it up to my HDTV's and it is awful, yet most other systems look nice, even an Atari...

Later,
Trebuken


I'm not sure why, but I find this variation in output between composite and s-video on the N64 to be really interesting.

I don't have any problem with s-video on the N64 (non-HDTV.) Maybe because I game on such a small screen (14")? The N64 in general has a smeary, draped in cheesecloth, coated in lard look to the graphics. :) But I still think the sharpness helps, and I think I like graphics a little subdued (not fully saturated.)

In a way, the extra sharpness from s-video might be a negative (ie: reveals deficiencies in the graphics that weren't noticeable before) for every console until the Dreamcast, depending on your point of view.

I still wonder what makes the reds go so pink on Slip81's SDTV. Is the N64 TV dependant? As in, you just have to get lucky and get the right TV for it to look good? At least by my pictures, the greens lose more saturation than the reds, whereas in Slip81's pictures, the greens are OK, but the reds go pink.

Sorry to keep going on with this, and also, very sorry that I've taken part in hijacking this thread, since it was originally about the Dreamcast and an LCD TV. :(