Digital TVs transition...

[lkermel]

I don't know if many of you know about this, but beginning of 2009, broadcast television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting on analog airwaves and begin broadcasting only in digital... this may mean that new TV sets won't be able to read the analog output from old consoles such as the Atari 2600 and so on... I'm been concerned about this and our hobby, what do the rest of you think ?...

[InsaneDavid]

Um, it's nothing to worry about. The broadcast flag is nothing new but it actually seems to be set in stone this time - the endless TV ad campaigns are showing that. That's the thing though, it effects broadcast over the airwaves and your TV being able to pick up digital over-the-air broadcast with an antenna. Plenty of cable suppliers are going to continue to pipe analog signal through the wire (which is why the broadcast flag is cable's ace in the hole in my opinion) so I don't see analog receivers being removed from TV's any time soon.

CRT's going away and every previous generation of lightgun compatibility going with them is a much bigger concern.

[udisi]

Well in the farther future, maybe TV's will stop taking analog, but the 2009 change over is over blown. The Tv you have now will work just fine if you have cable. It's just people with rabbit ears that are screwed as those signals will stop. Cable now is mostly analog, and your tv will contine to read that signal just fine after the transition.

In the far future, maybe Satellite and Cable will become fully digital and TV producers may change the actual hardware of sets, but hell the newest 1080p HDTV's can still handle atari, NES , etc. I think it'll be a long time till we have problems with them.

[Cornelius]

I hadn't really thought about how they'd be removing the analog tuners, but I guess they will eventually. Lots of ways around it, though. I've got three options that I could use right now...

1. Computer w/ a tuner in it - may introduce too much lag, never tried it.
2. DVR w/ rf input and composite outs
3. HD tuner that can also tune analog

and I've always got the old VCR in the basement I could use in the same way. The thing is, TVs are really quite durable, and old ones will be plentiful and cheap for a very long time. Same is true of VCRs. I'm not too worried.

The best option would just be to get your system modified so it outputs composite or s-vid.

[MarkM2112]

Actually, this may actually be a boon to our hobby...

Consider this: Between now and 2009, people will be upgrading their televisions to accept the new digital signals, which means most of them will be getting rid of their otherwise functional non upgradable analog TV's for very little or nothing! A good deal for an old school room of doom! Just keep your eyes peeled for such deals via the thrifts, Craigslist, classified ads, or your local Freecycle... www.freecycle.org

[InsaneDavid]

Actually, this may actually be a boon to our hobby...

Consider this: Between now and 2009, people will be upgrading their televisions to accept the new digital signals, which means most of them will be getting rid of their otherwise functional non upgradable analog TV's for very little or nothing! A good deal for an old school room of doom! Just keep your eyes peeled for such deals via the thrifts, Craigslist, classified ads, or your local Freecycle... www.freecycle.org

Problem with that ideology is a small converter box fixes the problem of a TV not accepting digital over-the-air signal. People would much rather drop less than $100.00 on a converter box than replace an entire set that is working fine honestly. Then again, it still amazes me that people use antennas for television and can get any decent reception - unless you're out in the middle of nowhere. Most will probably switch to the most basic cable services. If anything you'll see older pocket TV prices drop through the floor, which will be good for the custom built portables hobby.

[jb143]

Actually, this may actually be a boon to our hobby...

Consider this: Between now and 2009, people will be upgrading their televisions to accept the new digital signals, which means most of them will be getting rid of their otherwise functional non upgradable analog TV's for very little or nothing! A good deal for an old school room of doom! Just keep your eyes peeled for such deals via the thrifts, Craigslist, classified ads, or your local Freecycle... www.freecycle.org

I agree with this. I recently upgraded my little 21" TV to a 32"(I think). It barely fit in my entertainment center. What did it cost me? Nothing other than hauling it away from someones house that upgraded to a digital set. We already have basic cable so that doesn't matter much to us.

[Neil Koch]

Problem with that ideology is a small converter box fixes the problem of a TV not accepting digital over-the-air signal. People would much rather drop less than $100.00 on a converter box than replace an entire set that is working fine honestly.

I think you're discounting the stupidity of a lot of Americans. I'm sure there are tons of people out there seeing the commericals about the conversion and thinking "OMG! Now I need a HDTV!" and will be just getting rid of their existing TV.

[Pantechnicon]

If anything you'll see older pocket TV prices drop through the floor, which will be good for the custom built portables hobby.

I had this exact same thought last week. Come January 2009 I hope to go strutting out of Radio Shack with a crate full of $5 apiece Casio portable TV's under each arm. Spare parts for life!

Just for grins, I'm kicking around hosting a "Goodbye, Analog" party on Feb. 16, 2009. Everybody would bring over an old analog set and we'd turn them all on for the last time. It'd be a lot like a New Year's party except instead of watching Dick Clark's ball drop at midnight we'd watch all the signals turn to snow.

Invitation open to all DP'ers

[Soviet Conscript]

I hadn't really thought about how they'd be removing the analog tuners, but I guess they will eventually. Lots of ways around it, though. I've got three options that I could use right now...

1. Computer w/ a tuner in it - may introduce too much lag, never tried it.
2. DVR w/ rf input and composite outs
3. HD tuner that can also tune analog

and I've always got the old VCR in the basement I could use in the same way. The thing is, TVs are really quite durable, and old ones will be plentiful and cheap for a very long time. Same is true of VCRs. I'm not too worried.

The best option would just be to get your system modified so it outputs composite or s-vid.

would that work? i though composite and s-video were analog signals. so if you had a TV with no analog tuner i'm assumeing it wouldn't have composite or s-video connections either..

[Iron Draggon]

it's not that both old and new TV's alike can't decode analog signals anymore after the switch, it's that nothing but static will appear on all the old analog channels if you try to tune into them, cause everything will be broadcast in digital... what you'll need a converter box for is if you want to receive digital signals through an external antenna... the box will convert the digital signals to analog signals that your old analog TV will be able to decode... but if you have cable, any necessary signal conversion will be done by your provider, thus eliminating the need for a converter box... so the only thing you need a new TV for is if you want to enjoy the higher resolution of the new digital signals... cause your old TV still won't be able to display a higher resolution...

now as for all your old games, here's where you need to be concerned... some new TV's don't support the lower resolutions of older game systems... they can still display them, but not in their native resolutions... so what happens is the display gets stretched out of proportion to fit the higher resolution screen, and the result will depend on the native resolution of your digital TV, as well as its aspect ratio... so if it's a widescreen TV, and you're playing a game that doesn't support widescreen aspect ratios on it, your game display is gonna look like an image captured in silly putty that's been stretched... and it's prolly gonna be either very blurry or very pixelated or both, even if it's not a widescreen TV, because of the lower resolution game display being adjusted to fill the screen of the higher resolution digital TV...

light gun games are also a concern, as they won't work with LCD or plasma displays... so if you have some light gun games that you want to continue to enjoy, you'll need to make sure that you get a digital TV with a CRT display... and the good news about that is, digital TV's with CRT displays are among the cheapest of all digital TV's... so you won't have to spend alot to get one... the bad news is, you'll need alot of space for it, cause you won't be able to get one of those really slim models that hangs on a wall real nice... those models use LCD or plasma displays, which don't support old light guns...

so what's the best thing that you can do to make sure that you can still enjoy all your old games for decades to come, while still enjoying the best display possible? well you should prolly stock up on any RGB monitor that you happen to find, and learn how to play all your old games in RGB... this is prolly gonna become the surest sign of a true hardcore retro gamer... and some may argue that it already is... if you've ever seen a game displayed in RGB, you'll understand why... this is the same display used in most arcade games... which is both good news and bad news... good news because old RGB monitors will be very plentiful to find, but bad news because most of them will have some burn-in from their days of service in arcade cabinets...

how to play games in RGB:

http://nfggames.com/atarilabs/meat/2...gbprimer.shtml

[Pantechnicon]

would that work? i though composite and s-video were analog signals. so if you had a TV with no analog tuner i'm assumeing it wouldn't have composite or s-video connections either..

Yes it would work. As InsaneDavid pointed out, what's affected here by the new legislation are over-the-air analog broadcasts of television stations. Game consoles use the same signals but they do it 1) At a considerably lower signal strength and 2) through various cable connections, s-vid, composite, RF or whatever have you.

Even if the stations stop broadcasting analog, it's probably going to be a long time before we see the demise of s-video or even composite input jacks installed in modern and future televisions for the sake of backward compatibility with the millions of DVD players, DVR's etc. out there where these connectors are standard and none of this has anything to do with "broadcasting", per se.

As a classic gamer, the easiest thing you can do in preparation of the switch is to simply hold on to one or two old analog sets. Rest assured, barring extraneous mechanical problems, they will continue to work. I, for one, look forward to the idea of my Colecovision theoretically being the only thing broadcasting on channel 2 within a 10-mile radius or whatever come March 2009. The notion has a sort of "Omega Man" vibe to it.

[thetoxicone]

Just for grins, I'm kicking around hosting a "Goodbye, Analog" party on Feb. 16, 2009. Everybody would bring over an old analog set and we'd turn them all on for the last time. It'd be a lot like a New Year's party except instead of watching Dick Clark's ball drop at midnight we'd watch all the signals turn to snow.

Invitation open to all DP'ers

I like that idea

[jb143]

Something that a lot of people don't realize, and those commercials don't advertise, is that many stations are exempt from this. It only applies to full power stations, not low power stations and translators. And there are a lot of them. Many high power network stations going to digital may still continue to use their analog translator stations(repeaters)

So analog won't be completely dead. There's several in the St. Louis area. You can check your area here...
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/LPTVmap.html

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I don't know if many of you know about this, but beginning of 2009, broadcast television stations in the United States will stop broadcasting on analog airwaves and begin broadcasting only in digital... this may mean that new TV sets won't be able to read the analog output from old consoles such as the Atari 2600 and so on... I'm been concerned about this and our hobby, what do the rest of you think ?...

Wait, what's "digital"?

After reading this thread, there is absolutely nothing my tech-y head can think of that hasn't been said so eloquently in the above posts. And I don't think any TV's in the foreseeable future will get rid of these connections... There are a dozen reasons why- and again, they've already been stated above.

[davidbrit2]

So, my wife and I picked up a DTV (ATSC) tuner last night. It's the Insignia NS-DXA1 from Best Buy. And I've got to say, if you're sticking to broadcast TV, don't wait until 2009 to pick one of these up! We're now getting better reception and more channels than before, using the same indoor antenna we've had all along. Unless you're in a very fringe area, or subject to ghosting/multipathing reception problems, you'll likely get a significant upgrade.

That being said, I really doubt analog inputs on TV sets will be going away any time soon. You'll still have composite and s-video jacks for years to come. And frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see sets equipped with both digital ATSC and analog NTSC tuners specifically for the purpose of supporting legacy equipment.

[Battlehork]

I think you're discounting the stupidity of a lot of Americans. I'm sure there are tons of people out there seeing the commericals about the conversion and thinking "OMG! Now I need a HDTV!" and will be just getting rid of their existing TV.

What would be great is if people who had GOOD CRT sets like 30"+ Sony Wegas use it as an excuse to get an HDTV.

What will probably actually happen is people will be asking for way too much money for 15 year old Magnavoxes that don't even have composite in.

[Greg2600]

My snafu with this is I have an old portable 5" screen television, which I use outside in the yard sometimes. In order to use it now, I'll have to plug in this dumb converter box!

[Trevelyan]

it's happening here in the UK too, I think its started/ended in some places already. I think big TV manufacturers will always include an analog input/output (whatever it is!) tbh, probably

[jb143]

My snafu with this is I have an old portable 5" screen television, which I use outside in the yard sometimes. In order to use it now, I'll have to plug in this dumb converter box!

You can see my responce up just a few posts...but there's a good chance your portable will still pick up some stations.

I'm wondering though, what the prices for Game Gear TV tuners will do...or have done already.