Nintendo could have done so much more with Virtual Console

[Anthony1]

With all the things that people are bitching about, when it comes to the Nintendo Wii, I'm suprised nobody is bitching more about the fact that they really didn't do anything with the Virtual Console games. When I first heard about Virtual Console, I was so excited about it, because as much as I enjoy Xbox Live Arcade, Nintendo has a much stronger back catalog of games to draw upon. So naturally, I just assumed that Nintendo would basically do the exact same thing that Microsoft has done, only with their much better lineup of classics. I thought that online play would be a given. I thought they would take a game like F-Zero for the Super Nintendo, and leave the game basically unchanged, but add online multiplayer with 4 players. You and 3 other gamers from across the country or across the world could play together in a F-Zero race, with your own individual perspective. I mean, how hard would that have really been to implement? I figured there would be online leaderboards and worldwide rankings and such, and I was even hoping that Nintendo would some how copy the achievement system.

See for me, being a retro gamer, there is no incentive for me to pay $8 to play F-Zero. I have the rom on my PC, the rom on my PSP, and several F-Zero carts for my SNES laying around my house. Why pay $8 for what I already got? Now, having said that, if there was online multiplayer and leaderboards and stuff like that, I would have been all over it. Even though I can go up to GameCrazy and get a F-Zero cart for a few bucks, I would have paid the full $8 to be able to race around with people from all over the world. Of course, one thing that I would be missing would be some kind of headset. It would be even more fun to be able to talk to the other gamers while you are playing. Especially if they came out with Contra 3: the Alien Wars with online co-op. Just imagine being able to play that game in co-op mode, while you are chatting with a buddy as you go through the game. Or playing ZAMN in online co-op while playing with a friend.

Don't get it twisted, I think the Wii is a really cool system, and it definitely has it's own unique flavor, but man, I really think they totally dropped the ball when it comes to the Virtual Console. i don't know why people would pay $8 for just a straight rom with no ehancements. Why not just go get the cart at GameCrazy and save yourself $5 plus have something physical and real, and tangible instead of some virtual ownership of a rom?

[Leo_A]

Because it isn't possible to do it via emulation, you should've put some thought into it. You either rewrite the games, or don't do it. Doing it like ZSNES does means the non host will always have noticable lag in controller inputs.

if you want Nintendo to dedicate the resources to porting games, and maybe releasing two or three a year at $20 a game, I'm sure they could've. What you've seen from Xbox Live Arcade are entirely original games, a PC game that supported online play to start with, and relatively simple 80s arcade titles that were ported.

So in the end, just like the people that just assumed the Xbox 360 would be 100% backwards compatible despite reports from MS that never indicated it, its your own fault, not Nintendo's.

[Anthony1]

Because it isn't possible to do it via emulation, you should've put some thought into it. You either rewrite the games, or don't do it. Doing it like ZSNES does means the non host will always have noticable lag in controller inputs.

if you want Nintendo to dedicate the resources to porting games, and maybe releasing two or three a year at $20 a game, I'm sure they could've. What you've seen from Xbox Live Arcade are entirely original games, a PC game that supported online play to start with, and relatively simple 80s arcade titles that were ported.

So in the end, just like the people that just assumed the Xbox 360 would be 100% backwards compatible despite reports from MS that never indicated it, its your own fault, not Nintendo's.


Of course, they would have had to rework the code, but how freaking hard would it have been? I personally don't think it would have been all that complicated, and since they've known about the Virtual Console for a long time, they could have started work on it a long, long time ago. Games like F-Zero and Golden Axe and Dungeon Explorer could have had their code reworked a long time ago for online multiplayer, and they would have been ready on day 1 of the Wii launch.

[robotriot]

I don't think it's all that trivial, recoding games written in assembler ages ago for TCP/IP and all that. Not that it's much of an excuse, but I didn't expect that anyway. It's not like they announced you'd be able to do that with their Virtual Console feature, or did they?.

[Darth Sensei]

It's a rip off and I wouldn't pay. But then again, I didn't re-buy them for GBA either.

I've only bought a couple of the Xbox live retro games and that's because of the enhancements you mentioned.

[Sothy]

It should support RGB

[Garry Silljo]

I'm going to use it for some turbo Grafx games I was interested in trying/playing through. For me searching out a system and then paying the prices it demands today isnt worth it for the few games I want to try. They may get $10-20 out of me for that. Otherwise NES,SNES,64,Genesis I will just be sticking to the original hardware. I would enjoy but never expeted online play. I don't think I was ever promised that.

[Emuaust]

It should support RGB


Post of the Year?

[s1lence]

Nah, Sothy has had some much better ones this year. Though the RGB line never really gets old. :)

[ubersaurus]

I don't own F-Zero. I don't know Bonk, I don't own Super Star Soldier. I bought all of these games, and I'm not looking for any extra functionality. And why? Because they're cheaper than buying them for their respective systems, and in the case of the SNES, I don't even own one. I'd have to pay 20+ bucks to get one.

I don't expect online play or any shit like that from an emulated game, and what's more, what sort of functionality would I want? Why would I want to play F-Zero time trials online when I could just wait for nintendo to put those resources into a new online F-Zero game for wii?

Yes, you get those games on xbox live arcade, and they're online. They're also pretty damn simple and in most cases, pretty short little arcade ports or puzzle games. Here you're paying about the same amount of money for an ENTIRE game. Obviously it doesn't matter to you if you already own the shit, but for people who don't, and don't want to pay out for the console, the games, the controllers, find a place to hook it up, and pay the extra bit of electricity that the machine will need, they can do this. They get a save feature of sorts in games that didn't have them, they get cleaned up N64 games, they get 480p support for machines that didn't exist when that came around. That's fine for me.

You want 4 player F-Zero online, Nintendo may as well redo the entire fucking game, and if they're gonna do that, they may as well make a brand new game.

[slip81]

It would be nice, but I think a bit impractical to put online for most of the games, though I agree, if it was done for Contra and UMK3 it shouldn't be that hard to do it for F-Zero.

Now if Mario Kart 64, Mario Party and Goldeneye don't have multi player, that'll be a problem. Those games were built for multi player, and would benefit the most from an online enhancement.

[Anthony1]

I guess what actually happened is that Xbox Live Arcade set me up with false expectations. After seeing and playing Xbox Live Arcade, I naturally assumed that Sony and Nintendo would copy the idea inside and out. I thought it would be a given that all these games would have online play. I thought it was a given that all these games would have leaderboards and some kind of achievement type thing. I guess my expectations where way out of whack with reality. I honestly didn't know that it would be that hard to add online functionality. You would think for games that originally had the option for two player simultaneous play, they could trick the emulator into thinking that "player 2" was sitting in your living room, rather than being across the country or the world.

It's just right now, there isn't a single game virtual or not, that can be played online with the Wii. That just seems rather odd to me. They have the Wi-Fi built in, so you would think that Nintendo has finally come around to the idea of playing games online. But yet, not a single game features online play. If some of the Virtual Console games at least had online play, then it would be a nice thing to hold people over till more of the Wii games have online play. Just imagine playing Dungeon Explorer for the TG-16 with online support. Man, that game is fun as can be with extra people playing. Back in the day, I had a TurboTap, and me and 4 other friends played the game at the same time. 5 freaking players playing at the same time, going through the dungeons, shooting at the monsters, it was absolutely awesome. I just wish I could repeat that experience now. The thing is, those 4 friends are now scattered across the country, and if there was online play, and a headset, we could relive those memories.

It really sucks that Microsoft is the only one doing things right when it comes to this, because I'm not really interested in the retro fare they have lined up. Sony supposedly has Neo-Geo and might have some other announcements, and Nintendo has their back catalog as well as some love from the Genesis and TurboGrafx. Microsoft keeps bringing out old Arcade games, and that's cool, but my real love is with the classic console games. I can't begin to explain how awesome it would be to play games like Super Mario Kart for the SNES online, with leaderboards and everything that comes with it.

Somebody mentioned that if they are going to re-work the code, they might as well make a whole new game, but I'm not interested in a whole new game. I'm just interested in doing exactly what I did back in the day, except, I'm not a little kid anymore, and I don't have Johnny living across the street, and I can't go to his house and ask his mommy if he can come over to my house and play Wii. I'm grown up now, and my good buddies are scattered around the US, and I see them on XBLA sometimes, but all of us wish we could really get together and play the true classic console games.

[jajaja]

Nah, Sothy has had some much better ones this year. Though the RGB line never really gets old. :)

Its not so fun when Wii actually supports RBG, Nintendo even made a own RGB cable just for Wii. So yes, it does support RGB hehe ;) :p

[suppafly]

You WOULDNT need to rewrite the games to support multiplayer.

For instance, SEVERAL genesis emulators support multiplayer over the internet via TCP IP. Those games, obviously, werent reprogrammed in any way.

[ubersaurus]

I guess what actually happened is that Xbox Live Arcade set me up with false expectations. After seeing and playing Xbox Live Arcade, I naturally assumed that Sony and Nintendo would copy the idea inside and out. I thought it would be a given that all these games would have online play. I thought it was a given that all these games would have leaderboards and some kind of achievement type thing. I guess my expectations where way out of whack with reality. I honestly didn't know that it would be that hard to add online functionality. You would think for games that originally had the option for two player simultaneous play, they could trick the emulator into thinking that "player 2" was sitting in your living room, rather than being across the country or the world.

It's just right now, there isn't a single game virtual or not, that can be played online with the Wii. That just seems rather odd to me. They have the Wi-Fi built in, so you would think that Nintendo has finally come around to the idea of playing games online. But yet, not a single game features online play. If some of the Virtual Console games at least had online play, then it would be a nice thing to hold people over till more of the Wii games have online play. Just imagine playing Dungeon Explorer for the TG-16 with online support. Man, that game is fun as can be with extra people playing. Back in the day, I had a TurboTap, and me and 4 other friends played the game at the same time. 5 freaking players playing at the same time, going through the dungeons, shooting at the monsters, it was absolutely awesome. I just wish I could repeat that experience now. The thing is, those 4 friends are now scattered across the country, and if there was online play, and a headset, we could relive those memories.

It really sucks that Microsoft is the only one doing things right when it comes to this, because I'm not really interested in the retro fare they have lined up. Sony supposedly has Neo-Geo and might have some other announcements, and Nintendo has their back catalog as well as some love from the Genesis and TurboGrafx. Microsoft keeps bringing out old Arcade games, and that's cool, but my real love is with the classic console games. I can't begin to explain how awesome it would be to play games like Super Mario Kart for the SNES online, with leaderboards and everything that comes with it.

Somebody mentioned that if they are going to re-work the code, they might as well make a whole new game, but I'm not interested in a whole new game. I'm just interested in doing exactly what I did back in the day, except, I'm not a little kid anymore, and I don't have Johnny living across the street, and I can't go to his house and ask his mommy if he can come over to my house and play Wii. I'm grown up now, and my good buddies are scattered around the US, and I see them on XBLA sometimes, but all of us wish we could really get together and play the true classic console games.

There's a few key differences here though. You use F-Zero as a suggestion, but F-zero didn't have multiplayer back in the day in any form. Tricking a game like that would also create noticeable lag, which gets everyone bitching about that.

The thing is playing online with people is never the same as playing right there with them. I've done it both ways, and the latter is always much, much more fun. It wouldn't be at all like back in the day. Personally I'd rather see new Mario platformers than just play an online version of mario 3.

I don't remember where exactly, but I could have sworn a recent interview about the VC said that they were looking into adding stuff to games but that it wouldn't be any of the clump coming up. And in Japan at least, Pokemon battle revolution has online battling(DS pokemon games aren't out here yet, so neither is this). I also heard about Elebits having online functionality, and that comes out this month.

[Trumpman]

Well, the virtual console seems like it would be worth it to me, because I have never even seen a GameCrazy. I live in Northern NJ, and the closest one is in Jersey City. Also, when you factor in buying them on eBay plus shipping, it's not a bad deal.

I guess I'm not as into the hunt aspect, because there aren't any thrifts or cheap stores around with classic games, but for me, it's either VC or eBay, and VC is cheaper.

[8-bitNesMan]

I gotta go with Anthony on this one. I own every Nintendo system besides the Virtual Boy, and I think it's high time they got their collective head out of their ass and appreciated the hardcore geeks like us that have lined their coffers for so many years. I agree that games like F-Zero, which never had multiplayer to begin with, might be cost prohibitive to do online multiplayer now. But come on and give us what we've all been waiting on. Something more than just a readily available ROM at a highway robbery price. I've always been a huge Nintendo fan, but I also believe that if you're going to do something you should do it right. My two cents...

[jajaja]

Yep, the prices are crazy. If you buy the real game you also get something physical + you can sell/trade it later on and get some money back (or even more). When you download a game through VC you only get the ROM, thats it, a piece of data. You cant even sell or trade it when you get sick of it.

It shouldnt be a problem making online multiplayer with it. I remember years ago when i played SNES games over the internet with my cuzin. Its only the emulator that needs the support, the ROM stays unchanged :)

[TurboGenesis]

This is my stance. F-Zero was never multiplayer so nothing to change nothing to include. Since I already own the cart for SNES I have no need to "buy" this game on the VC. However I do want multiplayer online classic games. My best example is Contra. Another game I physically own for NES and have no need to buy it BUT if it were to have wi fi online multiplayer, well I'd pay $10 for it. Dungeon Explorer is to be coming soon to VC but I have this game so therefore no buy, but yeah, if online 5 player was capable I'd dl this game.

The whole leaderboard and achievement thing is cool but I can live without it. I'm not going to dl Contra because I want to 1cc it in 12 minutes to get 50 points, I want to play friends when they can't be over or friends that live 1500 miles away.

[tholly]

i highly agree with the achievements arguement....i have no interest in rebuying zelda (which i have played / beaten countless times) ... i also have zelda for many different systems ( NES, compiliation discs on GameCube, etc.) ....

so, with no new motivation (read: achievements) i have no need to pay for something virtual that i already own in physical form....

you Anthony1 are right, the Wii's Virtual Console is highly lacking....



what they need to do is release some japanese games with english language support, release previously unreleased games, or release some unique games...

[WiseSalesman]

Nintendo has no clue how to go about online gaming. The ridiculous "friend code" system should be proof of that. Even more hilarious: if you post on the Nintendo forums (I don't) you aren't allowed to trade any personal information like name, city of origin, e-mail. AIM handle or .... dun dun dun .... DS of Wii friend codes! They're so worried about "protecting" their customers that they're going to suck all the fun out of their games to do it.

But, I digress. I agree that the Virtual Console is priced way, way too fucking high. I also agree that game with multiplayer really ought to have been upgraded to online multiplayer, or at least given online leadeboards.

That being said, I've purchased Bomberman '93 and Ristar so far, and will probably purchase more games that I don't own in the future. $14 was a high price to pay, but not as high as the cost of a TG-16, a game, and a cart for the genesis.

[Ponyone]

when I get my wii, the VC will be used for N64 only since that is the shittiest of all emulated.

I wonder if you can trade games with other wii owners? If so that would be cool. virtual collection trading.

Hate a game? Post it on a message board and trade it for a game you want.

[MrRoboto19XX]

While all the previous points are valid, and I agree with a lot of them, we cant forget that were less than a month into Nintendo's first foray into online console gaming, not to mention the online buying aspect.

I say we give em some time, but they had better get it right eventually.

[geneshifter]

At least we have a suspend on the games like the PC emulators.

I hate having to sit and play an entire game of Sonic or SMB3 for 3 hours to complete it like when I was a kid. No time for that nonsense now.

[TurboGenesis]

At least you have a suspend on the games like the PC emulators.

I hate having to sit and play an entire game of Sonic or SMB3 for 3 hours to complete it like when I was a kid. No time for that nonsense now.

actually when you exit out of a game it does like a save state. I exited out of bomberman '93 via the home button and when I went back into it later it was right where I left it - paused on level 3-6.

[SkiDragon]

I just realized that they should definitely offer one free game to all Wii owners. Something like Super Mario Bros. just to give people a taste. But I pretty much agree with most people. It is pointless for a collector to pay for a ROM image of a game, when the actual cartridge can be had for the same price or less. I think I am going to make a goal to myself to buy all of the virtual console games in their original format. I am already more than halfway done before I even started.

[77punk]

i love Virtual boy, they need to put one out that doesnt fry your eyes red! I love the wario land and tetris on it.

[jajaja]

I wonder if you can trade games with other wii owners? If so that would be cool. virtual collection trading.

Hate a game? Post it on a message board and trade it for a game you want.

You cant. Atleast not yet, but i seriously doubt Nintendo will make it like this because they want people to buy the ROM theirself so they can make more money. All VC games are locked to the Wii its being downloaded to. Now, this might be cracked some day so it might be possible if Nintendo doesnt do anything.

[All Things Sega]

That could be a nice start. Trading virtual games for other virtual games but since this is Nintendo, it will get stopped ASAP LOL Not to be a killjoy, but isn't it easier to download the roms from the internet since their cheaper (free) and play on a computer? The new HDTV's come with the connection where you can connect computers to the big screen tvs. My neighbor has his laptop connected to the tv and a USB joystick to play MAME and console games. Isn't this a better alternative for those who don't want to pay the high ebay fees or just can't locate the games in the wild?

[Leo_A]

"You would think for games that originally had the option for two player simultaneous play, they could trick the emulator into thinking that "player 2" was sitting in your living room, rather than being across the country or the world."

"It shouldnt be a problem making online multiplayer with it. I remember years ago when i played SNES games over the internet with my cuzin. Its only the emulator that needs the support, the ROM stays unchanged "

"You WOULDNT need to rewrite the games to support multiplayer. For instance, SEVERAL genesis emulators support multiplayer over the internet via TCP IP. Those games, obviously, werent reprogrammed in any way."

You guys need to understand how emulators do it. The host is basically the person running the Super Nintendo, and if the second person lives on the other side of the country, he basically has 3000 mile controller and AV cables with the lag that comes from playing games online. Nintendo could do it with ease, but it would be a poor solution that wouldn't be enjoyable in most circumstances unless you wanted to play something like Super Nintendo Monopoly. Only way to do it properly is the rewrite the game, and you guys expect Nintendo to do that with games like F-Zero with 2-3 releases a week at less than $10 a game? Look how long and the prices it took to port classic NES and SNES games to systems such as the GBA and DS, its not that easy.

lol

[jajaja]

He basically has 3000 mile controller and AV cables with the lag that comes from playing games online. Nintendo could do it with ease, but it would be a poor solution that wouldn't be enjoyable in most circumstances unless you wanted to play something like Super Nintendo Monopoly. Only way to do it properly is the rewrite the game, and you guys expect Nintendo to do that with games like F-Zero with 2-3 releases a week at less than $10 a game? Look how long and the prices it took to port classic NES and SNES games to systems such as the GBA and DS, its not that easy.

lol

I know what your saying, but its not quite the same. A 3000 mile controller (imagine it lol :)) will only have 1 hop from the machine and directly to the controller. The signals would probly fade out so you would have to add alot of enhancer on the cord. The internet uses nodes etc. Whatever you do on the internet you will always have more than 1 hop (like consoles have). Only time you have 1 hop is when you ping your gateway. If the routing is good it shouldnt be any problem playing a SNES game with a friend that lives across the world. Of course, if you have 56k or slow boardband you might experience heavy lag even if routing is good.

[Ponyone]

According to a nintendo representative, online multiplayer was supposed to be in effect for the VC

"The future is now! Soon every American home will integrate their television, phone and computer. You'll be able to visit the Louvre on one channel, or watch female wrestling on another. You can do your shopping at home, or play Mortal Kombat with a friend from Vietnam. There's no end to the possibilities!"

Mr. C. Douglas, Nintendo of America

[Garry Silljo]

Question,

Since Virtual Console games are tied to the system they are downloaded to, if I bought a Wii and like 20 VC games, then I decide to trade it in to GameStop/EB ... anywhere, would I get more in trade for it than one that was empty? Seems like I should. Think of how unfair it would be if me and a friend both pay the same price for a used Wii and I get no VC games and he gets 40! Unless the retailer goes in and deletes them all to be fair. Are there any GS/EB employees who can tell us if there is a policy on this?

[8-bitNesMan]

Since when do retailers, ESPECIALLY EB/Gamestop, care about being fair?

[JJNova]

Question,

Since Virtual Console games are tied to the system they are downloaded to, if I bought a Wii and like 20 VC games, then I decide to trade it in to GameStop/EB ... anywhere, would I get more in trade for it than one that was empty? Seems like I should. Think of how unfair it would be if me and a friend both pay the same price for a used Wii and I get no VC games and he gets 40! Unless the retailer goes in and deletes them all to be fair. Are there any GS/EB employees who can tell us if there is a policy on this?

When you purchase a Wii (Which I assume you will) there is paperwork, a user agreement you have to virtually sign, and a pop up that informs you that before re-selling your system, you should delete all of the information that is on the device. This is done by going into the menu, and hitting one button. Bloop! Everythings gone. Virtual console Games, Personal information, Friends you added, and pretty much everything else. So as a retailer, I would assume I am getting an empty Wii.

To be on topic, the wife and I play a lot of Columns on the Virtual Console. It's great. I feel that if not having online play is really hindering your Virtual Console experience, you should invest some time in acquiring friends that might visit once in a while and play a game with you.

[Melf]

To be on topic, the wife and I play a lot of Columns on the Virtual Console. It's great. I feel that if not having online play is really hindering your Virtual Console experience, you should invest some time in acquiring friends that might visit once in a while and play a game with you.

I don't think people are going to go searching for new friends in person just so they have someone to play Gunstar Heroes with. Considering that the only gaming console available today (as well as PC) that doesn't offer some kind of online play is the Wii, I'd say the burden is on Nintendo. Telling me to "get some friends" doesn't justify that it dropped the ball with online play big time....again.

[ubersaurus]

I don't think people are going to go searching for new friends in person just so they have someone to play Gunstar Heroes with. Considering that the only gaming console available today (as well as PC) that doesn't offer some kind of online play is the Wii, I'd say the burden is on Nintendo. Telling me to "get some friends" doesn't justify that it dropped the ball with online play big time....again.

Oh cry about it and wait a few months.

[PapaStu]

I don't think people are going to go searching for new friends in person just so they have someone to play Gunstar Heroes with. Considering that the only gaming console available today (as well as PC) that doesn't offer some kind of online play is the Wii, I'd say the burden is on Nintendo. Telling me to "get some friends" doesn't justify that it dropped the ball with online play big time....again.

Why has Nintendo dropped the ball by not allowing a game that didn't have online play before to have it now? Everyone keeps forgetting that to get all those Japanese RPG's that would need lots of translation time, or any of these games actually functioning online 2-player thing an almost complete remaking of the game! XBL games are being made with that connectivity in mind, these games when made (sometimes in upwards of 20 years ago) they wern't even pondering that kinda play. These are quick turnaround games, not totally new gaming experiences. There won't be anything really labor intensive ever released outside of its region on the Wii-store.

Aparently you can't already have friends either? Since its a new system you've got to go and make new friends before they can play it?

[Melf]

Oh cry about it and wait a few months.

I'll believe it when I see it. ;)


Why has Nintendo dropped the ball by not allowing a game that didn't have online play before to have it now? Everyone keeps forgetting that to get all those Japanese RPG's that would need lots of translation time, or any of these games actually functioning online 2-player thing an almost complete remaking of the game! XBL games are being made with that connectivity in mind, these games when made (sometimes in upwards of 20 years ago) they wern't even pondering that kinda play. These are quick turnaround games, not totally new gaming experiences. There won't be anything really labor intensive ever released outside of its region on the Wii-store.

You just proved my point. MS it taking games older than anything offered on the VC so far and redoing the graphics and sound, as well as adding online play (some are better than others. Time Pilot = WTF?). Nintendo is just offering you the same game with zero enhancements. That may be fine for those who are content with just playing the games, but in light of the competition and how popular the new, upgraded versions are, it makes little sense. VC could be doing so much more with all these games, and you can't tell me that adding online play to a game like Columns would take a lot of time and cost a shitload of money.

The fact that these are "quick turnaround games" is the whole problem. With what MS is offering and what Sony has promised (again, I'll believe that when I see it), it doesn't seem like a lot of bang for your buck.


Aparently you can't already have friends either? Since its a new system you've got to go and make new friends before they can play it?

If you have a bunch of people with whom to play the Wii (which is where it really shines), then you probably don't care about online play. This is the same debate we had with the GC/GBA connectivity. Not everyone can whip up four people at any given time to play. Being able to just hop online and find a game to play whenever I want is very convenient.

[ubersaurus]

I'll believe it when I see it. ;)



You just proved my point. MS it taking games older than anything offered on the VC so far and redoing the graphics and sound, as well as adding online play (some are better than others. Time Pilot = WTF?). Nintendo is just offering you the same game with zero enhancements. That may be fine for those who are content with just playing the games, but in light of the competition and how popular the new, upgraded versions are, it makes little sense. VC could be doing so much more with all these games, and you can't tell me that adding online play to a game like Columns would take a lot of time and cost a shitload of money.

The fact that these are "quick turnaround games" is the whole problem. With what MS is offering and what Sony has promised (again, I'll believe that when I see it), it doesn't seem like a lot of bang for your buck.



If you have a bunch of people with whom to play the Wii (which is where it really shines), then you probably don't care about online play. This is the same debate we had with the GC/GBA connectivity. Not everyone can whip up four people at any given time to play. Being able to just hop online and find a game to play whenever I want is very convenient.


You just proved MY point. Konami and those other companies on XBL are remaking these games from the ground up with online stuff in mind, and then overcharging for them in comparison to what they would have gone for on a compilation disc. Whereas these VC games are just the original game code running on an emulator. I fail to see the problem here. If you honestly think that a game as expansive as Super Mario 64 or Ristar isn't worth more money than a quickie little game like Geometry Wars, I'm very, very confused as to your sense of worth.

Online wii games? Let me run down the list of some of the ones that have already been announced. Pokemon Battle Revolution, Elebits, Battalion Wars 2, Smash Bros Brawl, hell, I've even heard talk about Metroid Prime 3, Animal Crossing, and several other games that have slipped my mind at the moment. Seems like a pretty good start for online play to me.

And I'll tell you, given some of the assholes I've played online in Halo 2 and street fighter, online play gets shit on by having people over, even if it takes more effort to set up.

[Anthony1]

I think the bottom line here is that VC doesn't have any online support right now, and online support would be a good thing. Check that....Online support woud be an outstanding thing. Sure, we should already have it, it should have been a given, but let's move on and try to figure out a way to complain about this is a way that will get Nintendo's attention, and maybe Nintendo will realize that people actually want this, and they will start including online support for these games, or at least in some of them.

To be honest, the thing that suprises me most about this, is the lack of a general uproar about it around the web. 1up had a story a week or so ago, about the "Top 10 Complaints about the Nintendo Wii". In this story, there was some complaining about various online issues regarding the Wii, but they never specificially mentioned the lack on online play with the virtual console games. It boggles my mind that this wouldn't me specifically mentioned in a top 10 complaints about the Wii article. To me, it should be complaint No.1. Here is a link to the article:

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3155556


It's this general lack of it being a major complaint all around the web that concerns me. People should be shouting to the high heavens about this, or Nintendo is going to continue along it's current path and not make any changes. I've already called the 1-800 number and complained about it, but I'm not sure if that's an effective way to go about it. I really want to see online play for VC games, and I want to see it sooner rather than later. I want this situation corrected before they release games like Super Mario Kart for SNES and Zombies Ate My Neighbors for SNES. Sure, if Nintendo ever does start to provide online support to these VC games, it's possible they could patch games that were released before hand, but I just don't think that would be Nintendo's style. I think all the games that are released before they finally get with the program are going to be stuck as offline games.

Has anybody seen an online petition for this anywhere? Or does anybody have any other suggestions on how best to get Nintendo's attention about this before it's too late?

[l_lamb]

The PSone downloads to the PSP suffer even more than the Nintendo VC games. There's no support for multiplayer at all; no ad-hoc wireless or even USB-USB. It's in the description of each PSone game in the Playstation Store. Four of the 5 games for download are one-player anyway, but the fifth game is Tekken 2 (why not Tekken 3?) which is a lot less playable without two player support.

[jajaja]

The PSone downloads to the PSP suffer even more than the Nintendo VC games. There's no support for multiplayer at all; no ad-hoc wireless or even USB-USB. It's in the description of each PSone game in the Playstation Store. Four of the 5 games for download are one-player anyway, but the fifth game is Tekken 2 (why not Tekken 3?) which is a lot less playable without two player support.

Meh, thats only 1 game, nothing worth complaining about. If it was only one game on VC i wouldnt really care, but when theres alot it sux.

[VG_Maniac]

I'm really not interested in downloading any games (cause like many people here, I already own most of the ones that are even worth downloading). However, I might download some TG-16 games since I never owned one of those and I probably never will. I just hope they eventually have PC Engine Dracula X for download...but they probably won't cause it's import.

[Wolfrider31]

First, I just want to point out that there is nothing preventing Nintendo from implementing online functionality in the future. In fact, I think it's a given. If you read the manual for the VC service, they do mention that enchanced content will be forth coming, and if you have bought a ROM that later becomes enhanced you can download the new ROM for free.

I do agree though, that the prices for the VC games are absurdly high. 8 dollars for some 16 bit games is insane, and Nintendo really needs to get on the ball with pricing. I thought it was absurd that they were charging 6 bucks for Sonic when I could buy Sonic Mega Collection for the GC in the bargain bin for 15. The math just doesn't add up. Nintendo is really going to HAVE TO implement enhanced content and do something really different with their service. Otherwise people are just going to break the Wii and start running emulators on it.

Then again, maybe Nintendo gets that. On top of the probable enhanced content there are rumors of independant developers being wooed for online only content, and another that suggests the English version of Mother 3 is going to be distributed online.

Give it a chance. If summer rolls around and we haven't seen any real improvement, I'll start passing out the torches and pitchforks.

[TurboGenesis]

This is all I want to see in terms of online VC gaming (and I will use Contra as example again) - in games that were originally 2 player simultaneous play, it would be nice to have these games play online. My case is that I grew up with a very good friend playing NES and now he has moved to Florida, we both bought a Wii on launch and talked about how it would be nice to relive the days of old with a game of Contra or Jackal. Cant very well just call him over to play a quick 30 minute game now. With the opportunity to download these games in a legal fashion (for a nominal fee of course) the ability to play such games would be wonderful. For other friends that are close, when they visit, I just pop in the NES cart and go about simultaneous play in the traditional fashion.

Single player games can stay single player games. Those games have appeal to folks whom never played or experienced them or those who don't have them and like to revisit them again.

I have to pass on a vast majority of VC games right now as I already physically own them and have no reason to re-purchase a game when those moneys could go toward a Wii game. Should Contra come to Virtual Console I will pass, but if it will offer me the chance to play with my friend 1000 miles away, I'm sold.

[Daniel Thomas]

There's no reason why online multiplayer couldn't be added to VC games. You couldn't change games like F-Zero that were single-player, but you could certainly add multiplayer for something like Contra or Bomberman or Goldeneye or Mario Kart. The emus have been doing that for years.

There's no real incentive for classic gamers or anyone with emus on their PC to invest in the VC. At least, not yet. It all depends upon what Nintendo really wants to achieve with this service. Do they just want to repackage the old Mario and Zelda games yet again (sigh) and make a couple quick bucks, or do they really want to run with the idea?

If they took VC to its fullest potential, they could revolutionize gaming by overcoming the technology barrier that renders everything obsolete every five years. Then again, a lot of business is dependent upon that model. It's how they can justify selling the same product over and over again. Who could get away with copycat franchise sequels when you could just boot up the older versions? Perhaps this could provide an incentive to innovate - actually come up with some new ideas to entice consumers. The new games would have to compete with the old.

At least, that's the theory. I'm insistent that online multiplayer is essential to VC. Nintendo has left the door open, so let's hope they do the right thing when their online service (finally) rolls out next year.

[Melf]

You just proved MY point. Konami and those other companies on XBL are remaking these games from the ground up with online stuff in mind, and then overcharging for them in comparison to what they would have gone for on a compilation disc.

Wrong. They're not overcharging for them because the games aren't the same as the ones released on compilations. Enhanced graphics and sound, achievements, leaderboards, and above all, online play are all part of what you're paying for.

Funny that you'd want to compare to compilations though, considering that the Sega Genesis Collection offers a better selection of games, with a ton of extras, than the VC has right now. Is that the VC giving you more for your money?


Whereas these VC games are just the original game code running on an emulator. I fail to see the problem here. If you honestly think that a game as expansive as Super Mario 64 or Ristar isn't worth more money than a quickie little game like Geometry Wars, I'm very, very confused as to your sense of worth.

SM64 has been released on the DS and can be had used for little more than it's being sold on the VC, and I get to take it anywhere. As for my sense of worth, I paid $5 for Geometry Wars Evolved, an original game that has achievements and leaderboards and can't be had anywhere else, vs $8 for Ristar and $10 for SM64, both of which have been released elsewhere in the last year alone.


Online wii games? Let me run down the list of some of the ones that have already been announced. Pokemon Battle Revolution, Elebits, Battalion Wars 2, Smash Bros Brawl, hell, I've even heard talk about Metroid Prime 3, Animal Crossing, and several other games that have slipped my mind at the moment. Seems like a pretty good start for online play to me.

We're talking about the VC, no? You're proving my point even more here then. If Nintendo can add online play to a balls-out brawler like Smash Bros. Brawl, then there's no excuse for decades-old ROMS not having it.


And I'll tell you, given some of the assholes I've played online in Halo 2 and street fighter, online play gets shit on by having people over, even if it takes more effort to set up.

You do know you can filter the assholes out, right? That's much easier than kicking out a rowdy friend from your house. :p

[NintenDk]

Of course, they would have had to rework the code, but how freaking hard would it have been? I personally don't think it would have been all that complicated

HAHHAHAHAHAack!
It would have been extremely compicated, programming in assembly is madness enough but then having new programmers going back and diving into someone elses old work without knowing what tools were used to make it or where the people who made it are today (never mind the fact that no records or documents are kept for the purposes required about the games coding and 99 percent of the tools and programs used to make them in the first place don't even exist anymore) All that aside that Miyamoto doesn't do codework anylonger sure there are some of the original programmers around left at nintendo so maybe on a few certain titles but that is unrealistic. It would take more than some subtle rtweaking for the most part as has been/being said.

[Gamereviewgod]

You just proved MY point. Konami and those other companies on XBL are remaking these games from the ground up with online stuff in mind, and then overcharging for them in comparison to what they would have gone for on a compilation disc. Whereas these VC games are just the original game code running on an emulator. I fail to see the problem here. If you honestly think that a game as expansive as Super Mario 64 or Ristar isn't worth more money than a quickie little game like Geometry Wars, I'm very, very confused as to your sense of worth.

So an entirely new game built from the ground up isn't a good deal but paying $5 for NES Donkey Kong or $8 for Ristar with no enhancements is????

Compilations also don't generally feature online play. In fact, aside from the Street Fighter one, none have to date. Graphical updates are rare as well.

So, the arcade version of Time Pilot which has rarely found a home on any game console with updated graphics, leaderboards, and online play in different modes isn't a deal for $5? Yet, Mario 64 for $10 with no enhancements at all, likek the DS version with the fun mini-games, is?

THAT doesn't make sense man.

[l_lamb]

Meh, thats only 1 game, nothing worth complaining about. If it was only one game on VC i wouldnt really care, but when theres alot it sux.

There will be more. I don't understand why they didn't use ad-hoc to emulate the second controller port. Sony has really not impressed this time around; everything seems to be a last-minute "we have to steal that idea" but without the time to make it good. At least Nintendo's VC games maintain the functions of the initial release.

[badinsults]

I'm sure at some point they will create some sort of X-band style system. Transmitting button presses would likely be the only way to get these old games that were never designed for online play to be made online.

But come on, complaining that F-zero doesn't have online multiplayer? It never had multiplayer to begin with. Now you are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[ubersaurus]

Wrong. They're not overcharging for them because the games aren't the same as the ones released on compilations. Enhanced graphics and sound, achievements, leaderboards, and above all, online play are all part of what you're paying for.


I can play the konami collection for the gba that has 5 games, including scramble and time pilot(which are on XBL for 5 bucks apiece) for about 20 bucks brand new. They have enhanced features, as well. Not online play, granted, but it's still a good deal. There's a few compilations, besides, that featured online leaderboards for scores. Achievements, enhanced graphics, and the other bits are just there to entice people to buy something that they otherwise wouldn't care about, because it's a 25 year old arcade game meant to be played in shorter spurts than the 5 bucks would be worth. Games like Bonk, Sonic, Ristar, or Zelda do take decidedly more time, and have decidedly more to do in them than say, Scramble. Both Zelda and Scramble are 5 bucks. You're telling me that 5 bucks for Zelda, a game with an expansive map and dungeons and 2 quests, is worth less than some ancient shooter just because one features online scoreboards?




Funny that you'd want to compare to compilations though, considering that the Sega Genesis Collection offers a better selection of games, with a ton of extras, than the VC has right now. Is that the VC giving you more for your money?


No, it's called I didn't buy any of the genesis games in compilation or on virtual console because I already have a genesis and those games. If they released Phantasy Star 4 or something, I'd grab the VC one because it's cheaper than paying out for the actual cart. Same with other high priced old games like Dragon Warrior 3 or 4, or Bonk 3.



SM64 has been released on the DS and can be had used for little more than it's being sold on the VC, and I get to take it anywhere. As for my sense of worth, I paid $5 for Geometry Wars Evolved, an original game that has achievements and leaderboards and can't be had anywhere else, vs $8 for Ristar and $10 for SM64, both of which have been released elsewhere in the last year alone.


Are you honestly telling me that the hours upon hours long game of Mario 64 is inferior to a game that most people can't even survive in for 4 minutes? And I also recall most people bitching about Mario 64's DS port for the crappy controls. True, the only change to the VC one is that they prettied up the graphics, but not everyone is a game collector. Not everyone is going out of their way to buy a 64 so they can play mario 64. That's the audience the VC appeals to. I'm sorry you're not the target market here, but thems the breaks.



We're talking about the VC, no? You're proving my point even more here then. If Nintendo can add online play to a balls-out brawler like Smash Bros. Brawl, then there's no excuse for decades-old ROMS not having it.

That doesn't even make sense. You're telling me a game built from the ground up to include online play shouldn't have it over a 20 year old game written in assembly on a dead console that the majority of programmers nowadays don't know how to run, or make sense of the code without notes? Do YOU dick around in assembly for fun? The games I listed are being built from the ground up with online in mind. There's a reason Halo 1 isn't tricked into being online on the 360's emulator-it wasn't written that way, the profit margin isn't big enough to make it worth it(even with such a popular game), and companies would prefer to commit efforts to newer games. Xbox live arcade games are, once again, rewritten from the ground up with online co-op, or vs, or enhancements for the machine. They aren't running special emulators to make these things happen. If nintendo was to do the same thing, they'd be rewriting every single game they put out on virtual console to make it prettier, and online, and that's just not feasible.[/quote]



You do know you can filter the assholes out, right? That's much easier than kicking out a rowdy friend from your house. :p

You can't filter the assholes out. If I'm playing a fighting game and the other dude drops to keep from losing, there's nothing I can really do. If i'm playing halo and get stuck on a team with guys who are just standing around letting the other team kill them, or keep suiciding, there's nothing I can do. I'm still stuck with these assholes. Comparatively I can just kick the asshole friend in the shins and be done with it if we're just in the same house.

[Gamereviewgod]

You can't filter the assholes out. If I'm playing a fighting game and the other dude drops to keep from losing, there's nothing I can really do. If i'm playing halo and get stuck on a team with guys who are just standing around letting the other team kill them, or keep suiciding, there's nothing I can do. I'm still stuck with these assholes. Comparatively I can just kick the asshole friend in the shins and be done with it if we're just in the same house.

Just play with people on your friends list. That's all you have to do. That, or always host and kick the idiots from the lobby.

[Daniel Thomas]

Okay, I finished writing reviews on all of the current VC releases in the States. It took a few entries, but I finally did it. I'm also writing posts on each week's releases, so if you need someone to help push you in the right direction, come pay me a visit and let me know what you think.

I'm always harping for online multiplayer, but I think what I want to see right now, more than anything else, is more games, and more good games. I can't believe Nintendo would dump so many lousy games on us. You just know they're going to sit on their best games, and dribble them out over the course of years.

Anyway, don't forget the games blog - just click on my banner below.

[scorch56]

Seeing as how I won't be getting ANY current gen consoles for a year or two.. and you guys obviously have (lucky bastoids).. I've only been wondering about one thing. So I'm assuming that for your purchase price you don't get ANY kind of "instructions" for the games? Not even some simple text file like rental stores gave out? Sure most of the games are simple.. but N64 RPGs and such.. If that's the case.. I'd just as soon spend $10 and buy a loose cart somewhere (which I never do.. but at least you'd "physically" HAVE the game) or even better yet.. load up a ROM for free. Call me cheap.

I figured Nintendo would figure some way to include directions with your purchase.. NAH!.. not really.

[WiseSalesman]

Off-topic to ubersaurus who listed several online Wii games a page back:

Only one of those (Batallion Wars 2) has been confirmed as an online US release, and, honestly, if it's anything like the first Batallion Wars, they can keep it.

SSBB's director has said online multiplay is "a possibility" (I'm an SSB die-hard purist and would love this)

Reggie has said that Pokemon Battle Revolution or whatever might not even make it here.

Elebits has the ability to download user-created content. While interesting and very cool, it is not even close to being the same thing as online multiplay. The four-player multi mode is still local only.

There is certainly no confirmed online multiplay for Metroid Prime 3.

The Wii Animal Crossing doesn't have a release date, or even a proper TITLE yet. I don't really think it's relevant.

Believe me, I am the farthest thing from a Nintendo hater. For christ's sake, I own a DS Lite and and original DS redundantly, I own every Nintendo console released, and I recently stood in the freezing rain for eight hours for my Wii. But can we please be honest here, Nintendo keeps fucking up, especially in the area of online play, and I for one would really like to see them stop. I bought a Wii because I wanted Zelda, and I knew I'd want SSBB if it ever comes out, but I'm watching my friends play Gear of War etc. online and there isn't a single Wii game featuring online play due for release in the next six months. I love Nintendo, but they've completely ignored online gaming for a long time now and, frankly, it's unforgivable. They certainly alluded that the VC would feature online play prior to the system's release, and it's quite the oversight to find it completely non-existant.



I figured Nintendo would figure some way to include directions with your purchase.. NAH!.. not really.

Actually, you get an online manual worked up specifically for the VC release. They're really well put together, actually.

[WiseSalesman]

I'm always harping for online multiplayer, but I think what I want to see right now, more than anything else, is more games, and more good games. I can't believe Nintendo would dump so many lousy games on us. You just know they're going to sit on their best games, and dribble them out over the course of years.

Actually, that's exactly what they're doing, and they've even had the gall to admit it. In a recent MTV interview, Reggie Fils-Amies warned gamers not to hold their breath for blockbuster VC classics. He said that he was planning to hold onto them for "dry months" to boost sales numbers. Seriously, the man said this in a public interview. You have to admire his moxie.

[Melf]

I can play the konami collection for the gba that has 5 games, including scramble and time pilot(which are on XBL for 5 bucks apiece) for about 20 bucks brand new. They have enhanced features, as well. Not online play, granted, but it's still a good deal. There's a few compilations, besides, that featured online leaderboards for scores. Achievements, enhanced graphics, and the other bits are just there to entice people to buy something that they otherwise wouldn't care about, because it's a 25 year old arcade game meant to be played in shorter spurts than the 5 bucks would be worth. Games like Bonk, Sonic, Ristar, or Zelda do take decidedly more time, and have decidedly more to do in them than say, Scramble. Both Zelda and Scramble are 5 bucks. You're telling me that 5 bucks for Zelda, a game with an expansive map and dungeons and 2 quests, is worth less than some ancient shooter just because one features online scoreboards?

Why do you only mention Scramble? And why do you completely neglect all the original games made for XBLA? It takes a lot longer to play through Marble Blast Ultra or Robo Blitz than it does Sonic or Bonk, so that comparison is irrelevant. I could compare all the XBLA games to VC's Columns then.


No, it's called I didn't buy any of the genesis games in compilation or on virtual console because I already have a genesis and those games. If they released Phantasy Star 4 or something, I'd grab the VC one because it's cheaper than paying out for the actual cart. Same with other high priced old games like Dragon Warrior 3 or 4, or Bonk 3.

This is where the VC will shine. If it offers games like Magical Chase or Bonk 3, which are expensive as hell and hard to find, then the service will be doing something that merits using. As it is right now, you're being overcharged for plain ROMs. I'm not necessarily advocating emulation, but you can't ignore reality. Many people have those games on their PCs or modded Xboxs already, and for free.


Are you honestly telling me that the hours upon hours long game of Mario 64 is inferior to a game that most people can't even survive in for 4 minutes? And I also recall most people bitching about Mario 64's DS port for the crappy controls. True, the only change to the VC one is that they prettied up the graphics, but not everyone is a game collector. Not everyone is going out of their way to buy a 64 so they can play mario 64. That's the audience the VC appeals to. I'm sorry you're not the target market here, but thems the breaks.

The people you know who play Geometry Wars must really suck. :p

Again, game length is irrelevant, as I can just ask you "do you think people are really going to pay $8 for Columns?".

I'm not the only one who feels this way either, and Nintendo's retarded attitude towards all things online is a big factor as to why it's where it is. The company is moving away from dedicated gamers and is attempting to attract the casual one. I'm not that market, so I won't be getting a Wii any time soon, and I'm not alone.


That doesn't even make sense. You're telling me a game built from the ground up to include online play shouldn't have it over a 20 year old game written in assembly on a dead console that the majority of programmers nowadays don't know how to run, or make sense of the code without notes? Do YOU dick around in assembly for fun? The games I listed are being built from the ground up with online in mind.

I don't, but considering that average people outside the industry have added online play to MAME and the fact that Digital Eclipse is making a FORTUNE enhancing old games for XBLA means that it can be done. Most the consoles on the VC have already been emulated, so it's not like they're running around in the dark without a clue. Don't try and justify Nintendo's laziness here. This is the same company that has charged you how many times for Mario Bros.? Hell, a good portion of its NES VC games were even released on the eReader. This is just a cash run service that does nothing the PC you're typing on can't already do for free.


There's a reason Halo 1 isn't tricked into being online on the 360's emulator-it wasn't written that way, the profit margin isn't big enough to make it worth it(even with such a popular game), and companies would prefer to commit efforts to newer games.

How do you equate Halo and Gunstar Heroes as comparitive in terms of coding?


Xbox live arcade games are, once again, rewritten from the ground up with online co-op, or vs, or enhancements for the machine. They aren't running special emulators to make these things happen. If nintendo was to do the same thing, they'd be rewriting every single game they put out on virtual console to make it prettier, and online, and that's just not feasible.

Why isn't it feasible? The whole "it's too hard and there are no tools!" argument is bullshit, since the games are already being emulated ON THE VC. They already have the games, it's just laziness that's keeping them from doing it. It's the same attitude they've always had. Remember, this is the same company that said only a year ago that "gamers do not want online play."


You can't filter the assholes out. If I'm playing a fighting game and the other dude drops to keep from losing, there's nothing I can really do.

Host the game.


If i'm playing halo and get stuck on a team with guys who are just standing around letting the other team kill them, or keep suiciding, there's nothing I can do. I'm still stuck with these assholes. Comparatively I can just kick the asshole friend in the shins and be done with it if we're just in the same house.

You do know that this is what the friends list is for, right? Mine is over 50 people long and I never have a problem finding a good group to play. I've been on XBL since it went up and have had only a handful of the retard experiences you describe, and that was at the beginning. Once you get some friends on your list, this no longer is an issue.

Also, can you have 16 friends over your house to play a game at one time? I know of no console game that does this as of yet.

[jajaja]

There will be more. I don't understand why they didn't use ad-hoc to emulate the second controller port. Sony has really not impressed this time around; everything seems to be a last-minute "we have to steal that idea" but without the time to make it good. At least Nintendo's VC games maintain the functions of the initial release.

Will probly be fixed in a future firmware upgrade. You can always play Dark Ressurection for now ;) If you want to call it stealing that 3 companies have support for downloading old games, Nintendo must also be called for stealers since MS was first out of the 3 (MS, Sony, Nintendo). And who knows, maybe Sega and TG-16 etc. went out with this offer to both Sony and Nintendo and both companies said yes to it. Getting pretty tired of the "stealers!" comments :( Why not focus on whats avalible instead? IMO thats whats really matters. Im glad all 3 consoles have support for downloading old games.

[Nature Boy]

I think the bottom line here is that VC doesn't have any online support right now, and online support would be a good thing.

It sure would be, but would it actually stimulate sales of those games enough to justify the extra costs? Probably never.

It's the same reason that most of the retro compilations available today come with little to nothing in the way of extras like that. They're a quick cash-in on intellectual property with little to know development costs. If people stop buying 'em that way maybe you'll see a change. But again, I doubt it.

[ubersaurus]

Why do you only mention Scramble? And why do you completely neglect all the original games made for XBLA? It takes a lot longer to play through Marble Blast Ultra or Robo Blitz than it does Sonic or Bonk, so that comparison is irrelevant. I could compare all the XBLA games to VC's Columns then.



This is where the VC will shine. If it offers games like Magical Chase or Bonk 3, which are expensive as hell and hard to find, then the service will be doing something that merits using. As it is right now, you're being overcharged for plain ROMs. I'm not necessarily advocating emulation, but you can't ignore reality. Many people have those games on their PCs or modded Xboxs already, and for free.



The people you know who play Geometry Wars must really suck. :p

Again, game length is irrelevant, as I can just ask you "do you think people are really going to pay $8 for Columns?".

I'm not the only one who feels this way either, and Nintendo's retarded attitude towards all things online is a big factor as to why it's where it is. The company is moving away from dedicated gamers and is attempting to attract the casual one. I'm not that market, so I won't be getting a Wii any time soon, and I'm not alone.



I don't, but considering that average people outside the industry have added online play to MAME and the fact that Digital Eclipse is making a FORTUNE enhancing old games for XBLA means that it can be done. Most the consoles on the VC have already been emulated, so it's not like they're running around in the dark without a clue. Don't try and justify Nintendo's laziness here. This is the same company that has charged you how many times for Mario Bros.? Hell, a good portion of its NES VC games were even released on the eReader. This is just a cash run service that does nothing the PC you're typing on can't already do for free.



How do you equate Halo and Gunstar Heroes as comparitive in terms of coding?



Why isn't it feasible? The whole "it's too hard and there are no tools!" argument is bullshit, since the games are already being emulated ON THE VC. They already have the games, it's just laziness that's keeping them from doing it. It's the same attitude they've always had. Remember, this is the same company that said only a year ago that "gamers do not want online play."



Host the game.



You do know that this is what the friends list is for, right? Mine is over 50 people long and I never have a problem finding a good group to play. I've been on XBL since it went up and have had only a handful of the retard experiences you describe, and that was at the beginning. Once you get some friends on your list, this no longer is an issue.

Also, can you have 16 friends over your house to play a game at one time? I know of no console game that does this as of yet.


I've almost maxed out my xbox live list. That doesn't change the fact that if I go into matchmaking in halo 2, odds are I'm going to meet up with fuckwads. Not everyone on my list is going to be playing the same thing I am, or want to.

Also, there's a few games I can get 16 players at one house to do. Halo, Halo 2, Crimson Skies, mario kart: double dash, all of these have been done in our LAN parties before. It's not much more difficult to set up than playing with smaller numbers.

Halo and Gunstar Hereos are comparitive in coding because neither of them were written for online play. You try Halo online through a tunnelling service, and most people will tell you the game is laggy as shit. Why would an old game rom be any different? And you're still ignoring the economics of the situation-it's a pain in the ass to go back and rewrite someone else's assembly code, and it has to be economically feasible on top of that. Why spend thousands to rewrite an old game for online functionality when people will still buy it without any work being done? Pure profit vs a possible loss if barely anyone wants it? I'm willing to bet it isn't worth the money when said money could just go to making a new game built for online play.

Telling me to "host the game" doesn't help. Am I going to know the other guy is going to drop before we play the game? Am I going to know that someone is modding before I start a match? Fuck no. And once again, if I'm playing Halo, I have no control over these things anyway.

I neglect the original Xbox live games because most of them are games I could care less about even trying the demo to.

You may not be alone in not wanting a wii because of, inexplicably, the virtual console not being online, but you're likely in the minority based on the sort of reaction the machine has gotten from gaming folk and non-gaming folk alike. Also, Nintendo didn't say "a year ago" no one wanted online, they said it closer to 4 years ago, and it was a different leadership entirely. I'd say given the online support the DS has gotten, and the positive reaction to that, I'd say Nintendo has learned just how good for business online gaming is. And I don't enjoy emulating games on my PC for that matter, simply because playing games on a PC fucking sucks. Mouse and keyboard, or shitty PC gamepads? You can't win either way.

Also in response to someone else, the main reason we don't have Pokemon Battle Revolution now is because it uses the DS Pokemon games, which won't be out here until next spring. I really can't imagine Nintendo keeping a new Pokemon game on their side of the pacific for long if they don't have to. Also, Battalion Wars was sweet, and if online multiplayer is the ONLY new addition, the sequel would rock pretty hard.

[Leo_A]

"I don't, but considering that average people outside the industry have added online play to MAME and the fact that Digital Eclipse is making a FORTUNE enhancing old games for XBLA means that it can be done. Most the consoles on the VC have already been emulated, so it's not like they're running around in the dark without a clue. Don't try and justify Nintendo's laziness here. This is the same company that has charged you how many times for Mario Bros.? Hell, a good portion of its NES VC games were even released on the eReader. This is just a cash run service that does nothing the PC you're typing on can't already do for free."

They're two different things entirely, you don't seem to understand that. Digital Eclipse is porting simple arcade classics over to Xbox Live Arcade, adding enhancements on the way. They're not doing games of the complexity of things like Super Mario Kart. Only economical way to do what Nintendo is doing is emulation, which means original features only unless you want to haphazardly rig it to do something like online play which wouldn't be enjoyable unless you want noticeable lag in your control inputs. How do you people honestly expect Nintendo to do this to so many old games and sell them at even cheaper prices than you guys want to pay for simple emulated games right now. Look at the credits for any SNES port on the Game Boy Advance, you'll see a impressive number of additional people listed with just a select few from the original game still credited. It takes a lot of resoruces, without even adding new features.

Its not feasible, and you're not going to get it. Might as well enjoy whats there. Look at the slow trickle of things on XBLA even for 25 year old arcade titles, and you guys expect Nintendo do this to 5 or 6 games a week on a much higher magnitude of difficulty than what Digital Eclipse is doing for a small handful of classics?

[Melf]

I've almost maxed out my xbox live list. That doesn't change the fact that if I go into matchmaking in halo 2, odds are I'm going to meet up with fuckwads. Not everyone on my list is going to be playing the same thing I am, or want to.

And you think it's easier to just round up four or five people to come over your house and play what you want whenever you want?


Also, there's a few games I can get 16 players at one house to do. Halo, Halo 2, Crimson Skies, mario kart: double dash, all of these have been done in our LAN parties before. It's not much more difficult to set up than playing with smaller numbers.

You're saying that it's not much harder to round up people, each with a console and TV, and set them up then it is to just log in to XBL and find a quick match?


Halo and Gunstar Hereos are comparitive in coding because neither of them were written for online play. You try Halo online through a tunnelling service, and most people will tell you the game is laggy as shit. Why would an old game rom be any different? And you're still ignoring the economics of the situation-it's a pain in the ass to go back and rewrite someone else's assembly code, and it has to be economically feasible on top of that. Why spend thousands to rewrite an old game for online functionality when people will still buy it without any work being done? Pure profit vs a possible loss if barely anyone wants it? I'm willing to bet it isn't worth the money when said money could just go to making a new game built for online play.

I can see this not being feasible from Nintendo's end, but see, I don't work for Nintendo. As a CONSUMER, I look for what's most feasible for me. Paying ridiculous prices for plain ROMs isn't.


Telling me to "host the game" doesn't help. Am I going to know the other guy is going to drop before we play the game? Am I going to know that someone is modding before I start a match? Fuck no. And once again, if I'm playing Halo, I have no control over these things anyway.

Who are you playing on XBL that's "modding?" And there are other games than Halo, you know. I've never had the problems you have, but them's the breaks.


I neglect the original Xbox live games because most of them are games I could care less about even trying the demo to.

That doesn't diminish their importance. I could say the same thing about the VC.


You may not be alone in not wanting a wii because of, inexplicably, the virtual console not being online, but you're likely in the minority based on the sort of reaction the machine has gotten from gaming folk and non-gaming folk alike.

Where did I ever say I didn't want a Wii because of this? I said I think the VC sucks. My not getting a Wii has much more to do with a lack of good games and not being convinced of the Wiimote than it does Nintendo's weak ROM service.


Also, Nintendo didn't say "a year ago" no one wanted online, they said it closer to 4 years ago, and it was a different leadership entirely. I'd say given the online support the DS has gotten, and the positive reaction to that, I'd say Nintendo has learned just how good for business online gaming is.

So it would make sense to offer some type of online play here, wouldn't it?


And I don't enjoy emulating games on my PC for that matter, simply because playing games on a PC fucking sucks. Mouse and keyboard, or shitty PC gamepads? You can't win either way.

...or you could just mod your Xbox and have the best of both worlds.


They're two different things entirely, you don't seem to understand that. Digital Eclipse is porting simple arcade classics over to Xbox Live Arcade, adding enhancements on the way. They're not doing games of the complexity of things like Super Mario Kart. Only economical way to do what Nintendo is doing is emulation, which means original features only unless you want to haphazardly rig it to do something like online play which wouldn't be enjoyable unless you want noticeable lag in your control inputs. How do you people honestly expect Nintendo to do this to so many old games and sell them at even cheaper prices than you guys want to pay for simple emulated games right now. Look at the credits for any SNES port on the Game Boy Advance, you'll see a impressive number of additional people listed with just a select few from the original game still credited. It takes a lot of resoruces, without even adding new features.

C'mon. Nintendo is the only one not even making an attempt at this and everyone says it's because it costs too much or is too hard. No one is saying that SNES and later Genesis games all have to have online play. They could start with the NES games (how hard would it be for games like Bubble Bobble?). Even GameTap is offering leaderboards and online play for older games. Hell, at least add leaderboards, for God's sake.

The fact is, Nintendo sees the VC as a quick way to make money off of things that people have been getting for free for years. If you're content with paying $5 for yet ANOTHER version of Mario Bros. and Zelda, then be my guest. Just don't say that it's too hard and can't be done. Everyone but Nintendo is doing it already for consoles and PC.


Its not feasible, and you're not going to get it. Might as well enjoy whats there. Look at the slow trickle of things on XBLA even for 25 year old arcade titles, and you guys expect Nintendo do this to 5 or 6 games a week on a much higher magnitude of difficulty than what Digital Eclipse is doing for a small handful of classics?

No one expects them to do it for so many releases a week. I'm sure people (especially Nintendo fans) would be as giddy as school girls if they got one or two releases a week with online play and leaderboards.

[ubersaurus]

And you think it's easier to just round up four or five people to come over your house and play what you want whenever you want?



Yup. Technically not my house, but a friend's house. Mine's too messy.




You're saying that it's not much harder to round up people, each with a console and TV, and set them up then it is to just log in to XBL and find a quick match?



Once again, yup. At the least, knowing the people I'm playing with means I won't have to deal with assclowns online, which makes up for any increase in difficulty. And as fun as playing a game online is, nothing, nothing has ever compared to getting the crew together and playing in one spot. That's just way more fun than online gaming can ever get.




I can see this not being feasible from Nintendo's end, but see, I don't work for Nintendo. As a CONSUMER, I look for what's most feasible for me. Paying ridiculous prices for plain ROMs isn't.


And as a consumer, I buy the VC games that I want. I picked up F-Zero, Bonk, and Super Star Soldier. The latter are pains in the ass to find by virtue of being turbografx games, and F-Zero I don't own. And really, being able to save in F-Zero is so very nice compared to the original cartridge's "do everything in one sitting" setup.





Who are you playing on XBL that's "modding?" And there are other games than Halo, you know. I've never had the problems you have, but them's the breaks.


Modding comes up pretty frequently in Halo once you get to the higher levels like my friends and I are at. And although there are other games besides Halo, Halo is the second most popular Live game, and has been number one up until Gears of War came out. Simply by virtue of being so popular means you have to deal with modders.



That doesn't diminish their importance. I could say the same thing about the VC.

True, but considering how few they are in number compared to longer VC games even after a year, speaks to me over how most companies view the services.




Where did I ever say I didn't want a Wii because of this? I said I think the VC sucks. My not getting a Wii has much more to do with a lack of good games and not being convinced of the Wiimote than it does Nintendo's weak ROM service.


Having played, and owning, the wii, I can testify to the quality of the wiimote and the current game lineup(which is small, granted).



So it would make sense to offer some type of online play here, wouldn't it?


Exactly. Given that titles that use it have already been announced, one could surmise that by the time you probably would procure a wii, there'd be some to play. The DS didn't have online play for a year after launch, after all. Neither did the original Xbox :P



...or you could just mod your Xbox and have the best of both worlds.


yes, yes I'm going to mod my xbox and risk getting banned for signing onto Halo to play with friends. It's not worth it. Let alone the fact that I don't want to dick around with an LE xbox.



C'mon. Nintendo is the only one not even making an attempt at this and everyone says it's because it costs too much or is too hard. No one is saying that SNES and later Genesis games all have to have online play. They could start with the NES games (how hard would it be for games like Bubble Bobble?). Even GameTap is offering leaderboards and online play for older games. Hell, at least add leaderboards, for God's sake.

The fact is, Nintendo sees the VC as a quick way to make money off of things that people have been getting for free for years. If you're content with paying $5 for yet ANOTHER version of Mario Bros. and Zelda, then be my guest. Just don't say that it's too hard and can't be done. Everyone but Nintendo is doing it already for consoles and PC.


Nintendo is looking at the VC as a way to make cash off of their old properties and to have a legal leg to stand on in their prosecuting of rom distributing. Further, just because a game is older, doesn't make it any simpler to change the code to. Most people who homebrew will tell you the older your systems get, the more limited they are in what you can do and what you can work with. Once again, there's no point when they could just write up a new version of Bubble Bobble specifically for the wii, and put it up on the Virtual Console. That was another thing they talked about doing-making original wii games that are downloaded off that service, akin to your Marble Blast Ultra and other such titles. I've no reason to doubt that those games will end up with online play.



No one expects them to do it for so many releases a week. I'm sure people (especially Nintendo fans) would be as giddy as school girls if they got one or two releases a week with online play and leaderboards.
I don't know, I'm rather digging the 4-5 games a week. Even if I own most of them already, it still means that I'm likely to come across something good I don't have at least once a month.

[Ed Oscuro]

I've talked about this elsewhere.

I think it might be appropriate to wait and see. They might yet add new features if it seems that would draw in more customers. From my perspective, they really are going to have to do that. I have emulators (that I can configure as I like) and most original games, so a system that saves a high score is not a big enough draw.

The lack of multiplayer makes me wonder if latency issues are the cause. Certainly, one doesn't encounter latency when playing on real consoles!

Right now instead of multiplayer I'm doing fine on the shmups.com highscore boards, and with the CV Dungeon Forum's highscore thread (in the Hardcore Gaming section), posting high scores in a sort of friendly competition.