N64 in S-video

[Mr. Smashy]

I'm creating this thread in response to the hijacking of another thread (seen below):
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92902

I run most of my systems in S-video. This includes a few systems that needed to be modified for S-video like the Genesis, Sega Master System, Neo Geo AES, and Neo Geo MVS (well, that last one's part of the consolization, I suppose). In any case, some of the comments in the link above rubbed me the wrong way so I took a few screen shots to share with everybody.

Still images may not do it justice but capturing these images with an All-in-Wonder Radeon and some Yobo A/V cables does more justice than a digital camera pointed at a television.

Super Mario 64 - composite video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/SM64_comp_p1.jpg

Super Mario 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/SM64_s-vid_p1.jpg

composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/SM64_comp_p2.jpg

S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/SM64_s-vid_p2.jpg

[Fighter17]

Of course S-Video is better. ;)

[Wavelflack]

It's dithermania in s-video. I went back to composite.

[cityside75]

I switched from composite to s-video on my 47" HDTV and noticed the difference in clarity immediately. It seems obvious to me.

[cyberfluxor]

Ya, the bigger the screen the better the improvement. 8-)

[theshizzle3000]

Ya, the bigger the screen the better the improvement. 8-)

Of course thats an undeniable fact the bigger the better right

[c0ldb33r]

I've only got S-Video for my xbox. I really noticed an improvement, even on my crappy 27" CRT TV.

If I had S-Video for all my systems, I'd definitely use it.

[BocoDragon]

I've only got S-Video for my xbox. I really noticed an improvement, even on my crappy 27" CRT TV.

If I had S-Video for all my systems, I'd definitely use it.

But I believe he's referring to the N64 specifically. It had a level of renderuing that potentially would look better with less sharpness and detail.

Personally though, my gut reaction is to stick with the game as it is, warts and all, in a big bright image. I use S-Video for now.

[ubersaurus]

Starfox 64 really doesn't look good with S-video...certain objects in the background look like shit that way compared to AV.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

If the only difference between composite and s-video was the slightly increased blurriness, there might be an argument to be made for composite, but composite also has really poor color reproduction and tons of dot crawl, so there's no question in mind that s-video is the way to go. I'd use RGB if the system would output it without a ton of work. The Saturn also has tons of dithering as well as false transperancies, but I still prefer the Saturn through RGB than either composite or s-video.


...word is bondage...

[YoshiM]

Starfox 64 really doesn't look good with S-video...certain objects in the background look like shit that way compared to AV.

This was the first game I tried with S-Video. Ugh. I swear you could see the edges of the geometric shapes used to build the Arwings.

Some things are meant to be blurry.

[Slate]

OK, it looks clearer.

[Hypnotuba]

I voted "better."

The N64 does put out some funny lookin' graphics, though. Defintely unique!

[Anthony1]

It ain't called the "Blurry 64" for nothin! LOL


But in regards to the S-Video question, I do think the N64 looks pretty good in S-Video. It actually doesn't look too much better in RGB if you can believe it. For some reason with the N64, the RGB output is very weak, and it lacks contrast and brightness. It's just kinda a dull and washed out RGB image. It's still a little better than S-Video, but not nearly as much as with other systems. In fact, I think the N64 in RGB is probably the biggest dissapointment among seeing any system in RGB. Normally there is this giant leap in clarity and color and crispness. Not so with the N64.


One system that does get a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE benefit from S-Video is the Genesis. Kamino did a Genesis S-Video mod for me, and I'm going to be forever grateful for that, because that shit looks outstanding in S-Video. It's so close to RGB that it's scary @_@

[Jumpman Jr.]

S-video only looks slightly lighter than the composite. That is really the only difference I can see.

[Aussie2B]

S-video is definitely better as far as I'm concerned, although I noticed less of a difference between the two than I did with other systems. I can't even tolerate PlayStation without S-video anymore because composite is so freakin' horrible with it (I find myself squinting just trying to read the text in some games). With SNES, I noticed even less of a difference than with the N64, though. Overall, the Nintendo S-video cable is best for GameCube.

All things are relative, though, considering I finally upgraded my Genesis from RF to A/V, and it looks so great to me that it may as well be RGB. :P

[Mr. Smashy]

I put a few new pics together. I used a newer All-in-Wonder card with different software this time around and kept the pictures at a nice 640x480.

I took a few of Excitebike 64 in hi-res mode since it boosts the resolution nicely.

Excitebike 64 - composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/ExciteBike64_comp.jpg

Excitebike 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/ExciteBike64_s-vid.jpg

The difference seems pretty drastic to me.

I don't know about you but I really like a few of the low-res 2D N64 games. S-video has a pretty big advantage in text-heavy games with lots of charts and sprites.

Ogre Battle 64 - composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/OB64_title_comp.jpg

Ogre Battle 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/OB64_title_s-vid.jpg

Ogre Battle 64 - composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/OB64_comp.jpg

Ogre Battle 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/OB64_s-vid.jpg

Star Fox 64 was brought up earlier so I took a few of that one, too.

Star Fox 64 - composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/Starfox64_title_comp.jpg

Star Fox 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/Starfox64_title_s-vid.jpg

Star Fox 64 - composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/Starfox64_comp.jpg

Star Fox 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/Starfox64_s-vid.jpg

In many of the N64's 1st party titles as well as games from Rare, they seem pretty handy with texture mapping. Most of the 3D games seem to have some kind of anti-aliasing going on, too. I've read a bit about the bilinear filtering weirdness that makes for some unusual texture blurriness as can be seen in the Super Mario 64 pics from my first post in the sun design on the floor.

StarCraft 64 - composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/StarCraft64_title_comp.jpg

StarCraft 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/StarCraft64_title_s-vid.jpg

StarCraft 64 - composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/StarCraft64_1comp.jpg

StarCraft 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/StarCraft64_1s-vid.jpg

StarCraft 64 - composite
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/StarCraft64_2comp.jpg

StarCraft 64 - S-video
http://www3.telus.net/smashy/StarCraft64_2s-vid.jpg

[Slate]

Do you just plug in the S Video cable to the N64? I thought you had to mod it to get a better signal..

[Mr.FoodMonster]

It makes it look sharper, but for the N64, I don't know if that's such a good thing. For text and non-3d objects (like the Starcraft title screen) it looks much better, but for most 3d, it looks pretty awful (Starfox)

So, I guess it just depends on what you're playing, and personal preferance.

[SkiDragon]

Do you just plug in the S Video cable to the N64? I thought you had to mod it to get a better signal..

The N64 requires no mod. Just plug the cable in and go. You can use Gamecube cables, which can still be bought brand new for $10 or less.

As far as which looks better, I'd say that the S-video looks better. No contest. Screenshots dont do it justice, you have to see it in motion, and in person.

[HotCarl]

Anything to clean up the muddy N64's textures a little is better in my book.

[Hypnotuba]

It ain't called the "Blurry 64" for nothin!


Yes, this is so true. I think overall, s-video is better, but there's no doubt that it reveals all the covered in cheesecloth, smeared with lard, placed behind a wire mesh look the graphics sometimes (usually?) have. I still love it, though. :)

Good job with all the pics, Mr. Smashy. Really generous of you to go through the trouble to do it!

[Mr. Smashy]

Good job with all the pics, Mr. Smashy. Really generous of you to go through the trouble to do it!

Thanks. I appreciate that. I think it's a good time to take a good look at N64 graphics since the Wii is right around the corner. I'm interested in seeing how differently N64 games will look on the newer hardware.

I'm hoping that most of the games won't look as odd as they do through existing emulation (like here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:N64_Super_Mario_64_whomp_fortress.jpg) and here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Ff9_screenshot_bossbattle.png)). Regardless, I intend to hang onto my N64 stuff for a while.

[jajaja]

The only difference i can see is that the text is getting alittle better. The game itself looks the same to me.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

One of the main differences between composite and s-video is something that can't be captured with a screenshot: dot crawl. Certain colors--especially red--look like they're seething with tiny maggots through composite but not at all with s-video. S-video usually still has a bit of a shimmer to it--especially on white--which is solved by using RGB, of course.

Bu then, even RGB signals can be degraded depending on your connections, your monitor, the atmosphere and air quality in the room or your eyesight, so the best option would be to have the video signals ripped straight from the N64 board and somehow converted directly into brainwave patterns and fed into your optical cortex. Boy, that'd be sweet, huh? I guess you'd see a lot of bump mapping artifacts, though.


...word is bondage...

[Juganawt]

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92902
I run most of my systems in S-video. This includes a few systems that needed to be modified for S-video like the Sega Master System

Have you got a guide for master system S-video modding by any chance?

[Mr. Smashy]

Have you got a guide for master system S-video modding by any chance?

I don't know if I'd call him a guide but his name is omnedon and he's a moderator here. He also runs www.oldschoolgamer.com and he did a pretty fantastic job on my Master System.