Why has Gran Turismo gotten progressively more boring?

[dethink]

I loved the first one. I don't think I've played a game as much as the original GT.

By the time the second came out, I was in the midst of Dreamcast fever, and didn't give it much time. When #3 hit the PS2, it was the reason I bought one.

I sat down with 4 today since it kind of fell into the same "semi-ignored" sport as #2 due to when it came out, and the GTHD demo left me wanting more. I couldn't even bear to make it through the license tests...then it dawned on me:

THESE GAMES ARE FARKING BORING!

This is coming from someone who is a obsessive compulsive car guy.

The horrid braindead AI...the improved then unimproved physics (if GTHD's "asphalt made of marbles" handling is where they're headed for 5, count me out)...the constant cycle of unlocking and doing horrendously boring races over again to get to something fun or farm money...trying to constantly ensure the car isn't too powerful so the race doesn't become "The Real Lapping Sim", or not powerful enough so you never have a chance...

Forza falls in the same boat.

Why can't someone make a game with a huge selection of licensed cars, physics as realistic as they can get them considering the number of models the engine has to calculate for (I understand it's not going to be uncanny like doing a single car, a la F355 Challenge), loads of good tracks, some sort of career mode based on a series of challenges (not money farming), and call it a day? No more tuning menus that have no bearing on real life numbers...no more stupid tacked on ricer garbage (drift modes, body kits, etc.)...no more hours and hours of unlocking things to get to the meat of the game I paid for...

Maybe it's because I've spent a few days with F1 CE and Motorstorm, but it's just NICE to be able to jump into the meat of the game without having to play it like a second job. The original GT struck a nice balance between pick up & play/catering to obsessive people. There wasn't a 75 license test barrier to entry like we have now...

Bah! Someone make a fun realistic driving game based on normal street cars and sports cars! :D

[swlovinist]

I think that the racing type game has evolved alot in 10 years. There are so many choices for racing, and games like Burnout 3 show that a game does not have to be realistic to be fun. Motorstorm is another example of a Burnout style game that is just fun to play. Honestly if you want to know the core gamer that is going to still love Gran Turismo it is auto mechanics. I have some friends who just love Gran Turismo and there is no stopping it. They will even spend hundreds of dollars to customize their steering wheels so that it can withstand some serious abuse!

[Muscelli]

I hate all those "realistic" sims.. They suck in my opinion cuz they arent fun. Whats the point in playing it if you get bored with it?

Though the physics aren't 100% dead on, Outrun 2006:coast2coast is an awesome game. It is just plain fun, lots of unlockables, no tuning junk, and TONS of replay value.

[zektor]

You know, racing games are (next to shooters) my favorite types of games. BUT, I never got into the GT series. I played one of the games once (can't remember which one) and I couldn't control the vehicle for crap. Maybe I just needed more practice, but I had such a bad taste in my mouth with my initial play that I never did try again. Well, I did recently, in the form of the GT4 HD concept PS3 download. Played that for a few minutes, control felt like crap once again, and I quickly deleted the download.

Naw, my game is Ridge Racer. Yeah, unrealistic physics, but I can jump in, ride fast, and have actual fun. Motorstorm is quickly becoming a favorite of mine as well. Unless the new GT gives me the good control feeling, this may be yet another one I'll pass on.

[dethink]

I have no problem with "realism"...I love F1 on the PS3, plus games like the TOCA, Colin McRae, etc. series of games, as well as your Ridge Racers, Burnouts, etc. - I think the main difference is the only barrier to entry there is skill, rather than just slogging through filler.

I don't see repetition to learn the game as tedious, as some would. To me trying to get that F1 car around the course in one piece is the same as trying to get all 4 ghosts on every power pellet. I guess I have no problem with a learning curve, but I do with a tedium curve. hehe...

Just for reference I popped in the original GT, and once I got over the fact that my cell phone can probably render a more realistic looking car nowadays, and in comparison, you can practically jump into the career mode in a few minutes.

And for the record, the physics in the GT:HD demo are atrocious compared to the previous games. While the other games had their flaws, and Forza got some other things right GT didn't and vice versa, GT's devs always made sure the car/pavement connection and differences between cars feel as "right" as possible using a joypad. With the HD demo however, a stock Miata on RACE TIRES shouldn't drive like a 300hp car on nice. Why Polyphony, why!?

[shoes23]

The horrid braindead AI...

You hit the nail on the head. I used to be a huge GT2 fan, and at the time the AI didn't rub me the wrong way, but since 3 & 4 nothing seems to have been done with AI. They all act like slot racers and never vary from their selected paths. You can come to a complete stop on the finish line and wait, and the AI cars will just ram into instead of moving to avoid the collision. It's all about pumping your car up with horsepower and just outrunning your computer opponents. The AI needs a serious overhaul and some actual intellegence.

[Gillian Seed]

I think for a lot of us, or at least me, the problem has to do with our age. When the first GT came out I was in High School and had been obsessed with cars all my life. I also think the second GT is probably the best true racing game ever. Sitting there and doing the license tests, endurance races, and other tedious things, used to be fine when I lived in my parents house and had nothing to do but play. Now at 25, (still obsessed with cars) when I sit down and play a racer all I want is for it to be fun, exciting, and have a decent choice of licensed cars.

The PS2 GTs left me cold, they recycled too many of the tracks and made it somehow less charming. I also think that there needs to be more games which are a better compromise between GT and funner pick up and play racers. I think that we need to do away with some of the ricey, nitrus, and superficial customization based games. I really think that the fast and the furious' negative impact on today's racing games cannot be understated.

Some of my fondest memories of racing games are playing the first NFS games. For the time it had, realistic graphics, physics, licensed cars, and the option of driving with or without traffic. I would love to see a larger, modernized, more open ended version of something like this today.
Any ideas of something similar today?

[Captain Wrong]

The horrid braindead AI...You hit the nail on the head. I used to be a huge GT2 fan, and at the time the AI didn't rub me the wrong way, but since 3 & 4 nothing seems to have been done with AI. They all act like slot racers and never vary from their selected paths. You can come to a complete stop on the finish line and wait, and the AI cars will just ram into instead of moving to avoid the collision. It's all about pumping your car up with horsepower and just outrunning your computer opponents. The AI needs a serious overhaul and some actual intellegence.

Yep.

Because of the AI, the GT series has always struck me as being more about collecting and tuning cars and less about actually racing them. While the first time around, I loved it, I think I may have logged an hour on GT4 total vs. 80+ on GT2. I love racing games, but GT never feels like racing to me.

Plus, for all the heralded "realism" why is it I can slam into a wall at 200 mph, bumper car off every other car in the field and still win the race?

[Poofta!]

im a huge racing fan... but add me to the boat of people that dont like GT 3/4. i have all the GTs, one and two were good, cause frankly there wasnt muche lse to choose from if you wanted realism. aside from the always awesome PC racers (including the game that made me fall in love with the genre, the original "road and track presents: Need for Speed" for the PC) during the xbox/gc/ps2 age, racers really opened up, with the improved graphics and processing power, and its also where i lost GT. Forza is my all time favorite realistic racer, for the record, the tuning is dead on as it would be in real life, ive actually went on websites checking how people tune their real cars and used the same tricks in the game and gotten same results as the people did in real life -- something that put forza into that special place in me heart that few games even touch.

i do know though what you mean though in terms of just getting in and playing. i too am looking for that game you speak of. although i think Forza is just fine... i cant wait for Forza 2....

some games though i believe you might enjoy, is PGR 2 and Rallisport 2. both are quite enjoyable without too much investment. i especially like rallisport 2, its got enough stuff in it regularly to have worlds of fun, realistic physics, amazing graphics, and also enough stuff to unlock and challanges and modes to keep you playing and playing. the different cups offer many varied and interesting tracks... and watch out for the trees =]

lemme knwo if you find some really good racers.

other fun mentions: NFS: Most Wanted, TOCA 2, Auto Modellista. i feel the xbox is the best platform for racers... teh graphics and processing power blow the ps2 away, but the true thing is the controller, pressure sensitive triggers offer exactly what you need in terms of breaking and accelerating in a top notch racer.

[davidbrit2]

You guys should really try Enthusia for PS2. Excellent realism, but the structure of the game is much more arcade. No cash farming, no license testing, etc. Just pick a race, and have at it for a few minutes. After any race, you have a (pretty darn good) chance to win one of the opposing cars. Completing a race awards tuning points for the car you're driving, taking it up through 10 levels of tuning.

It's most definitely a game that focuses on your skill behind the wheel, and not under the hood. It's totally worth the $10 or so that it'll cost you these days.

Oh, and the music is fantastic. :)

[slip81]

I never liked GT3/4 either, but then again I was never one for realistic racers.

I don't want to have tune my car, or change tires mid race or even use the break button for turns.

I just wanna hop in and powerslide around corners at 150mph and weave in and out of traffic.

[dethink]

im a huge racing fan... but add me to the boat of people that dont like GT 3/4. i have all the GTs, one and two were good, cause frankly there wasnt muche lse to choose from if you wanted realism. aside from the always awesome PC racers (including the game that made me fall in love with the genre, the original "road and track presents: Need for Speed" for the PC) during the xbox/gc/ps2 age, racers really opened up, with the improved graphics and processing power, and its also where i lost GT. Forza is my all time favorite realistic racer, for the record, the tuning is dead on as it would be in real life, ive actually went on websites checking how people tune their real cars and used the same tricks in the game and gotten same results as the people did in real life -- something that put forza into that special place in me heart that few games even touch.

i do know though what you mean though in terms of just getting in and playing. i too am looking for that game you speak of. although i think Forza is just fine... i cant wait for Forza 2....

some games though i believe you might enjoy, is PGR 2 and Rallisport 2. both are quite enjoyable without too much investment. i especially like rallisport 2, its got enough stuff in it regularly to have worlds of fun, realistic physics, amazing graphics, and also enough stuff to unlock and challanges and modes to keep you playing and playing. the different cups offer many varied and interesting tracks... and watch out for the trees =]

lemme knwo if you find some really good racers.

other fun mentions: NFS: Most Wanted, TOCA 2, Auto Modellista. i feel the xbox is the best platform for racers... teh graphics and processing power blow the ps2 away, but the true thing is the controller, pressure sensitive triggers offer exactly what you need in terms of breaking and accelerating in a top notch racer.

Chances are if it came out last gen and was a decent racing game, I owned it. :D

Forza made up for a lot of GT 3/4's issues, but 2 major things kept me from loving it - the car never really feels connected to the road as it does in GT (it feels like it's floating or driving on mirror smooth flat asphalt), and for whatever reason while they look fine, the visuals are just "off" - it's a lot harder to gauge distances and approaches to turns. I think it's a combination of the framerate, and that the way the camera is pulled up, everything looks flatter and wider in Forza. I never had much trouble trucking through the game with the assists off and the difficulty cranked up, but I never really felt "consistent" nailing the racing line, and the handling at the limit (provided you don't get too happy with the gas or you totally blow your approach) is much more forgiving, IMO. Forza is much more tolerant of mid-corner braking/acceleration if you screwed up your line, especially in FWD cars, which should just plow straight if you mess this up. Not only could you correct, you could somehow make them oversteer.

Loved both Rallisports. Loved PGR 1&2, but as great as 3 was, I was sad to see the slower cars go - I like the "normal" cars! I really wish they'd incorporate more actual race tracks though. I know it goes against Bizarre's design, but 90º corners get old after a while.

And I know it's weird, but after owning both xboxes, I prefer the PS controller for racing games. I know the triggers offer more precision, but I'm more consistent with my throttle inputs with the analog buttons, especially in longer races where the triggers become uncomfortable.

*sigh*

Just give me a new GT with decent AI and a non-gimped arcade mode (meaning 75% of the cool cars aren't available), and I'd be happy.