How Did Sony Become Number One?

[Ascending Wordsmith]

After looking a Sylent's post about February's best sellers, I noticed that all of them were for the Playstation 2. As you know, there are two other corporations out there with consoles currently in the video game market. But Sony is clearly in charge. I know that Nintendo spurned Sony by leaving them in the dark, and teaming up with other electronic corporations. Beyond that, I have no idea what happened other than the Playstation's release (which would eventually sling Sony into 1st place).

What happened in the industry that put Sony in the lead? I have nothing against Sony. The PSOne is one my favorite consoles :) Plus, I own one of their fine CD players.

[christianscott27]

money, tomb raider, grand theft auto, final fantasy to name a few reasons.

nintendo was focusing on the mario kiddie market, sega was wounded from the 32x, sega CD failures, sony jumped in with both feet and expanded the market for video games. sony puts its marketing muscle into the playstation and pushed titles that appealed to older gamers, carving out a gap between the mario crowd and the PC gamer crowd. they did what sega should have done had they the leadership and cash.
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[Raedon]

Sony got a large market by having Battle Arena Toshinden right off while Sega only had a very buggy Virtua Fighter 2, then Final Fantasy 7 when Nintendo was just out with only two games worth a crap (Mario 64 and wave race) and it was all over.

The PS2 has the market because it has most of the good exclusive titles and many titles under $20. PLUS it plays DVD's right out of the box.

[Mayhem]

Getting the franchises through dealing, having low licensing costs (compared to Nintendo at the time) and being Sony... three good reasons there...

[Sylentwulf]

Final Fantasy 7

Japan rules the market for the world, Nintendo needs to understand RPG's DO matter, wether the rest of the world thinks so or not.

[Chunky]

rape, murder, and a smile :)

[MankeyMan]

Sony advertised the PSX by primarily putting loads of PSX stands in clubs and pubs around the world, bringing it to the attention of the people who go out and buy GTA.

[Anonymous]

When the Playstation first came out it sold for about 450.00US, and it didn't come with anything at first IIRC. Then they offered Toshinden with it, and people started looking.

Ok, I KNOW I'm not the only one, Who else picked up a controller at your local game store when the PSX first came out and said "Got this controller SUCKS"?

The saturn was released 3 months early without notice (anyone remember that?), which was cool and all, except that none of the games were ready yet, so all people had were Virtua Fighter, Daytona, and like a soccer game for 3 months.

The playstation was flooded with games from the start, and I think that's why it did so well. Everybody here remembers buying a game based on the box art at some point in their lives, and we are the hardcore people. Everybody likes choices, and winners, and to most people, the system with the most choices is the winner.

[ManekiNeko]

Sony will always be number two in my book. And in my toilet! :-D

JR

POST 23!

[kainemaxwell]

Nintendo kinda shot themselves in the foot with Sony when they were working on a cd system for the SNES and they couldn't agree.

Sega's plan to release the Saturn earlier thene xpected was good on paper, but not good in real life.

[Kid Ice]

Sony got a large market by having Battle Arena Toshinden right off while Sega only had a very buggy Virtua Fighter 2, then Final Fantasy 7 when Nintendo was just out with only two games worth a crap (Mario 64 and wave race) and it was all over.

I agree with this assessment. The PSX just had some overwhelmingly good games early on. You just had to have one. Toshinden, Wipeout, Tekken, Air Combat - the Saturn was really the only competitor at that time, and it just had nothing that even came close early on. Final Fantasy 7 and Resident Evil seemed to be the games that blew things wide open for the PSX though. Shortly after that Colony Wars, SOTN, Gran Turismo..this is some list of games.

the kid

[slurpeepoop]

The PSX was $299 in the USA when it was first released. That's what gave them the edge over the Saturn, which was $399. There's an amusing story about this.

Sony also used every trick in the book to knock Nintendo over, including lower licensing fees, assisting third parties with advertising and other costs, and using their corporate might to force the PSX logo into every shelf in the world.

They also made the PSX a breeze to program for.

Nintendo was a name to be reckoned with, but the SNES was getting old, and they just couldn't compete with the multi-billion dollar might of Sony.

The irony is all the similarities between Sony's rise to number 1 and the current situation Microsoft is currently facing.

[IntvGene]

I agree with a lot that was already said here...

Don't forget that Sony had a couple of good software houses in their pocket... Psygnosis being one of the great ones. There were a lot of great games out near launch (Wipeout, Toshinden, Twisted Metal, Destruction Derby, etc.) that really propelled the system. It also had some great stuff like Parappa and things that got people talking.

Plus, Japan was a big market that got things started, the Sony name means a lot over there, and Final Fantasy and all really gave them a foot in the door there.

[slurpeepoop]

Namco was also a big factor.

Once the PSX got over their initial glut of FMV games, and 2-D sprite games that looked like more colorful 16-bit games, the floodgates came open, and the legendary games started rolling out.

Also, in the beginning, Sony refused to allow most companies to make RPGs for the PSX. It wasn't until FF7 caught the mainstream audience's attention that the PSX hit its golden days.

[Raedon]

It wasn't until FF7 caught the mainstream audience's attention that the PSX hit its golden days.

The PSX's "Golden Days" or best years were around the time tekken 3 and Gran Turismo 2 were released.. 98-99.. Those two years will make a new generation of game collectors who hold the PSX in the same light I hold the NES and C64.

[zmeston]

Japan rules the market for the world, Nintendo needs to understand RPG's DO matter, wether the rest of the world thinks so or not.

This was very true in the NES era, kind of true in the 16-bit era (although it was EA Sports that put the Genesis on top for a while, and Rare's Donkey Kong Country franchise that eventually won the war for the Super NES), and not at all true anymore.

The Japanese videogame market has been in steady decline for years, hence the recent rash of mergers and buyouts; Square and Enix, Sega and Sammy. The Japanese-developed games that DO sell in the States -- Kingdom Hearts, WWE SmackDown! -- possess all-American licenses, while original games with heavily Japanese aesthetics -- Rez, Gungrave -- tank at retail.

Also, I learned during my days at Working Designs that most RPGs sell huge for a month or two, then plunge off the charts after the RPG fanbase has snatched them up. RPGs simply don't have the mainstream appeal of the action games and sports games that sell in America. Final Fantasy VII was an exception to the rule, but it had the marketing power of Sony behind it.

[Ascending Wordsmith]

Well, Sony was plenty pissed at Nintendo's decision to join Emerson electronics to create a new CD console. Like a psycho exgirlfriend, Sony tried to breakup Nintendo's joint ventures with Emerson and any other company they tried to team up with. I'm assuming it Sony succeeded since Nintendo's next console was still cartridge based.



They also made the PSX a breeze to program for.

Aren't hardware producers supposed to make their consoles easy to program for? I can't imagine software companies like Capcom or Hudson having fits programming for a console.

[Raedon]

Japan rules the market for the world, Nintendo needs to understand RPG's DO matter, wether the rest of the world thinks so or not.

This was very true in the NES era, kind of true in the 16-bit era (although it was EA Sports that put the Genesis on top for a while, and Rare's Donkey Kong Country franchise that eventually won the war for the Super NES), and not at all true anymore.

The Japanese videogame market has been in steady decline for years, hence the recent rash of mergers and buyouts; Square and Enix, Sega and Sammy. The Japanese-developed games that DO sell in the States -- Kingdom Hearts, WWE SmackDown! -- possess all-American licenses, while original games with heavily Japanese aesthetics -- Rez, Gungrave -- tank at retail.

Also, I learned during my days at Working Designs that most RPGs sell huge for a month or two, then plunge off the charts after the RPG fanbase has snatched them up. RPGs simply don't have the mainstream appeal of the action games and sports games that sell in America. Final Fantasy VII was an exception to the rule, but it had the marketing power of Sony behind it.

No, he is right.. Japan has a hold on the current console market. Also, you are at a collector site, and "..sports games that sell in America." do not need apply. Sports games and collectors do not mix.

[zmeston]

Japan rules the market for the world, Nintendo needs to understand RPG's DO matter, wether the rest of the world thinks so or not.

This was very true in the NES era, kind of true in the 16-bit era (although it was EA Sports that put the Genesis on top for a while, and Rare's Donkey Kong Country franchise that eventually won the war for the Super NES), and not at all true anymore.

The Japanese videogame market has been in steady decline for years, hence the recent rash of mergers and buyouts; Square and Enix, Sega and Sammy. The Japanese-developed games that DO sell in the States -- Kingdom Hearts, WWE SmackDown! -- possess all-American licenses, while original games with heavily Japanese aesthetics -- Rez, Gungrave -- tank at retail.

Also, I learned during my days at Working Designs that most RPGs sell huge for a month or two, then plunge off the charts after the RPG fanbase has snatched them up. RPGs simply don't have the mainstream appeal of the action games and sports games that sell in America. Final Fantasy VII was an exception to the rule, but it had the marketing power of Sony behind it.

No, he is right.. Japan has a hold on the current console market. Also, you are at a collector site, and "..sports games that sell in America." do not need apply. Sports games and collectors do not mix.

If by "a hold on the market," you mean that Sony and Nintendo have the most popular game-console hardware, you are correct. But I was referring to software sales, and MUCH more software is sold in America than in Japan. (Considering our considerably higher population, not a surprise.) And, as I stated in my original post, the Japanese videogame market is seriously hurting, and has been for several years, which reflects the poor health of the Japanese economy as a whole.

As for the sports-game reference, I was making no connection to collecting, and I'm not sure why you thought that. I was referring to the fact that sports games are, in terms of unit sales, the most popular videogame genre in America. RPGs, by comparison, are a very small slice of the American sales pie, contrary to what was stated.

[ashbourn]

The sony was not #1 right off the bat, it them some time to get there.

[Anonymous]

If by "a hold on the market," you mean that Sony and Nintendo have the most popular game-console hardware, you are correct. But I was referring to software sales, and MUCH more software is sold in America than in Japan.

This is true, but it is the Japanese games which draw in the hardcore crowd, with the rest following. This is the way it's been forever. Basically, if about 6 or 7 key Japanese companies refuse to support a system, they all (exceptions aside) don't. But the difference between japanese and US game companies is that Japanese companies will decide not to support a system simply because it's not japanese. US companies will support anything that makes them money, but one look at Sega shows us that holding your head high is just as important as the bottom line.

[zmeston]

If by "a hold on the market," you mean that Sony and Nintendo have the most popular game-console hardware, you are correct. But I was referring to software sales, and MUCH more software is sold in America than in Japan.

This is true, but it is the Japanese games which draw in the hardcore crowd, with the rest following. This is the way it's been forever. Basically, if about 6 or 7 key Japanese companies refuse to support a system, they all (exceptions aside) don't. But the difference between japanese and US game companies is that Japanese companies will decide not to support a system simply because it's not japanese. US companies will support anything that makes them money, but one look at Sega shows us that holding your head high is just as important as the bottom line.

"With the rest following"? The most successful videogame companies are always striving to move AWAY from the hardcore crowd, and embrace mainstream/casual gamers. Games simply cost too much money to make anymore for companies to cater strictly to the hardcore. (Which has led to an overall dumbing-down of gameplay, but that's another topic.)

It's nice to believe that Japanese games set the pace for the American viceogame industry, but it's simply not true. Games like GTA3/VC and SlugFest and Pro Skater -- American and British games -- are setting the pace for the American videogame industry. Again, the Japanese games at the top of the U.S. sales charts, with few exceptions, are games with U.S. brands, NOT original Japanese concepts.

As for Japanese game companies not supporting American consoles, this is essentially correct. During my days at Working Designs, I learned that Japanese game developers hold American developers in universal contempt, and I'm sure that thinking extends into the corporate ranks. This is why Sega has gone to Sammy (a company with an extremely low profile in the U.S.) for financial aid, instead of Microsoft or Electronic Arts.

Japanese companies WILL support an American system given enough financial incentive, of course.

As for Sega, I'm not quite sure what you mean by its having "held its head high." There can be nobility in failure, but on a personal scale, not a corporate one. Sega's in it to make money, just like any U.S. company, and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Sega is a company that's committed a remarkable series of corporate blunders over the past decade, up to and including last year's bizarre notion that its NFL2K series would immediately compete with Madden. (Oops, I'm talking about sports games again!) Games like Rez and Gungrave and King of Route 66 -- hardcore games all -- simply aren't selling in the States.

[Bratwurst]

I must state I agree with everything zmeston has said in this thread thus far. Your comments concerning the industry are spot on, sir! Merely regard everything objectively, look at the financial state of current events and set aside the opinions of your favorite games that just happen to be Japanese in origin. We are a minority, and the appeal to the masses is what put Sony where it is now.

[Anonymous]

i don't doubt that this is so, but which game system do the American companies support? Games like GTA3 and the EA games have brought the masses into the fold, but when they started, they they made their decisions based on the company that had the largest installed base. The system with the largest installed base was the system with the most early adopters. The system with the most early adopters was the system with the best in early games. Most all of the early games were japanese in origin, and their success in days past relied on sales (This isn't as true anymore with people like Sony and MS willing to take huge losses for long periods of time in order to gain the lead), but it was true back when Sony took the lead, and they simply have mindshare now, just like nintendo did when the N64 came out, and if MS continues the way it is, then we may see something similar happen between MS and Sony.

The topic here is "How did Sony become number one?" after all. I'm not saying that the US games didn't bring in the masses, I am saying that the japanese games were instrumental in influencing which system the american devlopers published games for, and in that sense they have a huge pull in who "wins".

[zmeston]

The system with the most early adopters was the system with the best in early games. Most all of the early games were japanese in origin

Many of the early PlayStation games were Japanese, of course, as the hardware was released there first, giving Japanese developers a head start. But many of the BEST-SELLING U.S. PlayStation games in the system's first year were American and European in origin -- ESPN Extreme Games, Loaded, Twisted Metal, Wipeout, Destruction Derby, NFL GameDay, Tomb Raider, et al. I'm not denying the influence of such powerhouse Japanese franchises as Tekken and Resident Evil; I'm just stating (again) that the American and Japanese markets are very different. The original comment that brought me into this thread was "Japan rules the market for the world," which simply isn't true.

Also, the PlayStation didn't become the most popular system of its era ONLY because it had great games; Sony also did a stellar marketing job, and a panicky Sega (which had tanked with both the Sega CD and 32X) launched the Saturn too soon and at too high a price point. Earlier in this thread, cscott27 pretty much nailed why Sony was able to claim such a huge chunk of the videogame industry in such a short time.


and they simply have mindshare now, just like nintendo did when the N64 came out, and if MS continues the way it is, then we may see something similar happen between MS and Sony.

When the N64 shipped, Nintendo was already in a weakened position, having barely beaten Sega for overall 16-bit market share; they no longer had the mindshare (or the legally dubious third-party contracts) of the NES era.

If Microsoft continues on its present course, it'll remain a distant second to Sony, and slightly ahead of Nintendo -- unless Zelda gives the GCN an enormous boost, which it well might. Then again, the much-hyped Super Mario Sunshine seriously underperformed at retail.

PS2 consoles far outsold Xbox and GCN consoles last year, and PS2 software, as mentioned in the first post of this thread, dominates the sales charts. (GTA3 and VC do, in any case; take those two phenomenal games out of the picture and it's a very different story. That's why Sony paid Rockstar ungodly amounts of cash to keep GTA a PS2-exclusive franchise.)

A lot of gamers -- Nintendo/Sega fanboys? -- seem to resent Sony for being the first videogame company in history to dominate (in terms of sales) two generations of hardware in a row, but I think it's a remarkable achievement.

To sum up (whew!): Japanese games were just one of many factors in how Sony came to dominate the videogame industry, and certainly not the most significant.

[hamburgler]

Playstation
Psone
Playstation 2
The best games including GTA:vice city
First party support

[bizounce]

A lot of gamers -- Nintendo/Sega fanboys? -- seem to resent Sony for being the first videogame company in history to dominate (in terms of sales) two generations of hardware in a row, but I think it's a remarkable achievement.


Thank god I'm not the only one who thinks that. I love the videogames themselves, not just the systems they come on. Proof that the games make the system, not the system itself.