Will Sega become the next 3DO?

[cessnaace]

I've been trying to find out the financial health of Sega, but everything I find is old.

SEGA E3 2006:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/theclub/news.html?sid=6149159&msg_sort=1

SEGA SAMMY PROFITS PLUMMET 93% - JULY 2006:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6154892.html

SEGA SAMMY TO CONCENTRATE MAINLY ON ARCADE MACHINES - 12/12/2003

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=2705

As a Sega fan I sure hope they don't go the way of 3DO. Personally, I think that if 3DO made more than Army Men games their last several years they may have lasted longer. Sega concentrates heavily on Sonic, but not exlcusively. They DO release other games.

How's Sega doing? Will they survive?


Mark

[RadiantSvgun]

I hope not. The Atomiswave is probably one of the most powerful pieces of arcade equipment ever produced. Sega probably needs to market a better.

[swlovinist]

I am a huge huge sega fan as many know, but I do not have alot of faith in the company. They truly have lost their way. Phantasy Star Universe was a bust, I just hope that games such as Virtua Fighter 5 will do them some financial stability. The Sega that I was grown up on is dead.

[Kid Ice]

I'm surprised they're still around. I don't know why you're comparing Sega to 3DO. 3DO was never as big as Sega (or uhh, big). Atari might be a more apt comparison, especially given Sega's arcade games.

[RadiantSvgun]

I am a huge huge sega fan as many know, but I do not have alot of faith in the company. They truly have lost their way. Phantasy Star Universe was a bust, I just hope that games such as Virtua Fighter 5 will do them some financial stability. The Sega that I was grown up on is dead.

I have to admit, I feel the same way you do. To me, its like working with a kid that has so much potential and never uses it.

Sega needs to make a real Phantasy Star game, and a real Shining force game. Oh, and another Streets of Rage and Beyond Oasis would be nice. Sega has lost a lot of its spark.

[xfrumx]

Sega should make an old school top down Shining Force with great graphics the one on GBA is great

They should also make some goos sonic sidescrollers for consoles with great graphics

they would have a goldmine all over again!

[cessnaace]

I'm surprised they're still around. I don't know why you're comparing Sega to 3DO. 3DO was never as big as Sega (or uhh, big). Atari might be a more apt comparison, especially given Sega's arcade games.

I said 3DO because like Sega they left the console hardware business to concentrate on software, True, Sega makes arcade machines (like Atari), but arcades are fading fast. I only know of one in my area.


Mark

[bangtango]

Whether or not they were big, I am somewhat surprised 3DO crapped out. Unlike Sega, 3DO kept the same head honcho around throughout their entire existence. Regardless of how qualified or competent Trip Hawkins was, their company was never in a state of flux like Sega seemed to be. There was never one person at Sega that someone could say consistently called the shots throughout the years. Uh, Kalinske? Stolar? Moore? Like him or not, when people think Sony they think Ken Kutargi. When people thought of 3DO, they thought of Trip Hawkins. How about Sega? Having a central figure associated with a company is hardly overrated.

Sure, 3DO had a history of poorly received games, layoffs and Trip's hot air that were common knowledge. However, I find it a little hard to believe they weren't able to survive a little longer and carve out some sort of niche.

As for Sega, whether or not they are a big company, there are two things that could solve all of their problems.

1. Start making "good" games again, or at least make them a little more often.

2. Give the fans more of what they want (old series, etc.) and this could go hand in hand with #1 above.

[retroman]

I hope Sega doesnt go anywhere....Hell, i dream of the day they come back to hardware.....just a dream, but hey.

[cessnaace]

I have to admit, I feel the same way you do. To me, its like working with a kid that has so much potential and never uses it.

Sega needs to make a real Phantasy Star game, and a real Shining force game. Oh, and another Streets of Rage and Beyond Oasis would be nice. Sega has lost a lot of its spark.

I was in a Wal-Mart the other day and tried a new Sonic game demo on the Xbox 360. I just couldn't get the hang of controling sonic in 3D, which was the problem I had with Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. Maybe it's my age (48). Those pesky youngsters and their new fangled games! LOL!


Mark

[cessnaace]

I hope Sega doesnt go anywhere....Hell, i dream of the day they come back to hardware.....just a dream, but hey.


I'm right there with you. Then again, I was recently rereading the Atari Jaguar Strategy Guide. In it there is an interview with one of the Jaguar's principal designers. He was working on the Jaguar's 2 AND 3 at the time. I wouldn't mind seeing Atari reenter the field. That's a huge longshot though. About as likely as a new Intellivision console.


Mark

[50s Brawler]

I'm as die hard SEGA as one can get, but I lost faith in them after they just plain flat abandoned the DC. Sure up until recently they were still licenscing out the GD-ROMS officially, and stuff was still coming out, but they just up and quit because not enough 3rd parties were putting stuff out on the console, from how I understood it. To me the DC shouldn't have officially died until at least 2003, and was much better IMO than the PS2, but that's just me. After the whole 32X fiasco though, they never really recovered and that's a shame. They (SEGA) know damn good and well that fans have clamored for...

Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder
Bare Knuckle 4
SUPER GT
Star Wars Trilogy Arcade
SHENMUE III

and many other titles for years, and do they listen? Nope, and when they tried to ressurrect the Golden Axe franchise it's some 3-D crap. Seems it took some talented bunch to come up with a proper BK/SOR sequel with "Streets of Rage Remake" instead of giving us a proper high resolution 2-D BEU. I'm all for buying up Hokuto No Ken on the import PS2 by SEGA, but aside from that, Sonic is older than the first serious wrinkle on my nut sack in terms of importance, and they need to do some work.

[udisi]

wow, what timing, I was just talking to my sega fan-boy best friend and we were talking about how sega had gone downhill so much. He being a huge sonic fan he's been pretty frustrated for the past decade or so. I went out to ask him to name one good sega game made in the past 5 years in which he could only answer panzer dragoon orta. Orta.
Although I agreed with him, Orta wasn't very main stream. My major point is Sega hasn't made anything spectacular in years, and have been living on remakes, crap sonic games, and the occassional monkey ball releases.
They had some neat games a few years ago in Rez and Orta, both marketed poorly(A sega trademark). Not wanting to place ful blame on Sega itself, my friend blames the failure of the label on the fact that they don't really exist anymore, and are owned and run by Sammy.

[ubersaurus]

Sega won't go down because the pachinko industry is still strong. Further, since Japanese arcades are still doing well, they're making their money on that side of the pond. We're boned on that front.

All of Sega's losses over the last year came from pachinko, not their games division. I'm not sure how either.

[Push Upstairs]

I've only really been impressed with "Outrun 2" (& Coast 2 Coast) within the past...oh...I dunno 12 years.

Sadly, I admit that I only enjoy for what they *were* not what they currently are.

Even though I'm not impressed with much of Nintendo's output, they still give fans what they want.

[cessnaace]

I'm as die hard SEGA as one can get, but I lost faith in them after they just plain flat abandoned the DC. Sure up until recently they were still licenscing out the GD-ROMS officially, and stuff was still coming out, but they just up and quit because not enough 3rd parties were putting stuff out on the console, from how I understood it. To me the DC shouldn't have officially died until at least 2003, and was much better IMO than the PS2, but that's just me.


Something you have to remember...Sega not only dosen't have deep pockets, ala Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft, their pockets have holes in them. At the time that Sega left the console business they were in debt to the tune of about $500 million! They were already losing money on every Dreamcast sold, so how could they support the Dreamcast without capitol?

Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft can afford to lose money on every console sold (in order to reap the third party royalties down the road), but Sega wasn't in that position. Sadly, I don't see them being able to reenter the console hardware market anytime in the foreseeable future. It requires deep pockets, good decisions, and luck. Sega seems to be lacking on all three fronts. This from a guy who owns EVERY SEGA PLATFORM except the Game Gear and Sega CD, although I have games for them too. I even have a boxed Nomad!!! Oh wait! I don't have a Pico! Damn! LOL!


Mark

[cyberfluxor]

udisi:
I too have a friend still hardcore into Sega and Sonic. He continues to buy in the Sonic franchise even though he knows it's crap and he won't like it. LOL He just wants all the Sonic and spin-off games, that's why he owns everything but the Pico.

I would love to see Sega one day become a big player again, even if it ended up in the software market.

[Snapple]

Sonic and the Secret Rings is getting a lot of good press right now. If the game becomes a blockbuster, which seems very possible, then how can you say Sega is spiralling out of control?

[MegaDrive20XX]

Oh this thread makes my heart ache :( I hate facing the music sometimes...

I just wish there was a positive answer to save Sega. I do admire how much they are focusing on just software, re-releasing Genesis games as download or software compliation disc. Talk of Saturn emulation on next-gen consoles (PS3 was mentioned last year, but who knows..)

I heard both my bosses trashing Virtua Fighter 5 today, which kind of broke my heart....saying the game's graphics were too much like VF4 and the button response was a bit slow. I still would like to play that game someday..

[GaijinPunch]

I hope not. The Atomiswave is probably one of the most powerful pieces of arcade equipment ever produced.

It is?
Quote from system16:

Notes : This is a standard dreamcast type spec, so has less power than the Sega Naomi.


Most mis-used is more like it. The system supports low-res and high-res, but instead of proper low-res games SNK (and most everyone else) interlaces their games w/ the same old regurgitated low-res sprites, resulting in a gigantic pile of shit. This system can't die fast enough.


saying the game's graphics were too much like VF4 and the button response was a bit slow. I

Probably too much "virtua" and not enough tits, a la DOA, etc. The game isn't meant to be flashy... it's "techy", and that's where it succeeds. It's always been misunderstood in the west though, so there comments come as no surprise. I will give them credit in that there isn't a big enough jump between it an VF4:FT... the graphics though... this is the biggest jump.

[MegaDrive20XX]

You know Gaijin, I bet you I will probably love VF5. Simply because I have never really had any dislikes about the series since I fell in love with it on my first Sega Saturn and in the Arcades.

I should have known better, because when my boss said he didn't like VF4 Evo..I knew he had to be drunk. (Not Shun Di good drunk, but like bad drunk)

[RadiantSvgun]

I was in a Wal-Mart the other day and tried a new Sonic game demo on the Xbox 360. I just couldn't get the hang of controling sonic in 3D, which was the problem I had with Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. Maybe it's my age (48). Those pesky youngsters and their new fangled games! LOL!


Mark

The Sonic on X360 is garbage from what I have heard. I did hear the Wii one is very good.

[GaijinPunch]

You know Gaijin, I bet you I will probably love VF5. Simply because I have never really had any dislikes about the series since I fell in love with it on my first Sega Saturn and in the Arcades.

I should have known better, because when my boss said he didn't like VF4 Evo..I knew he had to be drunk. (Not Shun Di good drunk, but like bad drunk)

After spending a LOT of money playing VF4 & VF4:Evo in the arcades (where do you think I got my sig name from?) I think I just got burned out. I left Japan a few months after FT came out, but I was done by then. I'm back in Japan, but if I'm in an arcade, I prefer to play Cave's latest shooting game, playing for score. It's much cheaper (I can stretch 400 yen over an hour at a 50 yen arcade on Mushihime-sama Futari), I get marginally less pissed off, and it's better for people NOT to be there (opposite for fighting games). I'll still pop in and say hi to the people I use to fight in the VF4 days (some are still around) but my gaming tastes, and lifestyle (I'm a father now) have definitly shifted. I have also heard a lot of old school VF'ers have retired as it's basically "the same old thing".

Graphically, it's amazing though. Also, I don't think the high cost of the Lindberg hardware can be helping the sales.

[The Plucky Little Ninja]

Man Phantasy Star Universe sure fell off the map after, what I thought, was a fair amount of hype. I didn't bother to pick it up because I never found myself getting into PS online all that much. I do miss those old Phantasy Star games.

Sega's shot.

And I seriously hope I end up eating my words on this one, but I can't help it. There's been a handful of decent games in recent years, but just look at how Sonic has fallen. This is how a company treats it's flagship series? At least I'll always have the Genesis.

[MegaDrive20XX]

After spending a LOT of money playing VF4 & VF4:Evo in the arcades (where do you think I got my sig name from?) I think I just got burned out. I left Japan a few months after FT came out, but I was done by then. I'm back in Japan, but if I'm in an arcade, I prefer to play Cave's latest shooting game, playing for score. It's much cheaper (I can stretch 400 yen over an hour at a 50 yen arcade on Mushihime-sama Futari), I get marginally less pissed off, and it's better for people NOT to be there (opposite for fighting games). I'll still pop in and say hi to the people I use to fight in the VF4 days (some are still around) but my gaming tastes, and lifestyle (I'm a father now) have definitly shifted. I have also heard a lot of old school VF'ers have retired as it's basically "the same old thing".

Graphically, it's amazing though. Also, I don't think the high cost of the Lindberg hardware can be helping the sales.

You know, I saw a topic over at ign.com entitled "Are fighting games dying?". Automatically I was upset, thinking "No it's not dead". Yet you bring up a very good point. I couldn't read this article from ign.com since you have to be a paying member. Yet I'm sure the article would probably talk about Tekken, Street Fighter, and ignore tons of other 2D and 3D games like usual.

Yet honestly, "The same old thing" is what sticks to mind. Depresses me a bit, that perhaps the fighting genre is coming to a hault. I look at my Dreamcast collection at times after playing my Wii or my 360...and I think "God, remember the good times I had with this baby?" and now..it's more so a shadow of what was once a great empire of fighting games and Arcade glory days.

Everyone I keep running into, who is not into fighting games, keeps bringing up Marvel Vs. Capcom 2...and I just roll my eyes....I still feel that was the death of 2D fighters for every common joe. Yet as for us, we had Guilty Gear..and tried to secretly carry on that legacy.

However, I heard that when the hype of 2D and 3D fighters have died in some countries. Many parts of South Korea still carry on this legacy and have tournaments. Which a good friend of mine has shown me countless videos of. Which impresses me alot.

I'm sorry for repeating myself like this, but since it's about Sega-Sammy as well... what will be the one game, the one title...to bring it all back from the dead?

No way in hell, can a person re-invent Street Fighter for the rest of us. It just can't be done. Yet look at Resident Evil...it managed to do so.

Yet, if they can bring major franchises like Mario into 3D...Zelda into 3D...make their millions....yet why can't this same formula work with our famous 2D fighters? In the eyes of die-hards...I would have to say,"Over my dead body"..which I am agreeing to 125% to never mess with 2D at all.

I still refuse to touch a 3D KOF..that is garbage to me...

From my point of view, Tekken still has this image of being the modern Street Fighter of today, while the real SF remains as a "Download shareware" or "$8 to $10 DL" sadly. Soul Calibur however, still has this overrated fan base...but I still think the DC and the Soul Calibur 3 on PS2 were some solid pieces of work and gameplay. I'll never agree to part 2, it was too commericalized.


Basically, I have to say, is where are these companies going now? Ignoring it all, just to be like the others? Another War based game? Another FPS? Action/Adventure galore? another GTA-Clone? More sports games? Tons and tons of more RPG's that you can shake a stick at? I am sensing a hint of death to the fighting games..

[nebrazca78]

I am a huge huge sega fan as many know, but I do not have alot of faith in the company. They truly have lost their way...The Sega that I was grown up on is dead.

Truthfully, the SEGA! we knew died when the Dreamcast was released. Although the DC is an awesome system (graphically) with some awesome games, it wasn't really a "Sega" machine. It had less buttons on the controller than the Saturn. It had a flaky name. It wasn't black. It just wasn't right.


Whether or not they were big, I am somewhat surprised 3DO crapped out. Unlike Sega, 3DO kept the same head honcho around throughout their entire existence. Regardless of how qualified or competent Trip Hawkins was, their company was never in a state of flux like Sega seemed to be. There was never one person at Sega that someone could say consistently called the shots throughout the years. Uh, Kalinske? Stolar? Moore? Like him or not, when people think Sony they think Ken Kutargi. When people thought of 3DO, they thought of Trip Hawkins. How about Sega? Having a central figure associated with a company is hardly overrated.


When Benie Stolar took over is when Sega as buried. Almost everything they've made since DC died is, taking that whole library into account, average at best.


I hope Sega doesnt go anywhere....Hell, i dream of the day they come back to hardware.....just a dream, but hey.

I don't really care if they come back as much as it would be great for SOMEONE to start making some really great games. There's so much potential there but they're pressured to make games for the lowest common denominator. Graphics are so great now they need to start focusing on the game content again like they used to. If Sega was the company that decided to do that, well, I would be ecstatic.


I'm as die hard SEGA as one can get, but I lost faith in them after they just plain flat abandoned the DC. Sure up until recently they were still licenscing out the GD-ROMS officially, and stuff was still coming out, but they just up and quit because not enough 3rd parties were putting stuff out on the console, from how I understood it. To me the DC shouldn't have officially died until at least 2003, and was much better IMO than the PS2, but that's just me.

Sega has abandoned every non-popular (not blockbuster in the case of the DC I guess) console in their history. Master System, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn and then DC. I was not surprised.


After the whole 32X fiasco though, they never really recovered and that's a shame. They (SEGA) know damn good and well that fans have clamored for...

Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder
Bare Knuckle 4
SUPER GT
Star Wars Trilogy Arcade
SHENMUE III

and many other titles for years, and do they listen? Nope, and when they tried to ressurrect the Golden Axe franchise it's some 3-D crap.

They never listened to hardcore fans for some reason. They also tried to be...to innovative I guess. They changed the formula that made the great games great. Golden Axe is nothing but a name if the game isn't true to the series. What ever happened to just adding more levels and better graphics to a great game? I know we all have games we've beaten that left us wanting more but a sequel never came out. Oh yeah, and didn't Bernie Solar kill every 2-D project he could as soon as he took over Sega? The entire industy has given up on 2-D for the most part.

[KingCobra]

Sega= Arcade Gaming in the overall sheme of the compony, a dead arcade world outside of Japan = bye-bye :(

VF games never could compete with the likes of Namco and Capcom on that front IMO, on the home console front, they were very good again in my opinion, but their hardcore style just didn't appeal to mainstream style of console gamers(arcade is another market altogether). They made a little headwave in the sports market but was short lived going against the likes of the corprate EA powers as EA just shut that shit down faster than you could shake a stick.

I guess I'd rank Sega in the likes of Atari/Williams and Bally, Great gaming comp's back in the day but a thing of the past now.

[GaijinPunch]

You know, I saw a topic over at ign.com entitled "Are fighting games dying?". Automatically I was upset, thinking "No it's not dead". Yet you bring up a very good point. I couldn't read this article from ign.com since you have to be a paying member. Yet I'm sure the article would probably talk about Tekken, Street Fighter, and ignore tons of other 2D and 3D games like usual.

Well, I generally don't believe anything written at IGN (or most big game publications to be honest). Most of their writers touch games on the surface, and don't really get their hands dirty.

Fighting games are definitely not dead. Every arcade has some, and they generally have people in front of them. Tekken 5 seems to be doing extremely well in the wake of VF5 (I've seen some places w/ more T5 cabs). There's a new 2d fighter called Arcana Heart out which is just beautiful, although it's very, very kawaii. Here (http://www.gamengai.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1565) is a thread on it at my forums w/ some info. They may not be what they used to be, but the shooting game scene isn't fairing nearly as well as the fighting game scene.

[le geek]

It may be the exception that proves the rule, but I thought Outrun2 and Outrun2006: Coast 2 Coast were both excellent. So much of the SEGA talent has moved on after Dreamcast (or rather after the first big push to be a 3rd party publisher) that it's not the company it used to be.

I'm resigned to the fact that we will probably never see Shenmue 3.

I'm still hoping for a Nights sequel.

Why they haven't made a Samba de Amigo sequel with the popularity of music games baffles me.

Cheers,
Ben

[mailman187666]

Here is what could save sega for the next few years or so in my opinion:

Nights 2 for Wii - it would work well with the wii remote and also would have been a good amount of years since the first one came out.

Shining Force 4 as a XBLA or PS3 network download - staying true to the original genesis versions, but an all new story with HD graphics, who says there can't be RPGs on XBLA.

Panzer Dragoon Saga PS3 - not only would it sell PS3 systems, but they could have beautiful visuals and so much more content on the disk.

Rez 2 - could pretty much go in any direction with this game, but I'm sure it would sell enough to profit from

non online phantasy star - people still like to play single player RPGs.

Eternal Champions - bring back those gorey overkills to a next gen system please.

and while making these surefire hits (granted they are made well) they could be releasing new and original games in hopes that they can get a spark of that same light they used to have. I want the old sega back as much as everyone else.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Well, I generally don't believe anything written at IGN (or most big game publications to be honest). Most of their writers touch games on the surface, and don't really get their hands dirty.

Fighting games are definitely not dead. Every arcade has some, and they generally have people in front of them. Tekken 5 seems to be doing extremely well in the wake of VF5 (I've seen some places w/ more T5 cabs). There's a new 2d fighter called Arcana Heart out which is just beautiful, although it's very, very kawaii. Here (http://www.gamengai.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1565) is a thread on it at my forums w/ some info. They may not be what they used to be, but the shooting game scene isn't fairing nearly as well as the fighting game scene.

I agree that IGN doesn't know the difference between red or blue if shot in the face with a paintball gun, when it comes to games.

I'm glad there is some type of activity going on. This 2D game you mentioned sounds pretty amazing.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Nights 2 for Wii - it would work well with the wii remote and also would have been a good amount of years since the first one came out.



I actually thought about this the other day after playing Sonic and the Secret Rings. The control setup would be perfect for Nights.

[RadiantSvgun]

I really think that Sega isn't properly marking, or the people who made games back in the day (Bare Knuckle. shining force 1, 2, 3) have quit.

Sega needs to realize that their fanbase is not the general public, (kids ect) but the hardcore gamer, and the sega fan of yesteryear. I'll elaborate later.

[Guru of Time and Space]

The Atomiswave is probably one of the most powerful pieces of arcade equipment ever produced.

That's funny.


Nights 2 for Wii - it would work well with the wii remote and also would have been a good amount of years since the first one came out.


Please tell me why NiGHTS on the Wii would be a good idea. We all know they were developing AiR NiGHTS in this way for the Dreamcast, but that never came about, and it had to be because of one reason or another...

I just don't see how NiGHTS on the Wii would be any better than on 360 or PS3 (I'd prefer 360...). It'd look worse and the only control you would have over the game is doing circles with the remote. Sounds not fun at all.

-GoTaS

[RadiantSvgun]

What I was saying earlier is that Sega needs to market better. Sega's fanbase is composed mainly of people like 50's brawler and such that love the old classics and the golden age of sega. If they would realize that, and market more to the hardcore, it might make them some decent profit. If people caught wind of a Streets of Rage IV, I'm sure a lot of people would crap their pants.

Or option #2.... Put more Atomiswave games on consoles. Dolphin blue, Neo Geo Battle Coliseum, Demolish Fist, Fist of the North Star, ect... give them releases stateside!

Or option #3. Reprint Panzer Dragoon Saga and Shining Force III. And sell one of them on ebay at a time. (Without telling the public its a reprint)

[Slate]

I don't see sega making a comeback anytime soon, Although a couple of the games that they released on the 360 (Condemned and Sonic) Have me convinced that they can still make some great games if they put some effort into it.

[bangtango]

When Benie Stolar took over is when Sega as buried. Almost everything they've made since DC died is, taking that whole library into account, average at best.

I agree. Only a moron would tell anyone who will listen that a system is "dead" while it is still being sold in stores. Even the Tramiels kept on claiming the Atari Jaguar was hot stuff until the day the merger with JTS happened.

[Melf]

Whether or not they were big, I am somewhat surprised 3DO crapped out. Unlike Sega, 3DO kept the same head honcho around throughout their entire existence. Regardless of how qualified or competent Trip Hawkins was, their company was never in a state of flux like Sega seemed to be.

3DO was doomed from the start. Creating a hardware platform that would be licensed out to developers, with no 1st party games? There was no way it would have been able to compete with Nintendo and Sony.


There was never one person at Sega that someone could say consistently called the shots throughout the years. Uh, Kalinske? Stolar? Moore? Like him or not, when people think Sony they think Ken Kutargi. When people thought of 3DO, they thought of Trip Hawkins. How about Sega? Having a central figure associated with a company is hardly overrated.

Hayao Nakayama was there seemingly forever, as has been Shinobu Toyoda, and Kalinske lasted for almost 6 years. Sega hasn't been as stable in management as Nintendo has, but it hasn't been as turbulent as other companies that were in much better financial shape.


udisi:
I too have a friend still hardcore into Sega and Sonic. He continues to buy in the Sonic franchise even though he knows it's crap and he won't like it. LOL He just wants all the Sonic and spin-off games, that's why he owns everything but the Pico.

I would love to see Sega one day become a big player again, even if it ended up in the software market.

Considering that Shadow the Hedgehog sold over a million copies, it's no wonder Sega doesn't listen to the hardcore gamer anymore.


Sega has abandoned every non-popular (not blockbuster in the case of the DC I guess) console in their history. Master System, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn and then DC. I was not surprised.

The Saturn lasted for almost 4 years, and the Master System almost 5 in the U.S. The other two were add-ons and not separate systems per se, so they were only going to be around as long as the main console (Genesis) was supported. One was released too early and the other was a corporate mess that never should have happened.


They never listened to hardcore fans for some reason. They also tried to be...to innovative I guess. They changed the formula that made the great games great. Golden Axe is nothing but a name if the game isn't true to the series. What ever happened to just adding more levels and better graphics to a great game? I know we all have games we've beaten that left us wanting more but a sequel never came out. Oh yeah, and didn't Bernie Solar kill every 2-D project he could as soon as he took over Sega? The entire industy has given up on 2-D for the most part.

Sega DID listen to hardcore gamers, which is why they no longer make hardware. Do you think casual gamers bought Seaman, Jet Grind Radio, or Shenmue? Those games, while excellent, simply didn't have mass appeal. Since they've gone multi-platform, they've actually become profitable for the first time in a decade. Hardcore gamers don't make companies money, casual gamers do. Just look at the Wii.

Also, Bernie Stolar had been shitting on 2D since he was at Sony. He only brought his horrible style of management with him to Sega, but he didn't create it there.


I really think that Sega isn't properly marking, or the people who made games back in the day (Bare Knuckle. shining force 1, 2, 3) have quit.

Sega needs to realize that their fanbase is not the general public, (kids ect) but the hardcore gamer, and the sega fan of yesteryear. I'll elaborate later.

Sega's fanbase may be hardcore, but its largest base of customers is casual. Who bought Otogi? Orta? No one, yet more than a million shlubs have bought Shadow the Hedgehog, and you can bet that the 360 and PS3 Sonic are going to sell well even though they suck.

The Sega we knew and love is dead. Accept it and move on. :(

[j_factor]

I don't understand why going multi-platform had to exclude Dreamcast, though. Why couldn't Super Monkey Ball be ported to Dreamcast too? Why couldn't VF4 be on DC? SNK did quite well supporting their little niche system for years while also releasing ports on more popular platforms.

Since abandoning the DC, only a few of their console games (read: Sonic) have sold better than their Dreamcast games did (at least in America). In 2000, Sega was the #6 game publisher in North America, and now, they're long off the top 10.

[cessnaace]

I don't see sega making a comeback anytime soon, Although a couple of the games that they released on the 360 (Condemned and Sonic) Have me convinced that they can still make some great games if they put some effort into it.


EGM recently reviewed Virtua Fighter 5 for the PS3. They gave it a 9.5. 10. And 9.5. Great scores!

Interestingly, Game Pro announced that Sega is working on at least two next gen games based on the Alien film franchises. They don't come out until 2009 though! I wonder were Sega got the money to pony up for such a big license?


Mark

[Snapple]

If Sega goes under, you know who I'll blame? EA.

Anyone who looks at any list of the best-selling games annually has probably noticed that Madden sells better than most game titles combined.

The NFL 2K series by Sega Sports was gaining a lot of popularity when EA grabbed the NFL license for themselves. By NFL 2K5, they had a product equal to or better than Madden, at a cheaper price. If Sega had been allowed to continue making NFL 2K games, the monstrous sales from that alone could keep the company afloat, even if they made 30 failed titles per year.

[dgdgagdae]

If Sega goes under, you know who I'll blame? EA.

Anyone who looks at any list of the best-selling games annually has probably noticed that Madden sells better than most game titles combined.

The NFL 2K series by Sega Sports was gaining a lot of popularity when EA grabbed the NFL license for themselves. By NFL 2K5, they had a product equal to or better than Madden, at a cheaper price. If Sega had been allowed to continue making NFL 2K games, the monstrous sales from that alone could keep the company afloat, even if they made 30 failed titles per year.

Then don't blame EA. Blame the NFL. They didn't steal an exclusive license, they purchased it. From a willing seller who helped them shut their competition out of the marketplace.

[JPeeples]

In the end, Sega only has themselves to blame for their falures. EA didn't force the Sega CD onto consumers who didn't want it, nor did they speedily release the Saturn when neither retailers nor consumers were prepared for it.

I don't see Sega becoming "the next 3DO", because 3DO wasn't as big an icon in the industry as Sega, and Sega does have numerous stellar franchises to fall back on like VF, Shenmue, Jet Set/Grind, Super Monkey Ball, and Yakuza. In some cases, like SMB and VF, they sell very well and can keep the company active. Sega's got a nice mix of IPs for hardcore and casual gamers right now, so they can please both markets and keep themselves active.

[j_factor]

EGM recently reviewed Virtua Fighter 5 for the PS3. They gave it a 9.5. 10. And 9.5. Great scores!

Interestingly, Game Pro announced that Sega is working on at least two next gen games based on the Alien film franchises. They don't come out until 2009 though! I wonder were Sega got the money to pony up for such a big license?

Sega has a tendency to make vague announcements like this and then never come out with the games. Am I the only one who remembers that Sega was supposed to be working on an original game with Michael Crichton? Am I alone in my recollection that they were involving John Woo in some sort of new game? Am I the only person left who still wants Carbondale to come out? And let's not forget Phantasy Star Trilogy for PS2, Clockwork Knight 3 for Gamecube, Liliput Kingdom for GBA, and so on.

[diskoboy]

I think Sega could make a turnaround if the American side took the company back over - or at least seperate themselves from the Japanese side of the company. It seems that all the mistakes that have been made, in recent years, were made by Sega of Japan.

And then the American side of Sega sat back, and took it sraight up the ass. Sega of Europe or America had absolutely no control over anything, and they just let Japan run them into the ground.

EDIT - And the only Sega game I see coming down the road, that I'd even be remotely interested in would be the new version of Alien Syndrome coming out for the Wii.

[xfrumx]

I think Wii is gonna help Sega a lot
Sonic and Alien Syndrome look real good.

I even liked Shadow the Hedghog it wasnt supposed to be a Sonic game and it isn't but it is still good.

They did some good DS stuff to like the Feel the Magic game. Sega is far from dead in my opinion

And we get Sword of Vermillion tomorrow on virtual console!!!

SO SWEET!

[cessnaace]

In the end, Sega only has themselves to blame for their falures. EA didn't force the Sega CD onto consumers who didn't want it, nor did they speedily release the Saturn when neither retailers nor consumers were prepared for it.

I don't fault Sega for releasing a CD-ROM drive for the Genesis (Sega CD). NEC did it back in the day, and as I recall, people were taking Nintendo to task for NOT releasing their promised CD-ROM drive for the SNES. Where Sega went wrong was in releasing all the crap FMV titles. Actally, not all of the FMV titles were from Sega. Developers just didn't know what to do with a CD-ROM drive back then.

They should have stuck with developing games for the Genesis and Sega CD until they had a console to compete with Sony and Nintendo. Maybe they were afraid of a repeat of the SMS days. They were late releasing it to the U.S. market. By the time they did Nintendo owned the U.S. console market. So, they rushed the Saturn out before it was ready.

They should never have bothered with the 32X.

And they should have continued the Game Gear line. A Backward compatible Game Gear, with improved specs and an advanced built in battery, would have at least given us an alternative to the Game Boy line of handhelds.

Mark

[Iron Draggon]

I've only really been impressed with "Outrun 2" (& Coast 2 Coast) within the past...oh...I dunno 12 years.

Sadly, I admit that I only enjoy for what they *were* not what they currently are.

Even though I'm not impressed with much of Nintendo's output, they still give fans what they want.

AGREED! all the new Sonic games are OK, but OR2C2C is the only one that even comes close to being great... figure it out, Sega... more Ferrari games!


Here is what could save sega for the next few years or so in my opinion:

Eternal Champions - bring back those gorey overkills to a next gen system please.

FOR REALZ! release the final chapter! it was supposed to launch with Saturn!

[Poofta!]

I'm surprised they're still around. I don't know why you're comparing Sega to 3DO. 3DO was never as big as Sega (or uhh, big). Atari might be a more apt comparison, especially given Sega's arcade games.

i agree. oh and i pretty much thought that sega already went the way of 3d0 lol....

i see one of the huge publishing or developing companies buying sega in the next few years.... microsoft, nintendo, sony or EA... ubisoft maybe.

[skaar]

I think Sega died when Segata Sanshiro gave his life so the Dreamcast could live.

[exit]

Ah poor Sega, I've been playing my DC again and I'm still surprised that it died the way it did. Well not really surprised, more like really disappointed. It's a great piece of hardware, with a good selection of games and great amounts of potential that will (sadly) never be used.

They could make a come back in the next few years, or they could just remain in the limbo that they've been in since the DC. It's really just how they play their cards.

[cessnaace]

i agree. oh and i pretty much thought that sega already went the way of 3d0 lol....



3DO ceased making hardware...then ceased. THAT was my question. Now that Sega has stopped making hardware (excepting their line of arcade machines), will they continue on as a software only company? Or, will they cease?

Atari was once HUGE too, AND they made arcade hardware too. Atari is not the Atari of old. It's been broken up into little bitty pieces. Will that happen to Sega, or does their merger with Sammy protect them from this fate?


Mark

P.S. Yes, I know 3DO never actually made any consoles. They licensed everything.

[bangtango]

3DO ceased making hardware...then ceased. THAT was my question. Now that Sega has stopped making hardware (excepting their line of arcade machines), will they continue on as a software only company? Or, will they cease?

Atari was once HUGE too, AND they made arcade hardware too. Atari is not the Atari of old. It's been broken up into little bitty pieces. Will that happen to Sega, or does their merger with Sammy protect them from this fate?


Mark

P.S. Yes, I know 3DO never actually made any consoles. They licensed everything.

Huh? Maybe I misunderstood this post. 3DO hung around for about 6-7 years making software for Sony and Nintendo consoles, such as PS2 and N64, after they discontinued the 3DO hardware. Around 1996 to about 2002-2003. Not a great run, both in sales and the quality of their games, but I know for a fact that most people assumed when the 3DO hardware was shut down that you'd never hear another word from 3DO again. I mean their brand name was total and complete crap after the console flopped like it did, so it had to have been pretty hard to convince gamers and the media to take the company seriously when they transitioned to making software and kept the 3DO name. So the fact they carried on a few years longer, making games without any 3DO hardware to support, was certainly unexpected.

Also, I thought Sega "stopped" making hardware, or at least supporting hardware, back in 2001-2002. In this case, I'm not counting what they've done in the arcade business or with the Dreamcast in Japan since 01 & 02. Sega is five or six years into this new stage of their business. They've had ups and downs focusing only on software but I don't see them falling off the map commercially. Artistically, yes. However, if they get in some serious financial trouble, I predict they will probably "rehash" or "revisit" some of those "big" series that they have been ignoring for what feels like ten thousand years and that fans have been clamoring for another installment of for about ten thousand years.

You'd have a hard time convincing me that they haven't at least mulled the idea of doing something with the SOR/Bare Knuckle, Panzer Dragoon (Saga), Shining Force, Golden Axe, etc. brand names. I just think they are sitting on some of this stuff until they are really desperate for cash and good press. The fact they haven't made a return to any of those wells makes me think that they are not ready to fold up their tent yet. You know how it is going to go. "Holy shit, we're in some real trouble. 8 or 9 months from now we may be out of business. Time to remake Panzer Dragoon Saga or do another Streets of Rage........."

It is as simple as that. I mean people can say the new Sonic games are total shit and maybe they are but somebody has to be buying them if they are still getting released. I can think of a couple dozen series, good or bad, that aren't around only because people stopped buying the new installments. So somebody is encouraging Sega to put out "bad" Sonic games and that someone is the average game buyer. The recent Sonic games may be a joke and get horrible reviews but they are apparently selling well enough that Sega is sticking around and releasing more games in the series. Since Sonic is working for them, there isn't much need for them to go back and dig up some of their series which are on an extended hiatus. Maybe diehard fans will start seeing some of the stuff THEY want from Sega once two or three Sonic games in a row totally tank at the register.

[cessnaace]

Huh? Maybe I misunderstood this post.




Well, either that or I haven't done a good enough job getting my question across. I'll try again.

Yes, I know that 3DO survived for quite awhile after their console flopped. They died, in my humble opinion, because they kept releasing one crappy Army Men game after another. In fact it seems that's ALL they were making. In the end tying their fortunes to just one franchise did them in. Sega has Sonic, but at least they make and/or publish more than just Sonic. To their credit.

It's just that I've been reading alot of horror stories on the net about how Sega is doing financially. Tie this in with the article I remember reading in one of the gaming magazines around the time of Sega's announcement that they were discontinuing the Dreamcast, where someone at Electronic Arts was preticting the same fate for Sega as befell 3DO. I seem to remember him comparing Sega's sports titles to Fords, while EA's sports games were BMWs. He was probably just full of hot air. I say this as a Sega fan. My SMS (Model 1) still sits atop my entertaiment center in the master bedroom, and my Dreamcast still sits hooked up in the livingroom along with our GameCube and V.Flash. Our Genesis, 32X, Saturn, and Nomad are boxed away nice and neatly in their original boxes, along with the PlayStation, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Atari Jaguar, NES(s), SNES(s), 3DO, Commodore 64(s) and my not-boxed Intellivision. I will NEVER sell any of my Sega systems. Well, actually, NONE of my systems. Period.

Has any of this made any sense? I tend to ramble. LOL!


Mark

[bangtango]

Huh? Maybe I misunderstood this post.




Well, either that or I haven't done a good enough job getting my question across. I'll try again.

Yes, I know that 3DO survived for quite awhile after their console flopped. They died, in my humble opinion, because they kept releasing one crappy Army Men game after another. In fact it seems that's ALL they were making. In the end tying their fortunes to just one franchise did them in. Sega has Sonic, but at least they make and/or publish more than just Sonic. To their credit.

It's just that I've been reading alot of horror stories on the net about how Sega is doing financially. Tie this in with the article I remember reading in one of the gaming magazines around the time of Sega's announcement that they were discontinuing the Dreamcast, where someone at Electronic Arts was preticting the same fate for Sega as befell 3DO. I seem to remember him comparing Sega's sports titles to Fords, while EA's sports games were BMWs. He was probably just full of hot air. I say this as a Sega fan. My SMS (Model 1) still sits atop my entertaiment center in the master bedroom, and my Dreamcast still sits hooked up in the livingroom along with our GameCube and V.Flash. Our Genesis, 32X, Saturn, and Nomad are boxed away nice and neatly in their original boxes, along with the PlayStation, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Atari Jaguar, NES(s), SNES(s), 3DO, Commodore 64(s) and my not-boxed Intellivision. I will NEVER sell any of my Sega systems. Well, actually, NONE of my systems. Period.

Has any of this made any sense? I tend to ramble. LOL!


Mark

Yep, it sounds better than what I originally responded to.

I remember that very same comparison you just mentioned. It was in either EGM, Gamepro or Game Informer.

EA can talk all the trash they want about Sega but they never had to develop games while they were trying to develop, promote and then market a console or, in some cases, two to three consoles at the same time. Sega did well to compete with various EA sports series considering they also had to worry about putting out quality Sonic games, fighting games and arcade-style games to help sell their gaming systems which were usually the underdog to someone else. It has to be damn hard to stay focused and keep good games coming when you're losing money hand over fist on a console, which seemed to be the case for a few of their systems, and have to do something about it to keep the ship afloat.

I mean EA is still capable of producing flawed sports games when, in some cases, they are sitting on an exclusive license and basically have all year to work on it. Give Sega credit for beating them in quality some years when the company was spread a little thin at times. Still they managed to trump a company that basically has a single minded focus on sports games at least a few times.

I don't have plans to sell any of my Sega systems, either. I have them all, well the major ones, except for the Master System.

[77punk]

SEGA is my love.. I want to play House of the Dead 4.... Besides that, they need to stop making games and start making hardware again.. its all about SMS!

[anagrama]

Just move to Brazil - they're still manufacturing SMS hardware over there ;)

[Melf]

You'd have a hard time convincing me that they haven't at least mulled the idea of doing something with the SOR/Bare Knuckle, Panzer Dragoon (Saga), Shining Force, Golden Axe, etc. brand names. I just think they are sitting on some of this stuff until they are really desperate for cash and good press. The fact they haven't made a return to any of those wells makes me think that they are not ready to fold up their tent yet. You know how it is going to go. "Holy shit, we're in some real trouble. 8 or 9 months from now we may be out of business. Time to remake Panzer Dragoon Saga or do another Streets of Rage........."

I think Sega already passed that point back when Isao Okawa gave it $732 million of his own money to bail it out. If that wasn't reason enough to tap the back catalog well, then I don't know what is. The fact that it's sitting on so many great franchises just means that management there is stupid, that's all.

[cessnaace]

Just move to Brazil - they're still manufacturing SMS hardware over there ;)

Goes to show how much I know. The last Brazil title I was able to track down for my SMS came out in 1997. Still, Sega was only two years away from launching Dreamcast in the U.S. (even less time than that in Japan) at that point. And the U.S. SMS will play most of these foreign releases to boot (sorry for the pun). I don't know about the System 3 (as I believe the SMS was known in Japan, at least to start with), but the emulator I have plays System 3 games just fine. System's 1 and 2 as well.

Playing System 3 games is odd, because they are in Japanese. Natch. The same goes for the Famicom. And some of the game concepts defy description (which is why I play them, ha ha). One, on the Famicom, combines pachinco with an RPG. I can handle the pachinco part, but as I don't read Japanese I can't read all that text. Plus, pachinco doesn't translate into a videogame as well as it's American cousin (pinball). Damn I miss my pachinco machine (I had one as a teenager way back in the 70's).

There I go rambling again! LOL!


Mark

[Rob2600]

I have to admit, I feel the same way you do. To me, its like working with a kid that has so much potential and never uses it.

Sega needs to make a real Phantasy Star game, and a real Shining force game. Oh, and another Streets of Rage and Beyond Oasis would be nice. Sega has lost a lot of its spark.

Why does the Streets of Rage series have as big of a following as it does? None of the games were great. They were mediocre Double Dragon and Final Fight clones.

I never understood why the Sonic the Hedgehog series became popular, either. The original Sonic the Hedgehog game was decent, but nowhere near as deep, polished, or innovative as Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Mega Man II, Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, etc.

[Rob2600]

I think Sega already passed that point back when Isao Okawa gave it $732 million of his own money to bail it out. If that wasn't reason enough to tap the back catalog well, then I don't know what is. The fact that it's sitting on so many great franchises just means that management there is stupid, that's all.

I imagine Sega should see at least a slight financial boost from partnering with Nintendo and releasing the Genesis catalog on the Wii's Virtual Console.

I hope this is only the beginning and that eventually the Master System, Game Gear, Saturn, and Dreamcast catalogs will be available too, either on the Wii or on Nintendo's next console.

[j_factor]

Why does the Streets of Rage series have as big of a following as it does? None of the games were great. They were mediocre Double Dragon and Final Fight clones.

I never understood why the Sonic the Hedgehog series became popular, either. The original Sonic the Hedgehog game was decent, but nowhere near as deep, polished, or innovative as Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Mega Man II, Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, etc.

What a silly post. "Why is X popular? It's actually mediocre compared to Y." There's virtually no content to that statement. Care to back anything up with, uh, actual points?

I find it somewhat odd to refer to Streets of Rage as a series of "Double Dragon and Final Fight clones" (much less mediocre ones at that). The original Streets of Rage far closer resembles Golden Axe in gameplay than any other beat 'em up.

Also, I have never once heard anyone refer to Donkey Kong Country 2 as innovative. Although I did enjoy DKC2, I fail to see how it has particular depth or any shred of innovation. Sonic 1 may not have been particularly innovative per se (seeing as the concept of speed/acceleration had been used in Psycho Fox), but to American audiences, it was something quite different at the time; a breath of fresh air. Everyone was used to platformers on NES, which consisted of slow and steady gameplay over levels comprised of obvious square tiles; Sonic had speed, curves, and a new "attitude".

I don't even know why I'm elaborating. Why is anything popular?

I've never understood why Donkey Kong Country 2 was popular. It was decent, but nowhere near as deep, polished, or innovative as Sonic the Hedgehog or Streets of Rage. :roll:

[Rob2600]

I have never once heard anyone refer to Donkey Kong Country 2 as innovative. Although I did enjoy DKC2, I fail to see how it has particular depth or any shred of innovation.

Many of the level designs in Donkey Kong Country 2 were innovative. Rare really outdid themselves with that game and it's one of their best. The levels where the water would rise and sink periodically were well designed. The fact that players could ride so many different animals and turn into different creatures was a nice touch, too. So was the ability for Diddy and Dixie to grab and throw each other. Overall, like Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, the levels weren't the standard, side-scrolling fare. It was a deep, artistic, and rewarding platformer.

[ShenmueFan]

Unfortunately, I don'tthink Sega will ever re-enter the game market as a hardware/system company --- I think after Sega went belly-up w/ the DC the board of directors/investors decided to permanently switch over to strictly software because even if the profits were smaller, they'd be consistent and there wouldn't be that threat of having to contstantly develop hardware or market a ton or anything like that.

You're seeing a significant drop in Sega quality now, over 5 years after they pulled the plug on teh DC because Sega can no longer make quick ports of DC titles and make a quick buck. They have to continue trying to make unique series (Otogi, Criminal Origins, etc.) or else all they WILL have is there Sonic license.

You and I know they are wasting the potential of not using NiGHTS, Streets of Rage, Shining Force, Panzer Dragoon, etc. but I couldn't say WHY Sega is just sitting there going "duh...."...................I mean, we can hope that Sega is secretly working on a new system but I think it's be pretty hard to hide nowadays with corporate/techie leaks and super high R&D costs. Plus, I don't think Sega could go up against Sony and win. I mean, the Sony fanboy legion
is just too great and Wii/360 is only standing a chance right now because Sony just so majorly screwed up in this round. If Sega came back, I'm thinking it'd be in a portable form, if ANYTHING...if EVER.

Finally, I think Sega just wants to make a tidy profit for its owners every year and any game besides Sonic is just too much of a gamble for them to worry about. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me.

I wouldn't say Sega is going the way of 3DO so much as it is going the way of SNK.

[Kid Ice]

3 pages in and I still don't get the analogy. Just because 3DO made a series of crappy Army Men games and Sega is making a series of crappy Sonic games is not a reason to make a comparison between to completely different entities. 3DO never had the success of a Sonic, has never had a successful franchise, and never produced a console. Sega has produced multiple systems throughout a storied history of successful game franchises, and owns a franchise character that still can be identified by almost every child in the world.

At best its like asking if McDonald's will become the next Geno's, at worst it's like asking if Jet Li will become the next Eddie Murphy.

[Push Upstairs]

Why does the Streets of Rage series have as big of a following as it does? None of the games were great. They were mediocre Double Dragon and Final Fight clones.

The later SOR games brought tighter, smoother, and all around better control to the genre than both the "Double Dragon" or "Final Fight" series ever did.

I played "Double Dragon" and I tried out all three FF games and none of them has the smooth control that SOR2 has.

[anagrama]

Goes to show how much I know. The last Brazil title I was able to track down for my SMS came out in 1997. Still, Sega was only two years away from launching Dreamcast in the U.S. (even less time than that in Japan) at that point. And the U.S. SMS will play most of these foreign releases to boot (sorry for the pun).

Well, there's been no new games since 1998, but TecToy still release a new version of the hardware every 1-2 years - the latest one has 120 built-in games but sadly no working cart slot this time (all the previous models had a cart slot).

[chrisbid]

the difference is

3DO put out crappy games that nobody bought at the end of their run

sega is putting out crappy games that people still buy