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Thread: C64 lovefest on CNN.com!!!

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) le geek's Avatar
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    legeek2112

    Default C64 lovefest on CNN.com!!!

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html

    25th anniversary...Sweet!

    Cheers,
    Ben
    le geek retrogaming
    RETRO REVIEWS / WANTED / BACKLOGGERY / MY DP FEEDBACK

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) skylark's Avatar
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    Cool. I'll have to keep an eye out for that cd.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) ccovell's Avatar
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    The Apple II outperformed the C64 graphically???


    In what universe?

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    Apple (Level 5) zemmix's Avatar
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    Maybe a good time to unload the Commodore carts on ebay?

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    Pear (Level 6) mb7241's Avatar
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    I've a C64 setup here... During the time I had it, I never used it, but it's a Commodore monitor (fully functional), CIB Commodore 64 system, brand new/unsealed 1541 disk drive, and brand new/still sealed (the big copper staples are still holding the box shut, as well as the packing tape) Commodore printer... Surprisingly enough, I don't think I have any games for it :S ...
    World's greatest Internet game store: http://blastedmachines.com

    Also on Facebook: http://facebook.com/BlastedMachinesTechShop

    Wanted: Any and all Dragon Quest, Lufia/Estpolis, Tales of series, and NIS games, strategy guides, and miscellaneous items. Will pay $$$ or trade well for items I don't already have.

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    Pretzel (Level 4) 8bitgamer's Avatar
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    Heh, my wife just now sent me that link. Pretty cool. I wasn't into computer programming or anything like that back in the day, but I still collect for cartridge-compatible computers like the C64, Vic 20, Atari 800, and TI-99.

  7. #7
    Kirby (Level 13) diskoboy's Avatar
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    Still, the C64 had an uneven reputation. It was widely considered clunky, its BASIC outdated and graphics weak in comparison to the Apple II and Atari 800, according to McCracken. And then there was the quirky floppy drive. "It was pitifully slow," Bagnall said. "It was big and noisy. It sounded like a Gatling gun when it was trying to load stuff."
    And people wonder why CNN lost it's credibitlity. (the youtube Republican debate debacle didn't help much, either.)

    The C64 blew the Atari 400/800 out of the water. Apple had good GFX, thats a given, but I still think the Commodore ran most games alot better than the Apple ][.

    Example: Robotron:2084 ran way faster on my C64 than any Apple I ever played it on. Congo Bongo looked damn good on both platforms, but the Apple version was way too choppy for my tastes. Same with Tapper - The C64 version was almost arcade perfect. The Apple version ran very slow. And hello!!???? Apple and Atari were also using BASIC, too. And I didn't compare any c64 games to Ataris cmputers because if anything, Atari had the worst computers of the 3. That's like saying the Atari 5200 was better than a Playstation.

    And I'll be damned if I ever sell my Jumpman Jr. cart
    Last edited by diskoboy; 12-07-2007 at 05:36 PM.

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    Insert Coin (Level 0)
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    I never even wound up owning a Commodore 64 until maybe around 2 years ago, although one of my friends owned one back in the 80's. I owned an Apple IIe back in the day, and I definitely agree with diskoboy and ccovell, the Commodore 64 had much better graphics than the Apple II line, except for maybe the GS. But the bulk of the games for the Apple II line were for the II+, IIe, IIc, and took advantage of either 48K or 64K RAM. The extra 64K on the IIc's and some of the IIe's were hardly taken advantage of. To me the only memorable exception was Might & Magic II (loved that game!!) The Commodore 64 had sprite graphics, 16 colors and better resolution as opposed to the Apple. Also the Apple had goofy things with the colors, odd numbered pixels could be one of two colors, even numbered pixels could one of two other colors. Anyone who did assembly language programming on the Apple II probably remember that bit of weirdness.

    And then the sound programming on the C64, way way way way better than the Apple II. Although the Apple II has more of a place in my heart, you gotta give credit to the Commodore 64 for being the better machine for graphics & sound.

  9. #9
    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diskoboy View Post
    And people wonder why CNN lost it's credibitlity. (the youtube Republican debate debacle didn't help much, either.)

    The C64 blew the Atari 400/800 out of the water. Apple had good GFX, thats a given, but I still think the Commodore ran most games alot better than the Apple ][.

    Example: Robotron:2084 ran way faster on my C64 than any Apple I ever played it on. Congo Bongo looked damn good on both platforms, but the Apple version was way too choppy for my tastes. Same with Tapper - The C64 version was almost arcade perfect. The Apple version ran very slow. And hello!!???? Apple and Atari were also using BASIC, too. And I didn't compare any c64 games to Ataris cmputers because if anything, Atari had the worst computers of the 3. That's like saying the Atari 5200 was better than a Playstation.

    And I'll be damned if I ever sell my Jumpman Jr. cart

    I think they (CNN) are right, and I'm running A8 and C64 side by side since 1986 (even had an Apple ][ from 1988 -1995).

    C-64 is good in some aspects, eg games, but even games by not much, see my signature what the experts had to say (UK Commodore magazine ZZAP!64).

    Dropzone runs faster and looks better with less code on A8 than the C64 version, same with Mercenary (C64 version very choppy), M.U.L.E. (A8 music better than c64 version), Tapper (A8 plays better than C64 version). I could name many titles which shine on A8 and are sloppy on C64, thing is by the time the programmers learned the C64, they had abandoned the A8.

    Elite, for example, runs worse on C64 than on the Spectrum computer, and that's saying something!! Even Afterburner plays better on Speccy than C64.

    To say Atari had the worst 8-bit computer of all 3 is just plain ignorance (or lack of knowledge on your part), and to put in a comparison 5200 vs PSX, that doesn't even work.

    The only reason why the C64 'blew the A8 out of the water' was the cheap selling price, Atari couldn't match that.

    Sound, for example, I know Sid and Pokey are very close in comparison (Just listen to the A8 'The Big Demo', and you'll see (hear) for yourself).

    A8 is also better in many other aspects, WP for example (Those C64 WPs were just plain shitty). That's just it with the C64, you 'just' played games on it, whilst on Apple ][ and A8 you did many other things too.





    ..
    Last edited by tom; 12-07-2007 at 08:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Chaos Knight
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    Though the Zzap!64 quote is from 85, before the C64 really took over

    We had the argument over at Retro Gamer, boy was that a vicious time... I still think overall the C64 is better graphically and sonically...

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Though the Zzap!64 quote is from 85, before the C64 really took over

    We had the argument over at Retro Gamer, boy was that a vicious time... I still think overall the C64 is better graphically and sonically...

    Retro Gamer forum is full of unknowledgeable idiots (especially the UK people, mostly WoS rejects), don't even bother starting/replying anything there.

    Have you ever used an A8 over a period of time, compared peripherals, fdds, used WPs for comparison, Music software, educational softs, graphic software like Koala on both computers, digitisers even (I own Print Technik Video digitiser for C64 and A8), Printers, BBS, speed, etc….? How long did you compare both computers? Or all three for that matter? (True, the Apple ][ needs a Mockingbird or simular for better sound, but still...actually, that was the beauty of the Apple ][, open architecture)

    And don't say, Oh but I seen A8 on YouTube and stuff, that is just superficial.
    ..
    Last edited by tom; 12-08-2007 at 07:06 AM.

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    Cherry (Level 1)
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    (IMO)

    The article contains a revised history where the C64 was "widely known to be clunky with weak graphics". Yeah, right. DOS sucked unless you bought a fast load cart, for sure, but everyone did.

    The Apple had far inferior graphics and sound, and was just ridiculously overpriced. They never really improved the design (or the price!) since 1977, though, and they should have had something like the GS much earlier and much cheaper. It was relegated to rich and upper-middle class homes who drank Apple's kool-aid.

    The Atari was a nice machine, but while having a faster CPU, was a little behind the 64 in graphics and sound, mostly only because it was developed 3-4 years earlier. Atari wasn't able to meet Commodore's price point because their manufacturing costs were much higher (they had to buy all chips from MOS, which Commodore owned). By the time they slimmed down and sold the 800XL, the 64 had taken over the middle-class market. Most developers dropped the Atari in favor of the 64.

    It was unstoppable in the $100-$200 range. Because of the TV commercials from Kit Spencer, everyone who wanted a new game console bought a C64 instead.
    -
    Pete Rittwage
    C64 Preservation Project
    http://c64preservation.com

  13. #13
    Chaos Knight
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    I'm only really interested in games Tom... and in that respect the C64 generally has better titles overall, it got most of the good Atari titles anyhow.

    But I'm not continuing the argument because it's been done to death...

  14. #14
    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Yeah, but there's nothing like a good debate to keep those C64ers in order

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    Pretzel (Level 4)
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    Funny. I remember seeing this Rob Kramer on Dutch televison where he told about the orchestra who played C64 music. They showed Cybernoid II as an example of it.

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