Are ROMS worth the trouble?

[cessnaace]

I've just started collecting ROMS, this after years of fighting the urge. Right now I'm concentrating on SMS ROMS, which I consider acceptable as I already have quite a collection of SMS games on carts and cards. The emulator that I'm using, Dega v.1.09, works great on my PC. So far, NONE of the Jaguar emulators that I've tried will work on my PC. I've tried 5 of them! Maybe it's my Firefox, I don't know.

Anyway, how do the rest of you feel about ROMS? I refuse to pay for them (that wouldn't even be legal, I don't think). I've found some Japanese Sega System 3 ROMS (SMS), and some for games from Brazil and Europe. They play fine.

Mark

[ecresto]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2832/arcadesetuptj7.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arcadesetuptj7.jpg)


i love roms especially MAME . i have an xarcade right in front of my 32 inch lcd to play my favorite arcade games . also roms are good to check out games that maybe you have never played . also they have adapters to many diff. controllers so you can hook them up through a usb port . this makes it better than using a keyboard or a generic usb controller .

[Ze_ro]

So far, NONE of the Jaguar emulators that I've tried will work on my PC. I've tried 5 of them! Maybe it's my Firefox, I don't know.
Though I don't have any first-hand experience, I've heard that none of the Jaguar emulators out there are really worth using. Emulation of obscure systems pretty much always lags behind the more popular systems.


Anyway, how do the rest of you feel about ROMS? I refuse to pay for them (that wouldn't even be legal, I don't think). I've found some Japanese Sega System 3 ROMS (SMS), and some for games from Brazil and Europe. They play fine.
I think there actually are some places where you can legally buy ROMS... at least, there USED to be... not sure if they're still around anymore.

Emulators are great for those ultra-rare games and prototypes that you'd never get to play on real hardware... also great for things like arcade games, where owning the real thing is somewhat impractical. It's also nice to be able to do crazy things like playing NES games on my Dreamcast, or for playing Atari 2600 games on the go via my GP2X.

--Zero

[Daria]

I love ROMs for translated games. Nothing like emulating something that's otherwise impossible to own for real. Reproductions not withstanding. They're also great for research. Since I collect a single genre I like downloading the games and trying them out to see whether or not I need hunt for them later.

They're also cheaper during dryspells. If I find I go a period of time without a whole lot of surplus funds for games, I'll switch gears and focus on emulation for awhile. Generates the same thrill of finding something new, but without the monies invested.

[50s Brawler]

Anyway, how do the rest of you feel about ROMS? I refuse to pay for them (that wouldn't even be legal, I don't think). I've found some Japanese Sega System 3 ROMS (SMS), and some for games from Brazil and Europe. They play fine.
Mark

I only collect/play ROMS for the arcade stuff, since finding every PCB I want of particular games is either damn near impossible, or excessively expensive beyond my Ca$h Money and procured Money Order means. I actually had to put away my three credit cards so I wouldn't use them and continue getting into debt the way most of America is it would seem. As for console stuff though, I use emulation/ROMS for trying out games and after about 20 minutes or so I'll decide if it's something

I want to invest time, money and an auction snipe on Ebay for to add into my collection of games. I don't see anything wrong with ROMS if one isn't going to burn them onto a DVD-R and then try to profit off of them by selling something that isn't their's, and often times it's the only way to play a game. The arcade scene I evolved with is dead, except for maybe in Japan and a few other places... but it'll never be what it was, and I think emulation is a damn good alternative to not being able to play the old arcade greats. Not to mention screen grabs of your fave games are great to have. :guitar:

[swlovinist]

I used to be very anit-rom, but after playing a SMS boot disc on my dreamcast, I changed my tune. Some roms play great for some systems, others do not. Like said above, obscure systems tend to get left out. The ones that had alot of great games on them, well that is Rom paradise. I would also have to agree with MAME. MAME makes playing Roms totally worth it.

[Technosis]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2832/arcadesetuptj7.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arcadesetuptj7.jpg)


i love roms especially MAME . i have an xarcade right in front of my 32 inch lcd to play my favorite arcade games . also roms are good to check out games that maybe you have never played

Mame rocks! I consider the distribution of roms and the development of emulators one of the biggest things to hit this hobby. I remember years back when I first loaded Sparcade (an older emu) and was amazed to find a pixel perfect version of Galaxian. Of course MAME followed, and is an incredible program - FOR FREE no less! Many games are emulated near perfect. As an example I have the coin-op Spatterhouse, and after playing it on MAME I can say that there isn't an appeciable difference - MAME is that close.

As others have mentioned, I think where the roms really shine is in be able to check out the rare stuff ahead of time. It's nice to be able to pre-screen classic games for playability before you go though the trouble of hunting one down. In some ways playing the roms on an emulator can be superior to the real thing. I've played a few shooters that were crippled by slowdown on the real SNES, but play fast and smooth on an emulator.

So yeah, I'm a big fan of ROMs

[mojofltr]

...I've heard that none of the Jaguar emulators out there are really worth using.
--Zero

Here is one that runs Tempest 2000 decently, but not much else:
http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?t=41691&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[Hwj_Chim]

project tempest v.95 runs the few games i have and runs them at full speed. I think the emulation is a good thing. It saves me the space needed for multiple systems hooked up to the tv.

[roushimsx]

I love emulation and, by gum, I love ROMs. Like Daria, I downright LOVE playing translated games.

Virtual Jaguar & Project Tempest (http://www.atariage.com/Jaguar/emulation/index.html?SystemID=JAGUAR) ain't so bad if you want to give 'em a shot.

For snagging ROMs, I like using the usenet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet) (fast, no uploading, anonymous, etc) and then use a ROM manager to handle the nitty gritty of verifying the validity of the dumps and moving them to their assigned directories.

If you're playing with arcade emulation, the only solution is clrmame pro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet). There's others that work, but nothing that works remotely as well. For SNES I like to use NSRT (http://nsrt.edgeemu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=602) and for pretty much everything else I just stick with using Offline List (http://offlinelist.free.fr/). Configure OfflineList with the paths to your emulators and you've got yourself a nice little frontend, too (with title screen and ingame screenshots).

For SMS emulation, my personal fav is Meka (http://www.smspower.org/meka/), but Dega ain't bad. Lots of dandy SMS emulators out there and you'd be just peachy using Kega Fusion (http://www.eidolons-inn.net/tiki-index.php?page=Kega) so that you can smoothly move right into Genesis/SegaCD/32x emulation alongside SMS emulation. :)

[goemon]

I only use roms to play games like ESP Ra De and Dangun Feveron that have never seen a console port. Otherwise, I like the feeling of ownership that comes with having the physical disc or cart, rather than a virtual copy of it. It's the same with music -- I like owning the CD's, tapes and records, not just the MP3's.

[Snapple]

I wouldn't recommend using emulation for Jaguar. That system doesn't have any good emulators out for it, really.

Systems that have been pretty much perfected by emulation include NES, SNES, GB/GBC/GBA, SMS, Genesis, PS1, and most of the popular really retro systems (Atari, Coleco, Intellivision, and so on).

MAME is excellent for the games it is compatible with. Because of the nature of MAME, it can't simply be made to run all arcade games past, present, and future, with a single, simple code. It has to be continually improved to incorprate more and more games, which it is all the time.

I've heard good things about a particular Japanese Saturn emulator, but it requires a really powerful computer (unlike PS1 emulation, which can run easily on even slower computer). Still improvements to be made in this field.

So I would stay away from Jaguar roms. Almost anything up through and including the 16-bit era can be run without any fuss whatsoever, even for a person who has zero experience with emulators. Very good place to cut your teeth on emulators. So easy, a caveman could do it.


As for my philosophical stance on emulators, it's pretty much the same place I stand on mp3s. I don't use emulators as a substitute for playing the real thing. I use both emulators, and I collect games so I can play them on my tv as well. With music, I have songs on my computer, yet I also still buy CDs. Same thing.

I like the natural feeling of playing games on my tv, but I also know that roms are a necessary "evil" sometimes. To play rare games, or to play games you don't like enough to spend money on, or to play hacked/translated games, or to play arcade games at home... There are many good uses.

[Y0u]

While they may be illegal, I have no ethical problems with them since I only have so much to spend on games, and I'll spend that much regardless of using ROMs; therefore, no game company is losing money. Now granted, playing a ROM of something just isn't the same as the real thing.

[jajaja]

What do you mean with "worth the trouble" ?

I like ROMS myself. I use ROMS sometimes when im about to take screenshots of games or try them before i buy eventualy buy it. My favorite ROMS must be MAME. Getting the chance to play the good old arcade games :)

[BocoDragon]

While they may be illegal, I have no ethical problems with them since I only have so much to spend on games, and I'll spend that much regardless of using ROMs; therefore, no game company is losing money. Now granted, playing a ROM of something just isn't the same as the real thing.

I feel exactly the same way.

I'm such a collector that if I have downloaded a game, it is because of a good reason, and no company will be losing out on any money because of it.

Reasons for emulation:

1. It is import only, and the import version wouldn't be of any use to me being in another language anyway. Sure, I'll pay to import a title that doesn't require me to understand a foreign language, like a fighter, but if, say, Square can't be bothered to translate FFV SNES version, then I will happily play a fan-translated ROM (and I've bought every domestic release of it since, so no money lost for Square, except for what they did not provide themselves: the original version). Gotta love those fan translation projects!

2. It is arcade only, no home version available or poor home versions available. I love having these arcade games available to play on MAME, and most of them will never make it home again. For those that do, I often purchase the product (such as Street Fighter Alpha Anthology), but even then it's nice to have the arcade versions with "insert coin", the original quirks, etc. I might own TMNT4 on SNES, but the arcade game is a different experience! And where are home versions of the Simpsons arcade game, etc?

3. It is for the purposes of putting old games on a new device. I collect NES games like a fiend, but the only way I can put these games on my PSP is to download the rom. I just bought a NES cart yesterday that I already had on my PSP. No one would lose any money (except for Nintendo and the VC! But it's perfectly legal to buy carts instead of VC games, of course!)

This is why it is so awesome that the PS1 emulator has been cracked on PSP. I can actually just rip my own legitimate games to play on the thing. I'm sure Sony would like to charge me for these games again, but if I already own them, it definitely falls under "fair use".

I suppose a MAME cabinet is a unique device as well. Even if you have the means and the money for 100s of arcade games, maybe you'd rather condense them into one machine for your living room?

4. This one is tricky, but rare games can often be justified through emulation. I just bought Valkarie Profile Lenneth for PSP. I want the original home version. It's totally rare. My girlfriend has a CD-R of the game, which I do use occasionally. The thing is, even with this evil backup version.. I still intend to pay for the original release on eBay one day.

Yes, I know not everyone is as much of a collector as I am (at least anywhere but here), but as I say, no one is losing out on any money on myself emulating a game.

[Haoie]

ROMS are great, especially for older imports, and obscure stuff like that. Go ROMs.

[exit]

There is nothing wrong with emulation at all, because eventually all the carts/cds/consoles/ect will stop working and emulation helps preserve them. There has been a lot of controversy over the years about roms, but in the end it really doesn't matter.

[rcgamer]

I like the idea of roms and emulators for older systems. I think it crosses the line by a wide margin though when people are downloading nintendo DS games and using them with emulators. I like the spirit of emu devs like mames. They aren't trying to do anything illegal , just making it possible for us to play arcade games we probably would never see again. The devs that attempt to emulate the newer systems I don't like. They say they are doing it for educatioal purposes but they know full well that people are just going to use them to play downloaded games. There has to be a line somewhere.

I agree with some of the other guys to, that playing on emus may be good for getting a blast of nostalgia but they just aren't as fun as the real thing.

[Arasoi]

Emulation definetely has it's place in the scheme of things, especially in boosting the popularity of older systems and games in the last decade or so.

I have an older MSI low profile machine connected to one of those old Gateway Destination 27 inch CRT computer monitors to play arcade beat em ups with friends on a big screen. For controllers, I have adapted NES, SNES, or PSX via USB or 25 pin parallel port adapters, set up for games depending on how many buttons are used.

Without emulation, I couldnt have played great games that we never got, like Denjin Makai 2, Metamoqesters. Or how about games like Punisher, Cadillacs and Dinosuars, Xmen (konami), and Alien vs Predator that were classics, but will probably not get home releases due to licensing shennanigans?

[GuyinGA]

I like ROMs for the older systems....the newer systems on the other hand, like the PS2 and X-Box, forget about it. Just buy the game.

[CosmicMonkey]

The whole thing regarding playing arcade games that never got a home console port doesn't wash with me. So just because the game was never released on a home console, it's ok to d/l it for free? Nah.

There are many people out there with Cabs in their house, or who use Superguns on their home TVs. You want to play Armed Police Battrider or CPS2 Alien vs Predator? Cool, go buy the PCBs. Can't afford the PCBs? Unlucky, but that doesn't mean you should steal them. There's many thousands of other games you can play to pass the time. If you want it that badly, get the cash out.

I'm not totally against ROMz, as otherwise I wouldn't have Propeller Arena, Half Life DC, StarFox2 etc. But if there is the possibility of being able to buy the original game, you really should.

[cessnaace]

Thanks for all the great replies!

I still haven't got any Jaguar emulators to work on my PC. I get my ROMS free from ROM World. I tried another site too while ROM World's server was non-responsive. One or the other warned of bugs with emulators and Mozilla Firefox. I HAVE to have Firefox, as a forum site I frequent won't work correctly without it.

I also tried Deka v.10, which refuses to load. Keka v.0.04b works, but there's an odd jitter in the video. I tried switching my display to 16 bit as the program suggests, but that didn't help. And it's strange, as v.1.09 of Deka works great (and is very stable).

One problem with some of the ROMS that I've downloaded from ROM World is that approx. 10% have only a blank screen when I go to run them. I don't know why.

For Atari 2600 emulation on my PC I'm using StellaX, which works fine. The thing is, the files are so tiny that they download in a micro-second, even with my dialup connection. LOL!

I refuse to pay for ROMS, so no one is out any money at Nintendo or Sega (or whoever). And, I still buy games at the same rate as before (as someone else said). ROMS (for me) are just another way to play the games I want. I don't buy ROMS. I won't sell them. I won't even trade them. And, I don't mess with ROMS for current systems. That's WAY wrong in my book.

Anyway, I'll shut up now and see what ya all say.


Mark

[roushimsx]

The devs that attempt to emulate the newer systems I don't like. They say they are doing it for educatioal purposes but they know full well that people are just going to use them to play downloaded games. There has to be a line somewhere.

I agree and disagree. While I agree that emulation of newer systems facilitates piracy in a vast majority of the cases, I also think that it's sometimes a superior alternative to "the real deal". The main case for that is emulation of portable systems, where you're suddenly able to play without worries of battery life, screen size, or controller comfort. Hell, you even get a fast forward button for games that otherwise were ruined by their insanely low rate of speed (oh Rebelstar Tactical Command, how I tried like hell to love you on your native hardware. It took emulation for our love to truly flourish!). Hell, I'll even emulate GBA/GB on my laptop when I travel just because I like having a decent sized screen to play on. Well that and the GBASP is uncomfortable as hell to hold.

That said, I do realize that a lot of people never bother to buy GBA games when they know they can just download them. Kind of makes me sad because quality stuff like Mazes of Fate doesn't really move when 99% of the people interested in playing it don't bother paying for it :(

Emulation of newer systems like the DS/PS2/Xbox/Gamecube is prohibitive enough that you can't really use it as a main means of piracy. Sure, you can play Disgaea via PCSX2 or maybe play Puzzle Bobble via a Gamecube emulator, but compatibility rates are low enough and system requirements are high enough that most of the pirates just mod their systems.

...and man, that's another can of worms. I love the freedom that system mods allow (run games from your hard drive for quicker load times! bypass region checks!), but good lord are they easily abused. Wish there'd be a nice compromise. For everything that they've done wrong with the PS3, at least Sony removed region codes and realized the potential for installing games to the HD. Baby steps!



I also tried Deka v.10, which refuses to load. Keka v.0.04b works, but there's an odd jitter in the video. I tried switching my display to 16 bit as the program suggests, but that didn't help. And it's strange, as v.1.09 works great (and is very stable).


The most recent Kega Fusion (http://www.eidolons-inn.net/tiki-index.php?page=Kega) is 3.51, so try giving the latest version a shot. 0.04b is hella old :) (nearly 5 years old!). For Dega (http://www.finalburn.com/dega/), 1.12 is the most recent, so you could give it a look-see if you got curious.

[bangtango]

ROMS are worth the trouble if you enjoy taking advantage of saving your game more often. Games that used to take the better part of a day to beat in one sitting can be "saved" and then picked up exactly where you left off.

A lot of people reading this consider that cheating. However, every game I've beaten as a ROM I also beat in its original format. So the way I see it, I've paid my dues.

Playing through a couple of Ninja Gaiden stages while waiting for a frozen pizza to cook and then being able to pick it up later that night or two days from now isn't a bad thing.

[diskoboy]

As an arcade collector, (downloadable) ROMS are a godsend. I use them constantly when troubleshooting my Bally/Midway machines.

[cessnaace]

The most recent Kega Fusion (http://www.eidolons-inn.net/tiki-index.php?page=Kega) is 3.51, so try giving the latest version a shot. 0.04b is hella old :) (nearly 5 years old!). For Dega (http://www.finalburn.com/dega/), 1.12 is the most recent, so you could give it a look-see if you got curious.

You're a genius! Kega Fusion 3.51 works great on my system! Mega thanks!!!


Mark

[Soviet Conscript]

well, i like roms but i just like haveing the hard copy of a game more. i generally don't emulate anything but the older systems and even then i only play the rom if i acually own the game. i like playing games on the original hardware and on a tv as opposed to sitting at a computer. it just feels alot better that way. there are 2 things i love roms for

1) translated games that were JP only
2) saves. i've recently stopped useing save states anywhere and just use them where you could save in the actual game to better create the old feel experence but i hate changeing battaries with old carts so this way i don't have to hassle with it.

i also don't play roms on a computer anymore. i just use my new SF7 and genisis flash cart to play them on the original systems. that way i use the original hardware and don't have to worry about loseing my saves.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

I love emulation. I even have everything set up to easily plug my laptop into my TV and stereo for emulation purposes (well also for movies and music, but sometimes emulation, too). But then I'm a big fan of piracy, too, which most people frown upon, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I do however draw the line at "collecting" ROMs. That's taking things a bit far, I think. They're files. When we start talking about "collecting" data, I'm scared. Use the ROMs as you need them, but don't collect them as if they were something of greater value than raw data.


...word is bondage...

[BocoDragon]

The whole thing regarding playing arcade games that never got a home console port doesn't wash with me. So just because the game was never released on a home console, it's ok to d/l it for free? Nah.

There are many people out there with Cabs in their house, or who use Superguns on their home TVs. You want to play Armed Police Battrider or CPS2 Alien vs Predator? Cool, go buy the PCBs. Can't afford the PCBs? Unlucky, but that doesn't mean you should steal them. There's many thousands of other games you can play to pass the time. If you want it that badly, get the cash out.

Games just aren't worth that much.

Supply and demand, right? The only reason that arcade games can sell for as much as they do, is because there is a demand for an investment where the owner can make money off the machine by putting it in a public place.

There would never be any such demand for a home game for hundreds of dollars. No company would ever expect "just the game" to ever sell for that much money, because no average consumer could afford it. They only sell arcade boards for that much money, so that businsses can invest for them and recoup their investments over time.

Legally of course, I have no right to a free arcade game under any circumstance. But no one ever expected me to pay hundreds of dollars to be able to own that game. If they had ever released a home version, it would have been 40 dollars... and they would have to spend extra money to make that home version!

IMO if a game is old, and there has never been a home version, they have essentially forgotten about it as far as making money off myself is concerned. They would never charge me, a home user, thousands of dollars to play this game, especially since I have no intention of using it to make money off other people. They would have charged me $40. And they didn't. So I don't feel bad about taking it, official legality aside.

If it pops up again as a classic home title? Well, Company X, you're lucky I'm such a collector, and that all that time playing your game on an emulator made me respect it enough to purchase it....

EDIT: All that said, I would still buy quite a few arcade games if I had the means.... Games I emulate right now as a matter of fact...

[Cryomancer]

I love emulation. I even have everything set up to easily plug my laptop into my TV and stereo for emulation purposes (well also for movies and music, but sometimes emulation, too). But then I'm a big fan of piracy, too, which most people frown upon, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I do however draw the line at "collecting" ROMs. That's taking things a bit far, I think. They're files. When we start talking about "collecting" data, I'm scared. Use the ROMs as you need them, but don't collect them as if they were something of greater value than raw data.


...word is bondage...


Technically they do have a greater value. In the future when all the EEPROMS erase themselves and the discs rot to nothing, the roms will still be around. It's preservation.

[Ed Oscuro]

I have an Intel Core 2 Duo and RAM set at 800MHz...Radiant Silvergun STILL doesn't play fullspeed. Tragic. Although, maybe I could tweak something to fix that...at least I can play Kyukyoku Tiger II (Twin Cobra sequel) fullspeed, which is great.

Also, Fusion 3.51 does not like going fullscreen on my system. I can do it, and it'll work, but then I can't exit it. Freezes the display, forces a reboot. I think I need to email the author about that.

[roushimsx]

I have an Intel Core 2 Duo and RAM set at 800MHz...Radiant Silvergun STILL doesn't play fullspeed.

Sure it does. Use SSF and play the Saturn version. The MAME STV core is hella demanding whereas while SSF is demanding, it's also multithreaded and preforms substantially better (ie. pretty much any Saturn game you want to play will be fully playable).

[Kevincal]

I've never gone through the trouble of figuring out ROMS or emu's. Hell, I don't have enough time to play my REAL physical games as it is...

[djsquarewave]

I love emulation.

I mean, I can't stand playing console games on a computer. But I love it for other reasons.

It's an invaluable aid in documenting and researching this sort of stuff. MAME documents arcade games with no regards to how successful they were. Many arcade games would probably be lost forever if not for the efforts of the MAME team.

It's also quite handy for people like myself involved in game developer research (http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page). Without ROMs and emulation, it would be next-to-impossible to do things like dig through ROMs to find credits (hi CRV!), or compare code between games.

Plus there's the whole "make something new and cool" factor. You can take any old Super Mario Bros. ROM and change all the graphics and levels; you can load up something like M1 or hoot and listen to the music from the games you loved or have yet to learn to love; you can use it as a testbed for making that dream game you've wanted to make since you were in grade school.

Not to mention getting to play games you'd never, ever, ever be able to buy ever, be it because it was never released in your native language, or never released at all, or released in such miniscule quantities that it would take two months' wages to purchase.

So yeah. I love emulation.