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Thread: Goal Achieved: Completed PS2 RPG Collection 163 games (Pic Alert)

  1. #51
    Cherry (Level 1) jedimind7's Avatar
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    Congrats on the collection. Very impressive.

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    Are these US releases only? You are missing the remakes of Phantasy Star 1 and 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roushimsx View Post
    You're taking what I said out of context and limiting your view to assuming that I meant that the leveling up / experience points / stats are the sole point instead of one of the main points. World Tour Mode is a nice bonus feature with RPG elements, though Ehrgeiz and Tobal no 2 had dungeon crawler bonus features as well... would you call those RPGs? Hell to the no. The mode itself might be RPGish, but it's not like it's the main game. It's like calling Knights of the Old Republic a gambling game, Kingdom Hearts an on rails shooter, or Mario & Luigi's Superstar Saga a puzzle game based solely on the minigames included.



    All Metroid and Zelda games (with the exception of the second!) are action adventure titles. It's not because of the viewpoint but because of the structure AND the inclusion of a leveling system. You know, like Ys III, Faxanadu or Symphony of the Night.

    If you think that's silly, imagine how pen and paper players feel about computer RPGs (where there's not always a lot in the way of role playing) or how computer RPG fans feel about console RPGs (which are often extremely linear games with leveling mechanics...a far cry from any actual "role playing"). The only real constants (that I can think of, anyway) have been the leveling and the questing (or missions). As long as you have those two, then you've at least got some basis for calling a game an RPG. The definition of RPG isn't broad enough to cover all of the games in the collection but it's specific enough to cover games that aren't included

    Hell, if there was a bit more consistency then it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Include From Software's first person rpgs but not Ion Storm Austin's? Include Future Tactics but not Ring of Red? No Grand Theft Auto San Andreas in the collection? Heroes of Might and Magic but no Daisenryaku VII Exceed? Why isn't Puzzle Quest included? With the inclusion of Everquest Online Adventures, you're pretty much stuck with requiring Final Fantasy XI, so you can't really call the collection complete without those, too.

    I do agree that it helps to actually play games to determine if they're RPGs or not. It's quite possible that a reviewer or a friend will just label a game (like Ocarina of Time!) an RPG and you'll never know the better until you play it and realize that while it might be a great action adventure, but it's not quite an RPG. No amount of research on a title beats firing the fucker up and sitting down with it for a while.
    Genre categories themselves are nothing more than measured based on how a game within the category relates to the others. I, personally, find calling Symphony of the Night an RPG absurd because it's plainly obvious that saying "If you liked Super Metroid you'll love Symphony" makes a hell of a lot more sense than saying "If you liked Chrono Trigger you'll love Symphony."

    A really good example is Smash Bros. It's...kind of a fighting game...I suppose. But you'd have to be nuts to tell someone "If you like Street Fighter you'll like Smash." Hence something like Smash essentially bred a new genre or possibly subgenre within the parent umbrella of "fighting game."

    I remember a philosophical question that relates to this. Imagine a heap of straw. Now remove one piece of straw. Is it still a heap? Now remove another piece. Is it still a heap? Eventually you'll get down to just one piece remaining. Is that one piece of straw a heap? Most people would say no. So that means one of two things. Either a single piece of straw really is a heap or there's one point where the cutoff happens. Something like ten pieces is a heap but take one more away and it's no longer a heap. But of course even that sounds crazy. It's the vagueness of "heap" that gets you there. Same with any genre.

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    Well done, that's an impressive collection indeed. Do you collect PS2 games with emphasis, and happen to have a lot of RPGs as a side effect, or do you just collect the RPGs?

    Either way, what's your next PS2 goal?
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    Why do these threads always degenerate into a disscussion of genre definitions. Whether or not you consider Draken an RPG or not it's still an impressive collection.

    And congrats Lendelin that's just a really nice horde of games. I especially liked your library analogy. It's all the reasons I collect games, but I'd never thought of it quite like that before. Also kind of funny to open the thread and see my name plastered over the first post.

    Also while I love your definative PS2 list, this thread is actually a lot more helpful to me with all the pictures. I really haven't kept up with the PS2, I guess it just doesn't have the same magic as classic stlye RPGs. Probably why DQ8 is also my favorite PS2 game. But as I was saying, I can see you your pictures then easily spot the games when I hit EB or whatever. I don't intend to collect every PS2 RPG... but I can't pass up cheap RPGs when I find them and you know these things just sort of fall into place. But it's scary to think I have 60 something already, and while it seems like a sizable chunk it's only half the battle.
    Last edited by Daria; 02-23-2008 at 12:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanMurf View Post
    No I meant to remind you not to be a DICK about things. If the guy collects games and has reached his goal he doesn't need someone like you to tell him its not impressive. Again nice collection lendelin
    Relax, kid. My response to your post was meant in good humor. It apparently went over your head.

    Lendelin: Play Nocturne immediately. Open that sucker up and play it.




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    Just curious. Do you every consider getting FFXI & the expansion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger View Post
    Genre categories themselves are nothing more than measured based on how a game within the category relates to the others. I, personally, find calling Symphony of the Night an RPG absurd because it's plainly obvious that saying "If you liked Super Metroid you'll love Symphony" makes a hell of a lot more sense than saying "If you liked Chrono Trigger you'll love Symphony."
    Chrono Trigger, Symphony of the Night, Wizardry 8, Pokemon, Baten Kaitos, Planescape Torment, World of Warcraft, Fallout, and Ys are all completely different videogame RPGs, but they're all videogame RPGs all the same. Liking one doesn't mean you'll like any of the others because they're all done in radically different styles and create neat little subgenres. Super Smash Brothers is a fighting game, but it is pretty different from Street Fighter and more along the lines of Power Stone 2, another fighting game that I don't really dig despite loving more traditional stuff like King of Fighters 98 and more party stuff like Poitter's Point 2.

    It's very rare that someone actually likes an entire main genre worth of stuff; Most people prefer their separate subgenres, but games in the RPG umbrella still share the common threads of stats/levels and quests/missions. After that then it's fair game to debate whether or not it falls under the main RPG umbrella or if it's one of those silly genre benders that straddles multiple main genres equally welll (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Daria View Post
    Why do these threads always degenerate into a disscussion of genre definitions. Whether or not you consider Draken an RPG or not it's still an impressive collection.
    Funny, I said much the same thing when I started a post with, "Oh! Not to detract from the hotness of the collection...". Of course it's an impressive collection, but there's not much in the way of consistency throughout it and the thread title being fairly misleading when one of the lines in the OP is "...and all of the FF XI MMO RPGs I'm just not interested in". The reason why there's always a debate is because no one ever bothers to try to follow any sort of standard other than, "Turn based combat or Fantasy setting? It's an RPG!", which I think is completely the wrong way to go about it.

    Really, I'm mostly curious about:
    Quote Originally Posted by roushimsx View Post
    Include From Software's first person rpgs but not Ion Storm Austin's? Include Future Tactics but not Ring of Red? No Grand Theft Auto San Andreas in the collection? Heroes of Might and Magic but no Daisenryaku VII Exceed? Why isn't Puzzle Quest included? With the inclusion of Everquest Online Adventures, you're pretty much stuck with requiring Final Fantasy XI, so you can't really call the collection complete without those, too.
    You can paint as broad of a definition as you want, but you should at least be able to define why it is you consider game X whatever and game Y whatever else.

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    Awesome collection and thanks for posting the pictures.
    Chronogamer. Every game. Chronologically.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roushimsx View Post
    but there's not much in the way of consistency throughout it and the thread title being fairly misleading when one of the lines in the OP is "...and all of the FF XI MMO RPGs I'm just not interested in". The reason why there's always a debate is because no one ever bothers to try to follow any sort of standard other than, "Turn based combat or Fantasy setting? It's an RPG!", which I think is completely the wrong way to go about it.
    The other thread is a chronicle of "PS2 RPGs" this is a bragging rights thread. When you're posting your personal collecting goals there's no right or wrong way to decide what should or shouldn't be included.

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    man thats an awsome collection mine is not that big yet but i am an rpg fan and just starting on the serious collecting side of things

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    Lendelin: Nice collection. I'm right behind you sorta, only needing 12 more myself. I think more impressive is your complete strategy guides. That must have been a pain in the ass to track down some of the more obscure guides such as Evergrace, Eternal Ring and Forever Kingdom.

    BTW, check your other thread on PS2 RPGs. You never responded to my question. I think you are short one game on the list - Swashbuckers - Blue vs. Grey.

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    For not being your native language I think you do alright Much better than people with English as a native language.

    As for the digression of the what is an rpg and what isn't. That's why I don't even care for the whole "genre" ideas. Games should be described with adjectives, like a brief summary. For example "Sci Fi Turn Based RPG" "Arcade Action Shooter" etc.

    This thread makes me cry inside due to all the RPG's I have that I've never played/and or beat. From the Ultimas to the Bard's Tales to even the more modern PS3/360 titles. So many hours of games, so little real life time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roushimsx View Post
    It's very rare that someone actually likes an entire main genre worth of stuff; Most people prefer their separate subgenres, but games in the RPG umbrella still share the common threads of stats/levels and quests/missions. After that then it's fair game to debate whether or not it falls under the main RPG umbrella or if it's one of those silly genre benders that straddles multiple main genres equally welll (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.!).

    Of course it's an impressive collection, but there's not much in the way of consistency throughout it and the thread title being fairly misleading when one of the lines in the OP is "...and all of the FF XI MMO RPGs I'm just not interested in". The reason why there's always a debate is because no one ever bothers to try to follow any sort of standard other than, "Turn based combat or Fantasy setting? It's an RPG!", which I think is completely the wrong way to go about it.


    You can paint as broad of a definition as you want, but you should at least be able to define why it is you consider game X whatever and game Y whatever else.
    roushimsx and TonyTheTiger, you are both right! This is not a cheap ‘let’s all hug’-strategy in order to avoid a clash of opinions, but you are both right to point to the fuzziness of genres and how hard it is to define them. One of the hardest genres to define are RPGs.

    roushimsx, I agree that there is a lack of consistency in the PS2 RPG list – and therefore in my personal collection because I followed closely the list.

    The lack of consistency is intentional because there was no better alternative. If we could agree on a definition with standards for a RPG we would certainly achieve consistency. Basically I sacrificed consistency on the altar of inclusion of borderline cases.

    The reasons are twofold.

    First, it would take a long time to agree on a definition, and once agreed we’d have problems with newly released games which stretch the genre again and change the need for a definition. (Deus Ex, Mass Effect) The time factor shouldn’t be underestimated; so far we still don’t have a useable and generally agreed definition after years of discussion.

    Second, no matter how we define a RPG, no matter if we choose a minimal definition or an extensive content definition, we’ll always end up with questionable cases. We’ll always end up with games we want to include but fall outside of the definition, and vice versa.

    Let’s say we define a RPG as a game which has to fulfill all of the following essential technical gameplay standards, ( which were proposed and discussed already years ago and I remember off the hat because I proposed and discussed some of them):

    1) Some kind of statistics which define and describe certain attributes or skills of game characters.
    2) The famous leveling-up, that means some kind of method to influence (increase) these statistics for characters.
    3) There must be a menu for combat, just broadly a menu-driven combat system.

    There are other standards proposed which may or may not be included as necessary conditions such as complex storylines, the latter is very weak one and shouldn’t be included imo.

    You’ll always end up with cases which will raise eyebrows. Secret of Mana out, Alundra out, Popful Mail out. They fulfill two standards, but not a third one. Then you’ll always end up with cases which fulfill 1) and 2), but are just halfway there in the third standard category. Then you’ll end up with maybes like Disgaea and FF Tactics (Menu driven combat - yes, but still grid placement influences the battle; is it just a strategy game or a RPG?))

    The point is, you’ll gain more consistency without any doubt when you have clearly defined standards.

    But even with stricter standards there are always cases in which the feeling takes over – just enough gameplay elements for a category, or they fall just short to fulfill a category.

    You’ll always end up with certain gameplay elements of another genre (see the above FF Tactics with strategy elements, replaceable with action elements and elements from many other genres). That’s why we have the genre combinations action/RPG, strategy RGP, and so many others.

    In the last ten years we have the development tendency towards the hybrid game. I like it. Even in sports games we have now elements of statistical skill attributes which were once used only in RPGs. The result are the above mentioned genre benders which makes it even more difficult to agree on clearly defined RPG standards. It is more a matter of “feeling” even in the case of applied RPG-standards if certain RPG elements are essential gameplay elements or just used to color a game with or give it a mood of a RPG. In some posts of the original thread I discussed some of those cases.

    The very simple reason I avoided a RPG definition for the list (AND my collection) is its recommendation character. It was designed to be as inclusionary as possible and not as the ‘ultimate’ RPG list. In the end everyone can add or remove titles for his personal list. However, I admit that the term "complete" is misleading because ther is no such thing.

    The titles you address are indeed questionable for a strict RPG list, and there is an unavoidable lack of consistency. Facing big hurdles of defining standards, another option is simply to put ten or more of these titles in the borderline category. (Nine of them are currently in there) But then we’ll loose again the leeway recommendation character of the list.

    It is certainly helpful to have played as many games as possible. But let’s say I played half of them, I’d be still dependent on recommendation of gamers for the games I have played and have not played, and still dependent on reviews to make decisions of inclusions or exclusions. We’d have anyway a hard time to find someone who has played 50% or 75% of the titles.

    All I could do was being open-minded, tried to be fair, listen to the posters, and look up reviews for specific gameplay elements if they fit broadly RPG “expectations” if posters proposed a borderline case. (I never looked up just the genre label these games got in reviews)

    I still wouldn’t have a prob putting the Harvest Moons, River King, Graffiti Kingdom and Magic Pengel and others in the borderline category, but I think that’s not so important.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the content bias if we try to regard borderline cases as RPGs. If we see a guy in strange clothes with a big sword in front of a medieval castle, we certainly have an easier time to accept it as a RPG all other things being equal. Probably we'd have some doubts even about Dragon Quest VIII with the same gameplay elements but played with machine guns and nuclear knives, with scruffy looking gangsters, and placed in a dark chaotic world in 3020.

    MMO RPGs are in the list but as an add-on after the borderline cases. I think it is up to everyone to have them in their own RPG collection or not.

    This was a long post, that’s why I tried to avoid such a discussion in the RPG list- thread. A discussion with just a couple of posters about a definition of a RPG would be long, time-consuming, and sprinkled with long posts like mine from everyone.
    Last edited by lendelin; 02-23-2008 at 10:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daria View Post
    And congrats Lendelin that's just a really nice horde of games. I especially liked your library analogy. It's all the reasons I collect games, but I'd never thought of it quite like that before. Also kind of funny to open the thread and see my name plastered over the first post.

    Also while I love your definative PS2 list, this thread is actually a lot more helpful to me with all the pictures. I really haven't kept up with the PS2, I guess it just doesn't have the same magic as classic stlye RPGs. Probably why DQ8 is also my favorite PS2 game. But as I was saying, I can see you your pictures then easily spot the games when I hit EB or whatever. I don't intend to collect every PS2 RPG... but I can't pass up cheap RPGs when I find them and you know these things just sort of fall into place. But it's scary to think I have 60 something already, and while it seems like a sizable chunk it's only half the battle.
    I mentioned you because I remember very well your pictured Zelda collection, Dragon Quest collection, and of course the PS1 RPG collection. Just great to look at stuff llike that.

    If you have already 60 of the games, I GUARANTEE you that you'll get the remaining games within the next three years. Your fascination with RPGs will take over. Let's face it, you can't resist to have ALL the RPGs for the PS1 and PS2.

    I don't know if you have it already, but get the .hack box set from GS/EBgames soon. This might go up in price soon. Got not a lot of publicity, and how many of them were produced for a niche game like this and then exclusively distributed by one retailer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScourDX View Post
    Just curious. Do you every consider getting FFXI & the expansion?
    That's a very low priority...and that means probabaly never.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volcanon View Post
    Are these US releases only? You are missing the remakes of Phantasy Star 1 and 2.
    Only US releases. I put the link to the DP thread with the game list in the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcks007 View Post
    lendelin, Chaos Wars is another rpg coming out hopefully in march.

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/data/934027.html
    Geez, that makes four! maybe it was pre-mature to post the pics. Will it never stop?

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    Personally, I think it's a good thing we have these crossbred games that borrow from multiple genres. Without these games straggling the line we'd have a pretty boring selection. I just use the heap example as a basis for everything. You have a game with elements X, Y, and Z. You define it as an RPG. Imagine removing element X. Do you still consider it an RPG? If so that element is negligible. If you don't then somehow that element is crucial to the genre. Some people are absolutist about it. For example, "Experience points are needed to make a game an RPG. Without experience point growth it is no longer an RPG." Other people are vagueists. They find that removing experience points from something like Final Fantasy doesn't automatically kick it out of the RPG genre. This is just a hypothetical but the absolutist/vagueist thing will never be resolved. Two competing theories. But no point in dragging this on any longer. Regardless, the collection is impressive. And Justice League Heroes, RPG or Beat-em-up, is too good to not own no matter what collection you're aiming for.
    Last edited by TonyTheTiger; 02-24-2008 at 12:43 AM.

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    Very nice! I like seeing specific collection's because they just seem much more personal and meaningful. And I can relate to the difficulty in determining what to include or not. I collect shooters which one would normally think of as top down or side scrolling. But I couldn't in all good conscience exclude fixed point shooters like Space Invaders or 3rd person shooters like Panorama Cotton. So I understand the dilemma in determining how broadly or narrowly a genre could be defined.
    I don't play RPG's myself, but I buy them because my son likes them. I'd happily play anything like Baldurs Gate though!

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    nice. i have a full ps1 rpg set, i do somehow prefer the ps1 over ps2 rpgs, but there are a lot of great ps2 rpgs ive yet to add to my collection... id say i have about 30-40 ps2 rpgs right now, and only about 20 more to go that i care about.

    im going for a full rpg collection of ps1, snes and gba games. to me, all those feel the same on some strange level. im almost done w/ gba, ps1 is done, and snes has a lot to go, but i have all the expensive ones.

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    Nice collection! I didn't read the entire thread though after the trouble started

    My PS2 RPG collection is nm-mint and 99% purchased new; is pretty close to yours and I hope to finish sometime soon. Some of your games I purchased for other systems instead. I had the same idea about them becoming way to expensive to complete years from now as I also don't have the financial resources to finish my ps1 collection while still collecting for the saturn. I need to finish up the dot hack's as well.

    I don't really collect variants except for LE versions of games. I'm not interested in digimon/marvel/etc but I think I've done well so far ^__^ I need to really clean and resetup my game room so I can take pictures worth taking.

    If you want to take a look you can check it out here.

    http://users.ign.com/collection/faendryltunare

    cheers ~ ~

    p.s. the Stella Deus is a flip cover. I also didn't notice Radiata Stories but I probably missed it with my tired eyes. .. edit... nm I found it XD
    Last edited by jupitersj; 02-25-2008 at 11:33 AM.

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    Awesome, thats a really nice collection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lendelin View Post
    I don't know if you have it already, but get the .hack box set from GS/EBgames soon. This might go up in price soon. Got not a lot of publicity, and how many of them were produced for a niche game like this and then exclusively distributed by one retailer?
    Is this a boxset for the games or just anime? I couldn't find it on their website and I never got into the anime series so I don't know >.>

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