I'm kinda mad at Nintendo.

[diskoboy]

I'm sure I'll get over it... But I was so looking forward to the VC release of Kid Icarus.

I downloaded it, then find out none of the old codes work!

Why did we go and remove the old codes for, Nintendo? I forgot how hard this game was!

[8bitnes]

Spin it the other way. Nintendo gave the opportunity to master the game all over again!

[Graham Mitchell]

What do you mean none of the old codes work? Did they eliminate the passwords completely?

[8bitnes]

Most likely they altered the code so that the passcodes needed to be different.

[GarrettCRW]

Most likely they altered the code so that the passcodes needed to be different.

Or they purposely invalidated the "cheat" passwords (ICARUS FIGHTS MEDUSA ANGELS, 8uuuuu uuuuuu uuuuuu uuuuuu, etc.).

[Zadoc]

Another reason to silence those who say that VC games are better than the real thing.

[2Dskillz]

Another reason why owning the real classics will always be necessary.

[c0ldb33r]

I'm sure I'll get over it... But I was so looking forward to the VC release of Kid Icarus.

I downloaded it, then find out none of the old codes work!

Why did we go and remove the old codes for, Nintendo? I forgot how hard this game was!
Wow, that's stupid.

Nintendo should either

(1) leave the roms 100% original, or
(2) modify them, but put actual effort into it, new modes, online play, etc...

None of this half-assed change-it-just-enough-to-be-annoying crap :(

[theshizzle3000]

Yeah Kid Icarus is a bitch without codes, but at least its not like Battletoads where either way its impossible.

[bangtango]

Is there still a password screen? What if the codes are in there under a different password? Meaning they want to create a small "buzz" by making people rediscover some codes............

[Graham Mitchell]

At least you can save your state. Why would they disable passwords? The R-type free credits trick still works, and passwords still work in Military Madness and Bomberman '93. Why would they selectively do this to Kid Icarus?

[cyberfluxor]

I believe Nintendo should be re-releasing these games as ROMs that have been updated with the technology. It's not that difficult to boost the resolution of the games and improve a bit on their frame rates, ect. Sure, it'll take some time but all the programming is already there, just get a small team of people that'll just upgrade it, homebrewers do this all the time.

[agbulls]

I actually read about this last week before the game was released. Apparently the passcodes are running on some other type of code that is not compatible with the Wii's NES emulator. This was described as the exact problem the Wii has with Mario Kart 64 and the saving of ghost data.

Sadly, Nintendo has no plans to "fix" the game to allow the codes to work in the future--as they feel it does not cripple the game (due to the save state feature).

All I know is I'm happy I have my Kid Icarus cart. No watered down Wii version for me. :)

[Griking]

From Joystiq;


The omission of these codes is apparently a result of the original cartridge depending on an included module to process the codes; Virtual Console was not designed to emulate this specific component. Similar to Mario Kart ghost data or rumble feedback, Kid Icarus codes are dependent on hardware external to the game file. It simply isn't cost effective for Nintendo to patch VC to support these apparently minor features; unless the service encounters a backlash.



Link (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/02/13/secret-passwords-lost-in-kid-icarus-vc/)

[c0ldb33r]

From Joystiq;

I find it unbelievable that it isn't cost effective to fix it. They're charging 5 bucks for a 20 year old game. It likely wouldn't be expensive to fix either. That's just greediness and laziness :mad:

[Wavelflack]

Has Metroid been released? If so, do it's codes work? I presume if KI used a special component to generate codes, Metroid would as well.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I actually read about this last week before the game was released. Apparently the passcodes are running on some other type of code that is not compatible with the Wii's NES emulator. This was described as the exact problem the Wii has with Mario Kart 64 and the saving of ghost data.

Sadly, Nintendo has no plans to "fix" the game to allow the codes to work in the future--as they feel it does not cripple the game (due to the save state feature).

All I know is I'm happy I have my Kid Icarus cart. No watered down Wii version for me. :)

THAT'S ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.

The games were recoded, that much is true, and they removed the passwords while they were at it. They're just being lazy as hell.

[Bronty-2]

they probably figure no one will give a damn. for the most part, they are probably right. People like those on this board are a very small minority I think.

[JJNova]

they probably figure no one will give a damn. for the most part, they are probably right. People like those on this board are a very small minority I think.

I'm one of the "don't give a damns". Oh no, I can't cheat my way through a game now.


The games were recoded, that much is true, and they removed the passwords while they were at it. They're just being lazy as hell.
I have a question, since your comment contradicts itself, does that mean it rules itself out of existence? I ask, because I don't understand how recoding, and removing the passwords is equivalent to being lazy as hell. Seems like just wrapping the ROM within an emulator would of been lazy as hell, which is precisely what they did. The code system is still in the game, it's just not supported by the emulator. You shoul probably download and see for yourself, instead of getting mad at something without researching the basis of your opinion.

Yes. I am making fun of you.

[shadowkn55]

Just a minor detail. You really aren't playing the game if you are using cheat codes. As long as the core gameplay isn't affected, there isn't much to cry about.

[Jorpho]

I believe Nintendo should be re-releasing these games as ROMs that have been updated with the technology. It's not that difficult to boost the resolution of the games and improve a bit on their frame rates, ect. Sure, it'll take some time but all the programming is already there, just get a small team of people that'll just upgrade it, homebrewers do this all the time.

Unless you're referring to lame spirte hacks (which, if released by Nintendo, would probably have even more people rising up and saying OMFG WE WANT THE ORIGINAL NOT HAX), then what you're referring to is not trivial and is frequently the result of many people slamming their heads against nigh-inscruitable code over a considerable amount of time, unless I have a grave misunderstanding of these things. I doubt the amount of extra revenue these efforts would ultimately bring in would be worth it.


The games were recoded, that much is true, and they removed the passwords while they were at it. They're just being lazy as hell.

Recoded..? Are you suggesting they just reached into a drawer, pulled out a convenient disk of well-written, fully-documented source code from twenty years ago, and made alterations as necessary?

What I for one do not understand is why it has apparently never been a problem for NES emulator authors to bother about this "extra hardware".

[rbudrick]

For purists, I understand your cries. I can dig that. For anyone else upset about this, you're all a bunch of pussies. I beat this fucking game when I was 8 years old. If you can't do it, you suck. :D

-Rob

[jajaja]

Speaking of Kid Icaurs, i was playing through it this x-mas and at the begining (and somewhere else in the game) there is an empty room. What is this for? My first guess was that something else would appear after you beaten it, but its still empty. My 2nd guess is that this room is used for saving in the FDS version, is that right? If not, what on earth are those empty rooms for lol.

[shadowkn55]

It means you don't have enough points to earn the power-up.

[Red Hedgehog]

From Joystiq;
The omission of these codes is apparently a result of the original cartridge depending on an included module to process the codes; Virtual Console was not designed to emulate this specific component. Similar to Mario Kart ghost data or rumble feedback, Kid Icarus codes are dependent on hardware external to the game file. It simply isn't cost effective for Nintendo to patch VC to support these apparently minor features; unless the service encounters a backlash.
Link (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/02/13/secret-passwords-lost-in-kid-icarus-vc/)

Umm, yeah. I have to call BS on the passwords being "dependent on hardware external to the game file." The source to Metroid has been dumped and is available on the 'net. The password code is there and in the game and since Metroid and Kid Icarus were developed concurrently by the same group, I would assume they share the same password mechanism.

Perhaps there is some flaw in the Wii's NES emulator, but I find it highly dubious that the Kid Icarus cartridge does anything special that is difficult to emulate.

[jajaja]

It means you don't have enough points to earn the power-up.

I beaten the game like 3 times in a row, the rooms are still empty. How many points do you actually need and what power-ups do you get?

[Greg2600]

Nobody ever gets backward compatibility right on these systems. That said, there is a difference between getting it right so you can play an old Gamecube, PS2, or Xbox game you already own, and getting it right on a VC game you have to purchase. Also pretty lame excuses from Nintendo. Why can't they emulate their own code?

[Wavelflack]

I beaten the game like 3 times in a row, the rooms are still empty. How many points do you actually need and what power-ups do you get?


I don't know what the number is. I think it's based on the number of enemies killed prior to that point. Anyway, the powerups are the same ones you get throughout the game, the little arrows.

If you want to see for sure, just try to not kill any enemies (or only the absolute minimum). You'll find more empty rooms than you remembered.

The manual actually says something about this, but I'm too lazy to dig it up.

[Wavelflack]

Ripped off from Gamefaqs:

"*Endurance & Strength Levels*

Pit starts off pretty weak, but if you acquire enough points, you'll be able
to boost your endurance meter at the checkpoints. The following is a list of
the approximate point totals needed to earn more endurance:

204,200 points - 5 Endurance Bars
122,300 points - 4 Endurance Bars
56,600 points - 3 Endurance Bars
28,200 points - 2 Endurance Bars

If Pit has defeated enough enemies, he can acquire extra arrows (Strength)
from a friendly god in the Sacred Chamber. To acquire more strength, Pit must:
1) kill lots of enemies, 2) enter all chambers and defeat all the enemies
there, 3) acquire lots of items, and 4) receive as little damage as possible
from enemies. These all decide strength bonuses. Don't expect your 4th or 5th
Arrow until you have completed the game once. Although points aren't really
used in tallying strength bonuses, the following is a rough list of the point
totals associated with higher strength levels:

798,900 points - 5 Strength (Sacred Arrow/Light Blue)
227,700 points - 4 Strength (Gold Arrow/Pink)
167,000 points - 3 Strength (Silver Arrow/Blue)
18,800 points - 2 Strength (Bronze Arrow/Yellow)

[Kitsune Sniper]

I'm one of the "don't give a damns". Oh no, I can't cheat my way through a game now.

I have a question, since your comment contradicts itself, does that mean it rules itself out of existence? I ask, because I don't understand how recoding, and removing the passwords is equivalent to being lazy as hell. Seems like just wrapping the ROM within an emulator would of been lazy as hell, which is precisely what they did. The code system is still in the game, it's just not supported by the emulator. You shoul probably download and see for yourself, instead of getting mad at something without researching the basis of your opinion.

Yes. I am making fun of you.

They messed with the game and removed the cheat passwords on purpose. I'm fairly sure they do have the source code to their games, even if they're twenty years old.

The lazy as hell comment was referring to the lack of Ghost support in MK64 and the other things that require rumble. There's rumble in the GC pads already, so why didn't they add it?


What I for one do not understand is why it has apparently never been a problem for NES emulator authors to bother about this "extra hardware".

That's because there ISN'T ANY. The only extra hardware is the mapper (a chip placed inside the cart to get special effects or to be able to use larger games). And the mapper the game used was a simple one: Mapper 1.

There's been instances of changed games in retro compilations; Konami did it with their NES compilation for Windows a while back. The title screens have changed copyright information, and Castlevania II used a different password system, if I recall correctly.

[jajaja]

Ripped off from Gamefaqs:

"*Endurance & Strength Levels*

Pit starts off pretty weak, but if you acquire enough points, you'll be able
to boost your endurance meter at the checkpoints. The following is a list of
the approximate point totals needed to earn more endurance:

204,200 points - 5 Endurance Bars
122,300 points - 4 Endurance Bars
56,600 points - 3 Endurance Bars
28,200 points - 2 Endurance Bars

If Pit has defeated enough enemies, he can acquire extra arrows (Strength)
from a friendly god in the Sacred Chamber. To acquire more strength, Pit must:
1) kill lots of enemies, 2) enter all chambers and defeat all the enemies
there, 3) acquire lots of items, and 4) receive as little damage as possible
from enemies. These all decide strength bonuses. Don't expect your 4th or 5th
Arrow until you have completed the game once. Although points aren't really
used in tallying strength bonuses, the following is a rough list of the point
totals associated with higher strength levels:

798,900 points - 5 Strength (Sacred Arrow/Light Blue)
227,700 points - 4 Strength (Gold Arrow/Pink)
167,000 points - 3 Strength (Silver Arrow/Blue)
18,800 points - 2 Strength (Bronze Arrow/Yellow)

I got all the arrows, but the room in the begining is always empty. I dont see any space on the menu where another power-up could fit either, therefor i wonder if this room only has a meaning in the FDS version. This room:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/806/11440802yj6.png

[Griking]

Perhaps Nintendo has plans to hold contests or keep high scores for some of its virtual games and don't want the scores to be inflated because of cheat codes. Just a thought.

[GarrettCRW]

I got all the arrows, but the room in the begining is always empty. I dont see any space on the menu where another power-up could fit either, therefor i wonder if this room only has a meaning in the FDS version. This room:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/806/11440802yj6.png

The room is still an arrow upgrade room in the FDS version. And speaking of such things, I think getting all five arrows (and the requisite high score of over 700,000) is a requirement for getting the best ending in the FDS Kid Icarus.....in only one run through the game.

[jajaja]

The room is still an arrow upgrade room in the FDS version. And speaking of such things, I think getting all five arrows (and the requisite high score of over 700,000) is a requirement for getting the best ending in the FDS Kid Icarus.....in only one run through the game.

Ok, then i was right :) Because in the NES version that room is always empty (atleast the 3-4 times i've beaten it and i got all 5 arrows).

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

The cheat codes for games like Kid Icarus and Metroid were never programmed into the game to begin with. JUSTIN BAILEY ______ ______ and ICARUS FIGHTS MEDUSA ANGELS were both just flukes of the password code used in the games. Similar to minus world in Super Mario Bros. or many of the strange worlds or phenomena found using the Game Genie, they only exist because of the particular and streamlined way the ASM code for Nintendo games was organized.

So there's a number of reasons why the codes might not work in the virtual console versions of the games. The ROMs the virtual console uses may be re-organized or mapped differently. Of course, if normal Kid Icarus and Metroid codes do work, but not these special codes, then it seems like that would mean that Nintendo did re-write the games or at least their password systems. Whether or not the re-writes were done specifically to rule out these kinds of codes would be another question.


...word is bondage...

[Jorpho]

The cheat codes for games like Kid Icarus and Metroid were never programmed into the game to begin with. JUSTIN BAILEY ______ ______ and ICARUS FIGHTS MEDUSA ANGELS were both just flukes of the password code used in the games. Similar to minus world in Super Mario Bros. or many of the strange worlds or phenomena found using the Game Genie, they only exist because of the particular and streamlined way the ASM code for Nintendo games was organized.

With the plethora of odd-sounding codes for Kid Icarus, I might believe that ICARUS FIGHTS MEDUSA ANGELS was a fluke, but JUSTIN BAILEY is too literal to be a coincidence.

[Blitzwing256]

With the plethora of odd-sounding codes for Kid Icarus, I might believe that ICARUS FIGHTS MEDUSA ANGELS was a fluke, but JUSTIN BAILEY is too literal to be a coincidence.

Metroid does have a special password
narpasword which enables an invincibility mode, so some of the codes are specialy made ones


another small thing they changed, when you beat medusa in the end the game doesn't epilecticly flash like it originaly did, so they had to change some code somewhere in the game.

[Jorpho]

Metroid does have a special password
narpasword which enables an invincibility mode, so some of the codes are specialy made ones

Hmm. It does indeed have just as many odd-looking passwords as Kid Icarus does.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/code/519689.html

(By the way, are the passwords for Kid Icarus enabled in the Japan-only GBA release?)

[Red Hedgehog]

Ok, then i was right :) Because in the NES version that room is always empty (atleast the 3-4 times i've beaten it and i got all 5 arrows).

The only times that room won't be empty is in a second run-through of the game. You know how, after you beat the game, you continue again from the first level with all your stuff? Well, if you haven't gotten all the strength upgrades in your first run through and you got enough points in the final level and the first level up to the room, it will have a strength upgrade.

[Red Hedgehog]

With the plethora of odd-sounding codes for Kid Icarus, I might believe that ICARUS FIGHTS MEDUSA ANGELS was a fluke, but JUSTIN BAILEY is too literal to be a coincidence.

I'm not sure how JUSTIN BAILEY is too literal. It isn't like it is the name of anyone significant.

Anyway, the only password hardcoded into Metroid is NARPASSWORD. All others work within the normal rules of the password system. This has been confirmed by examining the Metroid source code.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I'm not sure how JUSTIN BAILEY is too literal. It isn't like it is the name of anyone significant.

I read somewhere that the name is supposed to reference Samus' suit under her armor. The one-piece swimsuit?

Just In Bailey.

Of course, I can't find the word "Bailey" in that context anywhere so it was probably made up.

[Graham Mitchell]

I read somewhere that the name is supposed to reference Samus' suit under her armor. The one-piece swimsuit?

Just In Bailey.

Of course, I can't find the word "Bailey" in that context anywhere so it was probably made up.

I've heard that "Bailey" is an Australian slang term for a one-piece bathing suit. It seems pretty far-fetched to me that a Japanese video game design team would intentionally incorporate an Australian slang term into their game.

Now, what I've read over the years is this: NARPASWORD is the only metroid password that's really special. The program apparently checks to see if you've entered this password before running a checksum on what you've entered. This means that JUSTING BAILEY serindipitously passes the checksum, somehow or another.

Now, with Kid Icarus, something similar is going on with ICARUS FIGHTS MEDUSA ANGELS and 8uuuuuuuuuuuuuu, etc. The game checks for those (supposedly using this external module) before running the checksum on your password.

Oh, and I've read some pretty convoluted statements in this thread, but I'll try and clear something up. I downloaded the Wii Kid Icarus, and Passwords do work just like they did in the old cartridge, but entering one of the aforementioned "secret codes" will get you a password error screen. Other than that, it works.

[jajaja]

The only times that room won't be empty is in a second run-through of the game. You know how, after you beat the game, you continue again from the first level with all your stuff? Well, if you haven't gotten all the strength upgrades in your first run through and you got enough points in the final level and the first level up to the room, it will have a strength upgrade.

Hm.. i'm almost positive that this room was always empty, but its been a while since i've played it so i cant say for sure that im right or wrong.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Oh, and I've read some pretty convoluted statements in this thread, but I'll try and clear something up. I downloaded the Wii Kid Icarus, and Passwords do work just like they did in the old cartridge, but entering one of the aforementioned "secret codes" will get you a password error screen. Other than that, it works.
Codes you recieve from the cartridge version of the game will work on the Wii version or only passwords given by the Wii version work on the Wii version?


...word is bondage...

[Graham Mitchell]

Codes you recieve from the cartridge version of the game will work on the Wii version or only passwords given by the Wii version work on the Wii version?


...word is bondage...

Can't say for sure right now because my Kid Icarus cart is in Chicago and I'm in Seattle, but from what I've been reading (see above link in this thread; contains testimonials from users in the "user comments" section), passwords from the cart will work in the Wii version.

If the reasoning I gave in my last post is correct, I can't think of why there would be a discrepancy between the NES cart and the VC version with respect to legit passwords recieved de novo from the game. If they didn't work, chances are that Nintendo would have clipped access to the password select screen entirely based on how they've dealt with hardware issues in other games. For example, the com-link mode in Bomberman '93 (originally designed for two TurboExpresses/PC-Engine GT's to communicate via the com-link cable) is disabled; if you try to access it, it takes you to the regular multiplayer menu.

But that doesn't matter, because my hands are tied and I can't take the pepsi challenge on that right now. Can anybody else?

[Red Hedgehog]

Hm.. i'm almost positive that this room was always empty, but its been a while since i've played it so i cant say for sure that im right or wrong.

I have distinct memories of when playing this game when younger, receiving a strength upgrade in this room right after beating the game. Gamefaqs seems to back me up.

[Zing]

I never even knew about these cheat passwords and have finished the game several times. C'mon you wimps. Can't you beat the game without reading "Kid Icarus For Dummies"? Maybe this generation is too soft from all those hours of Halo 2 or something. :embarrassed:

Disclaimer: I probably couldn't beat Kid Icarus these days, either.