I have a problem with owning a game..."virtually"

[Anthony1]

Ok, I figure that I'm probably in the minority here, but I have a big problem with owning things, "virtually", and it seems that our industry is heading more and more in the direction. It's a slow burn, it's going to take some time, but it seems the industry has taken the freeway exit towards the idea of "virtual ownership", and they are going to continue down this path until it finally becomes the norm. I'm definitely not looking forward to this, but it seems alot of gamers don't mind so much. Or maybe they just aren't thinking about it too much, and they just want that instant gratification, and they aren't considering the long time ramifications of it.


As everyone is well aware, since the 360 launched last November, there have been various games that one could download for $5 to $15. These games are downloaded to your hard drive, and you get to play these games "forever". As long as you are signed into your specific gamertag, you can play these games forever, on the one specific Xbox 360 that you are signed onto. I was one of the lucky launch day owners of a 360, and I certainly looked into all these various arcade games. I downloaded the free trials for these games with reckless abandon. Some of them I even enjoyed quite a bit. Games like Mutant Storm Reloaded and Geometry Wars. Those games are pretty damn sweet, and I was temped to buy them, but at the time, I didn't happen to have any Microsoft points, and I didn't feel like spending $20 to get 1600 points. Recently, there have been some more Xbox Live Arcade games that have really piqued my interest. Doom and Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. I tried the demos for both games, and they both play really good. I like them alot. But I just have a very hard time, spending $10 on something that I will never be able to sell to somebody else. I mean, if you really own something, then you should be able to sell what you own. But with these digital downloads, you can't sell them to somebody else. They aren't transferable. I think this is the BIG reason why all these companies are moving in this direction. They are tired of places like GameStop/EB/GameCrazy/GameRush, making tons of money on the whole, buy back for a few bucks and sell for $20 routine.


Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, as well as all the publishers and the developers don't make any money off of that. I'm sure they would like nothing more than to see that dissapear completely. Going with this whole Digital Download philosophy, it would kill the whole re-sale market. You can't sell something if it isn't tangible and transferable. That's why I prefer my games to be real pieces of physical media, so that if I'm no longer playing the game, I can freely sell it somebody else, or do whatever with it. If I pay Microsoft $10 to download Doom, I can never sell that to anybody else. I just don't like that. I will say however, that if these games were only $5, I would probably buy them, and just consider them disposable gaming, but at $10, heck, I can buy a real physical game for 10 snaps.


What say you?

[Emuaust]

What say you?

Well for starters BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH,

Anthony you have a problem? I thought we already new this?


Spam response!, the Blah blah blah is a great response dont
you think Anthony? really show I tool the time to read your post.

[shadowkn55]

It's pretty much give and take. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the used gaming business model of GameStop et al. If the downloadable business to work properly, they would need to sell the game at a significantly reduced price. I'm not a going to buy a downloadable version of the game for $40 when the physical media version costs $50. I might consider the $30 price point but $20-25 is definitely the sweet spot. The game publishers might be able to make up the difference through sheer volume and the less expensive distribution costs. Cutting out the loss of oppurtunity sales through the resale market might well be worth it. The problem I see with downloads is that they need some sort of protection when your console or hard drive goes out of commission. I don't sense they will be too sympathetic when it comes to this though. Through downloads, you might be able to obtain older titles that may not be stocked anymore at the retail store.

Technically, when you purchase a game, you purchase a license to play the game on that particular piece of media. You don't "own" the game. The game developer does.

[Andred]

Why does everyone hate on Anthony all the time? I don't understand. He's usually pretty dead on.

Anyway, I do agree that there's something about buying, essentially, a bunch of little magnetic polarity changes on my hard drive that makes me feel like I'm falling down a bottomless pit.

I have a personal example of how digital distribution is a terrible thing. I bought the Half-Life 2 silver pack through Steam. Recently, my desktop computer was hit by lightning and my network card blew up (yes, just the internal NIC). I don't have money to replace it. The other day I decided that I wanted to play the HL2 single player again. So I sat down at my computer and loaded up steam in offline mode only to find that I didn't have HL2 loaded onto my system. Since my laptop isn't powerful enough to play it, I can't play it at all. If it was on physical media, I could play it no matter what.

What happens when all of your games are the same way? What if, in the future, every download-only game I "owned" was not on my PC or internet-required console and my internet connection goes down? What if the company that I downloaded these games from goes out of business and shuts down the servers? What if there is an emergency and I need to liquidate my video game collection to pay for something very important? These are all questions you need to ask yourself before you download your next XBLA game. Maybe you should save yourself the trouble and go out and get the cart/disc instead?

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

[Emuaust]

Nah I didnt hate anthony at all until he responded like that
to a post of mine.

[gepeto]

Well I thought the steam thing wouldn't work but it was the rabbit that set the benchmark. Like I said before I resigned myself to the way of the future so I enjoy and play now.

One more observation dp members are the minority the average gamers has what maybe five games. they don't care about collectors and values. I was at a store today a guy trades in 7 recent 360 games for 100.00.

Most gamers want to play the latest and greatest and then get rid of it. Most of us dper's look for the deal we buy cheap and some only used. They are hardly caring about us. I think what really put them on the fast track was certian companys policy.

Last year a eb employee told me that if someone comes in and wants a new game check the system and if a used one is there push to sell them that. Now since the conversion when they scan a new game it immediately tells the teller if a new one is in
Internet technology is alot futher along than most people realize. I foresee downloaded full games at a cheap price and the oppurtunity to trade it in(remove it from your hard drive. Then offer it up as a virtual used came at a discount 5.00 off. If 2 people trade in the 2 used are availible.

Don't think it is possible to track. Just look at the microsoft os. They can tell you all about your pc and your download update history dating a few years back.

It is getting deep.

[Wolfrider31]

I see your concerns about digital distribution but I think for the most part it would be beneficial for the industry. First off, game prices would drop (not significantly but noticeably) since there would be no more need to produce physical copies of the game and pay the transportation costs to ship them. Not to mention the costs of destroying the games if they don't sell.

There are definitely problems with downloading games, particularly the ones you mentioned. But I think these amount to nothing more than quirks that need to be ironed out. Selling used games may certainly be out the window, but distributing used games may not be with P2P file sharing.

I know the US is currently a hot spot for the P2P file sharing controversy but there are a number of things you have to keep in mind. The P2P idea has never been challenged in the supreme court and frankly its not even illegal, at least, not the way we think. When the RIAA sues someone it becomes a civil matter between two parties, and the RIAA does not have the best track record for winning suits. Mostly people just settle. In Canada P2P is considered "fair use" after a federal court challenge. I see this happening in the US as well.

The thing that makes me uncomfortable is really just the aesthetics of having a physical copy of the game itself. But think of it this way; if a game is mostly distributed online companies may be able to allocate resources to making really cool "special edition" collections, which is definitely cooler than having just a regular box.

Once companies address the quirks in the system (and I don't think the market will allow digital distribution until they do) I think it will be a change for the better. Less walking to the store for me. :)

[Soviet Conscript]

there are decent arguments on both sides. that being said personnally i HATE digital distrabution. pretty much for the reasons already mentioned. i don't know if i would call loseing a game(s) because the company you buy it from goes out of buissness a small "quirk". its a huge potential problem. not haveing intrnet access could also be a problem. i also just like to have a physical copy of something...i dunno. maybe i'm crazy but if it comes between haveing something like an acualy book or the same text in some book in adobe acrobat i'm going to go for the hard copy every time. thats kinda the same stance i take on the whole digital distrabution thing. its probibly going to happen. most people will probibly love it i'll most likely hate it.

[Wolfrider31]

i don't know if i would call loseing a game(s) because the company you buy it from goes out of buissness a small "quirk". its a huge potential problem.

My assumption when I said that was that you would have actual copies stored on your hard drive, much like the way iTunes works. Still, something would have to be done to take care of lost copies in the event that you forgot to back them up. iTunes tells you your sh*t outta luck. That's a small quirk. But yeah, its a huge problem if you need to constantly be accessing the game remotely.

[Wolfrider31]

i don't know if i would call loseing a game(s) because the company you buy it from goes out of buissness a small "quirk". its a huge potential problem.

My assumption when I said that was that you would have actual copies stored on your hard drive, much like the way iTunes works. Still, something would have to be done to take care of lost copies in the event that you forgot to back them up. iTunes tells you your sh*t outta luck. That's a small quirk. But yeah, its a huge problem if you need to constantly be accessing the game remotely.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Digital Distribution will NOT reduce the cost of games in general. Gamestop never EVER reduces their prices unless they want to clear out inventory (like those buy two get one free sales).

Also, services like Steam rip you off badly. Half-Life 2 Game Of The Year, a physical copy of it, costs $40 on average, and it contains HL2, CS:Source, and HL1:Source. But if you buy HL2 from Valve directly through steam, you only get HL2 and a bunch of demos, and it costs EXACTLY the same.

Greedy companies are what's going to kill the digital distribution industry... or at least make most people not realize that they're paying too much money for stuff that shouldn't cost so much. (See EA's recent sports game 'tutorials' for an example.)

[DonMarco]

Technically, when you purchase a game, you purchase a license to play the game on that particular piece of media. You don't "own" the game. The game developer does.
So when I buy a copy of Monopoly, I don't "own" the shiny metal pieces, colorful paper money and iconic board? The very act of buying creates possession.

This isn't monetary tender we're talking about. It's a toy. A book. Information. Product. You buy a product, and it's yours.

[crazyjackcsa]

We already talked about this, You started the post actually, Why bring it up again? Why not just post to the original thread. With that, I direct you to my post in the original thread.

[shadowkn55]

Technically, when you purchase a game, you purchase a license to play the game on that particular piece of media. You don't "own" the game. The game developer does.
So when I buy a copy of Monopoly, I don't "own" the shiny metal pieces, colorful paper money and iconic board? The very act of buying creates possession.

This isn't monetary tender we're talking about. It's a toy. A book. Information. Product. You buy a product, and it's yours.

When you buy monopoly, you own the physical representation of the game (ie, metal pieces, money, and board) and the right to play that game. Hasbro still owns the game Monopoly. They have to right to do as they please with the game (make spinoffs, marketing, distribution). If you really "owned" the game, you would have the rights to do the above.

[mezrabad]

Anyway, I do agree that there's something about buying, essentially, a bunch of little magnetic polarity changes on my hard drive that makes me feel like I'm falling down a bottomless pit.

I don't know why, but I really liked the way you put that.

Not to +1 but I don't like it either. If I pay for something, I should be able to transfer that. If there were some assurance that it would always be available to me, then, okay, great. But look at even what happened with the Dreamcast.

I've purchased a copy of Shenmue, but I can't get on line and enjoy aspects of the game afforded to people who owned it back when the Dreamcast was alive and supported. My DC copy of Phantasy Star Online 2.0 is really Phantasy Star Offline 2.0. My point is, that, in some form, this stuff has already been happening.

Here, look at Game Cube Animal Crossing, not even an online title. There used to be an Animal Crossing website that would give codes, patterns, wallpapers. That's been replaced by the Animal Crossing Wide World website for the DS version of the game.

Pokemon Emerald had a tin collectible case with a VIP card that pointed to a website that apparently was opperatint as of summer 2005, now it isn't.

As a game's experience moves more and more into the online realms more and more of it becomes ephemeral. Time once was all you needed was the console, the cart and a TV and your experience wasn't going to be much different than a kid playing that game 20 years ago. Now, even five years after some titles have come out, whole aspects of the experience are gone due to a failure to continue to support the game online.

What happens if I buy an Xbox 360 used? Do I get everything on the previous owner's harddrive? Do I include that as part of my purchase price from them? Do they have to give me passcodes so I can get online? Will the Service even let me online if the Xbox has transferred owners? I'm sure the seller wouldn't want to give me access to his credit card information, yet how does he remove his and replace it with mine? How do I put mine in if I don't know his information?

Am I making this out to be harder than it is?

Same questions for Steam products and computers/hard drives I buy second hand. Do I get those products with it or do they simply cease to belong to anybody and remained locked on the drive?

It seems like a mess and most people won't have any trouble with crapping their money away for absolutely nothing they can salvage. A friend of mine once said that no one has ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people. I think the videogame crash of 1983-84 disproves that. However, if there were another crash of the same size, would it render our hardware purposeless? It may become impossible to play anything unless we're online and registered. If those companies cease to exist or get out of the business, we're screwed. We've already seen it with online Dreamcast products.

Wow, long post. Feel free to just bleep right over it.

[Slate]

Why does everyone hate on Anthony all the time? I don't understand. He's usually pretty dead on.

I have a personal example of how digital distribution is a terrible thing. I bought the Half-Life 2 silver pack through Steam. Recently, my desktop computer was hit by lightning and my network card blew up (yes, just the internal NIC). I don't have money to replace it. The other day I decided that I wanted to play the HL2 single player again. So I sat down at my computer and loaded up steam in offline mode only to find that I didn't have HL2 loaded onto my system. Since my laptop isn't powerful enough to play it, I can't play it at all. If it was on physical media, I could play it no matter what.

What happens when all of your games are the same way? What if, in the future, every download-only game I "owned" was not on my PC or internet-required console and my internet connection goes down? What if the company that I downloaded these games from goes out of business and shuts down the servers? What if there is an emergency and I need to liquidate my video game collection to pay for something very important? These are all questions you need to ask yourself before you download your next XBLA game. Maybe you should save yourself the trouble and go out and get the cart/disc instead?

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

Exactly. I had over 750 pictures from my digital on my computer, Soon enough the hard drive crashed. I called into Data recovery, Guess how much it'll cost me to get the pictures back... $1600 minimum! Ouch!

If i want to buy a game I want it to be a carbon copy, Not something Non existant.

[Half Japanese]

I won my own personal bet that (before opening the thread) it would contain "either 3 or 4 paragraphs."

[Lothars]

I agree I think Digital Distribution is not the best way for games to be released

I don't mind steam but I will not buy games on there unless they come with a physical copy

why?

I like to have my physical copy

the thing I use xbox live arcade games is that they are not that expensive and I don't care much about a physical copy

though say I refuse to buy lumines mainly because of the price and the fact that if they released a physical copy of lumines for the 360, I would buy it without a second though

So I think that Digital Distribution is alright but to a price point, if anything that really really hurt it is that Companies that are greedy, but I know that Digital Distribution will not make game prices cheaper, IMO will always be a need for physical media especially with games.

[Eggman]

I think it is too early to say whether digital distribution is going to have a major affect one way or the other, but I would like to defend Steam a little bit.

With Offline Mode, you can play any single player game provided all the necessary game files have already been downloaded to your computer.

The Steam Account holds all your game information. So if you buy a new PC, PC dies, sell your PC, you don't have to worry about it. Your credit card info and games are all tied to your account which you can take to any computer. And if you do play games on a new PC, all you do is download the files and you are good to go.

[Andred]

I won my own personal bet that (before opening the thread) it would contain "either 3 or 4 paragraphs."

What did you win?

I'm glad mezrabad brought up the Dreamcast. That's the perfect example. Like you said, Phantasy Star Online is now 100% useless. You might as well take out the disc and smash it on your forehead cause that's about as much fun as you're going to have with it now.

So what if ALL of your games were the same as Phantasy Star Online? Or worse yet, you didn't even have a fancy disc to smash on your head. Instead, you had only a decaying, pattern on your hard drive.

Personally, the biggest problem I have with digital distribution is the lack of choice and who has the control. With an offline game on physical media, I have the power to decide when, where or how to play my game. With integrated online components and digital distribution that power is transferred to the producers and distributors of the game. If they say (for whatever reason) that I'm not going to play it, then I'm not. It's that simple.

I would think that the members of the DP forums would be more up in arms and vocal about this. I mean, there are a lot of big time collectors and preservationists around here. Myself, I'm so mad just thinking about this issue that I could spit!

[Flack]

As gamers, we have the ultimate say as to whether or not this type of business model flies. It's not enough to say "I hate it." Microsoft (an any gaming company) doesn't care if you "hate it" -- they only care if you are willing to shuck out cash for it. Microsoft doesn't care if you love XBL or hate XBL, they only care if you're willing to pay for it or not. There is a BIG difference between saying "I don't like it" and "I won't do it." BIG difference. Only one of them gets a company's attention.

If you buy virtual games then you are supporting the business model and you are telling companies that you think virtual games are a good idea. Personally, I know too many people who got screwed by DIVX discs and DRM protected music to support those things. I also don't subscribe to XBL because I think online gaming should be free and not subscription based.

If you really want to let gaming companies know how you feel about stuff, you need to put your money where your mouth it.

[nik]

I think 5-10$ is fine, the game does not need any resell value.

I mean.. 5-10$ is usually a rental charge, so I'm ok with it. I just vote with my wallet however, if a game sucks, I don't buy it.

I DO think it's cool to purchase expansions, like the upcoming Oblivion expansion, and I'm very glad to fork out the $ for something that normally would only be released on the "greatest hits" version and to play it, I would have to buy the game again.

I don't think we will see larger picture games like Final Fantasy XII downloadable in a near or even far future... not for a long.. long time.

They are just to large a scope, and we would need massive storage for them, but I do believe it is a goal of the industry, and when it comes... again, I'll vote with my wallet, and probably be an old man playing my old school games and muttering "damn kids, don't know what it's like to have something real" or something like that.

I suppose it's a comfort to know microsoft can see what games we've bought, so if we do lose them, we can get them again, so at least there is that, and I'm sure other companies will have that kind of tracking.

Reselling will be a thing of the past.. I think that's what they want to do, control the market forever, and never allow a penny out of their site, so if you want to play an old school game? You gotta download it and pay a few bones.

Could be worse, for me since I'm casual, it's not so bad, I'm not getting a boner chasing a rare game like the nintendo champ cart.... but for true collectors I see a problem!

Bottom line, they want to keep tabs on their licence's, and will end up doing very well for it.

[Iron Draggon]

digital distribution will work better for everyone in the long run if they devise a way that we can burn what we buy to a removeable disk media instead of just being able to save it to a hard drive... the truth is that hard drives are a very unreliable form of media storage, and they tend to fail in some way every few years... not the case with removable disk media like CD ROM or DVD ROM... and the lack of a physical disk seems to be the main complaint with the concept, so offering something like that as an option would solve most of the problems that most people have with it...

do I prefer having to print my own manuals from a PDF file? no, but I wouldn't mind doing it if it was my only choice, and it saved me a little money... the biggest problem that I have with that right now is that publishers aren't passing on the added savings to me, they're just charging the same price and increasing my expense by making me pay my own printing costs, if I want to have a printed manual...

ditto for the lack of jewel cases or DVD cases for most PC games now... they put the disc in a cheap paper sleeve which doesn't really protect it from scratches at all... in fact it actually causes scratches, but they aren't passing on the added savings of not including a case to me either... they're just charging the same amount and forcing me to buy empty cases, if I want to protect my disks from any further scratches after I remove them from those God awful paper sleeves... usually covered with scratches...

yep, I've been seeing digital distribution coming for a long time now, but I don't think that they will ever pass on the added savings of using this method to the consumer... they'll still charge the same price, and we'll just get less... this is already the case now, so if you don't believe that it will continue down this path until all we actually get when we buy a game is the right to access some coprporate server so we can play it online, you're in for a big shock...

[Anthony1]

I won my own personal bet that (before opening the thread) it would contain "either 3 or 4 paragraphs."



That's funny. I actually had a good laugh when I read that. LOL



As for the topic, my real beef is the fact that I can't sell the game later on down the line to somebody else. They are removing my right to sell it to somebody else. I'm sure ultimately, that is what they are really interested in. The very slow, but methodical destruction of the re-sale market as we currently know it. Look at the new version of Gran Turismo for Playstation 3. They way they are selling it, nobody is going to be able to sell their version of it, to anybody else.


Flack said we should put our money where our mouth is. Well, Flack, I'm doing my part. I've yet to buy a singe item off of XBLA or XBLM. I do have the Xbox Live service, but I do get serious value from that service with all the demos I try on there, and the online play and such. But I'm just not buying their downloadable crap. I would be interested in their version of Doom and UMK3, but not if I can never sell that off to somebody else, or trade it in, or something.

[bangtango]

As gamers, we have the ultimate say as to whether or not this type of business model flies. It's not enough to say "I hate it." Microsoft (an any gaming company) doesn't care if you "hate it" -- they only care if you are willing to shuck out cash for it. Microsoft doesn't care if you love XBL or hate XBL, they only care if you're willing to pay for it or not. There is a BIG difference between saying "I don't like it" and "I won't do it." BIG difference. Only one of them gets a company's attention.

If you buy virtual games then you are supporting the business model and you are telling companies that you think virtual games are a good idea. Personally, I know too many people who got screwed by DIVX discs and DRM protected music to support those things. I also don't subscribe to XBL because I think online gaming should be free and not subscription based.

If you really want to let gaming companies know how you feel about stuff, you need to put your money where your mouth it.

The above post says it all. Very cut-and-dry.

I'm not saying this thread is unnecessary but I already posted my views in a topic that is similar to this one. So my views on this subject are right here:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93939

Am I wrong or can't you lose everything you've paid to download if the drive crashes or there is a good old fashioned power surge that fries the system? Correct me if I am mistaken..........

[8-bitNesMan]

Flack why should online gaming be free? I'll gladly pay 50 bones a year to have XBL. It's one of the few things left keeping me into gaming. Is it free for Microsoft to run that much bandwidth and servers? It's very similar to a few years back when they had free internet services. You know they sucked compared to paid services. There are no free lunches. I would rather pay 4 dollars a month to have a service that actually works. The PS2 online service is free but its lame. And no, I'm definitely not a fanboy. I like good games on any system. As far as digital distribution goes the collector in me hates the mere thought of it. But it does excite the gamer in me. Think about how much more variety we could have in games if developers could utililze digital distribution properly. If they have no physical product to produce and take a loss on when it sits unsold and ignored they could take more chances on original ideas instead of the same old rehashes. This would also eliminate having to preorder/reserve that hot new title you can't wait to get your hands on. And I do realize that disc-based media is a relatively inexpensive method of production, but removing said production of physical copies would help the bottom line of game companies reluctant to take a chance on a good, original idea . I do wholeheartedly agree with the posters who stated that any savings will not be passed on to the consumer, but if it could get more variety iand originality into our games, then it could be great for gamers. My two cents...

[Half Japanese]

I won my own personal bet that (before opening the thread) it would contain "either 3 or 4 paragraphs."

That's funny. I actually had a good laugh when I read that. LOL


Good, glad to see you didn't get bend out of shape over it. I really only meant it as a joke (since you do tend to get worked up over the things you like/dislike, as do I).

I think for full games it's a pretty ludicrous concept, but I don't mind certain things. I just spent some MS points (thanks for whoever mentioned the BB deal: I got lotsa points and Ridge Racer 6 for $25!) on the XBLA port of Doom, but the way I see it, it's offering something unique in the Live multiplayer and co-op, plus it wouldn't be worth the time for iD software and a publisher to commit to putting a 10+ year old port of an outdated PC title on disc.

I don't buy music on iTunes for the same reason I don't buy 'virtual' games: as a consumer, I highly value having a tangible product that I can display, sell and actually hold in my hands. I also like having free reign on how I use my purchases, something that gets lost in the digital shuffle more often than not.

It's been said before and it bears repeating: vote with your wallets. Hell, when it comes down to it, the ol' wallet vote holds more changing power than a political vote. It promptly flushed Circuit City's half-baked Divx scheme right down the shitter where it belonged in the first place and will continue to do the same (I predict the "Dualdisc" music format will be going that way soon) to other less-than-desirable ideas and formats.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Am I wrong or can't you lose everything you've paid to download if the drive crashes or there is a good old fashioned power surge that fries the system? Correct me if I am mistaken..........All the games and addons you bought and downloaded on your XBL account will be redownloaded once you get a new 360, if your computer gets damaged or if the hard drive gets wiped. That's a good thing, at least, you don't have to buy things again.

[WhoMetFan]

I don't know...I just don't want the digital distribution craze to ruin that good old feeling I used to get when I'd be driving back home from the game store with a new game I couldn't wait to play. And yeah, I do find EB's trade policy bullshit, but I would hate to lose all those games I bought if my hardrive ever crashed.

[TurboGenesis]

It looks that the video game industry will be moving to digital distribution before long, likely the next gen consoles(the gen after PS3, Wii, 360). The console of the future will be nothing more than a large hard drive. Look at other forms of entertainment...itunes, on demand cable, XBL/Virtual console. Nintendo is likely testing their future stratagy with the virtual console. I already predict that Apple will have a console in the future which will basically work like an ipod.

I really enjoy my "brick and motar" games. Physical copies with cases/boxes and artwork. Manuals to glance at. But the way of the future seems to move toward downloading everything from music, movies, and games.

[SkiDragon]

If all games are "virtual" only, then there is little incentive to not just get an illegal copy.

[NintenDk]

you can sell it, sell the console

[Griking]

Am I wrong or can't you lose everything you've paid to download if the drive crashes or there is a good old fashioned power surge that fries the system? Correct me if I am mistaken..........All the games and addons you bought and downloaded on your XBL account will be redownloaded once you get a new 360, if your computer gets damaged or if the hard drive gets wiped. That's a good thing, at least, you don't have to buy things again.

You get to re-download it for as long as Microsoft makes the game available on XBL. I'm sure that they'll eventually phase out older games that they don't think are profitable anymore. Once that happens I suppose you'd be pretty much screwed.