JWSzczep
04-23-2007, 02:32 PM
I was going to leave this to die, but since Frank made some very scathing and unfair remarks about me on the 1Up podcast, I feel the need to post a rebuttal.
The main criticisms have focused on (1) the sensationalist nature of the article, and (2) the quote of Frank’s. I will address these issues separately.
(1) Sensationalism
Is this an argument of semantics? Perhaps you’d prefer “reclusive communities” to “secret societies”? To me they’re interchangeable in this situation. Digital Press, Lost Levels, ASSEMblergames, that Atari website with the unreleased 2600 fans, and so on, are all online communities, some more reclusive than others. Anyone who argues there aren’t reclusive online communities is an idiot.
To Frank and his 1Up cohorts: you run me down for some quotes and saying the picture I painted is not accurate and then right after that talk about how there is a culture attached to unreleased games and then demonstrate the controversy that this subject raises. A bit hypocritical, no?
I was making the article fun with a little embellishment. Of course there’s some sensationalism. I’m a writer for God’s sake! It’s what I do! It’s why I was a good writer, with several fans, before I resigned from the profession (due to the low pay found in England).
Articles are meant to entertain and enthuse, they’re meant to be exciting. Before Retro Gamer came under new management, people complained that the old RG was very dry, and read more like a school text book written by stuffy old men. When Imagine took over we jazzed it up, we made retro and old games exciting and fun. It’s what I tried to do with all my work. Some true facts dressed up in a lot of fun. Hence the whole cloak and dagger atmosphere, which I accentuated from the original Escapist article. If you didn’t like the style, fair enough, but if you feel that all articles written about games need to be dull, dry, cut and pasted affairs, then again, I think you’re an idiot and I think THAT is shoddy journalism.
If there was a mistake regarding the number of NWC carts mentioned, or monetary figures, then that is worth pointing out, and I sincerely apologise for any genuine factual mistakes. I try to triple-check everything, and in an ideal world there would be no factual errors. But if you’re bitching about the style and the fact that to entertain the reader I described such groups as secret societies, well, then you can fuck right off.
Everyone complains about people recycling press releases, or the official company line, well, I heard these complaints, and actively tried to do something about it. I dug deep, I avoided companies, and I spoke about various games “scenes”. And yet people still moan? What the hell do you people want from a games journalist?! I might as well have just recycled some PR crap, and saved myself the hassle. “Sega and Nintendo say they don’t know anything about unreleased games. Thank you, goodbye.”
I stand by this article and what I wrote 100%. Nothing was fictionalised. These unreleased games DO exist, as do the people who trade in them, as do the online forums, and the FTP servers, and so on. So, there was a little bit of sensationalism, a little bit of exaggeration regarding people’s behaviour and motivation. So fucking what? People found it fun, and the raw facts about the games are true. I only know of one guy who raided some company’s trash (Sega’s bins in the UK), but it was a fun anecdote worth emphasising with a little narrative.
The article IS a good article, as highlighted by the countless people who are praising it, still from when it appeared in The Escapist. I fail to understand the intense level of hostility its styling has generated. From what I can tell, you simply hate collectors and people who trade in this stuff (hence those weird and frankly ridiculous butter jokes), hence why you didn’t like the article. Grow up, other people who have no intention of collecting loved it.
Go read Gamespot or something else if you don’t like it. If I were to go back in time, I’d do it all exactly the same… bar the Frank quote (see below).
(2) Frank’s quote
Frank is a liar. As pointed out by Mayhem, I quoted Frank twice in the article. I’ve also quoted him in past issues of Retro Gamer. In fact, me and Frank have a little history. I used to respect and quite like him, and would either quote him or mention him, since a lot of my articles were connected to him (Wacky Worlds, Sonic Xtreme, etc).
The first quote, dated back to The Escapist version of this article. I took it from ASSEMbler’s forum, and I still asked Frank if I could use it. Here is the PM I sent him on Lostlevels:
From: JS
To: TheRedEye
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:13 am
Subject: Quotable quotes
Greets
I'm in no rush for this, so don't put aside your wild crab-filled roadtrip adventure.
The article is about the underground prototype collector communities, etc.
But I was hoping to quote you like so, which was taken directly from your post on the ASSEMbler forums:
I also spoke to the legendary Lost Levels founder and all-round nice guy, Frank Cifaldi, about the reluctance to release publicly.
“A lot of people have this elitist need to be the only person able to play a game, some have this weird belief that holding on to a one-of-a-kind game gives it ‘legendary’ status and makes it more ‘historically valuable’ than it would be if [publicly available], and still others just mouth off about how much they paid for the damned things. No one but the game’s copyright holder is entitled to have a game never sold at retail level. The rest of us either rely on the kindness of strangers, or spend a hell of a lot of money dealing on the black market. To me, once I’m over the excitement of being Indiana Jones and discovering something special and new, I specifically want to see how other people react to it. Seeing people actively playing and discussing the game I found is much more gratifying to me than being able to brag about having something.”
I like that statement, nice Indie analogy too.
regards
The original quote can be found here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/23/7
He said in his PM reply:
From: TheRedEye
To: JS
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:28 pm
Subject: Re: Quotable quotes Quote message
That picture of me in a fadora isn't just sexy, it means something too! Yeah, go ahead if you'd like.
See, he was happy about being quoted.
He then asked:
From: TheRedEye
To: JS
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:41 pm
Subject: Re: Quotable quotes Quote message
So where the hell are you going to publish a piece about the Assembler community?
My reply:
From: JS
To: TheRedEye
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: Quotable quotes
Well, the piece has been in the planning for over 5 months now, involving interviewing several members, ploughing through the forums, asking too many questions etc. The delay is because several mags either screwed me around, or simply went bankrupt (really dreadful tale of corporate greed with that one!).
[…]
The Short Answer:
It will either go in a later issue of:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/
[…]
If all goes well, it should be published before the New Year. Once out there, I'll be sure to start a topic on assembler's forum, and here [LOSTLEVELS] if you like.
Wish me luck! Hopefully no magazines collapse this time.
Best regards
Frank then spoke personally about trouble he has had with publishers. Which I found really endearing.
Then months later, from me
From: JS
To: TheRedEye
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:37 pm
Subject: It's up!
The Escapist article is up:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/23/3
You and Lost Levels are of course mentioned!
Thanks for the help, I hope it proves an interesting read. The fact that you want unreleased games making it out there, has gone down well with many people.
Best regards
His happy reply:
From: TheRedEye
To: JS
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:56 pm
Subject: Re: It's up!
Looks good, but I really don't understand why people have thought of Robotech for the N64 as a holy grail for so long, considering the ROM has been online for several years.
Notice how he likes it, and presumably its sensationalist style. He even comments on the Robotech thing. I find it ironic that about a year later he totally changed his view of it, and lyingly described it as “smoke and mirrors about NOTHING AT ALL” on the 1Up podcast.
Then he added:
From: TheRedEye
To: JS
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: It's up!
My boss actually found the article before you showed it to me, he's on top of his shit!
I work at Gamasutra now, if you didn't know, with Brandon from Insert Credit and Simon Carless, former Slashdot Games editor.
I misinterpreted what he said, and asked:
From: JS To: TheRedEye Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:11 pm Subject: You're in trouble?
My boss actually found the article before you showed it to me, he's on top of his shit!
Why, did the mentioning of your name get you in trouble? I sincerely hope not. I had been thinking, that since the article contains your words, it might go against your contract for not having online articles, even though I was actually just quoting a conversation you had with someone online.
I hope I didn't get you into trouble with this, I had asked just to make sure it was ok to quote you.
So... Is everything ok then? From the way you worded that, your boss is furious? Is there any way for me to make amends? I would not want to jeopardise your new position there.
Anyway, let me know if things are ticking along smoothly or not.
Best regards
See how I cared about the situation?
His reply:
From: TheRedEye To: JS Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:34 pm Subject: Re: You're in trouble?
No no no, no trouble at all!
We batted around a dozen PMs back and forth over the months, and a few emails, mainly to do with my articles which featured him.
They’re all there in his PM account on LostLevels.
I used to think Frank was a decent chap, hence the “nice guy” quote. I once respected him, I respected his work, and from the brief conversations we had, I quite liked him. He seemed very altruistic. A friend of the guy who sold him the Wacky World’s prototype described Frank in some very nasty terms, and said I should not deal with him. But I thought to myself, no, Frank is a decent chap. So I ignored this guy and continued to deal with Frank. How wrong I was!
I regarded Frank as an important person within the scene, who could give a polite, printable counter-view to the article, like he did before – as opposed to most people who oppose collectors who are utterly unprintable, and resort to those stupid fucking butter jokes or simple rudeness and hostility.
So, I started a topic on LostLevels, wanting to get some opposing views and quotes. My usual routine when investigating a “scene”. (I’ve done this with the Jag community, CDi community, and ROM translation community, and they have all loved the articles I wrote – someone get Nightcrawler or Gideon Zhi to back that last one up). It’s what I do, it’s what I like doing, and it’s what I’m good at: “scene investigations”.
I wanted some quotes on watermarking.
Instead, he edited my original post and put “PROPERTY OF LOST LEVELS” in big red letters, in my text. Or one of his mods did this. Then he, and the rest of the forum, became very hostile and aggressive regarding this subject. I couldn’t get a word in edgeways, and I found it very disheartening.
There was no need for the hostility. He comes across as some kind of bipolar madman: jovial one minute, and then flipping over a table and setting it on the fire the next!
So I thought, to hell with it. You knew who I was, and you knew I often quote you. If you didn’t want to come across as such a jerk in print, you shouldn’t have behaved like one. Try a little courtesy for once. You said those words when I started a topic to ask you about the subject, and so I printed those words on the subject.
Going back, I’d leave Frank out completely, but then I’d no doubt get accusations of not trying to tell both sides of the story. Yet, when I went to the other side, specifically to get quotes to tell their side of the story, I was flamed to hell and back. It's catch-22.
Seriously, fuck having to deal that stuff. I’m out of journalism now, and never want to go back. I regard that as the best work I’ve done. It’s exciting, thrilling, and it breaks new boundaries. Which other articles have been written on such things? I stand by the article - it was a great piece of work.
Now, I’m going on holiday for three days, and although I only expect more flaming by the time I get back, if there are any sensible questions or comments, I will try to reply to them.
The main criticisms have focused on (1) the sensationalist nature of the article, and (2) the quote of Frank’s. I will address these issues separately.
(1) Sensationalism
Is this an argument of semantics? Perhaps you’d prefer “reclusive communities” to “secret societies”? To me they’re interchangeable in this situation. Digital Press, Lost Levels, ASSEMblergames, that Atari website with the unreleased 2600 fans, and so on, are all online communities, some more reclusive than others. Anyone who argues there aren’t reclusive online communities is an idiot.
To Frank and his 1Up cohorts: you run me down for some quotes and saying the picture I painted is not accurate and then right after that talk about how there is a culture attached to unreleased games and then demonstrate the controversy that this subject raises. A bit hypocritical, no?
I was making the article fun with a little embellishment. Of course there’s some sensationalism. I’m a writer for God’s sake! It’s what I do! It’s why I was a good writer, with several fans, before I resigned from the profession (due to the low pay found in England).
Articles are meant to entertain and enthuse, they’re meant to be exciting. Before Retro Gamer came under new management, people complained that the old RG was very dry, and read more like a school text book written by stuffy old men. When Imagine took over we jazzed it up, we made retro and old games exciting and fun. It’s what I tried to do with all my work. Some true facts dressed up in a lot of fun. Hence the whole cloak and dagger atmosphere, which I accentuated from the original Escapist article. If you didn’t like the style, fair enough, but if you feel that all articles written about games need to be dull, dry, cut and pasted affairs, then again, I think you’re an idiot and I think THAT is shoddy journalism.
If there was a mistake regarding the number of NWC carts mentioned, or monetary figures, then that is worth pointing out, and I sincerely apologise for any genuine factual mistakes. I try to triple-check everything, and in an ideal world there would be no factual errors. But if you’re bitching about the style and the fact that to entertain the reader I described such groups as secret societies, well, then you can fuck right off.
Everyone complains about people recycling press releases, or the official company line, well, I heard these complaints, and actively tried to do something about it. I dug deep, I avoided companies, and I spoke about various games “scenes”. And yet people still moan? What the hell do you people want from a games journalist?! I might as well have just recycled some PR crap, and saved myself the hassle. “Sega and Nintendo say they don’t know anything about unreleased games. Thank you, goodbye.”
I stand by this article and what I wrote 100%. Nothing was fictionalised. These unreleased games DO exist, as do the people who trade in them, as do the online forums, and the FTP servers, and so on. So, there was a little bit of sensationalism, a little bit of exaggeration regarding people’s behaviour and motivation. So fucking what? People found it fun, and the raw facts about the games are true. I only know of one guy who raided some company’s trash (Sega’s bins in the UK), but it was a fun anecdote worth emphasising with a little narrative.
The article IS a good article, as highlighted by the countless people who are praising it, still from when it appeared in The Escapist. I fail to understand the intense level of hostility its styling has generated. From what I can tell, you simply hate collectors and people who trade in this stuff (hence those weird and frankly ridiculous butter jokes), hence why you didn’t like the article. Grow up, other people who have no intention of collecting loved it.
Go read Gamespot or something else if you don’t like it. If I were to go back in time, I’d do it all exactly the same… bar the Frank quote (see below).
(2) Frank’s quote
Frank is a liar. As pointed out by Mayhem, I quoted Frank twice in the article. I’ve also quoted him in past issues of Retro Gamer. In fact, me and Frank have a little history. I used to respect and quite like him, and would either quote him or mention him, since a lot of my articles were connected to him (Wacky Worlds, Sonic Xtreme, etc).
The first quote, dated back to The Escapist version of this article. I took it from ASSEMbler’s forum, and I still asked Frank if I could use it. Here is the PM I sent him on Lostlevels:
From: JS
To: TheRedEye
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:13 am
Subject: Quotable quotes
Greets
I'm in no rush for this, so don't put aside your wild crab-filled roadtrip adventure.
The article is about the underground prototype collector communities, etc.
But I was hoping to quote you like so, which was taken directly from your post on the ASSEMbler forums:
I also spoke to the legendary Lost Levels founder and all-round nice guy, Frank Cifaldi, about the reluctance to release publicly.
“A lot of people have this elitist need to be the only person able to play a game, some have this weird belief that holding on to a one-of-a-kind game gives it ‘legendary’ status and makes it more ‘historically valuable’ than it would be if [publicly available], and still others just mouth off about how much they paid for the damned things. No one but the game’s copyright holder is entitled to have a game never sold at retail level. The rest of us either rely on the kindness of strangers, or spend a hell of a lot of money dealing on the black market. To me, once I’m over the excitement of being Indiana Jones and discovering something special and new, I specifically want to see how other people react to it. Seeing people actively playing and discussing the game I found is much more gratifying to me than being able to brag about having something.”
I like that statement, nice Indie analogy too.
regards
The original quote can be found here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/23/7
He said in his PM reply:
From: TheRedEye
To: JS
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:28 pm
Subject: Re: Quotable quotes Quote message
That picture of me in a fadora isn't just sexy, it means something too! Yeah, go ahead if you'd like.
See, he was happy about being quoted.
He then asked:
From: TheRedEye
To: JS
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:41 pm
Subject: Re: Quotable quotes Quote message
So where the hell are you going to publish a piece about the Assembler community?
My reply:
From: JS
To: TheRedEye
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:49 pm
Subject: Re: Quotable quotes
Well, the piece has been in the planning for over 5 months now, involving interviewing several members, ploughing through the forums, asking too many questions etc. The delay is because several mags either screwed me around, or simply went bankrupt (really dreadful tale of corporate greed with that one!).
[…]
The Short Answer:
It will either go in a later issue of:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/
[…]
If all goes well, it should be published before the New Year. Once out there, I'll be sure to start a topic on assembler's forum, and here [LOSTLEVELS] if you like.
Wish me luck! Hopefully no magazines collapse this time.
Best regards
Frank then spoke personally about trouble he has had with publishers. Which I found really endearing.
Then months later, from me
From: JS
To: TheRedEye
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:37 pm
Subject: It's up!
The Escapist article is up:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/23/3
You and Lost Levels are of course mentioned!
Thanks for the help, I hope it proves an interesting read. The fact that you want unreleased games making it out there, has gone down well with many people.
Best regards
His happy reply:
From: TheRedEye
To: JS
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:56 pm
Subject: Re: It's up!
Looks good, but I really don't understand why people have thought of Robotech for the N64 as a holy grail for so long, considering the ROM has been online for several years.
Notice how he likes it, and presumably its sensationalist style. He even comments on the Robotech thing. I find it ironic that about a year later he totally changed his view of it, and lyingly described it as “smoke and mirrors about NOTHING AT ALL” on the 1Up podcast.
Then he added:
From: TheRedEye
To: JS
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:48 pm
Subject: Re: It's up!
My boss actually found the article before you showed it to me, he's on top of his shit!
I work at Gamasutra now, if you didn't know, with Brandon from Insert Credit and Simon Carless, former Slashdot Games editor.
I misinterpreted what he said, and asked:
From: JS To: TheRedEye Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:11 pm Subject: You're in trouble?
My boss actually found the article before you showed it to me, he's on top of his shit!
Why, did the mentioning of your name get you in trouble? I sincerely hope not. I had been thinking, that since the article contains your words, it might go against your contract for not having online articles, even though I was actually just quoting a conversation you had with someone online.
I hope I didn't get you into trouble with this, I had asked just to make sure it was ok to quote you.
So... Is everything ok then? From the way you worded that, your boss is furious? Is there any way for me to make amends? I would not want to jeopardise your new position there.
Anyway, let me know if things are ticking along smoothly or not.
Best regards
See how I cared about the situation?
His reply:
From: TheRedEye To: JS Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:34 pm Subject: Re: You're in trouble?
No no no, no trouble at all!
We batted around a dozen PMs back and forth over the months, and a few emails, mainly to do with my articles which featured him.
They’re all there in his PM account on LostLevels.
I used to think Frank was a decent chap, hence the “nice guy” quote. I once respected him, I respected his work, and from the brief conversations we had, I quite liked him. He seemed very altruistic. A friend of the guy who sold him the Wacky World’s prototype described Frank in some very nasty terms, and said I should not deal with him. But I thought to myself, no, Frank is a decent chap. So I ignored this guy and continued to deal with Frank. How wrong I was!
I regarded Frank as an important person within the scene, who could give a polite, printable counter-view to the article, like he did before – as opposed to most people who oppose collectors who are utterly unprintable, and resort to those stupid fucking butter jokes or simple rudeness and hostility.
So, I started a topic on LostLevels, wanting to get some opposing views and quotes. My usual routine when investigating a “scene”. (I’ve done this with the Jag community, CDi community, and ROM translation community, and they have all loved the articles I wrote – someone get Nightcrawler or Gideon Zhi to back that last one up). It’s what I do, it’s what I like doing, and it’s what I’m good at: “scene investigations”.
I wanted some quotes on watermarking.
Instead, he edited my original post and put “PROPERTY OF LOST LEVELS” in big red letters, in my text. Or one of his mods did this. Then he, and the rest of the forum, became very hostile and aggressive regarding this subject. I couldn’t get a word in edgeways, and I found it very disheartening.
There was no need for the hostility. He comes across as some kind of bipolar madman: jovial one minute, and then flipping over a table and setting it on the fire the next!
So I thought, to hell with it. You knew who I was, and you knew I often quote you. If you didn’t want to come across as such a jerk in print, you shouldn’t have behaved like one. Try a little courtesy for once. You said those words when I started a topic to ask you about the subject, and so I printed those words on the subject.
Going back, I’d leave Frank out completely, but then I’d no doubt get accusations of not trying to tell both sides of the story. Yet, when I went to the other side, specifically to get quotes to tell their side of the story, I was flamed to hell and back. It's catch-22.
Seriously, fuck having to deal that stuff. I’m out of journalism now, and never want to go back. I regard that as the best work I’ve done. It’s exciting, thrilling, and it breaks new boundaries. Which other articles have been written on such things? I stand by the article - it was a great piece of work.
Now, I’m going on holiday for three days, and although I only expect more flaming by the time I get back, if there are any sensible questions or comments, I will try to reply to them.