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Thread: The double- edged Wii – Economic Success and Game Quality

  1. #181
    Pac-Man (Level 10) djbeatmongrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    What is your point? (I suspect what's coming...in your own interest please think before you post.)
    First of all, fuck you for saying that. I thought heavily about how to respond to it and I realized I don't like taking shit from a holier than thou ignoramus.

    Back on topic, from what i have played through on the wii which is damn near everying you have listed so far i'll say with full confidence that most of what you have played really arent the best offerings of what the wii has in terms of quality. No More Heroes, Zak and Wiki, and Metriod prime corruptions are probably the best games on the system that make special use of the controls withough feeling tacked on. while there are other good games on the system, these three seem to go beyond my expectations in quality for the wii and heres why:

    No More Heroes: Overall a fine tuned hack and slash game where the motion sensitive controls are only required for doing the wrestling grapples, your special ending sword swings and recharging your beam katana. But one of the innovative things i have seen is that before every boss you get a phone call the plays through the wiimote and out of reflex you end holding the controller to your ear like a phone to hear it clearly.

    Zack & Wiki: Its a cool point and click movement styled adventure with a lot of puzzle solving elements. The controls range from a numerous amount of movements that naturally make sense when playing.

    Metroid Prime 3 Corruption: the game is not only beautiful but is a fantastic FPS/FPA experience. Theres some nice little touches like tracing to wield destroyed circuits, pulling off shields with your grappling hook and other small things.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue lander View Post
    BS. You started this thread out by calling the wii a "Tragedy for game quality", the wiimote a dissapointment on all fronts, and the only reason the wii is succeeding is because of a marketing gimmick. That isn't skepticism, that's condemnation. You've already reached your conclusion a year into the system's life. Don't kid yourself into thinking that you're some scientist carefully debating the technical pros and cons of the wiimote, this thread is just a more wordy version of the ones 10 year olds post on a gamefaqs board saying "wii is teh suxxorz".
    This is your response (“BS”) to my statement that I evaluated the Wii motion sensing ONLY based upon games we have in our hands 16 months after its release? Didn’t you read that in my OP? Again, you are making up distracting scapegoats.

    I said in my OP: “16 months after its release we can certainly say that the new control scheme is an utter disappointment on all fronts.” Did you read anything about predictions of the quality of Wii games three years from now? And if not, how is it possible for me to condemn the Wii too early as you allege?

    All of the things I wrote aren’t FINAL judgement calls of the entire Wii life span of probably five years. They are judgement calls of the last 16 months.

    You were clearly contradicted, and again, you shift to another issue and bring up the whole condemnation thing. Does this make sense to you?

    You said it is pre-mature to judge the technology so early because “utilizing new technology are terrible failures...What kind of judgement calls can you possibly make from that?” I said the judgement calls of games released in the last 16 months.

    You call it BS. Am I missing something? Your response is completely besides the point. You can disagree with me because I was too harsh with the Wii, but the alleged “condemnation” is based on games which were so far produced! I evaluated in every post only what is there! I’m not dealing in hopes or religious experiences, I deal with reality.

    How long should I wait to evaluate the first 16 months of the Wii? One or two years from now? Am I allowed to say in two years that the motion sensing of Wii games were disappointing in the first year after its release but developers were able to work with it and implemented it in a fantastic way since then? OR that the motion sensing of Wii games were disappointing in the first year after its release and it never changed or even got worse since then?

    Are we allowed to evaluate the motion sensing in Tiger Woods 08 or should we wait one year because the game hasn’t reached its full potential yet?

    No matter how the Wii motion sensing will develop, no matter how motion sensing in general will develop, it doesn’t change ZILCH about the quality of motion sensing of the Wii so far.

    You are overly enthusiastic and in constant defense mode. On the one hand you admit the technical limitations of the Wii mote (nothing else is the focus of the thread, nothing else was criticized by me and others), on the other hand you demand understanding for a “first iteration of new technology” which will be in 2018 THE “ubiquitous” standard of controls.

    This is your problem right there. You believe so strongly in the Wii motion sensing as the first step on a glory road that it skews dissenting opinions. You cannot understand nuanced positions. You distract from responses. You are in a defense mode. You engage in circular argumentation and fall constantly back on your statements already made and present it as NEW responses.

    If you can agree with blissfulnoise, you can also agree with me because I say nothing else.

    Get it out of your head that I condemned the future of the Wii. I don’t know about the quality of future releases like House of The Dead 2 and 3 and so many other games on its list of future releases..

    Lets forget about the nonsensical Indy car comparison. The wii is judged by what it is supposed to do, not what the PS3 is supposed to do or a rice farmer in Vietnam; otherwise you wouldn’t 1) admit that there are limitations of the technology, 2) developers wouldn’t try to do something with it and fail for the most part, 3) Miyamoto wouldn’t demand that motion sensing should be fully implemented.

    Yeah, I’m afraid your response will be that developers just don’t try hard enough and are simply out to make a buck or just like it the way it is or are not open-minded enough or just need more time to discover the full potential of the new technology or that Miyamotos standards and intentiuons are not mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djbeatmongrel View Post
    First of all, fuck you for saying that. I thought heavily about how to respond to it and I realized I don't like taking shit from a holier than thou ignoramus.

    Back on topic, from what i have played through on the wii which is damn near everying you have listed so far i'll say with full confidence that most of what you have played really arent the best offerings of what the wii has in terms of quality. No More Heroes, Zak and Wiki, and Metriod prime corruptions are probably the best games on the system that make special use of the controls withough feeling tacked on. while there are other good games on the system, these three seem to go beyond my expectations in quality for the wii and heres why:

    No More Heroes: Overall a fine tuned hack and slash game where the motion sensitive controls are only required for doing the wrestling grapples, your special ending sword swings and recharging your beam katana. But one of the innovative things i have seen is that before every boss you get a phone call the plays through the wiimote and out of reflex you end holding the controller to your ear like a phone to hear it clearly.

    Zack & Wiki: Its a cool point and click movement styled adventure with a lot of puzzle solving elements. The controls range from a numerous amount of movements that naturally make sense when playing.

    Metroid Prime 3 Corruption: the game is not only beautiful but is a fantastic FPS/FPA experience. Theres some nice little touches like tracing to wield destroyed circuits, pulling off shields with your grappling hook and other small things.
    I dislike the f-word, and all the other points you make were made days ago and got responses. There is absolutely nothing new there. In my OP I specifically addressed No More Heroes.

    You can save valuable time to respond if you read what others said. It also makes for good responses; and if responses or the entire thread are too long to read, it still doesn't make sense to post in this case.

  4. #184
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    Heh, you know a thread has gone down the crapper when people start nitpicking things other people said 20 posts ago, but here we go...

    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    All of the things I wrote aren’t FINAL judgement calls of the entire Wii life span of probably five years. They are judgement calls of the last 16 months.
    Because you're such a good writer, you put a summary of what your argument was in the third paragraph, just like I used to do when I had to write essays in high school...

    I content that the economic success of the Wii is a tragedy for game quality and the popularity of games but has also some positive aspects for game development.
    And that, not an evaluation of how the wiimote has been used in the last 16 months, is what this thread was about. And that's what I'm calling BS on.

    And to further contradict your attempts to backpedal from the untenable position your OP put you in, you go on to say the wiimote is a marketing gimmick and nothing else. That is a final judgment call. If it's just a marketing gimmick and nothing else, then that's what it was conceived of, that's what it was when it was designed, that's what it is after 16 months, and that's what it is at the end of its lifespan.

    You are overly enthusiastic and in constant defense mode. On the one hand you admit the technical limitations of the Wii mote (nothing else is the focus of the thread, nothing else was criticized by me and others), on the other hand you demand understanding for a “first iteration of new technology” which will be in 2018 THE “ubiquitous” standard of controls.
    See above on the whole focus-of-the-thread thing. I don't blame you for trying to shift it to something less ridiculous, but there it is. And I base my personal opinion on the future of motion controls on the reaction by the public to the wii, not on the wii itself or its first 16 months games or it's wiimote. If I thought I could scrutinize a handful of launch titles and come to a conclusion about what games would look like in 2018, I'd be as mistaken as you are.

    Lets forget about the nonsensical Indy car comparison. The wii is judged by what it is supposed to do, not what the PS3 is supposed to do or a rice farmer in Vietnam; otherwise you wouldn’t 1) admit that there are limitations of the technology, 2) developers wouldn’t try to do something with it and fail for the most part, 3) Miyamoto wouldn’t demand that motion sensing should be fully implemented.
    Exactly, what it is supposed to do, not what you wish it did or what you expected it to. And while I'm beating this dead horse, 1) all new technologies have limitations making them less than ideal, 2) Developers always fail for the most part at first when they try something new, and 3)... well, I'd have to read the interview or wherever you're taking that from to make any remark on it.

    And while I don't have a problem with swearing per se, I do have a problem with getting so upset about what some guy wrote on a message board, especially about a child's toy, especially about a child's toy that's such a raging success that it doesn't matter what any of us think about it, that I feel compelled to use them.

  5. #185
    Pac-Man (Level 10) djbeatmongrel's Avatar
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    Blue lander, you've gained my respect.
    Lendelin, not so much.
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  6. #186
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    Woohoo! I wonder if the designers of the wii knew that something they created to help people have fun (the real mark of success, rather than just pushing as many polygons as possible) would lead to so much anger.

  7. #187
    Pac-Man (Level 10) djbeatmongrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue lander View Post
    Woohoo! I wonder if the designers of the wii knew that something they created to help people have fun (the real mark of success, rather than just pushing as many polygons as possible) would lead to so much anger.
    I have this theory: the cuter, simpler, generally pure fun type of games/consoles cause you to become more irate at the drop of a hat. Just think of it next time you are cursing off a E rated platformer or something.
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    bluelander and djbeatmongrel, I once apologized for saying that you two hit the ignorant fanboylevel, which is different from calling someone an ignorant fanboy.

    After I read your enlightening and emotional contributions, I call you two just little ignorant fanboys.

    This is it for me, reasoning with you is futile.

    I leave it to everyone who has the misfortune to read your posts to come to their own concluson and treat you in the future as such -- ignorant fanboys who delve into the resentment business, dividing gamers in good ones and bad ones, deflecting from the reaoning of others becasue they run out of arguments.

    You made the DP site a very uncomfortable experience, and I think I'll not log as noften as I used to.

    Intellectually you suffer from autism. I suggest you create your own thread praising Wii games and the glorious future of it in three years on the road to a even brighter future for gaming in 2025. And if someone dares to disagree with your group, you should just personally attack him and just ignore what he actually has to say. It is always good to read something into opinions which were never expressed in order to save your own.

    Your reaction is only explainable because you lost hands-down a debate and can only delve into personal attacks.

    Sorry for my English, I'm not a native speaker and didn't grow up in America. But at least I have much more to refer to than High School essays, and unlike you I didn't stay on this level but moved on to College, two PHDs, and teaching experience in various Colleges for twenty years now. If you offer me to proof read one of my papers and articles, I politely decline. I leave that to others.

    Talking to you two is like talking with someone about religion. The Wii seems to be a religious experience for you with hopes, dreams, and a future which promises paradise. You two are little missionaries who take gaming way too serious -- a suspicion I had when you attacked others as taking little toys too seriously. You are way too emotional -- a suspicion I had when you attacked others as being upset. You two are also intolerant -- a suspicion I had when you blamed others of intolerance.

    You two cannot 1) think, 2) be fair, 3) pick up core points of others and respond in any meaningful way. I'm afraid with your learning curve and intelligence level that it will stay this way for a very long time.

    I suggest to a moderator that this thread should be locked before I'm called an old videogame nerd again.

    It was a good discussion until immature boys tried to deal with adults.

  9. #189
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    You're right, this discussion is pointless. Finally we agree on something! Not because I'm an immature fanboy (I haven't actually liked a Nintendo console since the SNES, the N64 probably being my least favorite console ever), but because I read that other thread from three years ago where you predicted the demise of Nintendo with the same certainty and technical precision as you're proclaiming the failure of the wii now. Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.... that's classic Lendelin! History has shown how disjointed your reality is from the one the rest of us live in.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) djbeatmongrel's Avatar
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    Fanboy no, someone who thoroughly enjoys the Wii, yes. I see the benefits and negatives of each system out now but the wii caters to my tastes overall. All i have been saying is try certain games out before you come to your conclusions that seem slightly short sighted given nintendo's surprise success with their other "gimmick" console the ds.

    You have an incredible ability to spin around a persons post and make them seem wrong even when it's there personal view. It's almost as if you are the crappy clone of Bill O'Reiley.

    Don't use your education to make a point in a conversation when its totally unrelated to it. It again not only makes you look like a holier than thou ignoramus but now you looks likea pompous ass. Good for you.

    I would not call you an old videogame nerd because 1) it's a lame insult and most people who know me know i can do much better than that. 2) I wouldn't even call that an insult, and old videogame nerd would probably be more positively excitable and accepting of anything videogame related and refrain from doom saying like the crazy man on a soap box. Theres is no 3rd point although I know three seems to be the magic number for solid reasoning or atleast looks better in writing.

    Really this thread shows that you have a noose around your neck and your soap box is creeking. How much longer till you hang yourself with your weighty words?
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  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    I suggest to a moderator that this thread should be locked before I'm called an old videogame nerd again.
    I've heard worse than being called an old videogame nerd, but you guys are going around in a circle about opinions and nothing is going to change your opinions on this.

    Yes this is new tech, yes this has some serious potential, yes its currently being poorly managed by many developers/publishers and yes there are games out there that are doing it correctly, right now.

    Hows about we all take the high road on this as adults should do.

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