The days of selling old games might be coming an end?

[7th lutz]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6169430.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

With the recent revelation that Grand Theft Auto IV will be set in a transparent stand-in for New York City, the state's politicians are already touchy on the subject of violent games. More are raising their voices, as today state Senators Andrew Lanza and Martin Golden called for a "crackdown" on violent games and said they would introduce legislation to keep kids from being exposed to inappropriate games.

The pair revealed three specific measures that their legislation will include. First of all, the senators want to establish an advisory council to monitor the effectiveness of the Entertainment Software Rating Board in keeping adult games out of children's hands. The members of that council would also develop policies for education on youth violence.

I am concerned about this part of the article:

The second specified measure would make rating labels mandatory on all games sold in the state, new or used, either in stores or online. Those who sell unrated games despite this would be fined and penalized, with the revenue derived going to fund the senators' third proposal.

That proposal is a Parent Teacher Anti-Violence Awareness Program, "which will empower parents and teachers to work with students and children on issues related to violence in video games." In addition to increasing awareness of the ESRB ratings, the program would advocate proper parental supervision.

I think part of that article also effect the atariage store and some other online stores that sell homebrew games along with every store that sells games snes games and below that for systems.

This only will effect New York state, but I think it is possible that a similar be proposed in other states.

[agbulls]

I just don't see how this would ever be possible. As far as I know, you can't enact new laws to stop the sale of products that we're within their boundaries when developed. This is a very general statement of course. But, aren't cars the best example of this?

Emission standards go up every year for cars that are sold new. But it would be insanity to expect used cars to meet the same standards. I would undoubtebly think this same argument will be used for the lack of ratings on older used games.

Expect this to be yet another attempt by the ultra conservative to garner votes that will fail -- all while costing us taxpayers money in the process.

Wooppeedeedoo!

[7th lutz]

I just don't see how this would ever be possible. As far as I know, you can't enact new laws to stop the sale of products that we're within their boundaries when developed. This is a very general statement of course. But, aren't cars the best example of this?

Emission standards go up every year for cars that are sold new. But it would be insanity to expect used cars to meet the same standards. I would undoubtebly think this same argument will be used for the lack of ratings on older used games.

Expect this to be yet another attempt by the ultra conservative to garner votes that will fail -- all while costing us taxpayers money in the process.

Wooppeedeedoo!

While it is true, the country of Germany doesn't allow 2600 games to be sold due to the games not having a rating.

[agbulls]

While it is true, the country of Germany doesn't allow 2600 games to be sold due to the games not having a rating.

They also haven't allowed anything extremely violent (Mortak Kombat for example) to be sold as far as I understand.

And, last I checked, Bush hasn't taken away ALL our civil rights just yet. He might be hard pressed to take away my retro games. This is America after all, goddammit! ;)

[DefaultGen]

.....

[Damaniel]

If classic games are outlawed, then only outlaws will have classic games. ;)

Seriously, I'm all for increasing awareness of the ESRB and game ratings -- it's a decent tool that parents can use to help them decide what to allow their children to play -- but as an adult myself, anything that takes away my right to buy and play games (especially older ones) is something that I'd never support, and anyone who supports such legislation is a person that I'd never vote for.

[udisi]

good luck enforcing a law like that. On another note, they may intend this or games since the creation of the ESRB. like someone else said they may "grandfather" older games. I think what they're trying to avoid is people reselling GTA to minors, etc.

I am totally against the censership of games, but I'm all for enforcing the ESRB. Require ID to prove you're 17 or older to buy M rated games. Hell require ID or age verification for AO games. That's resonable, but outright banning is just trying to impose a personal agenda.

[gum_drops]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6169430.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0
I think part of that article also effect . . . . along with every store that sells games snes games and below that for systems.


Its about time they start cracking down on games. Before video games and television corrupted out youth we lived in a peaceful land void of wars, hate and suffering. Eltronic violence ruined thousands of years of peaceful tranquility.

Couldnt you just add your own rating to every game you sell to avoid any issues on ebay. They wouldnt be official but would serve the correct purpose. Just put some little quote at the bottom mentioning this game is mature etc etc. I know from experiece that bidders dont like reading descriptions anyway so the little means rating wouldnt mean much to most buyers.

[TheRedEye]

I hope this results in stupid money being spent on rating every game ever made, because that sounds like a pretty funny job.

[cyberfluxor]

I hope this results in stupid money being spent on rating every game ever made, because that sounds like a pretty funny job.
What'd be a great job is to review old games for the government and slap ratings on them. :)

[Captain Wrong]

Does the sky ever get tired of falling?

[Pantechnicon]

A regulation like this will probably do little more than scare the local shops into taking ESRB guidelines more seriously in their transactions. Pre-rated games will have to be grandfathered. No way in heck could one realistically enforce something like that on eBay or at CGE-type events. I don't have a problem with it at all if it works out that way.


And, last I checked, Bush hasn't taken away ALL our civil rights just yet. He might be hard pressed to take away my retro games. This is America after all, goddammit! ;)

And the last time I checked, nearly every serious effort to censor videogames in this country is initiated by a Congressional Democrat. Joe Lieberman, anybody?

Don't let's turn this into a flamewar now. You made your anti-Bush crack and I made a semi-informed retort. Let's just call it even.

[8-bitNesMan]

And the last time I checked, nearly every serious effort to censor videogames in this country is initiated by a Congressional Democrat. Joe Lieberman, anybody?

QFT! And let's not forget Hot Coffee Hillary ;)

[agbulls]

A regulation like this will probably do little more than scare the local shops into taking ESRB guidelines more seriously in their transactions. Pre-rated games will have to be grandfathered. No way in heck could one realistically enforce something like that on eBay or at CGE-type events. I don't have a problem with it at all if it works out that way.



And the last time I checked, nearly every serious effort to censor videogames in this country is initiated by a Congressional Democrat. Joe Lieberman, anybody?

Don't let's turn this into a flamewar now. You made your anti-Bush crack and I made a semi-informed retort. Let's just call it even.

haha. I absolutely agree. :)

[goemon]

If anything, wouldn't a ban make prices go up? If a product is illegal, people are willing to pay more for it, right? I can see it now: jails full of "game dealers" who are corrupting the country by selling Night Trap to little kids on the street corner.

[200609]

I would think the proposal violates freedom of speech in some way. If they wanted to they could just emphasize the fact that a Mature rating is equivalent to an R rating. But that's not enough for them. That aside though, I'm submitting my proposal for a book ratings system.

"Warning: book contains grotesque depictions of emaciated individuals, charred corpses, and Adolf Hitler." Which reminds me, keep history out of the classroom!

[Push Upstairs]

So this is pretty much something else that both wastes taxpayer money and pretends to show politicians give a shit about everyones kids?

[p_b]

While it is true, the country of Germany doesn't allow 2600 games to be sold due to the games not having a rating.

Eh, what?
Maybe that's the case for shops, but certainly not for fleamarktes and individual Ebay sellers...a short look at German EBay definitely shows this.

[tom]

Some VCS titles like River Raid are ' indexed', meaning they are not allowed to be advertised, displayed in shops, sold to minors etc....This law came into force in 1985(ish). Nowadays many (most) violent titles in Germany are 'indexed', they are not banned, there is a difference.
OK, indexing RR was a sad affair, as for games not allowed being sold to 'under 18s', I'm all for that.
When we still had arcades in Germany, they were '18 only', same with video shops, even when they rented out children titles.

[riffraff]

*psssst*
Hey Buddy.. yeah you!
Ya wanna buy a combat? Wha? you need pac-man? ok ok You got it man.
Just don't tell anyone where you got it, capiche?

[Pantechnicon]

I would think the proposal violates freedom of speech in some way. If they wanted to they could just emphasize the fact that a Mature rating is equivalent to an R rating. But that's not enough for them.

It would be one thing to say "You can't make, sell or distribute GTA-IV", but that's not what's being suggested. All that seems to be proposed here is what you said; creating an additional level of accountability for the resale of new and used ESRB-rated games. I've used this illustration in another thread but it's worth repeating here: In America you can legally own a copy of Time Magazine and you can legally own a copy of Hustler. However, there's no good reason for you to expect to be able to pick up both while you're standing in the grocery checkout, and your inability to do so is not a violation of the 1st Amednment.


That aside though, I'm submitting my proposal for a book ratings system.

Heh. There are probably people on both sides of the political spectrum who'd like to implement something like that ("This book has a teenaged sex scene!" "This book speaks favorably about Jesus!" "Lock `em both up!"). Even if I were one of them, though, I'd be nuts to want to ride that tiger. In the wake of things like VA tech or Columbine, the demagoguery is always about what they were playing on their PC's, what they listening to on their stereos, but never what they were reading. No no. Literature as a whole is a sacred cow, even if some of it bears part of the responsibility for occasional mass killing.

[Cryomancer]

Yeah, I'm waiting for when all this bullshit finally makes someone snap and kill a bunch fo people, but first intentionally replace all his belongings with bibles and gospel music or something "good", just to confuse the "experts".

Ok well maybe that's a bit demented but damn if the thought hasn't crossed my mind after reading all this kinda crap. if only we could go back to using...what was it called...oh yeah, personal responsibility and self-control.

[ubersaurus]

A regulation like this will probably do little more than scare the local shops into taking ESRB guidelines more seriously in their transactions. Pre-rated games will have to be grandfathered. No way in heck could one realistically enforce something like that on eBay or at CGE-type events. I don't have a problem with it at all if it works out that way.



And the last time I checked, nearly every serious effort to censor videogames in this country is initiated by a Congressional Democrat. Joe Lieberman, anybody?

Don't let's turn this into a flamewar now. You made your anti-Bush crack and I made a semi-informed retort. Let's just call it even.


To this day I will never understand how Joe Lieberman got reelected(though technically he's now an independent, toying with the idea of going republican :P).

I don't even think a game like Texas Chainsaw Massacre on the 2600 would be rated Teen.

[Push Upstairs]

All this stuff is only as effective as a parents ability to give a shit.

Whether that be about the ratings themselves or the stuff their child plays.

[Slate]

If classic games are outlawed, then only outlaws will have classic games. ;)

I've found a signature. Do you mind if I use it? :)

[Aswald]

Look- video games are an easy target. If Baby Boomers were heavily into them, this would never get anywhere. It's just an effort to make it look like they are doing something.

[greedostick]

And still a child can turn on the t.v. and watch Maury Povich. Quite possibly the trashiest show ever to grace a television set. Or see the same hookers on cops getting out of cars while skulling up dudes that they see on GTA.

[RegSNES]

While I do think more retailers should enforce the ESRB, I also find it strange that NY would need a program/law to get parents to do what should come to them naturally: look out for their kids.

[Griking]

If anything, wouldn't a ban make prices go up? If a product is illegal, people are willing to pay more for it, right? I can see it now: jails full of "game dealers" who are corrupting the country by selling Night Trap to little kids on the street corner.

If a game becomes illegal it means that you won't be able to sell it on eBay any longer. If you can't sell it on eBay then your exposure will drop drastically and less people will know that you're selling it which will result in lower sale prices.

If this does come to be it will suck big time for profiteers but it may be a great thing for collectors. We may actually see games being sold at tag sales and thrift stores again.

[Iron Draggon]

Heh. There are probably people on both sides of the political spectrum who'd like to implement something like that ("This book has a teenaged sex scene!" "This book speaks favorably about Jesus!" "Lock `em both up!"). Even if I were one of them, though, I'd be nuts to want to ride that tiger. In the wake of things like VA tech or Columbine, the demagoguery is always about what they were playing on their PC's, what they listening to on their stereos, but never what they were reading. No no. Literature as a whole is a sacred cow, even if some of it bears part of the responsibility for occasional mass killing.

QFT!

you don't see anyone trying to enact any legislation to limit anyone's access to any books... so you can do like my sister does and collect every true crime book that you can find, reading them all and learning about how every serial killer throughout history eventually fucked up and got caught, so when you finally go on your own killing spree, you won't make the same stupid mistakes that every other serial killer before you made... and while you're at it, you can enjoy viewing all the extremely explicit photos of all their victim's remains... but no, it's video games that are giving kids murderous ideas...

[j_factor]

Books can be controversial too, and there have definitely been efforts to ban certain ones. Henry Miller anyone?