Prediction: The Xbox won't age well as a console.

[Nionel]

This thread has been a very interesting read, I've been between the Cube and the Xbox for my primary console for last gen games, and I can say that this thread has helped me decide that I'll be focusing more on Xbox, even with it's lack of RPGs, Xbox has some good titles that the GC never got.

[demen999]

I will have to disagree. I had tons o fun on the xbox. Live was the shite, and fun as all hell. I am on the border of hating the PS2 out of all the last gen systems. The games were all the same (Yes GTA esp.), and most were crappy IMHO TIll this day, I have like 20 something PS2 games, and I didn't finish one! I loved the GC, well I'm sort of a nintendo fan
I hated the xbox at first, then it grew on me bigtime. So yeah...

[Richter Belmount]

When we compare the Xbox , I just don't think its a console that is as appealing as the PS2 or Gamecube. PS2 and Gamecube had most of last gens best games and we have to thank the support of the developers for that creating that library , 2 libraries full of mainstream and niche hits. In my book most developers had avoided the Xbox console , they saw it as a risk to invest in which makes the library smaller or have a bigger crap ratio. Thats what I see wrong with its library , however the other complaints I had were the duke controller and the seemingly washed out graphics the Xbox outputted.

[Rob2600]

I agree with Boatofcar. Will the Xbox be forgotten by video game enthusiasts like us? No, of course not.


However, I think ten years from now, GameCube games will be more sought after than Xbox games. The average John and Jane Doe teenagers and twenty-somethings who are interested in getting into classic gaming will be searching flea markets, Goodwill stores, and the internet for games like:

Baten Kaitos
Eternal Darkness
F-Zero GX
Killer 7
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Paper Mario
Pikmin
Resident Evil 4
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Star Fox Adventures
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Monkey Ball
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Viewtiful Joe
Wave Race: Blue Storm

...all of which are on the GameCube.


Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.


It's like how in the late 1990s, many people put down the N64 for being stupid and "kiddie," but now, people are looking for N64 games all the time. There's something about those types of games that magically strikes a chord with people ten years later.

[The 1 2 P]

When we compare the Xbox , I just don't think its a console that is as appealing as the PS2 or Gamecube. PS2 and Gamecube had most of last gens best games and we have to thank the support of the developers for that creating that library

Your perception is completely skewered if you think the Gamecube had more appealing games than the Xbox. For starters, Gamecube only had 648 games compared to the Xbox's 950. I'll let you do the math on that one. As for the famous first party software on the cube, like all of Nintendo's other systems, the first party games on GC are really good. But the number of good first party games on the GC is not even a quarter of all the great games on the Xbox(I'm counting both first and third party here). And the Gamecube's first party and third party good games aren't even half of the Xbox's good games.

2 libraries full of mainstream and niche hits.

So the Gamecube got all the mainstream titles like Grand Theft Auto 3, GTA: Vice City, GTA: San Andreas, Burnout 3 and Revenge, Max Payne 1+2, Mortal Kombat Armagedden, Star Wars: Battlefront 1+2, Star Wars: Revenge of The Sith, Silent Hill 2+4 and hundreds more that I'm not going to name? Funny how I don't remember the Gamecube getting any of those mainstream titles. But I know which systems did: the Xbox and PS2.

In my book most developers avoided the Xbox console, they saw it as a risk to invest in which makes the library smaller or have a bigger crap ratio. Thats what I see wrong with its library

So the reason the Xbox got so many great console exclusives such as Star Wars: Kotor, Farcry Instincts, Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Otogi, Ninja Gaiden, Chronicles of Riddick, Metal Slug 3 and several more was because developers didn't want to make games for it? Wrong again.

however the other complaints I had were the duke controller and the seemingly washed out graphics the Xbox outputted.

Don't like the Duke? Get a controller "s"(shame I actually had to point that one out). And the Xbox had the best graphics of the last gen, which means they were better than the Gamecube's. You are of course entitled to your opinion but thats the weakest argument anyone has ever made in the cube's defense. Which leads us to.....

However, I think ten years from now, GameCube games will be more sought after than Xbox games. The average John and Jane Doe teenagers and twenty-somethings who are interested in getting into classic gaming will be searching flea markets, Goodwill stores, and the internet for games like:

Baten Kaitos
Eternal Darkness
F-Zero GX
Killer 7
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Paper Mario
Pikmin
Resident Evil 4
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Star Fox Adventures
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Monkey Ball
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Viewtiful Joe
Wave Race: Blue Storm

...all of which are on the GameCube.

Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise. As for your list, I like it. But heres one of my own:

Halo
Halo 2
Farcry Instincts
Half-Life 2
Otogi
Star Wars: Jedi Knight Jedi Academy
Star Wars: Kotor
Star Wars: Kotor 2
Fable
Elderscrolls 3 Morrowind
Doom 3
Ninja Gaiden Black
Metal SLug 3
Dead or Alive 3
Chronicles of Riddick
Deus Ex 2
Unreal Championship 2
Star Wars: Republic Commando

.......all of which are NOT on the Gamecube, but are available on the Xbox. It also was really hard to narrow that list down to just 18 titles

Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.

If you think that ten years from now people aren't going to want to play the greatest movie to game translation(that would be Riddick) in video game history--you are obviously off your rocker.

It's like how in the late 1990s, many people put down the N64 for being stupid and "kiddie," but now, people are looking for N64 games all the time. There's something about those types of games that magically strikes a chord with people ten years later.

I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era. The difference is that each of those systems had more games and much better games. The N64 had some great games, but the number of good games pales in comparison to the other systems, especially the PS1.

[otoko]

I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era.

One of these is not like the the other.

Dreamcast was the first of the PS2, xbox, GCN gen, not part of the PS1, N64, Saturn gen.

I don't know, it seems a large percentage of my fellow gamers who do not partake in classic collecting own or owned a xbox (or more currently a 360). I do own all four of that gen and I think the xbox might be remembered more because it basically was between it and the PS2 during that generation.

I love my gamecube, but it was not a popular consumer system.
Dreamcast died prematurly.
PS2 has a large and great library but no particular "Stand out titles" or that era seems to compete with halo.
Xbox had halo.

heh.

[Richter Belmount]

Your perception is completely skewered if you think the Gamecube had more appealing games than the Xbox

You ever thought maybe I didn't like the games on Xbox , did that cross your mind so my perception is skewered cause (Shock) I have a different opinion!??

1.Appeal : I don't think you understand what I meant by the word appeal , Im using that word to say that the games that were on Gamecube and Playstation 2 were MUCH MORE INTERESTING than the games that were on Xbox. In my personal opinion the Japanese developers dominated last generation and pumped out the most and some of the best games. American and Western developers are reaching their peak this generation though last generation seems rather bleh and mundane to me.

2. Mainstream Games: I recall saying Ps2 no? Plus most of the games 1st appeared on Playstation 2 I didn't really need a port of Gta 3 a game that I already bought. Heck I could have a Ps2 and a Gamecube than I would still have a majority of the releases so no need for an Xbox.

3. Ports:The only actual exclusive on that list is Otogi since there are numerous ports of those games on different systems already, even Ninja Gaiden , Fable , Jade Empire , Kotr , Kotr 2 and Halo 2 . Doesn't make me want to go back to my Xbox considering I have other numerous and possibly better places to play some of those games. Though I have a certain affinity of the Snes version of Doom over the PC version. My point is the Xbox was good for ports but there are better ports than the ports on Xbox now in this day and age.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/ch...ick/index.html in stores now!

4. Graphics: yes the Xbox had processing power , doesn't mean much to me if its not aesthetically pleasing. I recall the mundane and dreary colored and washed out Splinter Cell. Graphics in a game should be consistent , appealing not dark and muddy or washed out. Something the Xbox couldn't pull off with a regular output yet when it comes to that Xbox is outdone by a Turbo Grafx's sharp color and detail.

5. Cult hits:As for cult hits I think once I step into 1 cult hit for Xbox , I could find 5 more on Playstation 2 for every cult hit that was on Xbox.

Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise.

How are you going to call him out without seeming hypocritical?

[josekortez]

All hail the 1 2 P for a well-thought out response on that last one.

However, I still doubt that lack of information about the Xbox is what will keep it from gaining the revered status as shown by some of the responses here. I think people seem to believe that the Xbox was only good for ports, which is one of its strengths since I can't think of a multi-platform game that wasn't better on the Xbox than it was on the PS2 or GameCube.

And when it becomes tough to find GameCube memory cards in the wild, the Xbox will still be there ready to play with a seemingly limitless default hard drive for saves (I own hundreds of original Xbox games that I have saves for and haven't seen the bottom of the thing yet, even with several custom soundtracks), assuming you didn't get one with a Thompson drive.

[Gentlegamer]

Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.

Dude, Crimson Skies rulez! I love that game!

[chrisbid]

it will end up like the ps1 and the sega genesis, it wont have the large collector base of a nintendo system, so for manufacturer agnostics like many people on DP, it will be fun and relatively inexpensive to collect for

[Rob2600]

Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise.

You're right, I can't predict the future, but that's what this thread is all about, so I'm just going along with it.

You missed my point. I'm not bashing the Xbox or blindly defending the GameCube. I'm just pointing out how one art/design philosophy has a wider, longer-lasting appeal than the other.

Many of the Xbox games you listed appeal to the video game enthusiast. They're dark, gritty, "mature," and complex. That's fine. They're well-produced games, but they're missing the simple charm and mass appeal that attracts non-enthusiasts. Looking through a box full of old games ten years from now, average people will gloss over Splinter Cell and Forza racing, but they'll recognize Super Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Metroid. And even if they don't recognize games like Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Killer 7, Super Monkey Ball, or Viewtiful Joe, the cover artwork is stylized and sticks out enough in a sea of dark, gritty, generic CGI that people will at least stop and look at their back covers.

Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%. Ten years from now, how many average people are going to seek out Halo 2 or Unreal Championship 2 when they could be playing Halo 9 or Unreal 15?

That means almost half of the top-notch Xbox games you listed will be obsolete and uninteresting a decade from now...to the average person. Again, not that they're bad games. They're perfectly fine games, but Joe Schmoe won't care about what he considers to be old, generic army shooting game #27 or old, generic driving game #39.

How many of you go back to the first Call of Duty or the first Grand Theft Auto now that the latest versions are out? It just doesn't happen...yet people still seek out and play Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and the old Super Mario games. That's the difference between dark, gritty, complex games vs. games that have mass appeal.

If you think that ten years from now people aren't going to want to play the greatest movie to game translation (that would be Riddick) in video game history--you are obviously off your rocker.

I thought that was Goldeneye 007.

And ten years from now, people won't even know what Riddick is.

I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era.

Once again, I'm not talking about enthusiasts like you or anyone else on DP. Enthusiasts collect for many different, if not all, game consoles. We are not the average Joe Schmoe video gaming public.

I'm talking about a twenty year old who, ten years from now, will sift through a box of old video games at a flea market. He or she will probably pass by all the seemingly similar-looking army games and driving games, but will stop at the Mario or Zelda game and say, "Yes, cool!"...just like Joe Schmoe frat boys do today when they walk into a store like Digital Press in NJ.

Why do you think Joe charges so much for a common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

[Chadt74]

Good call on Goldeneye 007! I have yet to play Riddick, but it will be tough to beat Goldeneye.

[Bojay1997]

You ever thought maybe I didn't like the games on Xbox , did that cross your mind so my perception is skewered cause (Shock) I have a different opinion!??

1.Appeal : I don't think you understand what I meant by the word appeal , Im using that word to say that the games that were on Gamecube and Playstation 2 were MUCH MORE INTERESTING than the games that were on Xbox. In my personal opinion the Japanese developers dominated last generation and pumped out the most and some of the best games. American and Western developers are reaching their peak this generation though last generation seems rather bleh and mundane to me.

2. Mainstream Games: I recall saying Ps2 no? Plus most of the games 1st appeared on Playstation 2 I didn't really need a port of Gta 3 a game that I already bought. Heck I could have a Ps2 and a Gamecube than I would still have a majority of the releases so no need for an Xbox.

3. Ports:The only actual exclusive on that list is Otogi since there are numerous ports of those games on different systems already, even Ninja Gaiden , Fable , Jade Empire , Kotr , Kotr 2 and Halo 2 . Doesn't make me want to go back to my Xbox considering I have other numerous and possibly better places to play some of those games. Though I have a certain affinity of the Snes version of Doom over the PC version. My point is the Xbox was good for ports but there are better ports than the ports on Xbox now in this day and age.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/ch...ick/index.html in stores now!

4. Graphics: yes the Xbox had processing power , doesn't mean much to me if its not aesthetically pleasing. I recall the mundane and dreary colored and washed out Splinter Cell. Graphics in a game should be consistent , appealing not dark and muddy or washed out. Something the Xbox couldn't pull off with a regular output yet when it comes to that Xbox is outdone by a Turbo Grafx's sharp color and detail.

5. Cult hits:As for cult hits I think once I step into 1 cult hit for Xbox , I could find 5 more on Playstation 2 for every cult hit that was on Xbox.



How are you going to call him out without seeming hypocritical?

A couple of points here. There is absolutely no way that the Gamecube is going to be a heavily desired or collected system down the road. Why? Simply because virtually every single first party game released for it is being ported or given a slightly improved sequel on the Wii. Why would anyone seek out inferior versions of the same games? It's the same reason that many people don't collect the Dreamcast. Almost everything that was unique and special about its library is now appearing on other systems in a better version.

I think the PS2 just isn't going to age well from a mainstream playability standpoint in much the same way the Playstation hasn't, although there are quite a few artistic games that will keep the PS2 in the hands of collectors many years down the road. Having said that, I think there are tons of Xbox exclusive games that are artistic as well and have lasting appeal.

Claiming that ports of some Xbox games are available for the PC is absurd. With the speed at which PC specs change and the spectre of OS incompatibility, very few people are going to be collecting PC ports, even if they have slight enhancements over the Xbox versions. Heck, have you tried to collect PC games that are even 8 years old at this point? Anything pre-XP is hard to run without a lot of work.

I'm not sure what's wrong with your Xbox or TV, but there is nothing muddy or washed out in the graphics for Xbox games. In fact, if you do frame comparisons of 99% of the multi-platform games released in the last five years, I guarantee the Xbox version will have the best graphics and color palette of the two or three versions. If you still are having problems, you may want to use the video menu in most Xbox games and make some adjustments to optimize the appearance of games on your TV.

All three systems from last generation have their merits and I will concede that the PS2 will probably be the most collected simply because of the volume of obscure titles, but I expect the Xbox won't be far behind, particularly if the trend continues in this generation where almost none of the Xbox exclusives are being ported or sequeled.

[CosmicMonkey]

I thought that was Goldeneye 007.

Rob wins the thread.

At least the Xbox will be remembered for Xbox Media Center. Surely the greatest collaborative homebrew achievement ever, and it's now available for OS X/Apple TV, Windows and Linux, along with other offshoots like Boxee.

[ProgrammingAce]

Super Mario Brothers 3 was multiplatform, shame that rules it out as a good NES game then...

[j_factor]

Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%. Ten years from now, how many average people are going to seek out Halo 2 or Unreal Championship 2 when they could be playing Halo 9 or Unreal 15?

That means almost half of the top-notch Xbox games you listed will be obsolete and uninteresting a decade from now...to the average person. Again, not that they're bad games. They're perfectly fine games, but Joe Schmoe won't care about what he considers to be old, generic army shooting game #27 or old, generic driving game #39.

How many of you go back to the first Call of Duty or the first Grand Theft Auto now that the latest versions are out? It just doesn't happen...yet people still seek out and play Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and the old Super Mario games. That's the difference between dark, gritty, complex games vs. games that have mass appeal.

You actually have a good point here, but it applies to Gamecube too. Nintendo "updates" their games with the best of them. Pikmin, Mario Power Tennis, and Metroid Prime are going to be re-released for Wii, and RE4 is already out for it (obviously). Smash Bros. Melee will be dropped like a bad habit when the fourth Smash game comes out, if it isn't already (the original on N64 isn't exactly in high demand these days).

Xbox also has plenty of games that aren't going to be obsolete anytime soon. He just didn't make that kind of a list. Consider:

Voodoo Vince
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Tron 2.0: Killer App
Psychonauts
Stubbs the Zombie in Rebel Without A Pulse
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Indigo Prophecy
Kung Fu Chaos
Breakdown
Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon
Still Life
Toejam & Earl III
Sid Meier's Pirates!
etc.

[Richter Belmount]

Super Mario Brothers 3 was multiplatform, shame that rules it out as a good NES game then...

Sic semper tyrannis!!

[Rob2600]

the original (Super Smash Bros.) on N64 isn't exactly in high demand these days

Then why are people paying an average of $19 for loose Super Smash Bros. N64 cartridges on eBay?

By comparison, the Xbox games you listed - as fantastic as they may be - are selling for below $15 on average.


Again, why do you think Joe charges so much at the DP store in NJ for a loose common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

When regular Joe Schmoe frat boys walk into the Digital Press store, what old games do they look for? Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath? Kung Fu Chaos? Or Super Mario Bros., Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, and The Legend of Zelda?


There seems to be two sides to this topic:

1. Among us DP members/video game enthusiasts, the answer is simple - the Xbox will not be forgotten. Many of us will collect Xbox games for years to come.

2. Among average video game players (not enthusiasts like us), I just can't see them going out of their way several years from now to track down a copy of Toejam and Earl III or Voodoo Vince. They just aren't considered classics like the Super Mario or Zelda games. Again, ask Joe which old titles non-enthusiasts come into the store to buy. His answer won't be Tron 2.0.


It just depends on whether you take an enthusiast gamer's perspective or a big picture/average consumer perspective.


EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games. I can't imagine Joe Schmoe walking into GameStop, seeing Xbox games on clearance, and thinking, "Wow, I should stock up on all of these obscure games I've never heard of." But again, I'm looking at it from an average consumer perspective, not an enthusiast perspective.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games.

might as well be phasing out gc games. for over a year now, gc games at every local gs have been relegated to a single metal rack glommed onto the wii section as an afterthought (yet the gc game prices are still ridiculously high).

as far as the argument goes, i think you've got a good theory rob, but you've gotta remember 90% of the used games market is nostalgia. who's to say that halo and kotor won't be remembered by the adults of tomorrow with the same nostalgic charm that we view super mario and final fantasy with? xbox games aren't really old enough yet for a proper comparison.

give em ten years.

[Bojay1997]

Then why are people paying an average of $19 for loose Super Smash Bros. N64 cartridges on eBay?

By comparison, the Xbox games you listed - as fantastic as they may be - are selling for below $15 on average.


Again, why do you think Joe charges so much at the DP store in NJ for a loose common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

When regular Joe Schmoe frat boys walk into the Digital Press store, what old games do they look for? Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath? Kung Fu Chaos? Or Super Mario Bros., Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, and The Legend of Zelda?


There seems to be two sides to this topic:

1. Among us DP members/video game enthusiasts, the answer is simple - the Xbox will not be forgotten. Many of us will collect Xbox games for years to come.

2. Among average video game players (not enthusiasts like us), I just can't see them going out of their way several years from now to track down a copy of Toejam and Earl III or Voodoo Vince. They just aren't considered classics like the Super Mario or Zelda games. Again, ask Joe which old titles non-enthusiasts come into the store to buy. His answer won't be Tron 2.0.


It just depends on whether you take an enthusiast gamer's perspective or a big picture/average consumer perspective.


EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games. I can't imagine Joe Schmoe walking into GameStop, seeing Xbox games on clearance, and thinking, "Wow, I should stock up on all of these obscure games I've never heard of." But again, I'm looking at it from an average consumer perspective, not an enthusiast perspective.

You're comparing games that are only 5-6 years old and are still readily available in many cases new with games that are 20-25 years old at this point. People aren't nostalgic for Xbox yet just like they aren't nostalgic for Gamecube or PS2. Of course vintage games are going to command a premium if only because you can't find them at most stores that sell games. Heck, does Gamestop even sell anything older than PSX nowadays? Games like SMB or Zelda weren't worth much in the early to mid-90s loose and even now don't command huge premiums considering they cost $60-$70 new in mid-1980s dollars which is roughly what like around $85-$95 today? $19 for a Super Smash Bros. cartridge isn't a crazy amount of money considering that the game never sold for less than $40 new and most people paid $60 for it. It's also the first in the series, a cartridge (which appeals to many people with smaller kids) and you're talking about Ebay which attracts collectors and not necessarily the average swap meet or used game store buyer. Whether you want to admit it or not, with an installed base of 20 million or so systems worldwide, lots of people owned the original Xbox and chances are that 20 years from now, many of them will be seeking out the games they once owned or games they never could afford, just like people do today on the Atari 2600, NES, SNES, Genesis, etc...