MMR: Is Sony to blame for launch violence?

[Ed Oscuro]

http://www.twitchguru.com/2006/11/20/mmr/index.html

Well, I'm wondering if anybody has memories of violence around the 2000 launch of the PS2. I don't remember reading about it, but I hadn't been paying as much attention as I am now. Personally, I think the article is crap - the whole article is predicated on an assertion (the PS2 launch was an experience that would warn them for future launches) that they didn't even bother to illustrate with an example.

Responses to the article here (mostly negative):

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/games/MMR-Sony-Blame-PlayStation-Launch-Violence-ftopict96755.html

As an aside, this is my first experience reading something on twitchgamer. I'll have to check there in the future, naturally.

[slip81]

oh brother. . .

[Ed Oscuro]

I know, I know. But seriously. Were the streets set afire when the PS2 launched, or is this guy full of it?

[jajaja]

LOL thats like blaming Smith & Wesson because their guns kill people. Does he think that Sony can mindcontrol all the freaks out there that get violent because a console is getting out?

[s1lence]

I don't remember alot of violence on the PS2 launch. I do remember hearing stories of people getting pushed and kicked but thats about it.

[diskoboy]

Honestly, I see where the writer might be coming from...

360 launch had no reported violence that I remember.
Same with the Wii.

The PS3 had shooting, robbings, etc.... And in droves, as well..

And I worked at a Babbages when the PS2's were released... Aside from a little shoving, there was no violence that I recall. But I did wanna kill the 200+ people a day that called you asking if you'd gotten any in those first few months. Some people would call 3 times in one day.

[Richter Belmount]

H

The PS3 had shooting, robbings, etc.... And in droves, as well..
.

Damn Sony otakus.

[Ed Oscuro]

Honestly, I see where the writer might be coming from...
y'know, I think it's every writer's responsibility to explain this sort of stuff so we aren't left guessing. Yeah, I'm off topic again, but sheesh.

So I take it that's a no so far. I'll scour the web with Google, not sure if I'll find anything. Also need to look at the PSP launch.

[Half Japanese]

People, I beg of you: please stop giving attention to insignificant self-serving garbage so that one day we may achieve victory over horseshit.

[lendelin]

Quote:
"Sony should have constructed a simple policy for forming and managing lines at retail locations; the company should have demanded a stronger presence from store security and local police, for example. And you'd be amazed how helpful an official roll call list and a hundred yards of velvet rope can be in maintaining order. If the stores were unwilling to play ball, then Sony should have taken a line from the Soup Nazi and yelled 'No PS3 for you!'"


Comment: How dumb and confused can someones logic get? If someone can blame Sony for these supposed incidents you could also blame the Easter Bunny.

[slip81]

I know, I know. But seriously. Were the streets set afire when the PS2 launched, or is this guy full of it?

Not that I can recall. The PS3 was the first American console launch that I can think of that came with violence.

Not sure about Japan though.

[Iron Draggon]

well I have to agree, if Sony didn't see this shit coming, they're incredibly stupid... but of course they saw it coming... they want shit like this to happen... that's why once again they're faking some kind of chip shortage to keep the hype up and the demand high, just like they did with the PS2... they want people to scalp PS3's on ebay for 3 times the suggested retail... and ebay wants that too... that's why they co-conspired with Sony to make sure that it would happen... you can dismiss the obvious and write it all off as a mere coincidence if you want, but there's a reason why shit like this always happens when Sony launches a new console... and it's because it's what they want to happen... otherwise they'd hold the new console off the market entirely until they can produce it in sufficient numbers to meet the demand for it... but that's not the strategy that they choose... and they should be held accountable for choosing that strategy... kudos to the mayor of Boston for having the guts to call them on it... more should do the same

[slip81]

well I have to agree, if Sony didn't see this shit coming, they're incredibly stupid... but of course they saw it coming... they want shit like this to happen... that's why once again they're faking some kind of chip shortage to keep the hype up and the demand high, just like they did with the PS2... they want people to scalp PS3's on ebay for 3 times the suggested retail... and ebay wants that too... that's why they co-conspired with Sony to make sure that it would happen... you can dismiss the obvious and write it all off as a mere coincidence if you want, but there's a reason why shit like this always happens when Sony launches a new console... and it's because it's what they want to happen... otherwise they'd hold the new console off the market entirely until they can produce it in sufficient numbers to meet the demand for it... but that's not the strategy that they choose... and they should be held accountable for choosing that strategy... kudos to the mayor of Boston for having the guts to call them on it... more should do the same

back, and to the left. . .back, and to the left

[dendawg]

If Sony's responsible for the launch riots, then Pac-Man's responsible for making me fat!

[diskoboy]

Then, you have this...

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/03/north-carolina-deputy-kills-suspected-ps3-thief-and-his-dog/

[Ed Oscuro]

People, I beg of you: please stop giving attention to insignificant self-serving garbage so that one day we may achieve victory over horseshit.
I figured a few minutes of your time would be good so I can parody the hell out of it on the Contra H.Q. (WIP).

[maxlords]

I'd say Sony should be held liable. They created an artificial hype, a limited supply, and encouraged all of this. They also pulled shipments at the last minute...AFTER people were camped out. Certainly they should be liable in some manner. With actual shipments so low, they were planning on using the media coverage to sweep away people's thoughts of the Wii...it's obvious IMO. I'd think there'd be at least a reasonable case against them.

[Ed Oscuro]

!

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/foreigners-and-fights-ps3-jpn-launchs-dark-side-214130.php

[Push Upstairs]

I thought people were mugged and shot over *MONEY*, not PS3's.

[jajaja]

I'd say Sony should be held liable. They created an artificial hype, a limited supply, and encouraged all of this. They also pulled shipments at the last minute...AFTER people were camped out. Certainly they should be liable in some manner. With actual shipments so low, they were planning on using the media coverage to sweep away people's thoughts of the Wii...it's obvious IMO. I'd think there'd be at least a reasonable case against them.

I would say the hype was pretty real or else people wouldnt stay in line for days just to get a PS3. You really think Sony should be held liable for this? That would be like saying that the wife of a wifebeater should be held liable because she made her husband angry and he beat her half to death, because she knew if he got angry he would hit.

Sony might have known that there would be some pushing because of the low supply, but there is no way you can justify violence because of reasons like this. Besides, this is a material thing! If it was a foodline in a war or something where people really needed the food i could "accept" the fighting because food is something you must have, a material thing like a console isnt.

[n.ooka]

LOL thats like blaming Smith & Wesson because their guns kill people.

You are absolutely right about the Smith & Wesson comment. It's not Sony's fault at all. The blame falls right on the idiots who commit these crimes.


Does he think that Sony can mindcontrol all the freaks out there that get violent because a console is getting out?

They weren't doing it because Sony was releasing a new console. They did it because they thought they could make a quick buck off ebay.

[gepeto]

My take is the violence was due to 90 percent of the buyers desperate to get the ps3 to ebay. They were moving and covering stores at all costs in packs. It was so sad. DOn't anyone find it funny how here in the gaming forum so little is talked about the ps3. Thats because people were blocked by the resellers.

The media ebay everbody was in on it. it was just a madhouse. On launch day gangs were driving around with there nextels paying homeless people off for standing in line. Crazy stories of people offering 5000 for one.

It had people that were buying saying if I don't sell it i'll return it. The gamers truly lost out on this one. people on ebay with 8 systems in the picture.

Ebay hurt sony more than it could have imagined. People weren't talking about how grat it is rather how much people will pay. The ones that did get one are left with the your stupid if you open it and play it sell that baby.

[tom]

there was violence in japan when the snes was launched, nothing new here...

[Emuaust]

I am at the end of the day, ultimatley accountable for my actions, whatever
i do, right or wrong. It is ignorant and stupid to pass the blame on to someone else.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is STUPID, I mean FFS are you guys for real saying Sony
are to Blame? jesus christ, are you pissed cause you missed out?

Say Im a petrol(Gasoline) sniffer, i break into a house and kill someone to steal
there money so i can maintain my drug habit, who do I sue or hold accountable?

Me or the worlds oil company's?

Texaco you stupid company its all your fault I killed someone!



Dumbest thread ever with some very stupid responses


Rant over.

[Nature Boy]

I'd say Sony should be held liable. They created an artificial hype, a limited supply, and encouraged all of this. They also pulled shipments at the last minute...AFTER people were camped out. Certainly they should be liable in some manner. With actual shipments so low, they were planning on using the media coverage to sweep away people's thoughts of the Wii...it's obvious IMO. I'd think there'd be at least a reasonable case against them.

Sorry dude, I think that's totally bunk.

'Encouraged all of this' - is that to imply they encouraged people to violence? Doesn't that seem ... well, like you're giving Sony *too* much credit for their marketing efforts? I mean were they so brilliant they decided regular media coverage wasn't enough so they figured they'd get that extra bit of coverage with a few assaults?

Do I think console manufacturers limit supply to generate hype? Absolutely.

If anyone is to blame in all this it's us, the video game consumer. We're the ones who get all frantic if we don't get what we want *right freaking now* We're the ones over-paying for stuff on eBay. Sony is just playing the market for what it is - if we stopped the launch day insanity the launch day tactics would change.

[Flack]

While Sony may be responsible for the shortages, the people that will be held liable for the violence will be the retailers. I don't think you can sue Sony for only delivering x amount of consoles, but if a retailer allows people to line up in their parking lot and you get robbed in that parking lot, legally they are liable. That is why people are suing Wal-Mart right now and not Sony. And of course we all know that ultimately individuals are responsible for their own actions, but it's tough to become a millionaire suing individual thieves -- that is why people will go after the retailers.

I hope this forum is up five years from now, so someone can quote me on this. The PS3 launch will be the last launch of its kind. Retailers will not risk lawsuits and people getting robbed or killed over gaming systems in the future. The next generation of videogame consoles will be launched either online or through pre-sales only. Quote me on that.

[Iron Draggon]

the first two paragraphs of this article sum it up really well:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061129/ap_en_re/games_news_bytes_1

I agree with the previous poster... it will never happen again

[Push Upstairs]

I hope this is the last launch to be like this.

Mugging and Ebay profiteering on launch systems should become a thing of the past.

[jajaja]

there was violence in japan when the snes was launched, nothing new here...

Yep, i remember reading at Wikipedia (i think) that a guy burned down a house because he didnt get Zelda 3 at launch. Then you're fucking crazy hehe.

[Nature Boy]

While Sony may be responsible for the shortages, the people that will be held liable for the violence will be the retailers. I don't think you can sue Sony for only delivering x amount of consoles, but if a retailer allows people to line up in their parking lot and you get robbed in that parking lot, legally they are liable. That is why people are suing Wal-Mart right now and not Sony. And of course we all know that ultimately individuals are responsible for their own actions, but it's tough to become a millionaire suing individual thieves -- that is why people will go after the retailers.

I hope this forum is up five years from now, so someone can quote me on this. The PS3 launch will be the last launch of its kind. Retailers will not risk lawsuits and people getting robbed or killed over gaming systems in the future. The next generation of videogame consoles will be launched either online or through pre-sales only. Quote me on that.
Totally agree with your last point dude, although I'm not sure how it'll work if they can't meet their pre-determined pre-order numbers.

[udisi]

I hate sony but I won't blame them for the PS3 launch violence. It was totally the people. the PS3 costs $600 and the people buying them are older and look at the playstation's player demographic. all the thuggish people play playstation. I stood in line for a wii, I failed to get one but it was mostly soccer moms with their kids and game nerds in the line. The other thing that was different with wii launch was where I was the were selling them 1 at a time and the purchaser was duel escorted out to their cars.

really though I think it was the purchaser demographic that had most to do with it. more thuggish people wanted a PS3, and thus it got hectic.

[jajaja]

Really though I think it was the purchaser demographic that had most to do with it. more thuggish people wanted a PS3, and thus it got hectic.

Also the money. "Everyone" thought they could get like $2000 for the PS3 on Ebay.

[Flack]

the PS3 costs $600 and the people buying them are older and look at the playstation's player demographic. all the thuggish people play playstation ... really though I think it was the purchaser demographic that had most to do with it. more thuggish people wanted a PS3, and thus it got hectic.

That's a very interesting observation, one I have not heard before. Do you have any facts to back this up?

[udisi]

no of course my statement is based on observation. I'm sure there is some demographic research done internally at sony and game publishers, but they're is no public research that I'm aware of. I base my statement off of store front sales. I have many friends that work in game retail, and I've been there myself and I've seen who buys what. The PS2 is the system that sold to these people the most, oddly enough before that the Dreamcast was also a system frequented by the more shady people. I agree that maybe the idea of flipping these on ebay for 2k could have made the situation even more volitile. With the statement I made I was trying mostly to say that people who usually have no quals about stealing and or resorting to violence were far more interested in the PS3 than the wii. Not saying that all that were interested in a PS3 are like that, but that the shady people demographic was interested and thus in a much larger presence at PS3 launch than at wii launch.

If you ask how I identify these people, they're the same ones who come in with backbacks full of seaed games trying to trade them in. Some of which if not all are obviously stolen.

[itobandito]

well I don't think Sony is to blame per say HOWEVER, I do think that this is a problem that needs to be corrected. Personally I don't think camping should be allowed, its very dangerous for customers. 2 hours before store opens tops. Yeah I know probably impossible to do. If a retailer does allow camping then they should hire security for the customers since they ARE on the stores property. Sony should help in getting the retaliers to do either of these. I also think that there needs to be a specific number of consoles ready on day one for a system to be launched. This is something that the goverment, retailers, and hardware compaines should deal with and enforce. Just my thoughts.

[Hep038]

no of course my statement is based on observation. I'm sure there is some demographic research done internally at sony and game publishers, but they're is no public research that I'm aware of. I base my statement off of store front sales. I have many friends that work in game retail, and I've been there myself and I've seen who buys what. The PS2 is the system that sold to these people the most, oddly enough before that the Dreamcast was also a system frequented by the more shady people. I agree that maybe the idea of flipping these on ebay for 2k could have made the situation even more volitile. With the statement I made I was trying mostly to say that people who usually have no quals about stealing and or resorting to violence were far more interested in the PS3 than the wii. Not saying that all that were interested in a PS3 are like that, but that the shady people demographic was interested and thus in a much larger presence at PS3 launch than at wii launch.

If you ask how I identify these people, they're the same ones who come in with backbacks full of seaed games trying to trade them in. Some of which if not all are obviously stolen.

OMG that was the funniest post evar!

[Push Upstairs]

well I don't think Sony is to blame per say HOWEVER, I do think that this is a problem that needs to be corrected. Personally I don't think camping should be allowed, its very dangerous for customers. 2 hours before store opens tops.

I just flat out think camping should be banned. I'd also say that Ebay should step up and not accept the selling of newly released or soon to be released systems for at least a month after release.

But none of that is going to happen because $$ talks.


All this camping, buying, selling on Ebay shit really just takes any fun out this hobby. It's become nothing more than a race to see who can acquire how many of what and how much they can profit off it online.