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Thread: "Inside Source Reveal the Truth About Xbox 360 "Red Ring of Death" Failures"

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    Default Deep throat speaks MS insider secretly speaks out on RRd issues

    Filed under microgate
    Deepthroat speaks or emails

    I read this article and found it very interesting. A technical look of what has been happing by an MS insider. True or not it is a compelling read. I knew about the warp boards but some of the other stuff I didn't.


    http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives...h_failures.php
    Last edited by gepeto; 01-21-2008 at 12:33 PM.
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    Default "Inside Source Reveal the Truth About Xbox 360 "Red Ring of Death" Failures"

    http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/d...ves/129866.asp

    I work in electronics manufacturing, and it's amazing to me how they kept the lines running with a 30% yield. (That means "only 30% of the boards we're making are passing the parts/functionality tests. Should we stop the production lines, find out what's causing the problems, fix them, and make good boards? No! Let's keep running crap and ship that crap to the customer!")

    The parts about ignoring the tests altogether and shipping a product they know is defective, just to beat Sony out of their marketshare, really pisses me off. Fuck the consumer, the shareholders are the only important element here. I know that's how business works and all, but as the consumer, the guy who is getting bent over and fucked, (theoretically- I've never bought a 360) it just pisses me off.

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    I am so surprised to and the new boards was at 10%. I was surprised this wasn't discussed much it was a great article.I was also surprised that IBM and ati got off scott free. So where is the engineers accountability. I think it is hire than 30%. he just didn't want to start an uproar.
    Last edited by gepeto; 01-23-2008 at 04:21 PM.
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    Are either interviewer or interviewee english speakers?

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    Yeah thats not a particularly great interview, lots of errors. Interesting though and fairly believable to.

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    I work in electronics manufacturing, and it's amazing to me how they kept the lines running with a 30% yield. (That means "only 30% of the boards we're making are passing the parts/functionality tests. Should we stop the production lines, find out what's causing the problems, fix them, and make good boards? No! Let's keep running crap and ship that crap to the customer!")
    But wait:

    [The failure rate is] around 30%, and all will probably fail early.
    If a batch has a failure rate of 30%, then it has a yield of 70%. A 70% yield is pretty typical for the first run of a high-end product. So, not that bad. But wait, there's more!

    Initial end to end yields were in the mid 30%.
    So first it's 70%, and now it's 30%? Umm... what?
    Last edited by CartCollector; 01-23-2008 at 07:09 PM.
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    its kinda sad, everyone on my xbox live friends list had their 360s breakdown on them...all 80 of them!!! I myself am on my 3rd 360 right now...but damn, 360 has some great games...must..keep..replacing..360....
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    Well the interview was done via email so it is what it is. 30% is too high.
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    Oops....

    Quote Originally Posted by CartCollector View Post
    But wait:



    If a batch has a failure rate of 30%, then it has a yield of 70%. A 70% yield is pretty typical for the first run of a high-end product. So, not that bad. But wait, there's more!



    So first it's 70%, and now it's 30%? Umm... what?
    I didn't pay much attention to the failure rate quote, it's the "Initial end to
    end yields were in the mid 30%" thing that caught me, it's unthinkable. But even if it's a typo or whatever, 70% is still too low.

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    Merged together since this one actually had posts in it.
    Because it makes no attempt to be great, it is therefore extremely great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FantasiaWHT View Post
    Are either interviewer or interviewee english speakers?
    The interviewer is Jacob Metcalf, the founder of 8bitjoystick.com. Correct grammar and usage are not his strong suits, but he knows games. I can't speak for the clandestine interviewee.
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk... Have at you!"

    My feedback thread: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93213

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    I still have trouble believing that the failure rate is so high because I have never seen the 3 red rings exept for once when the power turned off and then on suddenly. I restarted my system and it worked fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8-bitNesMan View Post
    The interviewer is Jacob Metcalf, the founder of 8bitjoystick.com. Correct grammar and usage are not his strong suits, but he knows games.
    I wouldn't go that far either, a long time back, like back when 8bitjoystick.com was actually a decent team blog before becoming a bunch of links and one sided reviews, he had a retro game week or something to that effect. He consistently refered to a Computer Space arcade cabinet as Pong. I offered a comment and a little correction and then.. oh then.. the guns came out. All I was doing was trying to help with his accuracy concerning one of the most basic of basics when it comes to arcade history, but noooo... he wouldn't hear anything of it.

    That, all his pro Generation Nex propaganda, and his constant political whitewashing (if you're so gun-ho about freedoms and every vote counting then why act as if there are only two political parties coast to coast and be steadfast to one being some huge evil) made me look into the rest of his posts again. Me no more ready his bloggy... er, e-zine...y.

    Interesting stuff though, I would love for the grey areas (30% / 70%) to be cleaned up and confirmed. Honestly that whole article is full of holes right from the start...

    "This past week I met and interviewed an individual..."
    "Update : The interview was done via email."


    Yeah, hi, nice to meet you... okay send me some e-mails, bye!

    Then the interview itself...

    "I have a launch unit and have not had a single problem with it. And it's used a lot."

    Then at the end of the interview, after being asked if the source plays games they respond...

    Just a little. I lack the hardware abstraction layer in my brain that allows me to translate body motion into controller commands. If I am playing a racing game and I want to turn right I tend to turn the controller to the right. Just like the Wii.

    That unit must get a LOT of use, hmm?

    I'd LOVE for this to be 100% accurate (although most of us assumed that there was plenty of BS afoot at MS with the 360) and most of it is probably true in one way or another. Until there is a real named source however, I can't do much else than pass it off as well known common speculation. Probably true, but without the confirmed facts. Of course, those things aren't needed to boost one's ego.
    Last edited by InsaneDavid; 01-25-2008 at 03:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slate View Post
    I still have trouble believing that the failure rate is so high because I have never seen the 3 red rings exept for once when the power turned off and then on suddenly. I restarted my system and it worked fine.
    I'd never seen them either, until tonight when my 360 died. Had it less than 2 years, always used in a well ventilated area, and also I rarely played it for more than 2 hours at a time. Then tonight during a Warriors Orochi session the game locked up, when I restarted it happened again, and then bingo, the lights.

    At least MS makes it easy to file the claim online and my box should be here soon I hope, but still. The night before Rez HD too, bad timing!

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    The company I now work for repairs Xbox 360s (along with iPods, notebooks, and desktops). Hundreds of 360s every month. We have highly specialized equipment meant solely for repairing the units. Extremely expensive stuff.

    Anyway, the models with the new heatsink come in just as frequently. Also, almost every single failed unit has failed because the GPU's solder joints became unseated. The actual motherboard warps and causes this. It doesn't help that the extreme pressure the board is under to keep it in place allows 0 flexibility, as there are many footpounds of pressure on them. That, and MS's cheapness has them making very thin boards...a completely innapropriate thinness

    So, there's some info from the horse's mouth.

    So, if you want your 360 fixed and want YOUR OWN UNIT returned to you, and not some other refurb, and you don't care about MS's warranty, blueraven.com is the place to go. Ask for me and I'll help you out if you want.

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    what do you know...my 360 just broke down today...yay! RROD and everything!
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    The 30% yield refers to the amount of units that came through the assembly process that actually work (70% were just trashed). Of those, 30% failed. There is no discrepancy there expect that the two percentages added to 100%, so it was misleading. If they said 40% yield, 20% failure rate, it would be more obvious that the two percentages refer to two different processes.

    The interesting part is that the GPU is the primary source of the overheating, which means that unless they redesign the chip or the heatsink assembly to bring down the temp, I won't be getting an Xbox 360. Replacing the CPU with a 65nm chip is not enough to fix the issue.

    The fact that they will simply give me any old refurb model if I need warranty repair means that as soon as my 360 fails, I will be stuck in an endless loop of failing devices. I would not consider this fun. If I had already invested hundreds of dollars in games and accessories, I may feel like I have to get it repaired. I don't want to be held hostage like that.
    Last edited by UniHamachi; 02-03-2008 at 09:17 AM.

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