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Thread: Amiga CD32 inquiry (amiga in general)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet Conscript View Post
    no, the sx-1 is an add on that lets you add a external floppy.
    Correct. The SX-1 provides the following capabilities:

    IBM-PC AT keyboard port.
    9-pin serial port.
    Amiga standard parallel port.
    Amiga standard RGB port.
    Amiga standard floppy drive (use an external drive as DF0:. For more
    drives, daisy chain them from the first one).
    2.5" internal IDE connector (drive fits inside the SX-1).
    3.5" external IDE connector.
    SIMM socket for up to 8 meg additional RAM (restricted to 4 meg if
    you intend to use the FMV cartridge too).
    Audio input (karaoke).
    Internal battery backed clock.
    Pass through connector (for other devices, eg. FMV cartridge).

    You are looking at $50-$150 depending on the seller. Often, they come bundled with a CD32 and a drive which puts the total price at $200-$250.

    In reality, you can get away with just buying an Amiga 1200 if you plan on running games off floppy. 95% of Amiga games are on floppy anyway. Some of the later stuff came out on CD-Rom, but it's not enough to justify buying a CD-Rom drive for an Amiga 1200.
    Last edited by Bojay1997; 04-07-2008 at 07:18 PM.

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    Furthermore, if floppies aren't your thing, getting a A1200 with an 030 expansion with a few extra megs of fast ram and hard drive will allow you to run WHDLoad (www.whdload.de) - hard drive installable games. My 4000T is loaded with slave files for quick Amiga gaming.

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    yes, in this day and age floppies are rather uncomfortable to use, whdload is the way to go(fantastic application), $30 for registration and you're ready to get your favorites onto the hard drive and never have to worry about floppy getting corrupted.
    the same thing is possible on Amiga cd-32 with an sx-1 expansion(with hard drive in it naturally).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Correct. The SX-1 provides the following capabilities:

    IBM-PC AT keyboard port.
    9-pin serial port.
    Amiga standard parallel port.
    Amiga standard RGB port.
    Amiga standard floppy drive (use an external drive as DF0:. For more
    drives, daisy chain them from the first one).
    2.5" internal IDE connector (drive fits inside the SX-1).
    3.5" external IDE connector.
    SIMM socket for up to 8 meg additional RAM (restricted to 4 meg if
    you intend to use the FMV cartridge too).
    Audio input (karaoke).
    Internal battery backed clock.
    Pass through connector (for other devices, eg. FMV cartridge).

    You are looking at $50-$150 depending on the seller. Often, they come bundled with a CD32 and a drive which puts the total price at $200-$250.

    In reality, you can get away with just buying an Amiga 1200 if you plan on running games off floppy. 95% of Amiga games are on floppy anyway. Some of the later stuff came out on CD-Rom, but it's not enough to justify buying a CD-Rom drive for an Amiga 1200.



    Bo, thanks for a great response! very informative.

    i was asking about the 1200 cd drive so i could play cd32 games. basically i want one amiga hardware to play as much of all other amiga software possible (whether i should get cd32 on 1200 or 1200 on cd32 is pretty much what im asking about).


    any info on how i can hook up a cd32 to dvi or vga? (or component)

    and anyone have an answer about the PAL on 1080p LCD televisions? if not ill make a thread about it.
    Last edited by Poofta!; 04-07-2008 at 09:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poofta! View Post
    Bo, thanks for a great response! very informative.

    i was asking about the 1200 cd drive so i could play cd32 games. basically i want one amiga hardware to play as much of all other amiga software possible (whether i should get cd32 on 1200 or 1200 on cd32 is pretty much what im asking about).
    was the bulk of Amiga games made for the 500 model? and if so i heard there was compatability problems playing games ment for thr 500 on a 1200. how bad is the compatability problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Princess-Isabela View Post
    yes, those monitors are the most popular and everything will be displayed as it should(s stands for stereo - built in speakers).
    and other old school systems played on it will look great.
    about the pal/ntsc switch mode, there was actually time when I was doing it with regular cd-32 joypad plugged in, in the second port(by making "circles" on it hehe), but mouse is the best and proper way to do it.
    Does the plain 1084 have built in speakers? I can't quite tell from the pictures I've found.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poofta! View Post
    *how* expensive are these floppy expansions to the cd32? (as well as the RGB) ?
    There are four different expansions for the CD32, you can check out the whole list over here. The bottom of the line is the SX-1, but even this often goes for over $150 on eBay. It also sticks out the back of the CD32, making the setup about twice as deep. The top of the line is the SX-32 Pro, which has a faster processor in it, and actually turns the CD32 into a pretty high-end Amiga (Though this extra speed is meant more for actual Amiga tasks rather than CD32 games).... though SX-32's can easily go over $200.

    Not to mention you still have to buy an Amiga floppy drive on top of that (about $30 or so). Honestly, it's far more sensible to just buy an Amiga 1200 at that point.

    lets say i do get a 1200, i dont mind going through the trouble of getting cd32 to work on it, i heard all i need is some ram and a cd drive -- anything else?
    I've never actually gone through it myself, but you need a special program to actually boot the CD. You'll also probably need a good working knowledge of Workbench and AmigaDOS to set the whole thing up. Seriously, it's not worth it... if you go the computer route, just play the disk versions of the games instead. The only games I can remember off-hand as being CD32 exclusive are Microcosm (which sucks anyways), and The Misadventures of Flink (which you can get for the SegaCD).

    There is another option that is worth mentioning though; there are a lot of WHDLoad installs that will support the CD32 versions of the games. The way WHDLoad works is that it rips the game data from the disk (or CD in these cases), and copies it to a hard drive. Along the way, it patches the game to fix various bugs in the programming, removes copy protection, and sometimes adds extra features like cheats, and an "exit key" to return to Workbench. Doing things this way, you wouldn't have to screw around with funky CD boot programs. If it sounds like this method is complicated, then you're right. It's probably not worthwhile.

    There are also a handful of games (probably less than 5) for the CD32 that make use of the Akiko chip. This chip was only used in the CD32, so you'll never be able to run those games on an Amiga 1200.

    i have a 1080p LCD TV, im not sure if it accepts PAL (honestly i thought the whole idea of pal/ntsc was irrelevant w/ hdtv technology) i never hooked up a PAL source to it... does anyone know if i can, or how it will look?
    It depends on the brand and model of TV. You might want to check the manual, but North American TV's will never bother telling you if they can handle this kind of stuff, so it's kind of a crap shoot. And no, LCD's are not immune to NTSC/PAL differences, unfortunately.

    A Commodore 1084S monitor works great on a CD32 if you can get your hands on one.

    so, my understanding is that lets say most games are PAL, but they will run on an NTSC console no problem, as long as i use a mouse to switch output mode.
    Unfortunately, it's not quite that simple. Some games are nice and will actually have an NTSC/PAL option built-in. There are also games that seem to just ignore the setting and force whatever video mode they want. I honestly don't think it's worth getting a CD32 unless you know you have a good way of handling a 50Hz signal, there's just too many good games that you'll probably have trouble with.

    Zool will actually detect what video mode you're running in, and will give you an error message if you try to play it in NTSC mode... but if you switch into PAL mode, it'll work fine. Now, if the programmers were smart enough to check the video mode, why didn't they program the game to compensate for the difference? Jerks.

    As far as I can tell, F17 Challenge will not work on an NTSC CD32 no matter what you do. This is very strange, since the game actually lets you choose which video mode to use via an option in it's own menus... but it still locks up when you actually try to play. I tried it on my PAL CD32, and it worked perfectly though. Bad programming? Or hardware problems? Who knows.

    So yeah, there's some fucked up shit going on with some of the games.

    i was asking about the 1200 cd drive so i could play cd32 games. basically i want one amiga hardware to play as much of all other amiga software possible (whether i should get cd32 on 1200 or 1200 on cd32 is pretty much what im asking about).
    Ah, the dream of the Amiga scene... unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible to have one Amiga that can run EVERYTHING. Many, MANY games have bugs and quirks that mean they only work with specific versions of Kickstart, or on specific versions of the 68000. Some will freak out if you have too much memory installed, or if obscure timing properties of your system aren't what the game expects. In many cases, the games are meant to run on an Amiga 500, and subtle differences in the Amiga 1200 hardware cause trouble. However, the Amiga 1200 introduced a new video chipset called AGA... so there are games that will run on the Amiga 1200, but not on the 500 (which uses the older OCS chipset). There are even games that were written for the Amiga 1000, and won't run on any other Amiga.

    This is where WHDLoad comes in. There are three main purposes for WHDLoad... 1) Allow the games to be run from a hard drive, regardless of copy protection or bizarre disk formats, 2) Transparently load an appropriate Kickstart ROM into memory if necessary, and 3) Fix bad programming that triggers bugs on other Amiga hardware. In general, the best way to get the most compatible Amiga system is to install WHDLoad on an AGA machine (1200, 4000, or CD32 with appropriate expansions). However, even this setup doesn't guarantee you can run EVERYTHING.

    any info on how i can hook up a cd32 to dvi or vga? (or component)
    The CD32 generates a 15kHz video signal, so in order to get VGA (31kHz), you'd have to get an upscan converter... these are extremely expensive ($200 or more). Component might be possible with a mod, but it wouldn't solve the 50Hz problem if that's what you're thinking, and probably wouldn't be much better than S-Video.

    If I'm not mistaken, all the signals to do an RGB mod are on the expansion port, so adding an RGB port should be trivial... of course, finding an RGB monitor becomes the problem.

    --Zero

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Does the plain 1084 have built in speakers? I can't quite tell from the pictures I've found.
    The 1084 has one speaker, the 1084S has two speakers (The "S" stands for stereo here).

    --Zero

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    I have a CD32 myself. You can usually get CD32 games from online stores that have Amiga stuff. Not that they'll have a great selection, but they'll have a few games. There are actually a surprising number of CD32 releases, considering how short-lived the system was. Granted, most of them are no-frills ports, but even so. Even the straight ports are nice to have on CD rather than floppy.

    I have an SX-1 too. It cost me $75. It's the "worst" of the three add-ons, but the other two are extremely uncommon. With the SX-1, you can put in a hard drive, connect the system to an RGB monitor, and upgrade the RAM. I've upgraded the RAM but I've yet to get a monitor or hard drive. It's a real pain in the ass to get all this stuff, not to mention expensive. I do have a floppy drive, but I only have one floppy disk game so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet Conscript View Post
    was the bulk of Amiga games made for the 500 model? and if so i heard there was compatability problems playing games ment for thr 500 on a 1200. how bad is the compatability problem?
    The compatibility is pretty bad. Basically, if the game came out before the A1200 itself (which was 1992), you can't assume it'll work. However, any Amiga game from 1992 on should work fine. A lot of games (well maybe not that many, but certainly some) were compatible with both but enhanced when played on an AGA machine.

    However, those older, uncompatible games can still be made to run on the A1200 and similar machines. There are three ways. Number one is with a kickstart switcher, which is a device that switches the system's Kickstart to the old one of the A500. They were pretty common back in the day, but no one seems to use them anymore. Number two is with Relokick, a software program that basically does the same thing. And lastly there's WHDLoad, but with that you can't run the game off the floppy, you have to have the full game data on hard drive. All of these are complicated solutions, unfortunately.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheShawn
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    Ze_ro, youre info is amazing. thanks so much. you pretty much cleared everything right up (j_factor thanks too!!!)

    but of course i still have a question or ten.


    were there amigas released after the 1200/cd32? would those be easier to get and have play WHDLoad versions of games? will they play 500/1000/1200?

    also, is there a way i can play amiga on my home pc? this is just part of my curiousity -- i doubt ill bother with it. im really interested in messing around wiht amiga hardware since im a techhead and more or less a pc wiz, but somehow i never touched an amiga, i would love to play around on one. it seems like ill go the 1200/WHDLoad route... or cd32/whdload just for shits and giggles.


    btw, these harddrives, can i use any ata or only special amiga ones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poofta! View Post
    were there amigas released after the 1200/cd32? would those be easier to get and have play WHDLoad versions of games? will they play 500/1000/1200?
    The CD32 was actually the last Amiga released. The chronology goes something like this:
    • 1985 - Amiga 1000 released
    • 1987 - Amiga 500 and Amiga 2000 released
    • 1990 - Amiga 3000 released
    • 1991 - CDTV released
    • 1992 - Amiga 600, Amiga 1200 and Amiga 4000 released
    • 1993 - CD32 relesed
    • 1994 - Commodore declares bankruptcy

    As you can see, the numbering scheme doesn't make much sense. Commodore always insisted on having two tiers of computers, so casual users had a cheaper alternative, while power users could get the best. The 1200, 4000 and CD32 were the only machines with the AGA chipset.

    The Amiga 4000 is the best of the bunch, with some extra features the 1200 lacked, and was far more expandable (the 1200 really only had the trapdoor slot and PCMCIA, while the 4000 had Zorro3 slots, a video card slot, and a CPU Fast slot*). Naturally, the 4000 is also the most sought-after Amiga, so if you can find one, it's likely going to cost you a lot.

    (* - Notice how the 1200 and 4000 have no common expansion port? This kind of hardware incompatibility really hurt the Amiga's, making upgrading a real bitch. The 500 doesn't share any of these ports either.)

    The 1200 is a nice alternative. It's very small (no "case" as such, it's all built-into the keyboard), relatively powerful, and accelerator cards for the 1200 are relatively cheap (around half the price you might expect to pay for an equivalent accelerator for any other Amiga). There is also a ton of other weird hardware available for the 1200, though that stuff gets really expensive.

    There are some other goofy computers, like the DraCo, Pegasos II, and AmigaOne... but calling these "Amiga" is a bit of a stretch, and none of them can natively play Amiga games, so what's the point?

    also, is there a way i can play amiga on my home pc? this is just part of my curiousity -- i doubt ill bother with it. im really interested in messing around wiht amiga hardware since im a techhead and more or less a pc wiz, but somehow i never touched an amiga, i would love to play around on one. it seems like ill go the 1200/WHDLoad route... or cd32/whdload just for shits and giggles.
    WinUAE is the de-facto Amiga emulator. There are a lot of options (owing to the wide range of Amiga hardware), so it can get a bit confusing, but it should play pretty much everything.

    btw, these harddrives, can i use any ata or only special amiga ones?
    It depends on the model of Amiga. The Amiga 1200 uses a 2.5" IDE drive (commonly used in PC laptops. 3.5" will work, but won't fit inside the case), as do all of the CD32 expansions I believe. The Amiga 3000 uses SCSI drives, and SCSI cards were available for most other models as well. Some Amiga software and hardware can have problems accessing large drives (they still work, you just might not be able to use anything beyond 4GB).

    By the way, while the 1200 has a built-in IDE controller, you can't use it to run an ATAPI CD-ROM drive unless you invest in some extra equipment. A more common option for CD-ROM on the 1200 is via PCMCIA.

    --Zero

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    Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but I'd like to spell things out in no uncertain terms. If I buy the following...

    1. One of the NTSC CD32s that are all over eBay
    2. A mouse to switch to PAL mode at startup
    3. A 1084/1084S monitor

    ... then I can play any PAL game perfectly? No parts of the screen cut off, no messed up colors, no flicker/scrolling screen?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but I'd like to spell things out in no uncertain terms. If I buy the following...

    1. One of the NTSC CD32s that are all over eBay
    2. A mouse to switch to PAL mode at startup
    3. A 1084/1084S monitor

    ... then I can play any PAL game perfectly? No parts of the screen cut off, no messed up colors, no flicker/scrolling screen?
    already answered below.
    I was using it with one of the add-ons through rgb as my other A's and it looked fantastic, going with either composite/s-video pales in comparison with native rgb.
    Last edited by Princess-Isabela; 04-09-2008 at 04:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but I'd like to spell things out in no uncertain terms. If I buy the following...

    1. One of the NTSC CD32s that are all over eBay
    2. A mouse to switch to PAL mode at startup
    3. A 1084/1084S monitor

    ... then I can play any PAL game perfectly? No parts of the screen cut off, no messed up colors, no flicker/scrolling screen?
    No, not quite, you'd need more than that. The CD32 has s-video standard, but doesn't have an RGB output. You'd need one of the add-ons -- all of them have it -- to hook up RGB. I would assume that, alternatively, it's possible to mod the system with an RGB out, but I wouldn't know about it.

    Also, I'm not sure if you even need to switch to PAL mode once you're using RGB. RGB is its own color system, independent of NTSC/PAL/whatever. One of the reasons RGB became so prevalent in Europe was because France and much of Eastern Europe use SECAM whereas the rest of Europe uses PAL, and with RGB you have one signal that works in all countries. A mouse would be good regardless though, if only because many games use it.
    Last edited by j_factor; 04-09-2008 at 03:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheShawn
    Please highlight what a douche I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but I'd like to spell things out in no uncertain terms. If I buy the following...

    1. One of the NTSC CD32s that are all over eBay
    2. A mouse to switch to PAL mode at startup
    3. A 1084/1084S monitor

    ... then I can play any PAL game perfectly? No parts of the screen cut off, no messed up colors, no flicker/scrolling screen?
    Yes. That's my setup exactly.

    It's worth pointing out that a lot of CD32 games support the mouse, so you're not just getting it to change video modes. Ever read the write-up of Liberation in DP Advance? I guarantee you whoever wrote that wasn't using a mouse! The game is actually excellent, just incredibly complicated without a mouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    No, not quite, you'd need more than that. The CD32 has s-video standard, but doesn't have an RGB output.
    Well, you don't NEED to hook up in RGB. S-Video works perfectly fine (this is what I use, via a home-made cable), and composite should work fine too. The problem is finding a monitor that handles 50Hz properly, and at least if you buy a 1084S, you KNOW that it'll work because Commodore designed the monitor and the Amiga chipset to be compatible. There are plenty of other monitors that will work too (An Atari SC1224 should work), but finding out which ones handle 50Hz gracefully is not always easy.

    Being able to do RGB is certainly a nice addition though.

    Also, I'm not sure if you even need to switch to PAL mode once you're using RGB. RGB is its own color system, independent of NTSC/PAL/whatever.
    Well, RGB can still be 50 or 60Hz, so you would still have to switch. The "colour problem" goes away, but as long as you're using an NTSC CD32, you wouldn't have the colour problem anyways.

    --Zero

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    since were kinda on the subject, i was wondering. are acual Amigas region locked? i have a Amiga 500 and i was looking to buy some games from the UK. would they play fine or not?

    also is there any way to mod a 500 for s-video? or am i stuck with composite if i want to use my TV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet Conscript View Post
    since were kinda on the subject, i was wondering. are acual Amigas region locked? i have a Amiga 500 and i was looking to buy some games from the UK. would they play fine or not?

    also is there any way to mod a 500 for s-video? or am i stuck with composite if i want to use my TV.
    computers in general are not region locked to any specific region that would prevent you from playing majority of the games.
    make sure to go to early bootup startup sequence(your tv though might still have trouble displaying pal signal).
    s-video won't improve picture quality significantly, rgb is really way to go with Amiga's and old-school systems in general so it would be really wise to pick one of those awesome 1084s monitors and enjoy Amiga graphics in all its glory ^^
    Last edited by Princess-Isabela; 04-10-2008 at 12:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_ro View Post
    Well, you don't NEED to hook up in RGB. S-Video works perfectly fine (this is what I use, via a home-made cable), and composite should work fine too. The problem is finding a monitor that handles 50Hz properly, and at least if you buy a 1084S, you KNOW that it'll work because Commodore designed the monitor and the Amiga chipset to be compatible. There are plenty of other monitors that will work too (An Atari SC1224 should work), but finding out which ones handle 50Hz gracefully is not always easy.

    Being able to do RGB is certainly a nice addition though.
    Ah. Actually, I still don't have a monitor yet. I totally forgot that those monitors accept s-video and composite. For some reason I had it in my head that they were RGB only. So, forget I said that.

    Well, RGB can still be 50 or 60Hz, so you would still have to switch. The "colour problem" goes away, but as long as you're using an NTSC CD32, you wouldn't have the colour problem anyways.
    D'oh, I forgot it was a speed switch. Although, a good number of games are perfectly playable without switching the speed. I used to know somebody who'd import European versions of games just so they'd run faster. He was pretty eccentric.

    One last note. The 1084S may not be worth it. Prices vary a lot, but sometimes I notice a pretty big increase for the 1084S over the regular 1084. It may be cheaper to get a 1084 and a pair of computer speakers. If you want to save a little money, that is. I've found that the total cost of the CD32 is more expensive than it first seems.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheShawn
    Please highlight what a douche I am.

  19. #39
    Cherry (Level 1)
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    I'm raising this thread from the depths because I finally got a CD32, and now I'm even more confused! I went ahead and got an NTSC one from ebay, but I was just planning on holding onto it until I got a 1084 monitor and Amiga mouse. But much to my surprise, when I plugged it in and fired up D\Generation, it worked brilliantly with no display issues whatsoever on my NTSC TV over S-video. Did I somehow end up with an NTSC version of the game or what? What games actually received an NTSC release?
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  20. #40
    Pear (Level 6) robotriot's Avatar
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    I think it's almost impossible to tell which games had NTSC versions, at least I've never seen a list or anything. The only one I know for sure is Diggers, it even has NTSC written on the CD. I guess some games might be "dual" mode, and work both ways, maybe D/Generation is one of them? I've got almost a complete CD32 library, but only a PAL CD32, so I can't test the titles for NTSC compatibility :/
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