Mainstream gamers friend or foe?

[bangtango]

I guess it depends on whether the mainstream gamer is a full-blown fanboy or not. Someone doesn't have to own a Turbo Duo, Commodore 64, Sega Saturn or a bunch of Japanese imports to be considered a "gamer." As long as a person is respectful of competing systems that they may not own or some of the older companies (Sega, SNK, etc.) who have had a long history in the industry then I think they are all right.

I guess you tend to lose a little respect for a person when you have a guy bashing the Sega Saturn without having ever played it or dissing a 2D King of the Fighters game because it "looks old and isn't 3D" or something equally stupid.

I'm sure you all get the idea. That's the sort of thing I take into consideration, not what systems they own or how long they've been playing. It may sound unlikely to a few reading this but you never know when some 21-year old kid who was weaned on PS1/PS2 or XBox may become interested in signing up for a message board and using their buy-sell forum to get a Sega CD, 3DO or even an Atari computer.

[Flack]

The positive: Your friend is spending money on games, supporting consoles and gaming companies. Money from mainstream gamers may keep the console you love afloat.

The negative: Your friend is spending money on mainstream games, instead of helping support some of the more creative (and less lucrative) companies.

The neutral: Eh. Who cares what he plays. Doesn't affect the way you, I, or anyone else plays. Live and let live.

[RetroYoungen]

Casual gamers... ehh. I work in a store that sells a fair amount of games, and I've been asked by a lot of people about good games for their kids/friends/parents (and yes, they've asked for parents) to play. I show them titles like Beyond Good & Evil, or Shadow of the Colossus, or Gitaroo Man, and all I get back are blank stares and "why the hell would anyone play that?"

I figure I'll just play what I like, let everyone else play what they want, and just let it go when someone tries to tell me this game is better than that one simple because it's "prettier" or for some other aesthetic, superficial reason.

And by the way, I might not be 21, but I AM 22. Not all of us are the casual idiot gamer; some take some resentment to statements like that.

[Kid Ice]

These "mainstream" gamers are the ones who put $2 Dreamcast games on the curb at yard sales. They put PSX longboxes on ebay with $5 BINs. They buy full price day-of-release games and trade them in a week later. They eat up Maddens and Tony Hawks, and leave Viewtiful Joes and Icos for the bargain bins. Their idea of collecting is to buy your Final Fantasy 7 for $80.

God bless the mainstream gamers. These people are our food.

[mregashu]

I actually am bugged much more by gamers who refuse to believe a game like Madden can actually be good. Seriously, is there a single game in the Madden series that is under 8.0 on gamerankings? I understand game snobbery. Hell, I partake in it from time to time. But it's naive to be a snob towards a game that is consistently considered the best football game ever made.

If it's the football part, or sports games in general that you hate, so be it. But remember that over 90,000 people cram Notre Dame stadium every Saturday in October, and that doesn't leave many people in the greater South Bend area to attend Medieval festivals or sci-fi conventions. Madden sells better than a game like Morrowind not because people are a bunch of beer-swilling morons who can't comprehend the complexity and beauty of a well crafted RPG - it's because more people like quarterbacks than orcs.

Now, if you want your Madden loving friends to try something like Ico, or Animal Crossing, approach them without disdain, say you've got a cool game for them to try, but DON'T explain why this is a good game and his games are crap. Heck, maybe even compromise and try a game of Madden before breaking out Radiant Silvergun. If you aren't willing to do that, why should your friend be willing to try yours? Remember, everyone's favorite part of the Oreo is the middleground. Come to it.

[bangtango]

I actually am bugged much more by gamers who refuse to believe a game like Madden can actually be good. Seriously, is there a single game in the Madden series that is under 8.0 on gamerankings? I understand game snobbery. Hell, I partake in it from time to time. But it's naive to be a snob towards a game that is consistently considered the best football game ever made.

If it's the football part, or sports games in general that you hate, so be it. But remember that over 90,000 people cram Notre Dame stadium every Saturday in October, and that doesn't leave many people in the greater South Bend area to attend Medieval festivals or sci-fi conventions. Madden sells better than a game like Morrowind not because people are a bunch of beer-swilling morons who can't comprehend the complexity and beauty of a well crafted RPG - it's because more people like quarterbacks than orcs.

Now, if you want your Madden loving friends to try something like Ico, or Animal Crossing, approach them without disdain, say you've got a cool game for them to try, but DON'T explain why this is a good game and his games are crap. Heck, maybe even compromise and try a game of Madden before breaking out Radiant Silvergun. If you aren't willing to do that, why should your friend be willing to try yours? Remember, everyone's favorite part of the Oreo is the middleground. Come to it.

I'll pitch in and defend the Madden games a little.

I like both Madden titles and niche stuff so I fit into both categories. I'm a huge numbers and stats junkie so I love old and new sports games that let you play a season (or multiple seasons) and keep track of lots of obscure stats.

Dammit, I'll just come right out and admit it. Tracking the yardage per carry for my second string fullback on the 2002Carolina Panthers (or any other random team) interests me more than "learning" to "play" Freebird through my tv or screwing with obscure dating sims (despite being obsessed with yards-per-carry for backups on 5 year old football lineups, I can still get real dates).

I'm the guy who is always 2-4 years behind on the sports games people start threads for on this forum. Considering Madden 04 and Madden 05 on XBox now run the same price as a 15 year old Genesis sports game, I feed on those shitty sports games that people ridicule. Not bad getting games that are somewhat recent for 99 cents. Gamestop has so many friggin' copies of the EA and 2K games that it is impossible to NOT find a complete version and even if you get a bum disc from a clerk, it isn't a big investment to "replace" it.

So those mainstream gamers who dump those sports games as if they were a pet food recall, they help save me a lot of money by flooding the market with used games and driving the price down on titles I might have to pay more for otherwise. Of course, I have 2K and EA to thank for updating those every year but people still have to trade them in.

But yeah, I like plenty of lesser known stuff just like anybody else. So I get the best of both worlds.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I actually am bugged much more by gamers who refuse to believe a game like Madden can actually be good. Seriously, is there a single game in the Madden series that is under 8.0 on gamerankings? I understand game snobbery. Hell, I partake in it from time to time. But it's naive to be a snob towards a game that is consistently considered the best football game ever made.

Some would argue that Tecmo Bowl is the best football game ever made. Again, we land back in opinion-land. I have a hard time seeing how a yearly release of a franchise just for updated rosters/stats and minor gameplay tweeks to be superior over last years installment. Sometimes, such as the case with Madden 07 on 360, the franchise actually takes a backslide. Ouch!

The problem with sports games is for each sport there is the pinnacle game/version for that sport and it varys by person and taste. I love NHL 94 on Genny to this day. It got everything right, as hockey goes. Every hockey title I've played since (barring some quirkiness that makes the game more arcadey, ie Mutant League Hockey) has been inferior. It takes alot more than a yearly increment of a series to make a good game. You listening Capcom? *cough*MegaMan*cough* lol To each, his own.

@KidIce: *looking at a copy of FF7 on my shelf* MUST FEEEEED!!! Hungry... Itchy.... Tasteyyyy....

[JPeeples]

Mainstream gamers don't bother me, narrow-minded gamers do, however.

[Gentlegamer]

Re: Madden and Tecmo Bowl

Months ago, I picked up Madden 2005 for Xbox (for like $2.00). I recently put it in to give it a try . . . I'm fricken lost! It seems very complicated! After browsing the manual I realized that there are a lot of cool options for offense and defense that come right out of the NFL, so I look forward to mastering them and being able to play a real game.

The last football game I ever played was Super Tecmo Bowl II on the SNES. The arcade-like play didn't prepare me for the "sophistication" in modern football games. I still love Tecmo Bowl, but I look forward to learning how to use all the options in the modern games. However, I will never buy a new copy of any Madden game . . . just wait a few months and it's super cheap at GameStop! Playing "older" seasons doesn't bother me at all.

[Daltone]

I'm curious - why does no one ever bash JRPGs for barely changing over the years? Surely in a post FFVII world they must be considered fairly mainstream by now?

Sure sports sims are churned out every year with minor tweaks, but at the end of the day there's only so much innovation you can put in there. If you like the genre it's fine. Thinking everything else sucks is a bit silly, but luckily I don't have to play the same games as you. Money is going into the industry, games will evolve. In addition, the more 'mainstream' gamers, as you call them, the more people who are likely to one day dabble in non-mainstream games. If that makes any sense.

I sort of look at it this way - loads of people go to see summer blockbusters each year, but smaller independant films aren't dead.

[mregashu]

You're right about jrpgs, Daltone. I've actually made that point before as well. Personally, I see it as a roster update (different quarterback or different whiny, spiky haired hero) and a few gameplay tweaks ("new hit stick control!" or "a change in the battle system!"). Of course, in a new rpg you have a new story, so that is big. But I would argue that a new sports season is like an unfolding story...

As to Tecmo Super Bowl being the best football game of all time - I love Tecmo Bowl, but I'd say that comparison is like saying that Gran Turismo is the best racing game ever, and someone else saying it's Mario Kart. Apples and oranges.

[bangtango]

Some would argue that Tecmo Bowl is the best football game ever made. Again, we land back in opinion-land. I have a hard time seeing how a yearly release of a franchise just for updated rosters/stats and minor gameplay tweeks to be superior over last years installment. Sometimes, such as the case with Madden 07 on 360, the franchise actually takes a backslide. Ouch!

Sure, some editions are bad. Honestly, EA doesn't have much choice. You can do a patch or update online but what about people who might want a legitimate disc, manual and case? Then comes the question of what graphics and gameplay engine you use if there are already 2-3 years of Madden games released on a specific system. You can't use the most recent and assume everyone will like it and the features. Sure, that stuff could be tweaked in options but honestly, releasing an all new version each year saves more headaches than it creates. At least then people can pick and choose what year(s) are their absolute favorites. Just my opinion, I'm not saying I am right.

Just like in the old days, EA could have done smaller update cartridges for a lower cost but as I asked above what graphics and gameplay engine do they use?