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Thread: Can we please remove bingo from the "offical release" RCA Studio II library

  1. #26
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    Personally I lean toward Joe's side with this one, but I do want to point out that it is entirely possible for an unreleased game to have proper packaging and the like. If someone were to come forward with a very authentic-appearing copy of Propellar Arena for the Dreamcast - hell, if we could somehow confirm it was authentically manufactured - would it go in the released section? It's entirely possible that the game was manufactured and then destroyed, or met some similar fate. Another example would be the variant version of Wally Bear on the NES that I owned at one point. Entirely different publisher than the one we're aware of, complete with a glossy professional label, but probably not released at retail.

    Just throwing some fuel into the fire, it's an interesting debate.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedEye View Post
    Personally I lean toward Joe's side with this one, but I do want to point out that it is entirely possible for an unreleased game to have proper packaging and the like. If someone were to come forward with a very authentic-appearing copy of Propellar Arena for the Dreamcast - hell, if we could somehow confirm it was authentically manufactured - would it go in the released section? It's entirely possible that the game was manufactured and then destroyed, or met some similar fate. Another example would be the variant version of Wally Bear on the NES that I owned at one point. Entirely different publisher than the one we're aware of, complete with a glossy professional label, but probably not released at retail.

    Just throwing some fuel into the fire, it's an interesting debate.
    Sure, but given the size of the Dreamcast collector's community, if it was ever released in a retail store, someone would know it. On a system like the Studio II, where few if any of us would claim to be an expert or avid collector, there just aren't enough people out there looking for games or who owned one back in the day to make this determination either way. In cases like that, you just have to go with the evidence you find and in this situation, the fact that several respected members of this community have physically inspected the game and packaging is strong proof that it did get a retail release. I'm not in support of creating a separate section because it's just not warranted. A complete RCA Studio II collection includes Bingo in my opinion and if anyone disagrees, they don't have to make an effort to find it for their own personal collection. It's as simple as that.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalpress View Post
    Myself and several others saw this game, in a retail box, firsthand at PhillyClassic (2, I believe, in 2001). The guy wouldn't part with it. Al Backiel and I'm pretty sure Matt Reichert can confirm this, as we were three people who certainly did care.
    Hi guys,

    I can indeed vouch for this ultra rare cart. I remember seeing it at PC 2 quite clearly. Back then several people had little collections set up on their tables in addition to selling stuff (I myself had an Arcadia 2001 setup going). One of the guys there had an RCA Studio II collection all set up. This guy had everything! IIRC he said he got it from some mom and pop store in PA that had this dislpay in the back of their store for years.

    Anyway, back to the cart. From what I remember it was packaged in a large rectangular box, like TV Schoolhouse I. It was blue and it was part of the TV Casino series (I remember this because I laughed at how "Bingo was now considered to be gambling"). The box had several bingo cards and tokens in it, but I honestly don't remember seeing the cart itself (although I'm sure it was in the box). The guy didn't actually demo the game, and as Joe pointed out, he wouldn't sell it at any price.

    If I had to guess I'd say that this was a very limited production run game. It was probably the last game RCA produced, and they probably either only sent out a handful of copies, or only sent them out to dealers to demo. I'd say that it might have been only available via mail order, but the guy said he got it from the mom and pop electronics store with the rest of their stuff, so it was at least sent out to dealers and not a mail order only title.

    It was definitely a production game though, it was not a prototype.

    I hope this helps to clear up the mystery a bit (or maybe I just added to it?).

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  4. #29
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    If Gamma Attack is checked and doesn't have prototype parts inside of it then I would consider it an actual release, it doesn't make sense as a homebrew since it wasn't made by a private person and sold by another company AFAIK. Cubicolor and Actionauts I don't know, I would add them to the US releases section since they were worked on when he was part of Imagic but he kept the rights and released it on his own. Either way though it could go in the homebrew section as well.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    It was definitely a production game though, it was not a prototype.
    Thanks for the input Matt! You've actually cleared up some of the fuzzy images I had about that day. Why on earth did none of us have a camera on hand? I'm quite sure that anyone who saw the genuine article there would agree that this was no probotype but a bona fide super-rare game.

    I wonder where that guy is now? And why on earth did none of us get his contact information!?

  6. #31
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    We know it was a production game, but we still dont know if it was sold in stores. I know that at this point there are people on both sides on this one, and it wil stay as an offical release...although at this point we still dont know if it was released back in the day and sold to the public. I guess FOR ME offical releases dont include things such as games like gamma attack, Bingo II, Blockbuster World Chamipionship Cart II etc etc. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The world may never know on this one.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonic View Post
    If you're only considering games sold on retail shelves as being 'official releases' then you're excluding games only available through mail order (via catalogs, magazine ads, promotions, etc.). For example, VCS Crazy Climber was never available in stores - only through Atari's own in-house magazine. Does that make it any less an official release? Perhaps Bingo was released in a similar fashion, which might explain why there are so few around.
    That definition is too narrow. There have been several games released for modern consoles that were on-line or mail order retailer exclusives. The one I think is the best example is Daytona USA for the Netlink. That was only available by calling Sega Parts. It was nonetheless an official release. Of course, most of the Telegames batch of Jaguar games were pretty much mail order only (although copies were purchased and sold by a few other Atari vendors) and I don't know of any physical brick and mortar store that actually stocked them. It would also exclude games from the classic era that were mail order only as you mentioned. Is Chase the Chuckwagon an unofficial release because it was only available as a mail away premium? Seriously, you need to give this fight up. Bingo is official, end of story.

  8. #33
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    Heh, look at all the official GBA releases that popped up not sold in stores. I had to search like crazy for those. And Mountain Bike Rally/Speed Racer for SNES? WOW.

  9. #34
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    where does sonic adventure: limited edition for the dreamcast lie? it is listed as an official release, but it was never officially available for purchase. does the fact that it was available as a rental make the difference? to me, it seems that it being an incomplete version available only for rental or in store kiosks would put it more in the demo category.

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedEye View Post
    If someone were to come forward with a very authentic-appearing copy of Propellar Arena for the Dreamcast - hell, if we could somehow confirm it was authentically manufactured - would it go in the released section? It's entirely possible that the game was manufactured and then destroyed, or met some similar fate.
    Propeller Arena wasn't sent to press, but i do have an electronic copy of the artwork if anyone is interested.

    Half-Life for DC was sent to press, but destroyed. We should add that to the official released list. I personally own a copy of the stamped, sealed, complete disc. There are 11 other copies... have fun.

  11. #36
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    I count mail order games....they were SOLD to the public. To clarify. I personally would not count Half Life...it wasnt released to the public. Again, the DP guide is going to do what it feels right. I just see that any game that you were not able to buy in a different category.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by swlovinist View Post
    I count mail order games....they were SOLD to the public. To clarify. I personally would not count Half Life...it wasnt released to the public. Again, the DP guide is going to do what it feels right. I just see that any game that you were not able to buy in a different category.

    This makes sense to me. If a game was available for purchase in store or mail-order it's a "retail" release. If there was no way to buy it when it was released it's not. So to me something that was available as a rental only is not a "retail" release. Back to Bingo, I just don't get how something made by a major manufacturer has only turned up once. Those one only Atari 2600 games were made by tiny companies who probably only made 20-200 games to begin with. If there was a story about how Bingo was recalled and destroyed but a few got out or something that would make sense. A company like RCA wouldn't manufacture something in quantities of less than thousands. I did see Bingo on a list for one of those Studio II clones though so who knows.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by y-bot View Post
    This makes sense to me. If a game was available for purchase in store or mail-order it's a "retail" release. If there was no way to buy it when it was released it's not. So to me something that was available as a rental only is not a "retail" release. Back to Bingo, I just don't get how something made by a major manufacturer has only turned up once. Those one only Atari 2600 games were made by tiny companies who probably only made 20-200 games to begin with. If there was a story about how Bingo was recalled and destroyed but a few got out or something that would make sense. A company like RCA wouldn't manufacture something in quantities of less than thousands. I did see Bingo on a list for one of those Studio II clones though so who knows.

    y-bot
    At the end of a product life-cycle, RCA was known to release very small quantities of the final software titles. A perfect example of this is some of the release numbers on the last RCA CED videodiscs. The pressing numbers I have seen for some of them are miniscule (under 500 in some cases). Given that there are only a very limited number of RCA Studio II collectors and who knows how many original owners, I would not be surprised if RCA pressed very small quantities of this particular game.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    At the end of a product life-cycle, RCA was known to release very small quantities of the final software titles. A perfect example of this is some of the release numbers on the last RCA CED videodiscs. The pressing numbers I have seen for some of them are miniscule (under 500 in some cases). Given that there are only a very limited number of RCA Studio II collectors and who knows how many original owners, I would not be surprised if RCA pressed very small quantities of this particular game.
    How many of those low print run CEDs have turned up? I think that would be a good comparison. I know I have a few of the 1986 ones that are supposed to be rare. Wanna buy my collection?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProgrammingAce View Post
    Propeller Arena wasn't sent to press, but i do have an electronic copy of the artwork if anyone is interested.
    http://gamerhistory.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4804

  16. #41
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    I'm inclined to believe that's the proper explanation. End of life cycle, limited production run for an already unpopular and low-production system.

    Really, how much Studio II stuff is still floating around? Odds are a good chunk was tossed out by people who didn't care, or liquidated. Add that to a small production run, and it's a wonder any copy of complete Bingo exists.
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  17. #42
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    just reading this interesting thread and thought i should note a little about the space hulk.

    I found at a flea market in Eugene OR sometime in the Winter of 2003 or 2004 (can't recall). kevincure thought it was "just a little harder to find" than the jewel case space hulk, so I tossed it up on ebay.

    Brinn1 won it for like 23 bucks or something.
    and....
    he just recently sold it on ebay.

    THAT is the only Space Hulk long box out there, and as far as i'm concerned, it most likely is the only one.

    Springfield, Oregon at the time of the Playstation one, was home to one of the Sony Disc Manufacturing plants. Springfield is right next to Eugene (where said game was found). What i 'm thinking is possibly an employee or someone made up an extra disc and took a mock up box along with them to house the game and it some how ended up at the local flea market. Not sure though... it's just my theory on it now.

    I talked with a guy who used to work there and he told me employees had no special privileges for getting free games or anything like that, thus why i am speculating that there was an extra disc sitting around and someone just grabbed it and found one of those boxes at Sony and kept it. But as it is, being that they couldn't get free games, Eugene/Springfield really is a mecca for PS1 goodness.

  18. #43
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    Bit of a bump from the dead, but this thread was among those that inspired the ongoing Studio II thread over at AtariAge:

    http://atariage.com/forums/topic/209...ction-manager/

    ...and I wanted to post a few updates on what is currently known and/or reasoned about the US Bingo:

    1) It was programmed here in the US, by Andy Modla. He confirmed this, but did not know if it received a US release.

    2) The overseas version, as with most all of the other overseas versions of US games, is certainly identical to it's American counterpart as a ROM, yet not in terms of packaging. Foreign copies do not include the extra tokens and cards seen in the US copy at PC2K1, and the manual for at least one of the overseas Bingo releases makes no mention of any such extra materials.

    3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtZEsXrE3Z4 It was intended to be among the games for the unreleased Studio III tech that seems to have become the basis of the various overseas clones. Notice the color in the video.

    4) Gameplay of the US version was recallled by a previous poster as being little more than displaying Bingo numbers, which matches the gameplay footage of the foreign version above. Also, the US version likely had the same ability to play the Bingo tune in an example of some very early sound effects.

    5) IT WAS LIKELY NOT A RETAIL RELEASE, AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS SUCH. I feel that swvolinist is correct in his assertion that it should be removed from the lists of official US releases. Having been looking into this for some time now and having talked to several folks from back in the day, it seems that any US versions, or simply just a single US version, were part of a very small test-run that RCA would have produced at their Deptford, NJ locations but which never saw a full production run along with all of the other, confirmed US releases down at the plant in Swannanoa, NC where all of the systems and games were made. It was programmed, it was certainly intended for US release, a pre-production test run of very very few copies was almost certainly produced, but Bingo itself was never made in anything close to large numbers and never actually saw a US retail release for whatever reasons. As such, it should not be considered part of a full US set as nobody would have had a chance to actually purchase it during the retail lifespan of the Studio II.

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