Gamestop always have the "Not For Resale" cases promoting games before the come out. They could just use those but half the time if they get a NFR DS game they wil throw it in that box and sell it as used.
Gamestop always have the "Not For Resale" cases promoting games before the come out. They could just use those but half the time if they get a NFR DS game they wil throw it in that box and sell it as used.
I understand your point. I really do. But on the other hand, it comes down to the customers' needs. If the majority of customers demand that games not be gutted, GameStop would stop doing it. However, the reality is that the majority of customers don't mind.Originally Posted by Frankie_Hates_You
If a customer were buying a gutted game as a gift for someone, I'd always offer to shrink wrap the game and make it look perfect (clean case, no ugly stickers, etc.). Most of the time, the customer was happy with that. If not, then I'd recommend he or she try a few different stores in the mall while I kept the gutted copy on hold. If none of the other stores had it in stock, my perfect-condition gutted game was there as a backup.
I know this might sound silly, but people don't mind paying over $20,000 for a car that's been test driven numerous times by numerous people. Then again, most people aren't hard core car collectors or hard core video game collectors.
I think the easiest, simplest solution for hard core video game collectors is to not buy gutted games. Problem solved. Why raise hell over something that 99% of customers are fine with?
Overall though, I must admit that I hate shopping at GameStop or most retail stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.). It seems like the vast majority of retail employees...at least in NYC...goof off, talk to each other, ignore the customers, act grumpy, and know nothing about the products they sell. Just once, I'd like a store employee to ask me what I'm looking for and to show me exactly where it is instead of just grunting and pointing down an aisle.
Last edited by Rob2600; 11-07-2007 at 01:24 PM.
Two things that stuck out for me:
1. Although I am not bothered by buying opened new games as others here are, I cannot for the life of me figure out how they can sell the game as new if they are letting their employees take the game home after two weeks on the shelf. I am sorry but that game is no longer "new". THAT PRACTICE NEEDS TO STOP IMMEDIATELY, AND IS ASKING FOR A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT TO BE BROUGHT.
2. 30 days to return a sealed game, no questions asked,while only 7 days if opened and defective? Anyone else see the problem here? What if you don't open your game until after 7 days (but before 30 days) and discover a defect at that point? You are screwed. This can be a problem where the game is being bought as a gift. I personally would never buy from Gamestop a game as a gift for another person simply for that reason alone. Why not go 30/30 on the returns?
I also understand where you're coming from, however -
A portion of my initial point is that what goes/went on in your particular GameStop store is not a litmus test for company's consumer base as a whole.
I think your estimation of 99% of the customers being "okay" with it is over-reaching.
If it were possible to take some type of non-biased at-the-register poll of the entire company, and every time a gutted game were sold, the consumer reaction was noted -
with reactions ranging from but not limited to:
1. didn't purchase due to gutted condition
2. needed concept of "gutted" game explained to them/was hesitant to purchase
3. had absolutely NO reaction to being sold an open product as "new"
I'd venture to guess that you'd have very few instances of ZERO hesitation.
I was with the company for close to 5 years in a SM role, and I worked in several stores in my market.
If I were to estimate to the best of my memory and multiply the amount of consumers over a five year period who took issue with a "gutted" game being sold to them at full retail price, and make an educated assumption that this is not a reaction/trend isolated to Northern New Jersey (read: gamers are pretty much the same all over the country, with the exception of NASCAR and Cabella Hunting games being more popular the further south one goes of the Mason/Dixon line)...
... I'd say at the very least, I'm going to have a company-wide consumer dissatisfaction percentage of more than ONE percent.
It really is a matter of corporate culture. GameStop says it's okay, so regardless of what anybody says - it must be okay.
I went to several manager conferences in Tennessee, I vividly remember that it was a sore subject that couldn't be avoided, yet also couldn't really be discussed at private meetings with the higher-ups.
At this point, what it's really going to take is for the "right" customer (i.e. one with a strong legal presence in business law) to get burned by the "gutted games" policy and take action in terms of "false advertising" laws.
And I bet it will happen at some point. We live in a country obsessed with legality, frivolous or otherwise. Until then ... I'll just have to continue being frustrated with what I clearly see to be unfair and dishonest business.
And, for the record, I'd be completely satisfied with Gamestop making it a company-wide policy to offer (with no hastle of speaking with a Manager and begging for a manual shop-worn discount) consumers as little as 10% off on a "gutted" game.
Last edited by Frankie_Says_Relax; 11-07-2007 at 01:44 PM.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
I think the problem here isn't what people will tolerate. It is that 99% of the customers are ignorant of this process and the inherent flaws of it. Most of them do not know that employees can sign-out those games.
With what other products would you tolerate this practice ?
Clothing ?
People buy clothes and return them after wearing them once. If they are well maintained, should a retailer sell them as "new" ? Would you buy a shirt as new that you KNEW was previously worn ? Would it be OK if it was just an employee that wore it ? What about clothes that were other customer's tried on, reracked and sold as new ? Is that similiar to Gamestop's practice ?
Food ?
"I carefully removed the Snickers bar from the wrapper and placed it in a ziploc baggie. This is so I can leave the wrapper on the shelf and I don't have to worry about the candy bar being stolen."
DVDs?
Someone already commented on this using Suncoast as an example.
Video Game Hardware?
Demo models and open boxes of hardware are often sold at a discount. Would you buy a "new" XBox 360 or PS3 at full price that an employee had taken home and played ?
Show me another major retailer that has this same practice for another sealed product.
FRED
As a current GameStop employee, I understand where the guy who wrote that is coming from but I was a customer long before I was an employee so I can understand why people dislike some of the company policies. While I won't comment on every single point he mentions, I will share my thoughts on some of it:
- Gutted new games: Personally, I've never checked out a new game for three reason; one, I take a long time to play through games and would never have a chance to progress in the game, I prefer owning the game just because I like collecting, and last but not least I think about how the customer would feel about buying a pre-played game at full price. I understand where everyone comes from about wanting a discount if the game is the gutted copy you buy, but there has to be a display copy, but I do understand the point there.
- Pre-orders: I maintain decent pre-order and discount card sales numbers, but I have been in game stores that really hound you for either one (Funcoland did this very badly when I was younger) and I can agree that it gets annoying. What we do at our store is, if you're buying a game for the PlayStation 2, we will grab the list of games coming out for the PS2 and let you look through the list while we grab the game(s) for you. I'll usually ask if the customer seen anything they're interested in, ask if they've ever reserved with us (if no I give a run down of how the policy works), and then ask if they'd like to pre-order; if the answer is no, I respect it and move on.
- Discount card: This is pretty much the same case as the pre-orders but I just wanted to keep this seperate. Our store is fairly small so most of our customers have a discount card already, but if someone is buying a fairly high priced game or trading in some games that amount to a decent amount of store credit (and if they don't have the card), I'll run down how it works etc. etc. and ask if they'd like to get it. As with pre-orders, if the answer is no, I move on.
- Trading in games before closing: This is pretty sad for the writer to say, but I'll address it. It is true that the stores are alloted a set amount of hours each week for payroll, and if they are under or over I assume the manager gets in trouble (I'm only a Game Advisor, I'm unsure as to what happens); but if someone brings in 50 trades five minutes before closing we take them in. It doesn't take that long to takes some trade ins and get the customers done with their transaction, but if we see that we just don't have enough time to put the game cases up or something, we will put them in order and leave them for the next day employees.
That's the main highlights of my feelings towards the article. All the other points I found to not be that big of a deal and just didn't mention them. As for some employees saying that you "Will not get *insert game name here* if you do not reserve", that's just bad practice and I would personally never say that (as far as I go is just saying that it makes sure we get a copy for you so you will not have to worry if we do sell out). I hope my opinions didn't come off as bias in anyway, and I appologize if there are any grammar errors or typos in my opinions as I really didn't take time to proof read.
I also am sure customers wouldn't mind you having a 50% off the whole store sale, so you should have one of those as well.I understand and agree with you, but the reality of the situation was that our customers didn't mind us doing that. I know, I know...that doesn't mean it was right. Of course, we stopped doing that once the memory cards were plentiful.
You call it deceitful; we called it creative thinking.
Keep in mind, it's easy for you or me to sit in front of our computer monitors and state that something like that is wrong, but when district managers are keeping track of each store's sales data and sending out emails every week comparing stores to each other and calling every day asking about sales goals and threatening to cut hours if the profit margin doesn't pick up, we had to do what we had to do.
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Dingo,
yes, there should be a display copy, however "gutting" is not the only alternative.
Gamestop is the one of the only major game retail companies that takes part in this practice.
Since all of your POS systems can monitor how many of a current game is "in stock" - there's no reason why you can't have dummy boxes on the shelves and just remove them when you've sold the last copy of any given game.
Or, since most Gamestop stores have security sensor door walk-throughs, simply place new copies on the shelves with plastic security box tags over them.
Of course I'm not actually telling "you" to take these actions within your company, I'm simply illustrating other industry standard alternatives that would 100% eliminate the issue of "gutted" games and unfair business practices.
However, you're proving my point of it being "created/taught/learned" "corporate culture" (i.e. it's the way we do things, the way we've always done things, and the way that we'll continue to do things) within a company, and how it's defended to non-employees of said company.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
I think they're saying that on this point, be mad at the policy if you want, but don't be mad at the employee for doing their job by encouraging reservations.
I'm not that anal about the gutted games personally, because I rarely if ever buy new, sealed games. I'd rather have a near-mint, used, complete copy, and the extra ten bucks in my pocket.
And I think that is the point. When you buy a gutted game you are buying a near-mint, used, complete copy but you aren't getting the extra ten bucks in your pocket !
FRED
Frankie,
You are right that there should be a different way about it; and you're also right about the fact about it being "corporate culture" since that's the way it has always been done in the GameStop stores. As a small collector of games/genres I enjoy I really wish they would change over to a simple "display box" instead of having a gutted case of the game. If I could do something to change it, I would try, but being only a Game Advisor all I can do is hope along with the rest of you.
That happens with clothing all the time. I have no idea who or how many people have tried on a pair of pants, shoes, or a shirt before I buy it...yet, it's still considered new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?
That also happens with books and magazines. People go to Barnes and Noble, read the books and magazines, and put them back on the shelves. They are used, yet Barnes and Noble has the nerve to sell them as new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?
That also happens with cars. People test drive cars all the time. That means they're used, but dealerships still sell them as new! Should we file a class action lawsuit?
Food is a different story because it is perishable. An unsealed snack can have bacteria on it and make people ill. However, an unsealed video game can't cause illness.
Last edited by Rob2600; 11-07-2007 at 06:25 PM.
I'm talking about things that benefit both the customer and the company.
Keep in mind, I'm not defending or promoting GameStop. Like I wrote in a previous post, I can't stand most retail employees or stores. I'm just sharing my experiences from several years ago. For better or worse, I was paid to do a job and good things happen to stores that consistently rank at the top every week.
I agree. That would make sense and would be a good solution. I bet if that were implemented, many GameStop stores would stop gutting games. 10% off a new game is a decent chunk of profit margin that store managers probably wouldn't want to sacrifice. As a result, I'm sure they'd come up with other ways of displaying games.
Last edited by Rob2600; 11-07-2007 at 06:22 PM.
There are certain classifications of goods exempted under the laws of many states which allow certain classes of goods to be returned without changing their classification to used. Unsoiled clothing and cars are two of those goods. In the case of cars, however, if the dealer takes you on a test drive in California and forgets to put on a dealer plate and someone catches it, the car becomes classified as used under California law. You might think it's a joke, but I used to represent manufacturers and dealers and it happened at least twice that I can recall when overzealous police officers decided to pull over a car on a test drive as the result of a ticketable offense and triggered the whole issue. Similarly, if someone buys a car and it gets repo'ed, it has to be disclosed to the subsequent buyer, even if the initial buyer didn't have the chance to drive the vehicle in the time they had it.
Video games are not exempt from any state law regarding the classification of new goods that I'm aware of.
And this is at the core of what I'm talking about. There are already laws in place to protect consumers from this type of practice ... they're just being ignored by GameStop, and violations are not being reported to the proper consumer law authorities by GameStop customers ... because, well, as long as they get their copy of whatever game they want, it becomes a non-issue.
GameStop relies on a tremendous level of apathy by consumers nationwide for it to operate thousands of stores which utilize the "gutted" games practice.
As it's been said by some, "most" gamers don't care about "gutted" games ... and "most" probably don't. But as long as "some" do care, that's all it takes. I've worked for companies that have changed entire company policies due to just the threat of one single lawsuit for improper business practices.
All it's going to take is an educated, motivated person in the area of consumer law to somehow get burned by this policy, and subsequently take action, and I can almost guarantee that we'll see a drastic change in business by GameStop Inc.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
Bojay, you seem to have professional legal training. Do you have the time and energy to file a class action? At the very least it will get you on the evening news
You know, I went to buy Silent Hill 0rigins and Call of Duty 4 today at my local GameStop. They had sold my goddamn preorder for Silent Hill to someone else, and apparently got NO extra copies of CoD 4. The dumb fuck behind the counter told me I should have preordered it. I told him that took some balls to say to me, cancelled all my preorders, and went to Best Buy... You know, where they actually carry new fucking games.
I argue that even if I HAD preordered CoD 4, they would have sold my fucking preorder anyway.
Fuck GameStop. It's the internet and Best Buy for me.
Wasn't Gamestop already sued for selling used product as new?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...mestop+lawsuit
What was the final outcome of this suit?
http://www.gamestop.com/gs/help/classaction.asp
Wow, there was a lawsuit.
Full disclosure on their website ...
... and ... the ... proposed settlement ...
... wait.
what?
is that some kind of JOKE?
If you were sold a used game as a new game, you were eligible for a ...
COUPON FOR FIVE FREAKING PERCENT OFF A PURCHASE?!?!?
FIVE PERCENT?!?!
OMG, that's just ridiculous. They might as well just give them a free issue of Game Informer and call it a day.
I wonder if this lawsuit being settled has caused a legal precedent for the company that pretty much allows them to LEGALLY continue the heinous business practice of "gutted" games being sold at full new retail price.
Any legal experts in the house?
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
The whole mess boils down to how the company treats people. They don't value their employees nor their customers -- they only value their stock price/grade and the money you can either fork over (as a customer) or tap into (as an employee) for them. Hence their customers and workers are completely disposable. Many large companies practice this as well, but most try and at least obscure or skirt the issue. Unlike GS, who are so blasé and unconcerned about it. I guess that bothers me the most. That and the guy who wrote this is an obvious mouthpiece spewing forth the corporate spin in an attempt to relate. Such bullshit.
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