Are rare games now a thing of the past?

[norkusa]

With the cost of developing new current-gen games getting more and more expensive, do you think that we'll see fewer rare titles being relased in the future? With the amount of time and money being invested into current gen titles, it doesn't make sense for a company to only print 50,000 copies of a game since they'd need to sell a lot more than that in order to break even.

Plus the business of re-printng rare/valuable titles really seems to be taking off lately too which will of course snuff out whatever value the games once had. Atlus just re-printed Disgea (with rumors of SMT Nocturne being next), Konami just did Zone Of The Enders: 2nd Runner, and GQD will re-print anything rare that they can get their hands on.

So what do you guys think? Will the 360/PS3/Wii era be the end rare games or will some titles still slip thru the cracks?

[Neo Rasa]

There'll always be titles that slip by, but it will be very out of the ordinary for there to be a truly rare game compared to the older stuff. Even years from now.

Disgaea as an example, was NEVER rare, there were always a billion copies of it available everywhere online, they just happened to stay at $49.99 unless you wanted to get ripped off on Ebay. It's also notable that Atlus already reprinted it about a year ago.

What's happening now is a changing perception to what one will define as "rare." You'll find a billion copies of ______ game everywhere but people will pay through the nose for the first released that had a different tinted cover or whatever.

The decrease in number of rare games is something I would argue started with the Dreamcast. One commonly imported item while the Dreamcast was dying in the US was King of Fighters '99: Evolution (the '99 was dropped for Agetec's US release). Not only did this end up getting reprinted in the US, it got outright re-released in east Asia four times over (twice via SNK and then again by DriKore and later CapKore). For the first time since World Heroes you had an SNK game you'd have to try NOT to find a copy of.

What I think is going to happen now is we'll see the prices for whatever iteration of a game got the least amount of copies of it skyrocket while the game itself will be dirt cheap since collectors will always need to have items they can deem rare to keep their habit alive.

A good example is when Gamestop became Game Quest Direct's biggest customer. I saw many collectors annoyed that there's no cosmetic differences between their releases and the "original" versions.

[pacmanhat]

A thing of the past? I don't think so. A far less likely occurence? Absolutely. The Collector's Edition of MGS:3 Subsistence comes to mind.

I wonder, though...if there are fewer rarities, will that make the rarities more valuable?

[jajaja]

Dont think so. You will most likely have some companies that make budget titles. Many of these will be harder to find years after they are off the market.

[suckerpunch5]

Don't forget things like Pokemon Box, and, um, NCAA College Basketball 2K3. 2 different scenarios that each led to a pretty hard to find game. so yeah, it'll probably keep happening.

but I do think the above post makes a good point. there will always be variations that make something more "rare" for the hardcore collectors.

[s1lence]

Its way to early to tell. Think about all the PS1/DC games that used to be though of as common games that have turned out to be rare/valuble. Its going to take a few years to filter the crap out to see whats rare.

Right now though as we are getting to the end of a few systems life cycles I could see some games being hard to find, Tales of the Abyss for the PS2 and Xynaide for the Xbox seem to be to that could have rare possibilities.

[WanganRunner]

ZOE2 reprinted?

ZOMG!

(rushes to store)

[j_factor]

A week ago, I walked into Game Crazy with the intent of purchasing a new game. I had a specific new game in mind, one that had just come out three weeks earlier and I'd heard good things about. I asked the clerk for the game by name. He said they didn't have it. I was surprised that they weren't stocking a new game, so I went to Gamestop. They didn't have it. Tried EB, they didn't have it.

Just three weeks after the release of this game, not a single store in my area had it in stock. Now, I don't know about everyone else, but to me, three weeks after release is pretty damn prompt to be getting the game. And yet this new game was nowhere to be found.

That game was Cooking Mama for DS. And while it's not "rare", strictly speaking, that experience taught me one thing: rarity is not a thing of the past.

[Richter Belmount]

thats funny j factor i saw that at 2 local stores for 20 bucks a pop

[Push Upstairs]

I think i saw that game while wandering through Best Buy a couple of weeks ago.

[Oobgarm]

Rare games aren't a thing of the past, nor will they ever be.

Regardless of how much a dev company has to spend on producing a title, there are always companies who find ways to either make games on the cheap or bring over Japanese titles with minimal translation. And if you think about what games are currently rare, they(more often than not, barring a few exceptions) fall into those two categories.

Reprints from comapnies like GQD pose the greatest threat to collectors, but one can thank good ol' capitalism for that. But, the games that are usually reprinted are those in demand-you don't see other HTF games being reprinted since there is no guarantee they'd sell outside of small collector circles.

There will always be games that pass through the cracks, but will people notice? From what I can tell, some of the hardest to find games are the ones no one cares about.

Motor City Patrol on the NES is a good example, as well as Fox Hunt on the PSX. At least, they're games I have heard little about but had a tough time finding them. I can honestly say I've only seen them in the wild(non-ebay) maybe once in the past 7-8 years. And when they are on ebay, people ask outrageous prices for them.

[yok-dfa]

Reprints from comapnies like GQD pose the greatest threat to collectors^h^h^h^h^h^h investors

Here, fixed that your you :) Seriously i don't see how reprinting games can be a problem for a collector? Bigger chance to find the game you want and you don't have to pay insane amounts to get it...

[RCM]

There will be at least a few rare titles in this gen. If legit digital distribution happens next gen I'd imagine every title would be available thus eliminating rare games all together. All depends how they do it.

[Slate]

There won't be many rare games this gen.

There will always be games that slip through, though! Isn't the limited edition of Dead rising harder to find?

[pacmanhat]

There won't be many rare games this gen.

There will always be games that slip through, though! Isn't the limited edition of Dead rising harder to find?

I don't think Dead Rising has a limited edition. So, in a sense, it's so rare...there aren't any. LOL

[Neo Rasa]

I don't think Dead Rising has a limited edition. So, in a sense, it's so rare...there aren't any. LOL

Countries other than the US and Japan exist. ;)

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4530/xt0013boxct8.jpg

[Haoie]

I just wish some jerk sellers wouldn't call everything 'rare', even the extremely common.

[crazyjackcsa]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I don't think Digital Distribution will be a problem for quite a length of time. I can't see a time when games will strictly be available download only. Rare games aren't going to disappear either. I think looking one generation back isn't far enough. Look at the rarest domestic Saturn games. The "Holy Trinity" Of Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III and House of the Dead were easy to find at the end of 1998. Now? Not so much. Time makes things rare. you have to wait until most of the titles get into the hands of the people that collect them, and the ravages of time collect the rest. Looking totally long term, everything that is rare today was common at one time.

[Soviet Conscript]

Seriously i don't see how reprinting games can be a problem for a collector? Bigger chance to find the game you want and you don't have to pay insane amounts to get it...

well thats the problem. when you collect its usually the rare games that are hard to find that make collecting fun. i'll admit its kinda selfish on several levels. yhea its bad for the average person that doesn't have $100 to spend on a older game but as a collector its so much more fullfilling to get a rare game.

for example, i'm not rich by any standard, i built my entire collection from what i got at xmas when i was a kid and what i bought on my working class budget but i have a few rare games that i paid about $100 for. rondo of blood and panzer dragoon saga. are they really worth that kind of money? not in my opinion but there rarity and price made them more of a challenge to find/buy and gave me alot more satisfation as a collector in haveing then if i found them at eb for like $5. i appricate them more and in a selfish way i have to say it feels nice to have something that kinda says to the rest of the collecting community that i'm a fairly serious collector and i have some nice items. would one get that same feeling from having 100 $2 commons? there are some insane games out there costing $1000 and more that i most likely will never afford but they give a collector a new challenge and something to shoot for.

i wouldn't have nearly as good a time collecting if i was a billionare and i just told jeeves to go get me a complete nes collection. wheres the challenge of the hunt? although being able to afford decent health care would be nice....

[Soviet Conscript]

I just wish some jerk sellers wouldn't call everything 'rare', even the extremely common

agreed, ebay is the worst with this. if i see one more mario/duckhunt with "rare" in the description i'm going to scream

[Kitsune Sniper]

Seriously i don't see how reprinting games can be a problem for a collector? Bigger chance to find the game you want and you don't have to pay insane amounts to get it...

Reprints usually have different artwork or lack certain extras. To use Sierra as an example, they printed several copies of many of their games, each one lacking one or two different things. The boxes were -the same-; the contents were not. The only way to tell was usually a sticker or the product/UPC code. It's like getting a Greatest Hits without any indication of it being such.

[norkusa]

Seriously i don't see how reprinting games can be a problem for a collector? Bigger chance to find the game you want and you don't have to pay insane amounts to get it...

Even though it'd never happen, say for example Bandai sees how outrageously high prices are for Stadium Events on Ebay. To take advantage of the situation, they decide to manufacture a small batch of around 1,000 SE carts, 100% identical to the original ones, and sell them for $100 each on their site.

Now on one hand, it'd be great for all the NES collectors out there that don't already own it and don't want to pay ridiculous prices on Ebay for a copy. But if I already did own a copy, I'd be pissed as hell considering I most likely would have paid hundreds of dollars for it and that the rarity + value has now tanked.

Yeah, it's kind of a selfish mentality like Soviet Conscript pointed out, but collectors of anything would feel exactly the same if something similar happened to them in their field.

[cyberfluxor]

If they aren't rare you will see commons going for high prices due to demand. Look at Silent Hill and Final Fantasy 7 right now. They were highly printed and boom, stuff comes out that revives life into the game, but even before that they were still worth more than a $1 like Madden. But I'd hope there'll always be some rare title out there otherwise a consule just won't be difficult to collect for and may lose the interest of newer-generation game collectors.

[Captain Wrong]

Define rare.

[Oobgarm]

Define rare.

rare

(of meat) cooked just slightly.

[mailman187666]

even if there isn't any extremely rare games for current gen systems, that is not going to keep collectors from buying them. There are a bunch of R4s for dreamcast that can sometimes fetch up to $100 every now and again. Just think if there was a huge Gamecube rush and everybody collected for that system. So then you have say 30,000 people that are all looking for a copy of Ikaruga and we all know how often you find that one at the game stores. As all of the people who are ordering thier copies of Ikaruga there are another 10,000 people who hop onto the gamecube bandwagon and want a copy of that game. There are now that many less copies of the game and more of a demand for it. Thus making the value rise. I'd say as an educated guess that Ikaruga is probably either an R2 or R3. Same with Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 for PS2. So many people aren't willing to trade in thier copies of the game, leaving less of a chance to find it for people who don't already have it. Then you have to add in the fact that game eventually get broken lost or permanently stored and forgotten about. These all play a big roll.

[ProgrammingAce]

Namco has come out and said that they will need to sell at least 300,000 copies of a next gen title in order to even break even. If they're not going to sell that many, there's no point in making the game.

Even for smaller developers making smaller titles, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo still has a minimum requriement before they'll even allow you to start working on the game. If every game out there has a minimum of (for example) 75,000 copies, then you've effectivly killed off half the ratings scale.

I think going into the future there will be far less R4-R8 out there, plenty of R1-R3, and still a few R9-R10 due to contests, giveaways etc.

[rhiohki]

Man, I haven't posted in a while. Been on a gaming hiatus so to speak. Anyway, I just noticed the price in Disgaea drop, so I figured someone on DP would post about.

If they reprint SMT nocturne that will suck, but I still have the sealed LE version.

OFF TOPIC: What happened to the value of Shadow Hearts 1. I remeber seeing this game for like $9.00 used, now gamestop has it at $30? Anyway, back on topic,

Rarity is only one side of the equation (supply). If there is no demand, monetary value doesn't really matter. There are plenty of hard to find games that are worth $6.00. Many of you know this.

I'm sure there is a thread about the value of some of the Turbo Games and SNES games considering the launch of the VC on the WII. Right now there is a Dynastic Hero on ebay sitting with no biters. That game used to command $400+ easy. But I digress

[roushimsx]

Anyway, I just noticed the price in Disgaea drop, so I figured someone on DP would post about.


Wow, must have been another reprint or something, because it was $70 there a few days ago. Either that or they realized that no one wanted to pay $70 for a beat up copy of the game :)


OFF TOPIC: What happened to the value of Shadow Hearts 1. I remeber seeing this game for like $9.00 used, now gamestop has it at $30?


GameQuestDirect commissioned another print run of it, thank god. I was having a bitch of a time finding a copy in decent shape until they started offering the package deal of the whole trilogy. Now I have all three sitting on my shelf (I just played through the first one a few months ago and I'm looking forward to sitting down with the second sometime in the new year).

[maxlords]

There's a simple solution to this....only buy the games you WANT and don't worry about whether they might be rare :) Blasphemy, I know, but give it a try.

As for rarity, it has NO bearing on the value. There will always be rare games but this is entirely a discussion about demand and value. Someone mentioned FFVII and Silent Hill earlier...both games with NO rarity but high demand. Many of the higher priced games aren't nearly as rare as you might think, but they have higher demand or they're good games so more people kept them. Think of it this way. Almost everything from PSX on had fairly high print runs. What we have now is more like an inner city orphanage. What you find on the shelf are the games that no one wants and the pawn shops/stores/thrifts (i.e. orphanages) are taking care of them until someone that wants them can adopt them. It's just that no one is getting rid of the SMT: Nocturnes and the Valkyrie Profiles and the Suikoden IIs. And everyone has mostly learned how valuable they are so they sell faster.

There are still just as many as there always were out there....Suikoden II wasn't underprinted, it's just got more demand. It's not rarer than, say, Silent Bomber or Philosoma or whatever, it's just that MORE PEOPLE WANT AND BUY IT. All about demand and what people prefer. I bet all of you would be stunned to see release numbers on most games...way higher than you'd think for most stuff.

And like the Cap'n said, define RARE. Is it print run? Is it demand? Is it scarcity in the wild? Is it how hot the press was when it pressed the disc? Is it that people THINK something is hard to find? This is a FAR more complex subject than you all are giving it credit for I think.
If rarity mattered, I wouldn't be able to sell FFVII for $50 a copy used GH. Simple as that.

[KingCobra]

Supply & Demand will be the new factor only outside of few Proto's, promotional games, Demos ect...

"Rare" = production #'s

I think the days of few hundred cart/Disc base days are over

"Price" is set by Supply & Demand, this is why many of the older stuff has come way down in price over time. Once the true collectors have all thier rares in the collections and the real gamers/players start to sell off the pieces that they've finnally been able to obtain and play and then recycle it, the prices drop hard.

[Flack]

But there are multiple reasons why a game becomes rare. Production numbers are only one of the possible reasons why a game may be rare in the future. For example, it could be more obscure than other games (the Burger King titles, for example). Also, it might become rare because of its price (Steel Battalion, etc). There may also be regional rarities (Japanese-only releases). And don't forget recalls like The Guy Game or the GTA "hot coffee" scandal -- all it'll take is one deal like that for a game to shoot up in price, especially in a few years. Then there are printing variations, errors, misprints, and other production errors that could affect a game's rarity as well.