Ebay sellers are obligated to accept all payment types - WTF???

[Anthony1]

I have two PayPal accounts. One of them is the premier account, that accepts credit card payments, the other one is a regular normal PayPal account that doesn't. I've been using my regular PayPal account lately, (the one that doesn't accept credit card or debit card payments) because I hate the fact that PayPal charges fees for "ANY" payments received on the premier account. For the longest time I didn't know that PayPal charged fees for all kinds of payments once you have a premier account. Even non credit card or debit card ones. I was fine with them charging fees for the incoming credit card and debit card payments, but I thought it was bullshit that they were charging fees for the other payments that you aren't normally charged for if you have a normal regular paypal account.

So anyways, I've been using my 2nd account, the normal one, and I sell some GameBoy color games, and this lady of course tries to pay me with a Credit Card. I go to my PayPal account to Deny the payment, but the Deny button is unhighlighted, and it won't let me click on the deny button. The only thing I can click on is the accept button. When I put my mouse over the deny button it says:

Ebay sellers are obligated to accept all payment types

So now, the money has to sit in limbo for like a month before it is automatically credited back to the buyers account. What the Fuh is up with that? Is PayPal actually forcing people to upgrade their accounts now? I don't get it. Or is this because I have two accounts, and they know it? Are they forcing me to use only one account? PayPal is really getting on my damn nerves.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I have two PayPal accounts. One of them is the premier account, that accepts credit card payments, the other one is a regular normal PayPal account that doesn't. I've been using my regular PayPal account lately, (the one that doesn't accept credit card or debit card payments) because I hate the fact that PayPal charges fees for "ANY" payments received on the premier account. For the longest time I didn't know that PayPal charged fees for all kinds of payments once you have a premier account. Even non credit card or debit card ones. I was fine with them charging fees for the incoming credit card and debit card payments, but I thought it was bullshit that they were charging fees for the other payments that you aren't normally charged for if you have a normal regular paypal account.

So anyways, I've been using my 2nd account, the normal one, and I sell some GameBoy color games, and this lady of course tries to pay me with a Credit Card. I go to my PayPal account to Deny the payment, but the Deny button is unhighlighted, and it won't let me click on the deny button. The only thing I can click on is the accept button. When I put my mouse over the deny button it says:

Ebay sellers are obligated to accept all payment types

So now, the money has to sit in limbo for like a month before it is automatically credited back to the buyers account. What the Fuh is up with that? Is PayPal actually forcing people to upgrade their accounts now? I don't get it. Or is this because I have two accounts, and they know it? Are they forcing me to use only one account? PayPal is really getting on my damn nerves.

It's been like this for years, with Premier accounts. But are you saying that you accepted a payment from an eBay buyer with a personal account? You can't do that. The account gets upgraded to Premier automagically.

[Anthony1]

It's been like this for years, with Premier accounts. But are you saying that you accepted a payment from an eBay buyer with a personal account? You can't do that. The account gets upgraded to Premier automagically.


I didn't know it was like that with premier accounts until FABombjoy told me about it. But once I knew, I was pretty pissed. He told me that he just uses two accounts to deal with this. One for credit card payments, and one for other payments. So taking his lead, I opened up a second, regular, PayPal account. I "DID NOT" accept the payment. I don't want that one to be upgraded to premier. I want it to stay the way it is. But why won't it let me DENY the payment? Whenever I highlight Deny, it just says that Ebay sellers are obligated to accept all payment types. I've never seen that before. So I guess the only way to get around it now, is to just let the money sit in limbo for like a month before it's refunded to the customers Paypal account.

[FABombjoy]

That's bizarre... not being able to deny. Way to go, Paypal!

I do have 2 accounts, but I only use the Premier account for eBay, mainly because of the aforementioned policy. If I sell stuff person to person I'll use the personal account, but that's the only time.

[Logicdustbin]

I just use the premier account on eBay, I don't want to try and explane to the buyer the differance between the 2 accounts.

but when I sell here on the forums, I ask for the buyer to use the normal if they have a strieght money transfer.

BTW - before setting up the normal accound, I searched paypal's web site, they allow 2 accounts, but I think they need to different bank accounts to go into...

[Vroomfunkel]

If she entered an ebay item number in the payment details when she made the payment, then Paypal will know that the payment is for an eBay auction. If you have Paypal listed as a payment option in the auction, then you've got no comeback to them.

It is pretty outrageous, but then they have the monopoly and can therefore do whatever the hell they like.

[scorch56]

You must have missed the notice they sent out to everyone (not being sarcastic.. they did); but seriously.. it only started a little over a year ago. There was a public outcry at the time and most people thought it was simply a way to get everyone to switch over to business or premier accounts. Of course.. public outcries to evilBay or PukePal go largely ignored as we all know. Truth is PayPal was simply getting tired of so many people circumventing fees (even though it was their own system that made it possible) by either doing what you're doing (two accounts) or simply by using their accounts and always stating in their auctions that they don't accept cc or bank transfers through their PP account. They said it was getting "rampant" on eB (which it was) and they were doing it for the sake of their "buying" public. We all know when it comes to eB and PP the bottom line is $ and any time they see missed or lost revenue.. is the only time they act on anything.

Having said all of that.. I've never understood why people get so upset over any of it. Quite frankly.. I switched over to a premier account5 years ago.. a year after I joined PP. Sure I get charged for every "kind" of transaction when I sell.. but that's the price of doing business through eB AND PP. Whenever anybody pays me in any way, shape or form anymore.. it always shows up as an instant payment and PP charges me a fee, but I've never had anyone file a chargeback either (..yet.. even that's inevitable). Believe me.. NObody hates these two entities more than I.. but it's like dealing with the devil and I never understand why people complain when THEY signed the terms with them (unless they're just not reading them). The terms say.. basically eB and PP can change whatever they want.. whenever they want (just like the CC companies).. and they often DO.

As soon as I finish selling off my collection.. I'm going to tell both eBay AND PayPal to "f*ck off" (literally.. it may be a lengthy letter). Will they care? I'm one little fish in an ocean.. not in the least. But I can't wait.. I'll get years of frustration off my chest.. and I'LL feel better for it. That will be a happy day for me.

[Anthony1]

OH crap! I had no idea that there was a change in the policy. On my Ebay auctions I have a special message that says something like this:


Notice to PayPal Customers: If you are paying via Paypal, please be aware that I have a regular, normal PayPal account, and I cannot accept Paypal payments that are funded by a credit card or debit card.



Fuck, I wonder if they are going to suspend my account or something.

[scorch56]

OH crap! I had no idea that there was a change in the policy. On my Ebay auctions I have a special message that says something like this:


Notice to PayPal Customers: If you are paying via Paypal, please be aware that I have a regular, normal PayPal account, and I cannot accept Paypal payments that are funded by a credit card or debit card.



Fuck, I wonder if they are going to suspend my account or something.

At the time the notice came out they didn't say that they would actually suspend you, but that they were asking for the cooeration of everyone to put that sort of listing message to an end (Which is why I rarely even see it anymore.).

Having said that.. if any of those "get-a-life", loser-assed, "shut-in in their parent's basement".. voluntary "eBay police" types see it.. they could report you, but I doubt if they'd act so harshly.. so quickly. I'd bet they'd simply warn you and ask you to remove the statement. That's how they were handling it way back when.

[Cornelius]

So you can no longer sell on ebay with a regular PayPal account?

[ryborg]

I've never understood why people get so upset over any of it. Quite frankly.. I switched over to a premier account5 years ago.. a year after I joined PP. Sure I get charged for every "kind" of transaction when I sell.. but that's the price of doing business through eB AND PP.

Yeah, same here. This is why I was forced to include handling fees on all transactions. I remember I was actually able to charge the exact amount of shipping in 98-01. Not so much anymore.

There is a way to still use two accounts effectively. Link your main PP account to ebay like normal, but offer a 1-5% discount if they manually pay to your Personal Account. This way, the savings get split between you and the customer, and not PP. Not too many people take you up on the offer, but any penny I can take away from PP is a penny well earned.
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[scorch56]

So you can no longer sell on ebay with a regular PayPal account?

Although nobody officially can stop you from doing it.. and it's not prohibited.. the minute your first customer uses it and tries to pay you with a method your regular account can't or won't accept (and I don't know those limitations because as I said.. I dropped my regular account 6 months into my PP membership) you're going to come up against this issue. Ending up with a choice.. upgrade or refund the money.. like Anthony1's doing.

This HAS been discussed in the past and several options had been proposed about how to handle it.. although in Anthony1's case.. I'd think that waiting an entire 30-days to "auto-refund" the buyer's money back is going to result in one pissed off prospective customer. Other people said that they simply wouldn't make that statement in their auctions anymore but would simply let the buyer pay and deal with it afterwards through correspondence.. asking the buyer to either pay by their methods (which means you have to intercept them BEFORE they pay) or not. Or simply take their chances hoping everybody pays with PP funds on hand only (HIGHly unlikely).

To me.. it's not worth the hassle.. alienating prospective customers from even future purchases. Having a premier account.. I really don't think PP charges you any MORE for a cash or funds balance transfer than a bank debit or cc one.. but honestly.. I don't know. Whenever I sell something on eB.. 99% of the time PP payment is the ONLY option I offer. Like I said.. people then can pay me ANY method they choose and quite frankly.. I DON'T scrutinize even MY charges/fees. The only time I'd ever even see them is when I go into the transaction's details to get a shipping address. I have noticed that ALL of my payments always say "instant transfer" and i seriously doubt that each and every one of my customers is paying me with PP funds (In fact.. I'd say that has to be the least used method simply by the nature of what IT IS.).

I list something on eB.. it costs me money.. I accept payment through PP.. it costs me money. That's all I can really tell you. I don't watch crap to the penny. When I sell something I look at how much money I got after everybody got their "pound of flesh" and that's all I'm concerned with.. period.. how much money do I now have to add to my income. It's just the cost of doing business.

I think I sat down once and very quickly (didn't even have to use paper) figured that for every listing I sell on eBay.. the listing, FVF's and PP cut amount to about 10% total of my selling price. I DON"T even then "jack-up" the price of BINs and such.. to cover that.

Lately though.. I must admit I HAVE started taking my final desired price in a BIN and asking 60% of it in the BIN price and 40% in S&H (so eB doesn't get that much) and I have to say that DOES make a difference (My bill was only $25 last month and it could have been around $60 otherwise). We discussed this as well a few weeks back.. while most bidders/buyers whine & cry about not paying exact S&H (DP members.. most of them.. are notoriously cheap.. they'll cry over 15 cents for gawds sake) I make it clear in my auctions that they SHOULDN'T expect it from me and it's worked out just peachy keen for me.. no complaints in the 8 weeks since I've started this (Although I'd venture to say I haven't sold anything to a memeber here either).

I DID notice a few weeks back that PayPal is now charging me an extra fee whenever I sell anything outside the US and inquired about it here. It's only a few cents more than not.. someone said "just raise the shipping international charge to make up for it" (DP member ;)). Nope.. gimme' a break.. it's a few more CENTS. I guess Ebenezer Scrooge I'm not.

[Cornelius]

Yup, pretty much agree with all of that. I actually have always had a premier account, I just find it totally absurd that ebay/paypal have an account type that can't be used in practice. I guess people use paypal for other stuff, but I imagine that is a very small fraction.

I really don't get why people get so worked up over high shipping prices. When buying you just look at the cost to get it to your door, the auction close price is pretty meaningless. I'll never bid on something that doesn't list a shipping charge unless I've contacted the seller and gotten a quote. I'm actually having to relist something because I had somehow missed putting in the shipping charge, and I won't run an auction like that.

I've tracked my costs a bit, and for my items that sell between 5 and 50 it is between 12 and 15% that go to ebay and paypal. The more something sells for, the smaller that percent will become, of course. I'm going to start letting things sit on CL a bit longer when I'm not in a hurry.

[udisi]

Yup, pretty much agree with all of that. I actually have always had a premier account, I just find it totally absurd that ebay/paypal have an account type that can't be used in practice. I guess people use paypal for other stuff, but I imagine that is a very small fraction.

I really don't get why people get so worked up over high shipping prices. When buying you just look at the cost to get it to your door, the auction close price is pretty meaningless. I'll never bid on something that doesn't list a shipping charge unless I've contacted the seller and gotten a quote. I'm actually having to relist something because I had somehow missed putting in the shipping charge, and I won't run an auction like that.

I've tracked my costs a bit, and for my items that sell between 5 and 50 it is between 12 and 15% that go to ebay and paypal. The more something sells for, the smaller that percent will become, of course. I'm going to start letting things sit on CL a bit longer when I'm not in a hurry.

Two thngs I see here I agree with

1)I also don't understand why people get pissed about high shipping. As long as it's posted in the auction, it's right there and I take it into account when bidding. The only time I get pissed is after the auction ends and a seller tries to jack up the shipping price.

2)For items that sell between $5-$50, ebay/paypal gets %12-%15...This pisses me off, first because %15 is no small percentage and 2nd, those percentages get worse on cheaper items. I'd love to list some nes manuals but it's just not worth all the fees to sell a $1-$2 manual. Also this fact stops others from listing cheap itemas and games. I'd love to be able to buy some nes manuals on ebay, but because of the fees you can buy individual manuals for less than $3-$5 after people add s&H to make up for fees.

[Anthony1]

I'm sorry, but I guess I'm going to have to be the cheap ass bastard in this discussion, because I think all the damn fees are ridiculous. I was selling on Ebay for over a year with a regular standard PayPal account, and often times people would pay the wrong way via PayPal, even after my warnings, but it was usually handled pretty quickly, and didn't turn into a big deal. The only time I decided to upgrade my account to premium is when I was forced to, because I hit some kind of financial limit of how much money you are allowed to receive in a month or something. I was selling a Xbox 360 during the launch of the Xbox 360, and I had to upgrade to premium.


Had that never happened, I still would have been doing the same dam thing I was always doing. The really stupid part of it, is that PayPal could easily handle this on their end if they wanted to. When the buyer goes to pay for the item, and they choose to fund it with a credit card or debit card, PayPal could notify the buyer before they clicked on the "Pay" button. They warn the buyer that this customer has a standard PayPal account, and would have to upgrade to a premier account to accept this kind of payment. You should contact the seller and check with them before funding your payment with a credit card or debit card.

I mean, how freaking easy and simple would that be? I think it would be easy as pie. Of course, it would mean less money for PayPal, so obviously that's why they've never done it.

Fuck Ebay and Fuck Paypal, I'm going to try to pinch every fucking penny I have and I don't give a damn.

[scorch56]

I really don't know where you guys get your figures.. but it's all spelled out right HERE (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html), and if you don't believe me.. just grab your calculators and follow along with me.. it's simple.

First.. let's figure out JUST the FVF on an item that sells for $50. As the chart says 5.25% of the first $25.01 equals $1.31 (they even GIVE you that figure in the next box down). (25.01 X .0525= 1.313025) Now you have the remaining $24.99 to figure. OK.. that's at 3.25%. 24.99 X .0325= 0.812175.. or $0.81. Add $1.31 to $0.81 and you get $2.12. What percentage of $50 is $2.12? 4.24%.. that's HARDLY 12% to 15% and I'm using YOUR examples.

But we're NOT done.. let's get a total and make it worst case.. if you started that auction that ended at $50 at $0.01.. granted.. evilbay's gonna' charge you a $0.20 listing fee just to list it.. but like I said.. let's figure worst case. Let's say you simply put up a BIN auction at $50. Let's even say you decide to list at $50 instead of $49.99 (Bad decision.. but I'm not gonna' fuddle with the price to reinforce my point, there's a cut-off at $49.99 where the listing fee doubles at $50.). Listing fee for a $50 item is $2.40 and then there's a BIN fee of $0.25; together it cost $2.65 to list said item.

That's it for eBay's cut after the auction's over. Total it all up. $2.12 + $2.65 = $4.77. 4.77 / 50 = .0954 or 9.5% at the worst, of the total.

Like I said.. I'm NOT a penny-pincher.. but when I DO list.. I always refer to this fee page and keep it open while I'm listing. It reminds me of a few things:

A) Watch the cut-off point for listing ranges. NEVER list anything at $1, 410, $25 or $50 (it goes on.. of course). If you do.. you're losing money. Drop the price a penny and catch the tail end of the next lower tier ($0.99, $9.99, $24.99 & $49.99). The first three tiers are 20, 40 and 60 cents.. but then it doubles up to $1.20 for $25 to $49.99 (big difference there). You DO get more discounts as the price goes up. Not to mention that it's always been known that there's a psychological advantage of $X.99 over $X+1.

B) Reserves are spendy.. but get refunded IF an item sells. BIN at the same price are a LOT cheaper.. but don't get refunded.

C) Now that you know how it works.. you're correct.. it DOESN'T do any good to list something like a game manual.. that you KNOW won't fetch more than $5 tops.. no matter whether you start it a t a penny.. OR a dollar...

Which is why MOST dealers would make such an item at a BIN of only a penny or $0.99 tops and overcharge for shipping of $4.99.

It seems like I always end up playing the devil's advocate and in this case.. it's true.. evilbay IS evil; like I said.. NO ONE hates them more than I do, but there's no other viable alternative. Oh sure if the entire eB populace moved en masse' over to Yahoo auctions in one night.. it would be different.. but this is the real world. It's the price you pay.. but that price is not as high as most of you believe.. me thinks some of you are exaggerating just a tad.

Nowdays.. here's what do. I wanna' sell something for $50? I list a BIN at $24.99 and charge $25.01 for "flat-rate" shipping. Auctiva's been a god-send for me the last three months. They allow me to make a "seller details" template where I can make my terms and explain everything. I can then insert that into each auction.. saving time. here's what mine says about shipping.. verbatim:


"My shipping charges are flat-rate and include materials, handling and transportation fees. I DO NOT charge exact postage only. You pay what is quoted.. by estimate. I do not possess a postal scale so my quotes are usually estimates. If it costs more than I quote.. I "eat" the difference. If it costs a little less.. I don't refund the difference. It's that simple.. so PLEASE factor the stated cost of S&H into what you are willing to bid and don't complain if you see lower postage on your item than what you paid.

I oftentimes do combine shipping on lot purchases of items; but if you don't see it mentioned in the auction.. that particular item is not eligible. I let eBay figure combined shipping when I option it as I don't have the time. I will consider negotiating non pre-discounted items on an individual basis.. but only for larger bulk purchases. The nature of what I sell (quality and hard-to-find retro-video games, 98% of which are "complete") usually dictates that 98% of my sales are single items. People who want shipping discounts on two or three items are usually the kind of people who want to pay EXACT shipping also and as I stated.. I can't provide that."

It's ALL spelled out there in black & white. I don't think it's rude.. and to date and in the last 3 months since I've started using the method I described above.. I've had NO complaints. I DID have one guy e-mail me (not PM through eB.. I like to think he was smart enough to be discrete) and ask if there was a typo in my shipping charges AFTER he had already bought a copy of Vasteel for $24.99 and $25.01 in S&H and paid for it. I politely explained to him about eBay fees I also told him that Vasteel normally went for $75 on eB (he knew that.. which is why he snatched up my auction in less than 8 hours after listing.) and that he got it.. in essence for $50 total. Last I heard from him.

And lastly.. let's see what Paypal charges me for a US sale on that $50? Well.. PukePal doesn't care how much you get in cost of the item OR shipping. Their cut comes out of the total.. so "the game" doesn't work or apply to them.. but here's what it says inside PP for those who can't get to it:


Receive payments funded by PayPal Balance, PayPal Instant Transfer or PayPal eCheck:

Personal Account

Free

Premier/Business Account

1.9% to 2.9% + $0.30 USD


Receive payments funded by Credit Card, Debit Card or Buyer Credit:

Personal Account

4.9% + $0.30 USDhttps://www.paypalobjects.com/WEBSCR-450-20070307-3/en_US/i/scr/dagger2.gif (limit of 5 transactions per 12 month period)**

Premier/Business Account

1.9% to 2.9% + $0.30 USD

** Personal accounts may not receive payments funded by credit card, debit card or Buyer Credit for eBay or eBay Express transactions without upgrading to Premier or Business accounts.

So what I'm assuming this means is that personal accounts ARE allowed to accept cc and debit cards.. as long as it's NOT for an eBay transaction, no more than 5 times in a year.. PLUS you guys actually would be charged a higher rate than we business/premier members if you DID! (All the more reason to switch.. IMHO). now.. the Rate IS variable (1.9% to 2.9%) but digging deeper into the rate schedule lead me to a figure of 2.9% + $0.30 USD for the first mothly sales of $0.00 USD-$3,000.00 USD.

So.. once again.. 50 X .029= $1.45.

Finally.. let's get a grand total for a $50 BIN sale paid with through PayPal. $4.77 in eB fees + $1.45 in PP fees = $6.22. Which is 12.44% of your money.. tops.. in a worst case scenario.

Of course ALL rates drop even more as prices and volume of sales goes up.

Please understand me.. like I said.. I'm NOT trying to defend eBay OR PayPal.. I would be happy as shit if they would ever lower their rates.. all I'm saying is it isn't as bad as some think.. and once you learn good selling tactics.. you can make it even cheaper for you.

Lastly.. if it ALL bothers you that much there's one easy solution.. go back to money orders only.. through "snail mail".. but nobody WANTS to do that anymore because they all want all options. It works both ways.. I.. as a seller.. don't even bother with a MO only auction. I think I sent my last MO well over a year ago.. it's always such a pain in the ass to go into town for a money order for a frickin $5, but that's people for you.. we all want our cake..

[Cornelius]

Ummm... long post to show that my % is pretty accurate and NOT exagerrated, but thanks. Yes, I include all fees ebay and paypal when I figure my costs. Doesn't make sense to do it any other way.

My only real gripe with the system is how paypal and ebay are connected so closely. I believe this allows them to charge higher fees than they otherwise would be able to and prevents competition in this segment. Sure, I'll bitch and moan about ebay fees and all, but that's what I'm really concerned about.

[ryborg]

words words words

Well said.
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[Kitsune Sniper]

Yup, pretty much agree with all of that. I actually have always had a premier account, I just find it totally absurd that ebay/paypal have an account type that can't be used in practice. I guess people use paypal for other stuff, but I imagine that is a very small fraction.

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