video gaming as we know and love it, is in SERIOUS DANGER!

[Anthony1]

We've had discussions about this before, but I don't think anybody has called for an out and out boycott, but I'm going to do that right now. This is in regards to the latest video game craze. (At least it's the latest craze for a company like EA). Microtransactions and just about anything that is "virtual" for more than 5 bucks.

Those of us that have Xbox Live are very aware that something is changing right now in video games. It's subtle, but the changes are happening, and they are going on behind the scenes, and it's starting as a small ripple in the ocean that is growing strength, but pretty soon it's going to be an unstoppable Tsunami, and we are all going to wonder just how the fuck did it get to this point? It's all these freaking downloadable things that we can buy for a few bucks, or for much bigger bucks (Lumines live, NFS: Carbon). As we speak, companies are developing new games right now, and they are deliberately setting aside game levels and multiplayer maps with the idea of them being "premium downloadable content" for gamers to add later for a fee. The fact that developers are actively doing this and thinking that it isn't any big deal at all is both frightening, and downright terrifying. Why is all this shit happening? It's simple. There are goofballs out there, that are paying 300 microsoft points or whatever, just so they can have a Call of Duty 3 theme on their Xbox Live dashboard. People are paying actual freaking money, just so their UNO card decks have Viva Pinata designs on them. This is the problem. This is the root of it. Devleopers know that there are enough idiots out there that buy all this crap, so they are going to keep spoon feeding it to us.


The thing is, it would be one thing if they were to just offer extra crap to make a few more bucks, but it's much more insidious than that. A 14 level game 2 years ago, is going to be an 11 level game today. 3 levels are going to be removed, key word being "REMOVED", so that it can later be sold as "Premium Downloadable Content". Sure, developers and publishers are going to pretend that these extra levels never had anything to do with the original game, and they are also probably going to explain that these levels were made after the retail game went gold, but we all know otherwise. Nobody is working on any projects right now, without taking future downloadable content into consideration. The easiest way to do that is to take a few extra multiplayer maps or levels or tracks (in a racing game), or classic stadiums or arenas (in a sports game) and setting them aside to be sold as additional content that "expands the original experience for the gamers that want their game experience to continue......". Yeah right, what a bunch of BULLSHIT.

The only way for us to overcome all this crap, and ensure that video games as we know them doesn't become this ala cart menu that we have to stare at to determine what kind of game we are going to be able to play, is for us to say NO to all this shit. We have to say NO. I'm not going to call for a complete and total boycott of any downloadable content that costs $$$, because I don't think we should absolutely 100 percent discourage downloadable content of any kind, but I think we should only buy things if they fall under two conditions:


No.1 - The price has to be $5 or less. PERIOD. Don't buy a single thing that is more than $5. I don't care what the fuck it is. It can be the most incredible new level for Halo 3 or Metal Gear Solid 4. I DON'T CARE. We have to avoid the temptation and just forgoe it right now. We have to just leave it on the table. We have to send them a message. Don't go for the immediate gratification while at the same time completely ruining the future of gaming as we know it. You might think that a $15 map pack for Rainbox Six: Vegas isn't going to hurt anything by buying it now, but IT WILL!!! AVOID THE TEMPTATION AND DON"T DO IT. As hard or as painfull as it might be to avoid, WE MUST DO THIS!!


No.2 - Even if something is $5 or less, it better be something real. Something tangible. Something like Cloning Clyde. (Of course Cloning Clyde costs more than $5 so don't buy that, but you get the picture). It's gotta be an actual game in itself. Like Geometry Wars. Not some freaking bonus pack in Saint's Row that lets you run around with the King from Burger King's head on your body. Heck, it can even be an old game, that's just thrown on there to make a few extra bucks, like Doom (again a game that costs more than $5 so DON"T BUY IT). The point is, it has to be something that is complete in itself, not an add on to anything else.



Now, look, I know that this is a very harsh take, and you guys are going to come up with all kinds of exceptions of stuff that is actually worth the money, and doesn't fall into those two categories and how this stuff is actually good for the industry, but unfortunately, even buying good shit right now is not a good idea. These next few years with all this downloadable content is going to basically decide how our next 30 years of gaming is going to turn out. If we keep buying this shit over these next 24 months, we are going to totally ruin the next 30 years of gaming. We will get to the point where we don't even buy an actual game anymore, but pay $10 per level to play a 12 level game, and end up paying $120 for a game we would have paid $49.99 for back in 2003. And that's before buying the extra map packs and all that other nonsense. I know it's going to be hard, but if we can just hold out for like 24 months, we will get exactly what we are looking for. Premium Downloadable content, only under situations in which it makes sense, and for a very nominal fee. Levels won't be removed from games and sold as premium content later, because the economics of doing that won't pan out. But if we continue to buy all this bullshit like we have been, then our enjoyment of this industry, not to mention our wallets are going to be Doomed to HELL.

[Nature Boy]

We've had discussions about this before, but I don't think anybody has called for an out and out boycott, but I'm going to do that right now. This is in regards to the latest video game craze. (At least it's the latest craze for a company like EA). Microtransactions and just about anything that is "virtual" for more than 5 bucks.

Can't you ever be concise? Like ever?

Calling it a boycott is a bit silly. Call it what it really is - consumer choice. If consumers decide it's a bad deal it will go away. If consumers like the idea (and I have a feeling they will), it's here to stay and you and I have to live with it.

Notice how I said that in one short paragraph?

I don't like 'em either, but I also don't like how online play seems to be taking over modern gaming and that hasn't ruined my life either. I can certainly spend the rest of my life playing the games I already own without worrying about running out of material...

[jajaja]

It depends on what you put in the phrase "as we know it". The days where you go to the store and pick up a game, play it for yourself only and thats it is over yes, but even if new stuff is happending doesnt mean its something bad.

Essensial parts of the game will never downloadable. I mean, if you go to the store and pick up a game for $50 and then you have to download 3 extra missions for $10 to be able to follow the story in the game. This wont happend. Extra maps, side missions etc. yes, but not essensial parts.

When it comes to it, games is about making money. No one will make a big game without thinking they can profit from it. Adding downloadable stuff gives more money in the bank. I think the extra download stuff is great. It gives you a chance to add more cool stuff to your favorite games. Yes, free would be even better of course, but as i said, in the end its all about making money.

[hydr0x]

It's a rare occasion but i actually kinda agree with you Anthony. Downloadable "extra" content that costs real money should be prevented by console manufacturers to start with. It's a bad idea for small developers and especially for the gamers. What's even worse than having to pay for it is the fact that you can actually lose this crap after having paid for it, without doing anything wrong. That should worry everyone.

[98PaceCar]

Calling it a boycott is a bit silly. Call it what it really is - consumer choice. If consumers decide it's a bad deal it will go away. If consumers like the idea (and I have a feeling they will), it's here to stay and you and I have to live with it.


Very well said!

There is a belief around here that the current trends regarding gaming are aimed at people like us. They aren't. I guarantee that nobody at Nintendo ever thought that collectors would like the idea of a virtual console with games for sale. Things like the virtual console and microtransactions are aimed directly at casual gamers that want to be able to experience a game or level without the hassle of needing to track it down or unlock it.

Not everybody has the time, skill, or patience to play a game until every single item is unlocked and many are willing to pay a couple bucks just to be able to have a new level or something like that.

[Gamereviewgod]

No.2 - Even if something is $5 or less, it better be something real. Something tangible. Something like Cloning Clyde. (Of course Cloning Clyde costs more than $5 so don't buy that, but you get the picture). It's gotta be an actual game in itself.

Didn't you just contradict yourself completely right there? A completely original independent game built from the ground up for $10 is a rip off and killing the industry? Seriously, that's completely stupid.

[Ponyone]

It's not like this is new. PC games have had expansion packs for years and it hasn't killed PC gaming

3do had Return Fire and that had an expansion map pack.. and the 3do is still alive and well.

I can see the stupid crap (wallpapers, fonts, Sam Fisher ringtones) being stupid to purchase, but new maps are always welcome (but should be cheap)

video games are becoming like PC games (patches, new maps, multiplayer) and the consoles have become mini PCs both in hardware and software.

[VACRMH]

video games are becoming like PC games (patches, new maps, multiplayer) and the consoles have become mini PCs both in hardware and software.

That's sad to hear. As some people never go online with consoles.

[slip81]

If you're so dissatisfied with the current gen you could always sell your 360, Wii and PS3, use the $1000+ you'll make to buy and play any of the thousands of cheap, non-online, self contained games for any colsole from the Atari 2600 right up through the original Xbox.

To me that would make the bigger statement, instead of just boycotting thier online system, boycot the entire system. And then when they've "come around" to your way of thinking you can re-buy the console for probably a few hundred less than you originally paid.

This way everyone wins, you don't have to worry about microtransactions while playing your PSX, and we don't have to listen to you repeat yourself in countless threads about how you hate downloadable content that costs more than $5.

Besides isn't your online plan so awesome that you can rent 12 games for the price of one 360 game? If that's the case you could rent say CoD 3, buy all the extra crap off live and still not have spent as much as it would cost you to buy the game brand new,(or used for that matter). So you're still coming out ahead.

[rbudrick]

I like corn. If they let me pay to download it, even better, cuz that's like, more corn.

Not necessarily better corn, just different corn. Different corn doesn't mean the extinction of the old corn.

Or something.

-Rob

[Half Japanese]

We've had discussions about this before, but I don't think anybody has called for an out and out boycott, but I'm going to do that right now. This is in regards to the latest post by Anthony1. (At least it's the latest post for a loon like Anthony1). Long drawn-out posts and just about anything that is "redundant" for more than 5 paragraphs.

Those of us that have Digital Press forum accounts are very aware that something is getting worse right now in the forum. It's never subtle, but the changes are unlikely, and they are going on right in front of our faces, and it's starting as a small ripple in the ocean that is growing strength, but pretty soon it's going to be an unstoppable Tsunami, and we are all going to wonder just how the fuck did it get to this point? It's all these freaking long-ass posts that we can read for a few minutes, or for much longer spans of time (RGB, Boycotts). As we speak, Anthony1 is developing new posts right now, and they are deliberately setting aside relevant and to-the-point discussion with the idea of them being "as long as fucking possible" for gamers to suffer through. The fact that Anthony1 is actively doing this and thinking that it isn't any big deal at all is both frightening, and downright terrifying. Why is all this shit happening? It's simple. There are goofballs out there, that are wasting all of their time or whatever, just so they can have an inflated ego and get attention out of it. People are spending their actual freaking time, just so their minds can have Anthony1 bullshit on them. This is the problem. This is the root of it. Anthony1 know that there are enough idiots out there that read all this crap, so he is going to keep spoon feeding it to us.


The thing is, it would be one thing if they were to just offer extra crap to make a few more points, but it's much more insidious than that. A 3 paragraph post 2 years ago, is going to be a 5 paragraph post today. Any ideas that are to-the-point are going to be removed, key word being "REMOVED", so that it can later be read as "Just Short of a Fuckin' Novel". Sure, Anthony1 and his fans are going to pretend that these extra paragraphs never had anything to do with a cry for attention, and they are also probably going to explain that these posts were made when he could have been making better use of his time, but we all know otherwise. Anthony1 isn't working on any posts right now, without taking word-count into consideration. The easiest way to do that is to take a few extra random ideas or rants or RGB (God's video format), or boycotts or 60-inch screens (in a garage) and setting them aside to be read as additional content that "expands the original experience for the readers that want their reading experience to continue......". Yeah right, what a bunch of BULLSHIT.

The only way for us to overcome all this crap, and ensure that posting at DP as we know it doesn't become this menu-less buffet that we have to stare at to determine what kind of post we are going to be able to read, is for us to say NO to all this shit. We have to say NO. I'm not going to call for a complete and total boycott of any long post that takes a while to read, because I don't think we should absolutely 100 percent discourage long posts of any kind, but I think we should only read things if they fall under two conditions:


No.1 - The post has to be 5 paragraphs or less. PERIOD. Don't read a single thing that is more than 5 paragraphs. I don't care what the fuck it is. It can be the most incredible new discussion for Halo 3 or Metal Gear Solid 4. I DON'T CARE. We have to avoid the temptation and just forgoe it right now. We have to just leave it on the table. We have to send them a message. Don't go for the immediate gratification while at the same time completely ruining the future of posting as we know it. You might think that a 15 paragraph post about Rainbox Six: Vegas isn't going to hurt anything by reading it now, but IT WILL!!! AVOID THE TEMPTATION AND DON"T DO IT. As hard or as painfull as it might be to avoid, WE MUST DO THIS!!


No.2 - Even if something is 5 paragraphs or less, it better be something real. Something tangible. Something like Butter Monster. (Of course Butter Monster lost its steam by page 5 so don't read all of that, but you get the picture). It's gotta be an actual post in itself. Like discussion about the newest Castlevania. Not some freaking "post" in Modern Gaming that lets Anthony1 run around like a chicken with its head cut off. Heck, it can even be an old post, that's just thrown on there to make a little discussion, like "What's the last CD you purchased?" (again a post that lasts more than 5 pages so DON"T READ ALL OF IT). The point is, it has to be something that is to-the-point in itself, not an add on about anything else.



Now, look, I know that this is a very harsh take, and you guys are going to come up with all kinds of exceptions of stuff that is actually worth the time, and doesn't fall into those two categories and how this stuff is actually good for the community, but unfortunately, even reading good shit right now is not a good idea. These next few years with all this meaningless content is going to basically decide how our next 30 years of discussing gaming is going to turn out. If we keep reading this shit over these next 24 months, we are going to totally ruin the next 30 years of discussing gaming. We will get to the point where we don't even read an actual post anymore, but read 10 paragraphs per day to read what we should have been able to read in two paragraphs in one single day. And that's before reading the extra shit thrown in for word-count and all that other nonsense. I know it's going to be hard, but if we can just hold out for like 24 months, we will get exactly what we are looking for. Premium posting content, only under situations in which it makes sense, and for the same price: FREE. Meaningful content won't be removed from posts and added as replies later, because the economics of doing that won't pan out. But if we continue to read all this bullshit like we have been, then our enjoyment of this community, not to mention our eyes are going to be Doomed to HELL.

[spunibard]

this clicked for me when i heard about EA charging players just to unlock something that you would previously have to unlock by playing.

this is bad because: game co. management will say we need someone to design more buyable extras... let's pull Billy off of that cool project that is not as much of a ReturnOnInvestment. Heck, let's pull everyone from that a cancel it because we want a LOT of buyable extras.

the result is less gaming goodness for more revenue, made possible by masses of folks who don't mind paying out of the nose for games they hardly play. (wait a minute...)

there will always be more people that don't care about this than those who do, so there isn't much of a point to doing anything anyway. it's been a very long time since gaming industry has been targeted for the people who care about it most, and it will probably definitely never be that way again. all we can do is enjoy what we have.

i know i have way more than enough games to keep me busy for the next year... or five. not including alot of current and next gen games.

[ProgrammingAce]

There is another side to this, you kill microtransactions, you're going to kill some of the smaller publishers. Namco is really starting to struggle with their finances and is using things like pacman to stay afloat. It costs them virtually nothing to put it on the 360 and they make enough money to work on other projects.

They say you have to sell 300,000 copies of a next gen title just to break even, when it doesn't sell that well you have to make up the difference somewhere. Perhaps if Capcom had a few extra microtransactions in Dead Rising, they would have been able to justify keeping Clover Studios open a bit longer.

Everything has a cause and effect. If you don't like microtransactions then don't buy them, you don't owe anything to these companies. But don't be suprised when more of them start closing down because they can't keep up with the rising cost of development.

[jajaja]

That's sad to hear. As some people never go online with consoles.

Its not mandatory to download the extra stuff so you dont have to get online to play the games.

[ubersaurus]

I'm fine with paying a few bucks for maps or for a downloadable game. I'm not going to be buying xbox themes or anything, but if I dig the game enough I'll buy stuff.

[Leo_A]

A typical Anthony1 post...

Anyways I love microtransactions. Everyone I've tried like the Paris and Long Beach booster packs for PGR2 were very well done and worth the price. I'm not going to say no since you have zero facts just like always to back up your arguement.

[s1lence]

Lots of Stuff in Reference to Anthony1.

Very well said. :D

[slip81]

I'm rating this thread 5 stars for entertainment factor.

[GrandAmChandler]

I refuse to read all of that crap. So I will just simply state that the $10 that I paid for Doom on Xbox Live was well worth the money and I highly reccommend it to everyone to purchase. Also, Contra, Marble Blast Ultra, Texas Hold'em, and UNO are all worth purchasing.

[Emuaust]

Long Winded stuff

Has there not been a topic similar to this?
Anthony we are all well aware of your Microtransaction Srance

[Hypnotuba]

There might be something to Anthony's post, once you get past the melodrama about how we'll "totally ruin the next 30 years of gaming" and being "doomed to HELL" and so on. :) (I'm assuming his hyperbole is for humor)

Of course, you're not forced to buy anything, but I would be a bit put off if I had to, say, pay extra to get the Polo Grounds in a baseball game, mainly because I'm used to having something like that as an unlockable, not a purchaseable. :) I would also be annoyed if I had to pay extra to get a code to unlock a feature that is already on the game disc, but unavailable through gameplay. (If that even happens.)

Anthony's conjecture that "A 14 level game 2 years ago, is going to be an 11 level game today. 3 levels are going to be removed, key word being "REMOVED". . .if things were to go that way, I wouldn't be pleased.

But, Anthony brought up the idea of spending points on a CoD theme. To me, that is a fine use of microtransactions. Something that's not essential to the game.

Oh, and I would pay $50 for a "freaking bonus pack in Saint's Row that lets you run around with the King from Burger King's head on your body." :)

[jajaja]

Anthony's conjecture that "A 14 level game 2 years ago, is going to be an 11 level game today. 3 levels are going to be removed, key word being "REMOVED". . .if things were to go that way, I wouldn't be pleased.

I forgot to comment on that. With all due respect, that is bullshit. How many levels are totaly depending on what the developers does. Take a FPS games for instance, the developers wont make 3 levels that are essensial to the game for download only, as i mentioned before. Another example, if a driving game gets an extra track that for download only there is no guarante that this exact track would have been included in the retail game 2 years ago.

[Hypnotuba]

I forgot to comment on that. With all due respect, that is bullshit. How many levels are totaly depending on what the developers does. Take a FPS games for instance, the developers wont make 3 levels that are essensial to the game for download only, as i mentioned before. Another example, if a driving game gets an extra track that for download only there is no guarante that this exact track would have been included in the retail game 2 years ago.


Of course, they'd never make essential levels downloadable only. Perhaps a sidequest might be made downloadable. But, you'd never really be able to know if that sidequest would've been included or not. I guess I was commenting on his idea, that IF something like that were to happen, it would not be good. Not that I think it really would actually happen. :) Just trying to give Anthony the benefit of the doubt or something. :)

[Wolfrider31]

I don't mind microtransactions on EXPANSIONS to games. But if I drop 60 bucks on a game, I better get the whole damn thing. Start to finish. An extra dungeon or so for Zelda? Go for it. But this Gran Turismo "Buy the first half of the game, download the rest" nonsense is economic rape, and my assumption is that any company who makes this a primary business strategy is going to fall flat on its face. Could you imagine this in another form of media? Buy a movie, watch half of it and then download and pay for the rest? Why are gamers so willing to run over by companies likes this?

I have very little tolerance for that kind of corporate BS and that's been boiling in me since before microtransactions. I have a rule when I buy PC games: If I pop it in my computer and it doesn't run on the first install, I pack it up and return it.

Edit: I don't own many PC games.

[Iron Draggon]

I would only say if they're gonna do this shit, then they should allow modders to sell their content in this way too... why should the developers be the only ones able to make a few bucks from selling us extra stuff for a game? and if they did allow modders to make a few bucks in this way, it would encourage alot more modding... the benefit of which for us of course would be even more stuff to choose from... I'm all for it, as long as anyone can get a piece of the action, but if it's just gonna be a new way for corporate developers to make even more money off of us, then I say nay... all this talk they do about how they aren't making enough money and thus they have to keep charging us more and more for less and less is just bullshit... they're making plenty of money... they just aren't making enough to satisfy their greed... it shouldn't cost anymore to produce a game today than it did ten years ago... but they have this mentality that they can make up whatever excuse they want to for charging us more while giving us less, because we'll all be too addicted to our gaming habits to do anything but fork over whatever they ask for whatever they give us... and they're right too... which is how this new micropayment trend got started and why it exists... because we'll all just go along with it...

[mailman187666]

I think Anthony1 does have a point. But downloadable content can become something better than it is now. It could go either way in the future. I know that microsoft heard about what the public thinks about Lumines pricing and Bethesda heard people thought the horse armor was a rip off. Thats what they are doing right now. They are testing everything and working out all the bugs on this type of thing. They'll come up with more firm pricing points and come out with downloads that are well worth the extra dough. My personal opinion is there are a lot of things that are not worth paying the money for (such as gamer pics and extra suits and colors). But some of the Oblivion downloads (to me) were worth the under $2.00 price they asked for. I also enjoy small arms, doom, and geometry wars on my 360. I am also happy I got my favorite episode of Chapelle's Show on my hard drive. So I'm thinking it could be for better or for worse, and I think they can/will take it in the right direction.

[jajaja]

Of course, they'd never make essential levels downloadable only. Perhaps a sidequest might be made downloadable. But, you'd never really be able to know if that sidequest would've been included or not. I guess I was commenting on his idea, that IF something like that were to happen, it would not be good. Not that I think it really would actually happen. :) Just trying to give Anthony the benefit of the doubt or something. :)

Yep :) For me personaly it doesnt really matter, dont see it as a problem. I would probly "never" buy extra stuff like that since i hardly play any new games and i really dont get into those i play. But i wouldnt mind paying like $5 for an extra map or mission for a game i really enjoy. Its not like you pay $5 every day, maybe its once a month or so. I can spare that ;)

[Nature Boy]

But this Gran Turismo "Buy the first half of the game, download the rest" nonsense is economic rape,

Whoa there cowboy. Take a deep breath.

I find the idea of selling two versions of the game (one with next to nothing, one complete) an interesting one. I've never fully completed a GT game before, so the idea of getting a version of it I might fully complete for a lot less money appeals to me. Would I ever pay for any of the extra stuff? Probably not. But knowing I could if I ever feel I need more doesn't bother me.

(I have heard that GT *will* come as two versions, although I don't remember where I heard that unfortunately...)

Paying to unlock stuff doesn't bother me either. In fact it kind of irks me sometimes that I've already *paid* for the stuff I've not yet unlocked in some of my games. Getting everything at once and not paying for something I'll never see anyway doesn't seem so bad.

As a consumer it's up to us to decide what works best, but don't dismiss a new idea until you've seen it in action and have either benefitted or been burned by it.

[Anthony1]

We've had discussions about this before, but I don't think anybody has called for an out and out boycott, but I'm going to do that right now. This is in regards to the latest post by Anthony1. (At least it's the latest post for a loon like Anthony1). Long drawn-out posts and just about anything that is "redundant" for more than 5 paragraphs.

Those of us that have Digital Press forum accounts are very aware that something is getting worse right now in the forum. It's never subtle, but the changes are unlikely, and they are going on right in front of our faces, and it's starting as a small ripple in the ocean that is growing strength, but pretty soon it's going to be an unstoppable Tsunami, and we are all going to wonder just how the fuck did it get to this point? It's all these freaking long-ass posts that we can read for a few minutes, or for much longer spans of time (RGB, Boycotts). As we speak, Anthony1 is developing new posts right now, and they are deliberately setting aside relevant and to-the-point discussion with the idea of them being "as long as fucking possible" for gamers to suffer through. The fact that Anthony1 is actively doing this and thinking that it isn't any big deal at all is both frightening, and downright terrifying. Why is all this shit happening? It's simple. There are goofballs out there, that are wasting all of their time or whatever, just so they can have an inflated ego and get attention out of it. People are spending their actual freaking time, just so their minds can have Anthony1 bullshit on them. This is the problem. This is the root of it. Anthony1 know that there are enough idiots out there that read all this crap, so he is going to keep spoon feeding it to us.


The thing is, it would be one thing if they were to just offer extra crap to make a few more points, but it's much more insidious than that. A 3 paragraph post 2 years ago, is going to be a 5 paragraph post today. Any ideas that are to-the-point are going to be removed, key word being "REMOVED", so that it can later be read as "Just Short of a Fuckin' Novel". Sure, Anthony1 and his fans are going to pretend that these extra paragraphs never had anything to do with a cry for attention, and they are also probably going to explain that these posts were made when he could have been making better use of his time, but we all know otherwise. Anthony1 isn't working on any posts right now, without taking word-count into consideration. The easiest way to do that is to take a few extra random ideas or rants or RGB (God's video format), or boycotts or 60-inch screens (in a garage) and setting them aside to be read as additional content that "expands the original experience for the readers that want their reading experience to continue......". Yeah right, what a bunch of BULLSHIT.

The only way for us to overcome all this crap, and ensure that posting at DP as we know it doesn't become this menu-less buffet that we have to stare at to determine what kind of post we are going to be able to read, is for us to say NO to all this shit. We have to say NO. I'm not going to call for a complete and total boycott of any long post that takes a while to read, because I don't think we should absolutely 100 percent discourage long posts of any kind, but I think we should only read things if they fall under two conditions:


No.1 - The post has to be 5 paragraphs or less. PERIOD. Don't read a single thing that is more than 5 paragraphs. I don't care what the fuck it is. It can be the most incredible new discussion for Halo 3 or Metal Gear Solid 4. I DON'T CARE. We have to avoid the temptation and just forgoe it right now. We have to just leave it on the table. We have to send them a message. Don't go for the immediate gratification while at the same time completely ruining the future of posting as we know it. You might think that a 15 paragraph post about Rainbox Six: Vegas isn't going to hurt anything by reading it now, but IT WILL!!! AVOID THE TEMPTATION AND DON"T DO IT. As hard or as painfull as it might be to avoid, WE MUST DO THIS!!


No.2 - Even if something is 5 paragraphs or less, it better be something real. Something tangible. Something like Butter Monster. (Of course Butter Monster lost its steam by page 5 so don't read all of that, but you get the picture). It's gotta be an actual post in itself. Like discussion about the newest Castlevania. Not some freaking "post" in Modern Gaming that lets Anthony1 run around like a chicken with its head cut off. Heck, it can even be an old post, that's just thrown on there to make a little discussion, like "What's the last CD you purchased?" (again a post that lasts more than 5 pages so DON"T READ ALL OF IT). The point is, it has to be something that is to-the-point in itself, not an add on about anything else.



Now, look, I know that this is a very harsh take, and you guys are going to come up with all kinds of exceptions of stuff that is actually worth the time, and doesn't fall into those two categories and how this stuff is actually good for the community, but unfortunately, even reading good shit right now is not a good idea. These next few years with all this meaningless content is going to basically decide how our next 30 years of discussing gaming is going to turn out. If we keep reading this shit over these next 24 months, we are going to totally ruin the next 30 years of discussing gaming. We will get to the point where we don't even read an actual post anymore, but read 10 paragraphs per day to read what we should have been able to read in two paragraphs in one single day. And that's before reading the extra shit thrown in for word-count and all that other nonsense. I know it's going to be hard, but if we can just hold out for like 24 months, we will get exactly what we are looking for. Premium posting content, only under situations in which it makes sense, and for the same price: FREE. Meaningful content won't be removed from posts and added as replies later, because the economics of doing that won't pan out. But if we continue to read all this bullshit like we have been, then our enjoyment of this community, not to mention our eyes are going to be Doomed to HELL.


WOW, that is funny as hell! Good job man. That had me laughing so hard, I almost spewed some soda out my nose!

[Captain Wrong]

We've had discussions about this before, but I don't think anybody has called for an out and out boycott, but I'm going to do that right now. This is in regards to the latest post by Anthony1. (At least it's the latest post for a loon like Anthony1). Long drawn-out posts and just about anything that is "redundant" for more than 5 paragraphs.

Those of us that have Digital Press forum accounts are very aware that something is getting worse right now in the forum. It's never subtle, but the changes are unlikely, and they are going on right in front of our faces, and it's starting as a small ripple in the ocean that is growing strength, but pretty soon it's going to be an unstoppable Tsunami, and we are all going to wonder just how the fuck did it get to this point? It's all these freaking long-ass posts that we can read for a few minutes, or for much longer spans of time (RGB, Boycotts). As we speak, Anthony1 is developing new posts right now, and they are deliberately setting aside relevant and to-the-point discussion with the idea of them being "as long as fucking possible" for gamers to suffer through. The fact that Anthony1 is actively doing this and thinking that it isn't any big deal at all is both frightening, and downright terrifying. Why is all this shit happening? It's simple. There are goofballs out there, that are wasting all of their time or whatever, just so they can have an inflated ego and get attention out of it. People are spending their actual freaking time, just so their minds can have Anthony1 bullshit on them. This is the problem. This is the root of it. Anthony1 know that there are enough idiots out there that read all this crap, so he is going to keep spoon feeding it to us.


The thing is, it would be one thing if they were to just offer extra crap to make a few more points, but it's much more insidious than that. A 3 paragraph post 2 years ago, is going to be a 5 paragraph post today. Any ideas that are to-the-point are going to be removed, key word being "REMOVED", so that it can later be read as "Just Short of a Fuckin' Novel". Sure, Anthony1 and his fans are going to pretend that these extra paragraphs never had anything to do with a cry for attention, and they are also probably going to explain that these posts were made when he could have been making better use of his time, but we all know otherwise. Anthony1 isn't working on any posts right now, without taking word-count into consideration. The easiest way to do that is to take a few extra random ideas or rants or RGB (God's video format), or boycotts or 60-inch screens (in a garage) and setting them aside to be read as additional content that "expands the original experience for the readers that want their reading experience to continue......". Yeah right, what a bunch of BULLSHIT.

The only way for us to overcome all this crap, and ensure that posting at DP as we know it doesn't become this menu-less buffet that we have to stare at to determine what kind of post we are going to be able to read, is for us to say NO to all this shit. We have to say NO. I'm not going to call for a complete and total boycott of any long post that takes a while to read, because I don't think we should absolutely 100 percent discourage long posts of any kind, but I think we should only read things if they fall under two conditions:


No.1 - The post has to be 5 paragraphs or less. PERIOD. Don't read a single thing that is more than 5 paragraphs. I don't care what the fuck it is. It can be the most incredible new discussion for Halo 3 or Metal Gear Solid 4. I DON'T CARE. We have to avoid the temptation and just forgoe it right now. We have to just leave it on the table. We have to send them a message. Don't go for the immediate gratification while at the same time completely ruining the future of posting as we know it. You might think that a 15 paragraph post about Rainbox Six: Vegas isn't going to hurt anything by reading it now, but IT WILL!!! AVOID THE TEMPTATION AND DON"T DO IT. As hard or as painfull as it might be to avoid, WE MUST DO THIS!!


No.2 - Even if something is 5 paragraphs or less, it better be something real. Something tangible. Something like Butter Monster. (Of course Butter Monster lost its steam by page 5 so don't read all of that, but you get the picture). It's gotta be an actual post in itself. Like discussion about the newest Castlevania. Not some freaking "post" in Modern Gaming that lets Anthony1 run around like a chicken with its head cut off. Heck, it can even be an old post, that's just thrown on there to make a little discussion, like "What's the last CD you purchased?" (again a post that lasts more than 5 pages so DON"T READ ALL OF IT). The point is, it has to be something that is to-the-point in itself, not an add on about anything else.



Now, look, I know that this is a very harsh take, and you guys are going to come up with all kinds of exceptions of stuff that is actually worth the time, and doesn't fall into those two categories and how this stuff is actually good for the community, but unfortunately, even reading good shit right now is not a good idea. These next few years with all this meaningless content is going to basically decide how our next 30 years of discussing gaming is going to turn out. If we keep reading this shit over these next 24 months, we are going to totally ruin the next 30 years of discussing gaming. We will get to the point where we don't even read an actual post anymore, but read 10 paragraphs per day to read what we should have been able to read in two paragraphs in one single day. And that's before reading the extra shit thrown in for word-count and all that other nonsense. I know it's going to be hard, but if we can just hold out for like 24 months, we will get exactly what we are looking for. Premium posting content, only under situations in which it makes sense, and for the same price: FREE. Meaningful content won't be removed from posts and added as replies later, because the economics of doing that won't pan out. But if we continue to read all this bullshit like we have been, then our enjoyment of this community, not to mention our eyes are going to be Doomed to HELL.

A++ would read again.

[Wolfrider31]

Whoa there cowboy. Take a deep breath.

I find the idea of selling two versions of the game (one with next to nothing, one complete) an interesting one. I've never fully completed a GT game before, so the idea of getting a version of it I might fully complete for a lot less money appeals to me. Would I ever pay for any of the extra stuff? Probably not. But knowing I could if I ever feel I need more doesn't bother me.

(I have heard that GT *will* come as two versions, although I don't remember where I heard that unfortunately...)

Paying to unlock stuff doesn't bother me either. In fact it kind of irks me sometimes that I've already *paid* for the stuff I've not yet unlocked in some of my games. Getting everything at once and not paying for something I'll never see anyway doesn't seem so bad.

As a consumer it's up to us to decide what works best, but don't dismiss a new idea until you've seen it in action and have either benefitted or been burned by it.

You're such a plant. Getting a little cash from EA on the side huh? Yeah, I'm on to you. ;)

The Gran Turismo HD thing might be a dated reference. As far as I know it's not even being released stateside anymore. As far as paying to unlock stuff, I think that's silly. Number one, you have cheat codes that can do that. If you really don't want to go through the hassle of getting something why not just break the game using codes? Why would you be comfortable paying twice for the same content. (Once for the stuff on the disc, and another to actually play it). But that's a different story entirely; as long as the choice is there fine. If people want to burn their money I have no beef.

But hold on. What happens when companies start getting irked by people accessing this content for free using cheat codes? Do I smell some RIAA style tactics?

And I'm not talking about microtransactions in general, I'm simply talking about the concept of splitting what would normally be a whole game into separate parts that have to be bought. I can't for the life of me think of ANY benefit to the consumer on that front, yet it's being discussed.

Again, I'm not talking about extras (which I'm largely ok with, assuming a decent price).

[AlphaNerd01]

I think I know where we're heading. Consoles are going to be replaced by dollar-activated machines in all of our living rooms. Eventually we'll be using singles faster than lonely single men at a nudey bar! The end is near! Repent your gaming sins! Play your favorite games before it's too late!

No, but seriously, I don't really mind micro-transactions, only because I think that the only time people do these things is when they really like the game they're playing. I didn't pay for the extra content on more than half my games, because I just didn't feel I needed to. Am I the only one? I didn't think my Xbox Live dashboard having a Viva Pinata theme was worth the 200 points or whatever it is. It's just plain silly, and I think most gamers understand that. But if there someone out there willing to pay for it, then why not?

[Joker T]

The main thing that pisses me off is when developers say that downloadable content will be available the first day the game is released. No excuse for that, it should be in the game. If it is awhile down the road than I really have no problem with it.

But when it comes down to it, if you don't want to download content than don't it's really that simple.

[jajaja]

But when it comes down to it, if you don't want to download content than don't it's really that simple.

Exactly :) If people pay for it, it means that they want it so there is no reason to change it. When there is a demand there is always a supply and people are paying for downloadable content now which means that there is a demand for it and the developers will contunie to supply it.

Btw, what is it with all of this Anthony1 bashing? What have he actually done? I know he write long rants sometimes, but whats wrong with that? Or have he done something horrible here that im not aware of? I thought this was a place, a community where people respected eachother. What i see now is actually pure bullying. Suprises me that the admins doesnt do anything about this. I would if i could.

[tholly]

RGB cables cost more than $5.......

[s1lence]

RGB cables cost more than $5.......


Oh snap, his gaming is REALLY over then

[Melf]

I have no problem with downloadable content, and it's a great feature on XBL. The extra quests for Oblivion were more than worth what they cost, and the extra cars for PGR3, and all the other goodies they offer is something I look forward to. As it's been said here earlier, none of what's offered is obligatory. You can play each of the games without ever having to download anything. I don't see what all the hysteria is about.

[Hypnotuba]

Yep :) For me personaly it doesnt really matter, dont see it as a problem. I would probly "never" buy extra stuff like that since i hardly play any new games and i really dont get into those i play. But i wouldnt mind paying like $5 for an extra map or mission for a game i really enjoy. Its not like you pay $5 every day, maybe its once a month or so. I can spare that ;)

Quite true. And if the extra maps or whatever are made available several months after the game was released, it would at least feel like they weren't withheld from the physical release of the game.

And while I think $5 for an old NES game or whatever is too much, as someone mentioned, that's not for people in this forum who might already own those games. Someone who hadn't played those games in years might be excited about "only" having to pay $5 to revisit a bit of their youth.




Btw, what is it with all of this Anthony1 bashing? What have he actually done?

Well, I mean he's passionate about gaming, which is exactly what you don't want around a. . .video gaming. . . .forum. Hmm. :)

I visit here sporadically, so I'm sort of at a loss as well. It's not like he comes in and craps on other people's threads, is it? I don't really know. If you don't like his style, don't read his threads. To me, it seems like he's usually got something to say, even if you have to read something long and over-the-top to get to it. ;)

[Bronty-2]

A++ would read again.


Make that AAAAAAAAA++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Post of the year.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Half Japanese FTW!

I'm not into microtransactions myself. I'm not into paying to play a game that I have already bought. (WoW is a no no, though I love Blizzard.) Xbox Live subscription charge is the ONLY reason I didn't buy and Xbox and have not yet bought a 360. However, I will pay for certain things. VC games on Wii? Yeppers, as long as the cost is worth the game. I'm not gonna buy SMB AS A DOWNLOAD for $5. No way in hell. I paid $20 for the GBA SMB and I can play that on my DS, GBA or GC. Bottom line it comes down to what people want and how much they are willing to pay for it.

Microtrans market is still in it's infancy and there will be alot of stumbles along the way. I belive, given time, microtrans will come into their own and eventually be all; viable, profitable and worthwhile in the eyes of most consumers.

[bangtango]

3do had Return Fire and that had an expansion map pack.. and the 3do is still alive and well.

Great, I'm on the way to Walmart to pick one up now!

[Soviet Conscript]

i have to say i think anthony makes a good and valid point. i'm kinda suprised you guys are bashing him so much. ok, yhea maybe he is being overdramatic and a bit of an alarmist but i get what hes saying.

in none alarmist tones here i beleive hes pointing out that unile some expansions to games where after the product is out on the market a developer may go back to it and say "i just had a great idea to improve the game lets do this" that develpoers may purposely hold back content they had done already at realease but thought "lets not incude this or that cause we can make more money selling it in peices". i'm a fan of expansions as i'm a big PC gamer but PC game expansions usually are going to be hard copies of a good deal of material. and things like the horse armor for oblivion or little crap usually gets released free in patches. instead i guess the fear is all these little things are going to be purposely withheld so we can be nickle and dimed to death. i can see what hes getting at. i don't want to see developers realease substandard games at full price and then you have 100 microtransactions that eatch cost a few bucks, its a rip off

yhea you can say the consumer will decide this buy just not buying into the whole microtranaction deal. although this is very true i would really rather not put my faith in the consumer trends of a civilization that pays for bottled water.

[Richter Belmount]

Im sticking to classic gaming if everything just becomes a downloadable , Ive read stories on kotaku that some companies are just planning someday to have the disc die out and have it all for download rather than you going out to buy a physical copy of the game thats the only thing that bothers me . I would rather have a physical copy of the game so that the fact I feel I like have complete ownership and if im not satisfied with my purchase I can go to ebay or the store and resell it. Course the scenario can only happen if it suceeds .

The only way I think downloadable content can warrant a resonable purchase if the download is for a popular game that has been out for a very long time , and its a actual expansion of the game . However using points to unlocks cheats , cut off areas of the game is just a low blow below the belt to the consumer. If Im going to spend $60 dollars I dont want to imagine paying a single penny more to have the rest of the game , expansions and real downloads are welcome on the other hand.

[smork]

Great, I'm on the way to Walmart to pick one up now!

Snag me a Star Control 2 while yer at it, willya?

I don't think microtransactions are that big a deal. If a game makes me pay more to finish it, I won't buy it. I don't buy extras I can only keep on my console, I prefer getting special edition boxes, posters, crap like that. A new skin for something? Meh.

I would prolly buy a Gears of War expansion pack, though, just as I would if it were sold as a normal game in a brick-and-mortar.

[Nature Boy]

You're such a plant. Getting a little cash from EA on the side huh? Yeah, I'm on to you. ;)

You mean like a ficus? Feed me Seymour!


The Gran Turismo HD thing might be a dated reference. As far as I know it's not even being released stateside anymore. As far as paying to unlock stuff, I think that's silly. Number one, you have cheat codes that can do that. If you really don't want to go through the hassle of getting something why not just break the game using codes? Why would you be comfortable paying twice for the same content. (Once for the stuff on the disc, and another to actually play it). But that's a different story entirely; as long as the choice is there fine. If people want to burn their money I have no beef.

First, I'm *way* too lazy to use cheat codes. Not all games have 'in-game' cheat codes anyway, which means I'd have to pay for a cheating device, which is money I'm *not* going to be parting with anytime soon.

Also, unless I'm mistaken you're not paying for something twice. The content isn't going to be sitting on your disc waiting to be unlocked. It's a downloadable thing that sits on your hard drive.

I wonder if you missed my point. I'm saying that if I'm not going to unlock the stuff anyway, not paying for content I'll never use is just fine with me.



But hold on. What happens when companies start getting irked by people accessing this content for free using cheat codes? Do I smell some RIAA style tactics?

Like I said, I don't think the content *can* be unlocked using cheat codes. This is a downloadable transaction, like buying an mp3 from iTunes. It's not already sitting on the game disc.


And I'm not talking about microtransactions in general, I'm simply talking about the concept of splitting what would normally be a whole game into separate parts that have to be bought. I can't for the life of me think of ANY benefit to the consumer on that front, yet it's being discussed.

I wouldn't worry too much about that happening, as I'm pretty sure the possibility that you'd purchase the first part (for, say, $20) and then never purchase another part again would scare off *lots* of developers. They want your entire $50 up front. All we're talking about here is paying, say, $5 for the option to add extra tracks to a racing game, or for an extra mission not part of the regular game (like the extra Splinter Cell mission made available for the first game which, again, was not 'unlockable' by using cheat codes, it was downloadable content)

[zerohero]

Dreamcast started all this way back in 99, its nothing new. I wouldn't worry until next gen, and they announce something like " all games will be downloaded etc" , then I would get worried.

[Chadt74]

From what I've read (more from an investment side) these transactions that they are talking about is more like being able to buy a really cool looking sword for a buck or getting a new dress. In the end I agree that a game should be released 100% and if you love some game it would be cool to get extra life out of it for a few bucks.

I mean take a game like Manhunt, I'd never pay for a few additional quest but if I was into that game I'd pay a buck or 2 for a new level.

Like ads in games it really depends how the game companies execute.

[exit]

Very interesting, but whats next? The selling of cheaply made videogames at Burgerki......OH MY GOD WE'RE DOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!11111

Seriously tho, they've been selling $50 add-ons/expansion packs for years, so I really don't see what the big deal is. Just look at the bright side tho, instead of paying $50+ for an expansion that you really just want a few things from, you'll only pay a few dollars for the one or two things you'd actually use.

[Hwj_Chim]

wow that is a lot of shit to read. I would like to say I will never go online with a console and the day that consoles require it is the day I stop buying them. I don't care about the extra crap and the fact that patches are coming out for console games now makes me very skiddish about buying new games. I left pc gaming because the games were getting very buggy and I hate dealing with patches. I see consoles going down this road.

[poieo]

But when it comes down to it, if you don't want to download content than don't it's really that simple.

It's not that simple at all. A very real, and very serious downside to the "don't like it, don't buy it" mindset is that it's entirely possibly for some perfectly good content to otherwise be unaccessable by people who have two braincells to rub together. In that case, the gaming experience is ultimately decided not by intelligent people trying to make the industry better, but instead by people who are greedy morons and by people who have more money than sense.

The simple fact is that the "don't like it, don't buy it" thing only works on a small, relatively more local scale. It completely falls apart where digital delivery is involved because a very bad decision can still be profitable enough just by being able to reach a very, very wide area of stupid people willing to pay for it. It's a very real expression of things being decided by the lowest common denominator. It's the same principle as the one behind spam, yet has that died out? No. Why? Because not enough people don't buy what's advertised in spam? No, it's because not enough people are getting up in arms about it.

It's all so stupid, and it's largely because of the pussy attitude you have. It goes in a loop, like a broken record. First it's "Ah, who cares. Don't make noise, just don't buy it". Then when someone does make noise, the first line of rationale that invariably comes up is "Well, no one made any noise, so it must be good!". What, you expect the beancounters behind this shit to actually know what they're doing without it being pounded into their heads loud and clear? What planet are you living on?

[Anthony1]

It's not that simple at all. A very real, and very serious downside to the "don't like it, don't buy it" mindset is that it's entirely possibly for some perfectly good content to otherwise be unaccessable by people who have two braincells to rub together. In that case, the gaming experience is ultimately decided not by intelligent people trying to make the industry better, but instead by people who are greedy morons and by people who have more money than sense.

The simple fact is that the "don't like it, don't buy it" thing only works on a small, relatively more local scale. It completely falls apart where digital delivery is involved because a very bad decision can still be profitable enough just by being able to reach a very, very wide area of stupid people willing to pay for it. It's a very real expression of things being decided by the lowest common denominator. It's the same principle as the one behind spam, yet has that died out? No. Why? Because not enough people don't buy what's advertised in spam? No, it's because not enough people are getting up in arms about it.

It's all so stupid, and it's largely because of the pussy attitude you have. It goes in a loop, like a broken record. First it's "Ah, who cares. Don't make noise, just don't buy it". Then when someone does make noise, the first line of rationale that invariably comes up is "Well, no one made any noise, so it must be good!". What, you expect the beancounters behind this shit to actually know what they're doing without it being pounded into their heads loud and clear? What planet are you living on?


Word Skippy. I agree with your take. It's not simply a matter of vote with your wallets. Too many retards out there that shouldn't have a vote are voting, and voting stupidly. Gaming as we know and love it is doomed to hell, and unfortunatley I think it might just be a runaway train, and we can't stop it.

One thing that I will take comfort in, is the fact that I still have my huge library of SNES games, and Genesis games and PS1 games, etc, etc. and even if modern gaming goes to hell in a handbasket, I can always turn to my retro fare. Well, at least I can turn to it as long as my old consoles are still working.

[MrSmiley381]

I buy Virtual Console games I already own. You know why? It makes it easier to bring games around with me. Plus, Treasure put up Gunstar Heroes. If Treasure makes enough money, they can make new, original games.

Or toss Sin & Punishment on Virtual Console. Hell, that'd be worth $10. And I'd still track down a copy of the original.

[poieo]

Case in point.

[Arcade Antics]

video gaming as we know and love it, is in SERIOUS DANGER!

Well, that all depends on your definition of "we," now doesn't it?

There are lots of folks who think video gaming is better than ever. There are lots of folks who think gaming has sucked horseradish since the demise of Pong. And there are lots of folks who have opinions somewhere in between.

Nobody's right, and nobody's wrong. It's not better now, it's not worse now. It's different. Video gaming is in no danger at all.

[poieo]

Heeeeeyyyyy maaaaaaan, like, everybody's riiiiiiiiight! Like, you can't judge anything, ever, because that would, like, take too much effort! Things can't possibly go horribly wrong like they have with the music and movie industries! I mean, those are obviously fucked because they're headed by the greedy morons involved with the RIAA and the MPAA, but, like, nothing can ever go wrong! If something doesn't completely melt down overnight, it's, like never going to get worse!

[Arcade Antics]

Heeeeeyyyyy maaaaaaan, like, everybody's riiiiiiiiight! Like, you can't judge anything, ever, because that would, like, take too much effort! Things can't possibly go horribly wrong like they have with the music and movie industries! I mean, those are obviously fucked because they're headed by the greedy morons involved with the RIAA and the MPAA, but, like, nothing can ever go wrong! If something doesn't completely melt down overnight, it's, like never going to get worse!
LOL

Way to miss the point.

[poieo]

You can't judge that.

[ChaosKidz]

I have to agree gaming is getting more and more expensive and the fact that parents are preventing kids from playing the fun games like Grand Theft Auto or Halo so there will be less and less violent video games that give us the rush and the thrill but soon it will be non exisistant but shouldnt we ban tv as well cause its just as boring, i personally think that violent video games has dramatically brought down the murders and violence in the world so do whatever the fuck you want to the games cause im going to try my hardest to bring those goddamn rules and bans i wont follow them...

[Oobgarm]

Late to party.

Regardless of how you view the current position of the gaming industry and/or culture, there is always someone who is on the exact opposite side of the issue. Such as Anthony1's death knell cries, and my own view of 'the more, the better'.

Bitching and moaning about things that are optional downloads is stupid. Once a company sends out a $50-$60 disc containing nothing but basic, unusable-in-its-current-state code and requires the end user to download any and all core essentials to translate that code into a working game, then I'll cry foul.

1. You bitch about Need for Speed: Carbon. If you carefully read each download's description, you'll see that all but one of those downloads is attainable by actually PLAYING THE GAME. They're up for download so lazy asses(or unskilled players) can get the best vehicle straight off and destroy all comers. It's not the way I'd play it, personally, but to each their own. That one unattainable-via-gameplay download gives the standard edition of the game all of the in-game options and goodies that come with the Collector's Edition. Not a bad upgrade if you want the CE but are unable to find it. If they would have put that up for NFS: Most Wanted, I would have bought it.

2. You bitch about Lumines Live. While I can understand a bit of dissent on this one, as the release was botched, you are getting a fully playable version of the game when you download it. Your perception of that download's value versus the amount of content delivered might cause you to chastize the game's dev team and publisher on an internet message board, but many others would be happy just playing Lumines on their TVs at home. And no other download is required to play the game, unless you're looking for more content or extra modes that you'll actually use, like multiplayer...which is a bit subjective since I personally view Lumines as more of a single-player experience.

3. You complain about themes and other trivial stuff like userpics and UNO deck themes. NO ONE IS TWISTING YOUR ARM, OR ANYONE ELSE'S ARM TO BUY THESE THINGS. If people want to spend their money on neat things like theme decks or want to customize their 360's dashboard with images from their favorite game, then why deny them that? And why can't the providing company profit off of it? Isn't that how business works?

I welcome a future where small things and extra content is offered alongside a retail title(or a downloaded one). I'd even spring for a game where you get the complete single-player game itself, but pay to download each extra mode, like multiplayer and whatnot...provided that the sum of all the parts does not have a total cost higher than that of a regular game's MSRP. No point in paying for what you aren't going to use, if that business model is ever adopted(unlikely).

It all basically comes down to perception of value. I'm not here to extol anything, just pointing out that your argument is very close-minded. If people want to spend their money a certain way, there's no sense in taking that ability away from them. Even if the 'lowest common denominator' is determining the path gaming takes, enjoy what you can about it, and stop wasting your time complaining about things you cannot and will not change. Getting a group of hardcore and semi-core gamers to band together against microtransactions is not like some small coup overthrowing a government. You're up against the main thing that drives every economy, business, and most people's lives: money. You can take away all of us, and gaming would still be successful(albeit not quite as profitable) thanks to the overwhelming mass of casual and other gaming-minded folk that outnumbers us a thousand-fold. You'd do well to enjoy what's 'now', or play the retro stuff that you like.

And I realize that I am contributing to the downfall and eventual implosion of the DP forums with my long-winded post. My apologies.

[poieo]

So, chalk another one up for the camp of apathetic, nihilistic, defeatist pussies. Thanks for your circular logic of "You could try to do something, but you can't, so don't. Because you could, but can't."

[Daria]

So, chalk another one up for the camp of apathetic, nihilistic, defeatist pussies. Thanks for your circular logic of "You could try to do something, but you can't, so don't. Because you could, but can't."

You know you were making some good points earlier in the thread. But then you decided to forgo actual debate for acting like a complete turd muncher. Why don't you contribute something besides insults to the conversation? Because I'm pretty such no one cares what you have to say when it's said with that attitude. I know you lost me.

[8-bitNesMan]

Late to party.

Regardless of how you view the current position of the gaming industry and/or culture, there is always someone who is on the exact opposite side of the issue. Such as Anthony1's death knell cries, and my own view of 'the more, the better'.

Bitching and moaning about things that are optional downloads is stupid. Once a company sends out a $50-$60 disc containing nothing but basic, unusable-in-its-current-state code and requires the end user to download any and all core essentials to translate that code into a working game, then I'll cry foul.

1. You bitch about Need for Speed: Carbon. If you carefully read each download's description, you'll see that all but one of those downloads is attainable by actually PLAYING THE GAME. They're up for download so lazy asses(or unskilled players) can get the best vehicle straight off and destroy all comers. It's not the way I'd play it, personally, but to each their own. That one unattainable-via-gameplay download gives the standard edition of the game all of the in-game options and goodies that come with the Collector's Edition. Not a bad upgrade if you want the CE but are unable to find it. If they would have put that up for NFS: Most Wanted, I would have bought it.

2. You bitch about Lumines Live. While I can understand a bit of dissent on this one, as the release was botched, you are getting a fully playable version of the game when you download it. Your perception of that download's value versus the amount of content delivered might cause you to chastize the game's dev team and publisher on an internet message board, but many others would be happy just playing Lumines on their TVs at home. And no other download is required to play the game, unless you're looking for more content or extra modes that you'll actually use, like multiplayer...which is a bit subjective since I personally view Lumines as more of a single-player experience.

3. You complain about themes and other trivial stuff like userpics and UNO deck themes. NO ONE IS TWISTING YOUR ARM, OR ANYONE ELSE'S ARM TO BUY THESE THINGS. If people want to spend their money on neat things like theme decks or want to customize their 360's dashboard with images from their favorite game, then why deny them that? And why can't the providing company profit off of it? Isn't that how business works?

I welcome a future where small things and extra content is offered alongside a retail title(or a downloaded one). I'd even spring for a game where you get the complete single-player game itself, but pay to download each extra mode, like multiplayer and whatnot...provided that the sum of all the parts does not have a total cost higher than that of a regular game's MSRP. No point in paying for what you aren't going to use, if that business model is ever adopted(unlikely).

It all basically comes down to perception of value. I'm not here to extol anything, just pointing out that your argument is very close-minded. If people want to spend their money a certain way, there's no sense in taking that ability away from them. Even if the 'lowest common denominator' is determining the path gaming takes, enjoy what you can about it, and stop wasting your time complaining about things you cannot and will not change. Getting a group of hardcore and semi-core gamers to band together against microtransactions is not like some small coup overthrowing a government. You're up against the main thing that drives every economy, business, and most people's lives: money. You can take away all of us, and gaming would still be successful(albeit not quite as profitable) thanks to the overwhelming mass of casual and other gaming-minded folk that outnumbers us a thousand-fold. You'd do well to enjoy what's 'now', or play the retro stuff that you like.

And I realize that I am contributing to the downfall and eventual implosion of the DP forums with my long-winded post. My apologies.

This post made the most sense of any thus far in this thread. Well said friend!

[Anthony1]

I'd even spring for a game where you get the complete single-player game itself, but pay to download each extra mode, like multiplayer and whatnot...provided that the sum of all the parts does not have a total cost higher than that of a regular game's MSRP.


Yeah, exactly. Companies like EA would never dream of charging us twice the MSRP when you add up the sum of all the downloadable parts.

now, would they?

[Aswald]

But hasn't this sort of thing been going on in most respects for years?

When I was young- say, 11, the year "Star Wars" first came out- when someone found employment- and it was much easier back then- it was not at all unreasonable to expect a health care plan, pensions, decent wage, etc. It just came with the territory. Today? It's something right out of "Dilbert," for the most part. If I brought back any of you younger members to that time, well, I might just as well bring you to the planet Mongo. In other words, we are working more and more, but getting less and less.

Look at satellite/cable television. When I was a kid, you were lucky to get more than 4 or 5 broadcast channels. Except for PBS, you expected commercials. Why? They were a necessary evil; who do you think paid for the programming? This was why the more popular shows could demand more from the product companies; more people were watching, therefore, more people would see your ad. You got the programs, the television people got the money, the ad people got advertising space.
But with satellite/cable, YOU ARE PAYING TO GET THOSE CHANNELS, BUT YOU ARE ALSO GETTING THOSE COMMERCIALS! It's the worst of both worlds, especially since the amount of commercial time/hour is greater than it was before the deregulation frenzy of the Reagan Era. Hell, you get CGI-commercials for other programs DURING THE $%#@&!! PROGRAMS!

I could give other examples, but you get the idea.

So the question isn't "why are the game companies starting to do this," but rather "if they do, are you not going to go along with it?" They are well aware that the answer- based on everything that has been going on for the past 27 years- will be YES, THEY WILL. They have absolutely no reason to believe that gamers will seriously rebel in any way, and every reason to believe that they can just get more money out of it, without any reprecussions.