Steam

[Iron Draggon]

I just purchased GTI Racer for the PC... the US publisher is TopWare and the developer is Techland... neither of which suggests any connection to Valve Software... but this game forces you to install STEAM before you can install the game itself, and this fact isn't mentioned anywhere on the box... nor is it mentioned anywhere on the box that an internet connection is required just to install the game, because of the requirement to install STEAM first... the minimum system requirements state that a modem is required for multiplayer mode, and the recommended system requirements state that an internet connection is required for multiplayer mode, but that's all that's on the box...

this is extremely deceptive, and should constitute some sort of deceptive business practice, as far as I'm concerned... there should at least be a logo for STEAM on the box that says "powered by STEAM" or something to that effect, so potential buyers will know that it's a requirement for installing the game, or at least those who are already familiar with STEAM will know this...

I had heard about STEAM and many of the complaints with it before, but since I don't play any of Valve Software's games or any other FPS, I figured that I would never have to worry about having an encounter with this very sinister program... then I heard that STEAM would soon take over PC gaming, and I figured that I still had nothing to worry about, since I don't play FPS...

but it's happening now, my friends... PC gamers all over the world are being forced to install STEAM just so they can install new games that they bought, and worse yet they're being duped into buying games that force them to do this without being warned on the box that they will be forced to do this, if they want to play these particular games... this makes me question what the real purpose of STEAM is... if they're being this deceptive about it being a requirement for installing a game, then surely there's alot more that they're hiding about it... copy protection schemes are one thing, but STEAM doesn't appear to be a copy protection scheme... it just appears to be a scheme...

I've heard many good things about STEAM too, but the very deceptive way that it's being forced upon unsuspecting PC gamers like this still leads me to believe that whatever is good about it is merely a facade to cover up its very sinister true purpose... corporations never deceive consumers without a dark purpose for doing so, and this is most certainly a very blatant deception... it's very clearly an attempt to force all PC gamers to install STEAM sooner or later, and there must be a reason for this beyond providing multiplayer fun...

so what is up with this shit? I own alot of games that include GameSpy on the disc for multiplayer mode, but this fact is always stated on the box, and installing GameSpy is never a requirement for installing those games... the GameSpy installer doesn't launch until after the games are installed... this should be the case with STEAM as well, but it's not... very sinister indeed...

[Griking]

Call the customer service or tech support number for the game developer and complain that it wasn't documented on the box anywheres. You can't return the open game to the store but you should be able to request a return from the manufacturer. The only way they'll rethink this practice is if people return the game and they loose sales over it.

[Jorpho]

(Sir? Please be advised that generally sentences start with a capital letter and end with a single period.)

[carlcarlson]

yeah, what griking said. I hate steam and am afraid that programs like that will become the norm for pc games. steam pretty much killed my respect for valve (which was revived after I played hl2!). anyway, anything that can be done to discourage the use of such programs is a must in my book.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Yeah man, Steam is totally going to hijack the internets by spying on every PC gamer in existence.

[Daltone]

Yeah man, Steam is totally going to hijack the internets by spying on every PC gamer in existence.

It's welcome to spy on my computer, just so long as the bastard thing stops crashing and hogging my system resources.

[Joker T]

It's welcome to spy on my computer, just so long as the bastard thing stops crashing and hogging my system resources.

Yep, that's my big problem with it. Everytime I boot my computer I get a big fat Steam error. On top of random disconnects and other crap.

[theshizzle3000]

It's welcome to spy on my computer, just so long as the bastard thing stops crashing and hogging my system resources.

Yeah I could not agree more between that and the actual Counter-Strike game my computer was about to flatline..So I just got rid of them both and went back to console gaming.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Uh, so am I the only one that doesn't let Steam run on startup, and who keeps it closed when I'm not playing?

Jeez. :P I'm not fond of the copy protection method, but it's not really that bad. At least it's not STARFORCE.

[SaturnFan]

Thanks for the heads up, i'll be sure NOT to buy this game.

My PC gaming days are over when Steam becomes the norm.

[Emuaust]

Am I the Only one that lets Steam run on startup and dont have any problems?

/me has always been a steam user and loves it, auto patching FTW.

[JJNova]

I'm thinking most of the Steam naysayers weren't participants of the large update they did recently. I'm also under the impression, as with an above poster, that a lot of people have Steam setup for startup?

Steam is only opened when I play a game online, and Steam is as stable as any other software. It's definitely made multiplayer a wonderful experience. As far as being pissed off that steam is a requirement for multiplayer, if you do have a reason to dislike Steam still (after the latest upgrade) than I second the motion to call the publisher. I don't see anything wrong with it personally, and generally expect more than a game to be installed anymore (DirectX upgrades, Controller upgrades, Codecs, shit that I didn't want installed, but are a requirement).

[Ed Oscuro]

My PC gaming days are over when Steam becomes the norm.
Your days are numbered, then - many publishers will still do packaged retail games, but will require you to go with Steam-like systems for activation and patches.

Anyway, I haven't had any Steam errors, even on my most ancient Pentium IV machine.

I think it's shady that they don't mention that an internet connection is required or that it uses Steam, and I think that should be changed. Aside from that, I love Steam (unless it goes down, in which case I come THIS close to writing an expose, heh - although back in the day there were WON authentication servers to worry about). Instant patches, awesome. However, I refuse to buy things online - I'll get my games boxed at a retail store and then just load them up via Steam.

I particularly like having my whole game collection only a few button clicks away. Sure, it's slow (only 1-1.5 MB/sec, oh the HORROR), but I can do shit while it's installing. Much more fun than installing stuff manually.

[CYRiX]

Steam is awesome, has never been a problem for me.

[ProgrammingAce]

this makes me question what the real purpose of STEAM is... if they're being this deceptive about it being a requirement for installing a game, then surely there's alot more that they're hiding about it... copy protection schemes are one thing, but STEAM doesn't appear to be a copy protection scheme... it just appears to be a scheme...

Are you serious?

Look, i'll be honest. I don't like Steam, it doesn't even run on my system, but to accuse it of having ulterior motives is insane. It isn't a copy protection system, it obviously fails at that goal. It's little more then a speed bump for hackers.

Steam's goal is the same as Xbox Live or Nintendo's Virtual Console. Digitally distribute games. While collectors think this is the bane of existance, the gaming industry has decided that it's a viable model. Get used to it, or stick with what you already have. If the majority feels the same way, then they'll switch back. My copy of geometry wars says digital distribution is fine.

[roushimsx]

Uh, so am I the only one that doesn't let Steam run on startup, and who keeps it closed when I'm not playing?

Same boat, baby.

I love Steam and wish more stuff would get published through it. It's an awesome content delivery platform and there's a great selection of stuff on there.

Now "Episodic Gaming"...there's something that can eat my asshole. :)

[Griking]

So what happens if Steam doesn't catch on for some reason and shuts it's doors or if they decide to "retire" a game? Doesn't this mean that you can no longer play that retail purchased game that you own?

[Kitsune Sniper]

So what happens if Steam doesn't catch on for some reason and shuts it's doors or if they decide to "retire" a game? Doesn't this mean that you can no longer play that retail purchased game that you own?

That's my main concern with the system. Ten, fifteen years down the line... that'll be a problem.

[roushimsx]

So what happens if Steam doesn't catch on for some reason and shuts it's doors or if they decide to "retire" a game? Doesn't this mean that you can no longer play that retail purchased game that you own?

You can look at what happened to Triton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_%28content_delivery%29) for an idea of what could happen. For first party Valve software, they'd probably be able to patch out the protection. It really depends on how their nazi contracts with Vivendi Universal and Electronic Arts were structured. At the very least, I'd expect them to dish out physical copies. The Steam-exclusive stuff would probably be just fine.

Really, I don't think it's anything to be worried about.

[Daltone]

I really like the idea of Steam, I just don't like it much.

In all honestly, I've not had it on my computer for about six months, so if it's a lot more stable now then good. After a while I learned my lesson and stopped it running at startup, but it still managed to cause my computer to get it's knickers in a twist from time to time.

[Sothy]

calm the steam min

[Iron Draggon]

well upon further research, it turns out that STEAM is a DRM scheme... it has nothing to do with copy protection yet... so it's just Big Brother watching you

here's the wiki on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(content_delivery)

this particular entry from the wiki is very alarming and very frightening:

Privacy concerns

The matter of privacy has been raised, as it is necessary to log in and validate with Steam online at least once in order to play any Steam game. While there is an offline mode available, critics point out that it can only be accessed when not connected to the Internet: there is no command line parameter to force it. There are also no alternate methods of activation such as via telephone or fax. These issues have caused those with computers with sporadic or no internet access often to be denied from registering their purchased Steam products.

While it is not widely discussed, Steam also collects and reports anonymous and non-identifying metrics of its usage, stability, and performance. Steam is also used to report similarly anonymous and non-identifying data by several of its games. While some forms of this data are reported back to the public in aggregate form, for instance hardware specifications and gameplay statistics, other non-identifying data has been known to be collected without any indication (and with the Steam EULA absolving Valve of responsibility).

To date the only known example of this undisclosed collection of data has been that of the level of internal fragmentation of Steam's files. The data was used to justify the development of an internal defragmentation utility to reverse the performance-degrading process. "Rather than having to guess or estimate performance bottle-necks", a Steam Update News entry said at the time, "Steam gave us the ability to precisely solve the real-world problem."

The full extent of undisclosed data collection is unknown.

read that last sentence again... scary as hell... only Valve knows the extent!

my biggest gripe with STEAM so far is the fact that I can't even install this new game that I bought in a B&M store on a DVD without installing STEAM first... and this fact wasn't clearly stated anywhere on the box... if I had bought the game as a download through STEAM, I would understand it, but I don't think that I should be forced to install STEAM just to install the game

I'm also not too happy to learn that I could've downloaded the game through STEAM along with XpandRally for only $9.99, after I just paid $29.99 for GTI Racer alone... yeah I got it on a DVD in a nice DVD case for that price, but had I known that I could've just downloaded it and saved $20 on it, I prolly would've just downloaded it, especially knowing what I know now about not even being able to install it without having STEAM installed... so I just paid $20 more than I really had to, just to get the game on a DVD in a DVD case

BTW, I already own XpandRally, which I bought in a B&M store on a CD as well, and it doesn't require STEAM to be installed at all... perhaps newer versions of the game require it, but the one that I own doesn't require it

I know the switch to digital distribution is inevitable, but I still don't like it... it has its benefits, but its drawbacks outweigh them, as far as I'm concerned

oh well, I guess I'll see the rest of you guys on STEAM... I don't plan to try returning the game, I just thought that I would warn everyone else about it

[Azraelscross]

About that Wiki article. you do know that right now as you browse this forum your ISP knows what your browsing. you download something? they know exactly what you downloaded and how long it took. all of it is monitered and logged. the internet isn't free reign. just read some of the Terms of Service you agree too.

and on the subject of steam. i like it. never crashed on me. all my games are right there. and its simple to start and join online games

[roushimsx]

well upon further research, it turns out that STEAM is a DRM scheme...


Quoted out of context because I thought it was funny in an overly paranoid way.

I'm going to break down and respond to some chunks of that Wikipedia article:



The matter of privacy has been raised, as it is necessary to log in and validate with Steam online at least once in order to play any Steam game.


Nevermind the fact that people have been doing this for nearly a decade with pretty much every online multiplayer game. From Quake 3 on forward, though I'm sure there's earlier examples. You've always had to authenticate off of a master server.



While there is an offline mode available, critics point out that it can only be accessed when not connected to the Internet: there is no command line parameter to force it.


I've never fully understood where this was an issue with a majority of people. Perhaps if you were severely bandwidth limited? I guess in that case you'd probably be kinda boned (Hi, Aussies!). They did use to have a checkbox that you could force offline mode, but I guess it disappeared a year or so back.



There are also no alternate methods of activation such as via telephone or fax. These issues have caused those with computers with sporadic or no internet access often to be denied from registering their purchased Steam products.

I agree that this bites, but I'm sure it ties in with their copy protection scheme in an effort to prevent people from decrypting the games before release. Of course, once the games have been released then the decrypted copies hit the Usenet and then torrents start popping up, but it does wonders for preventing early leaks.

Shame those guys couldn't secure their own computers to prevent their own source code from being leaked, heh. (gaben, indeed)

I do understand the frustration of having to let it connect and decrypt the information of the DVD, but it's a hell of a lot less intrusive than always having to pop in the disc to play or bundling garbage like Starforce or SafeDisc. Hell, Valve even negotiated with Vivendi to allow them to remove the cd/dvd copy protection that Vivendi put on the HL2 discs.

This next part isn't even an issue so much as a feature that should be praised:


While it is not widely discussed, Steam also collects and reports anonymous and non-identifying metrics of its usage, stability, and performance. Steam is also used to report similarly anonymous and non-identifying data by several of its games. While some forms of this data are reported back to the public in aggregate form, for instance hardware specifications and gameplay statistics, other non-identifying data has been known to be collected without any indication (and with the Steam EULA absolving Valve of responsibility).


The tacked on "data has been known to be collected without any indication (and with the Steam EULA absolving Valve of responsibility)" completely nullifies the multiple instances of "anonymous and non-identifying" preceding it for most people. What's important to know is that the data that they mine from that is geared towards finding out what the overall userbase enjoys in their gameplay experience. For instance, check out the stats that Ritual collected (http://www.sinepisodes.com/index.php?stats_emergence). You shouldn't be complaining that they gather non-identifying data, you should be complaining that only 21% of the players bothered to finish an awesome 4-5 hour run and gun. :)



To date the only known example of this undisclosed collection of data has been that of the level of internal fragmentation of Steam's files. The data was used to justify the development of an internal defragmentation utility to reverse the performance-degrading process. "Rather than having to guess or estimate performance bottle-necks", a Steam Update News entry said at the time, "Steam gave us the ability to precisely solve the real-world problem."


There's a whole block of goodness right there. Plus it's incorrect based on what Ritual released with Sin Episodes.



The full extent of undisclosed data collection is unknown.


But it's known that the data is non-identifying and anonymous...so....yea.
read that last sentence again... scary as hell... only Valve knows the extent!



I'm also not too happy to learn that I could've downloaded the game through STEAM along with XpandRally for only $9.99, after I just paid $29.99 for GTI Racer alone... yeah I got it on a DVD in a nice DVD case for that price, but had I known that I could've just downloaded it and saved $20 on it

So in the end you're just really miffed you didn't know that the game was already available on Steam for a third of the price that you paid in the store? I wouldn't be mad at Steam for that, I'd be kind of angry at myself for not doing a little more research online before buying it...but it's all good...everyone has made a similar mistake in the past. You shouldn't vent out against Steam over it, though.

I do see a couple of games on there that are available on GameTap, but god damn..Outrun 2006 Coast to Coast for $20? I didn't know that was out on Steam. Time to download it :)

[Ed Oscuro]

[Steam] isn't a copy protection system,
Of course it is. Whether or not it really works is immaterial...

RE: Triton.

I only heard about that about the time Prey launched, and Prey is still the only game on that service I can think of (despite having visited their site back when it was active). Long story short, they had problems, and Steam already had the biggest piece of the pie. At that time SiN Episodes were already out and a bunch of other games were either on Steam or soon to come.

It's a shame, too, since Triton's "play before everything is downloaded" model seems like a good idea, even if it would have put slightly more strain on developers (I bet). Doubt it would have worked for older games.

[Griking]

my biggest gripe with STEAM so far is the fact that I can't even install this new game that I bought in a B&M store on a DVD without installing STEAM first... and this fact wasn't clearly stated anywhere on the box... if I had bought the game as a download through STEAM, I would understand it, but I don't think that I should be forced to install STEAM just to install the game

I'm also not too happy to learn that I could've downloaded the game through STEAM along with XpandRally for only $9.99, after I just paid $29.99 for GTI Racer alone... yeah I got it on a DVD in a nice DVD case for that price, but had I known that I could've just downloaded it and saved $20 on it, I prolly would've just downloaded it, especially knowing what I know now about not even being able to install it without having STEAM installed... so I just paid $20 more than I really had to, just to get the game on a DVD in a DVD case


I'm a little confused, on one hand you're alarmed about Steam collecting data on your usage habits but on the other hand you say that you would have preferred to have given Steam your credit card information and downloaded the game from them. If you don't trust them why in the world would you want to give them your credit card info?

As I said before, call them, compalin about the non disclosure and ask for a refund

[ProgrammingAce]

[Steam] isn't a copy protection system,
Of course it is. Whether or not it really works is immaterial...


It's DRM (Digital Rights Management) software, not copy protection. You're more then welcome to copy whatever files you'd like, they just won't work unless you're authorized. One of the biggest features of Steam is that it will copy your games to another system.

In the grand scheme of data, Copy protection sucks, DRM bad but generally acceptable, and watermarking is the future. While they all serve common goals, they are not all the same thing.

If you really want to make a complaint against Steam, here's what Gabe Newell said:


If you right click on a game in Steam, you'll see that you can back up the files yourself. Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available.

We've tested disabling authentication and it works.

Unfortunately this didn't work out so well back in December when their data center was knocked out due to a power outage. Funny, they didn't decide to disable authentication then. They just left all of their users without their games.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's DRM (Digital Rights Management) software, not copy protection.
Indeed DRM is not the same as copy protection, but Steam can be categorized as both. Actually, the case that Steam is a form of DRM is less clear than that is is copy protection, since DRM usually is meant to refer to a specific type of protection which prevents you from viewing files if you do not meet specific requirements (such as a platform or keys).

Steam prevents you from copying the game without using their special service. You cannot simply copy the game from one system to another and have it work. Note that you could indeed copy old floppy games to any system you want, but unless you had the code wheel you couldn't actually use your pirated game. Hence, copy protection does not stop copying - it just prevents the use of copied materials. Anyhow, it seems basically the whole world agrees that Steam is copy protection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_protection#Case_study:_Steam), so I'm not worried about what I'm saying. I don't mind having you make me think about it a bit, of course, but I'm probably the only one crazy enough to get something out of this.

[SkiDragon]

I refuse to buy any game that uses this system. Or rather, I would if I could, but "buying" a game with Steam is really only paying for permission to play it. You can't sell your game. You can't lend it to somebody. I was able to borrow a friend's account to play Half-Life 2, but that is as far as I will go with this system.

[smork]

I'm not buying anything on Steam, either. I don't have a problem with any "sinister" aspect of the scheme -- I just hate having less fair-use rights with a digitally distributed product than a physical one. I don't buy online music (and I won't until A) they actually reduce the price over the cost of a CD B) Allow you the same backup and copying rights as you have with a traditional CD) and I don't plan on buying any games online either, except smaller purchases through Live Arcade and the such.

If I am paying $50+ for a game, I want the game, and the right to do with it as I am legally entitled to. I've got tons of console games that play just great off a disk or a cartridge, and as long as the physical media still functions and the game system to play them, I KNOW I can play my games.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I refuse to buy any game that uses this system. Or rather, I would if I could, but "buying" a game with Steam is really only paying for permission to play it. You can't sell your game. You can't lend it to somebody. I was able to borrow a friend's account to play Half-Life 2, but that is as far as I will go with this system.

Actually, you -can- sell the game if you have a disc-based copy.

Steam requires the buyer to send the CD key (as in, the sticker with the key) to them so it can be deactivated or something, and transferred to the new buyer, though. It takes a few weeks to do. That's what I read on their FAQ.

Still, I refuse to pay $50 for games that are almost three years old now. Half-Life 2 is NOT worth that much anymore. At most I'd pay $20!