Multi-part RPG's (xenosaga, .hack, etc..)

[Sylentwulf]

WTF is this crap they're starting to pull?

After finishing Xenosaga my ONLY thought was "OH! They took a full length RPG and split it up into 6 parts (or however many)" I Thgouht it was going to be a 6 game Series, meaning 6 full games in one series, or even along the lines of Final Fantasy. Regardless, I was expecting a fuyll game and only got half of one. I'm HOPING this trend will not continue, OR I will not be charged Fifty friggin dollars per game-part.

OK, .hack had the bonus DVD. So what. That cost them and extra $1.... oooooooohhh aaaaaaaaahhhhhh.

[Kid Fenris]

Well, I've really enjoyed the gameplay portions of Xenosaga thus far, so I'd say that I've already gotten my money's worth. The first .hack game is shorter and less satisfying, but unlike Xenosaga, its subsequent episodes are clearly on the way.

In fact, I don't think that Monolith has even begun work on the next Xenosaga game, which makes me wonder if the series will turn out like some anime OVA that stops abruptly after the second or third episode.

I think that both .hack and Xenosaga are good enough (and many recent RPGs mediocre enough) to raise this question: which would you rather play, the first part of a unique, well-crafted RPG, or a run-of-the-mill, self-contained RPG that curtails its own vision just to wrap itself up in less than forty hours? (And don't you say "I'd rather play a shooter," Bargora.) It's kind of like a choice between watching the The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, or Willow.

I must now steel myself for the inevitable assault from Willow fans.

[bargora]

Response the first:
Wha? /me <3 RPGs
They are fantastic for blowing things up.

Response the second:
What makes you think that I would spend precious seconds of my life reading this RPG thread?

Response the third:
MMmmmmmmph! Rrrrrrrrgh! Uuuuuuurrrm!

Response the fourth:
Yes, I would rather be left hanging by a good RPG than play a crappy one that neatly ties up everything in 35-40 hours. Hypothetically speaking, of course. :P But if I didn't KNOW that I would be left hanging ahead of time, I would probably experience a moment of rage before laughing at myself and at the audacity of the game designers who dared to do such a thing.

Postscript:
I will not tell my wife about your vicious slandering of Willow.

[Sylentwulf]

But each LOTR movie is as lon or LONGER than any other full length movie out there. I think my end time for Xenosaga was low thirties.... not bad, but I was expecting something along the lines of, ohhh... I dunno.,... XENOGEARS in length, and magnitude.

Honestly, I was expecting 40-60 hours (not "getting everything there is to get") and a beginning to end RPG. I knew there were sequels, but I figured they would at least ATTEMPT to tie everything together at the end of each episode, this one is like driving into a brick wall, you'd think they would let the car slow down before it stops ya know? Or at least TELL you "Hey! Watch out for that brick wa<SMACK>"

[kainemaxwell]

I actually don't mind them. Adds mor eincentive to figure out more the story and see what happens next.

[zmeston]

WTF is this crap they're starting to pull?

After finishing Xenosaga my ONLY thought was "OH! They took a full length RPG and split it up into 6 parts (or however many)" I Thgouht it was going to be a 6 game Series, meaning 6 full games in one series, or even along the lines of Final Fantasy. Regardless, I was expecting a fuyll game and only got half of one. I'm HOPING this trend will not continue, OR I will not be charged Fifty friggin dollars per game-part.

OK, .hack had the bonus DVD. So what. That cost them and extra $1.... oooooooohhh aaaaaaaaahhhhhh.

My foremost complaint with the trend of serial RPGs is that they always end so horribly. Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers have ended at just the right moments, and even the wretched Star Wars: Episodes I and II went out decently, but these RPGs end like the Commando Cody shorts of the 1930s... "WILL Commandy Cody survive the Zortog Ray of Neblar-14?! Find out next week!!" After investing 10, 20, or 30 hours into an RPG, I want to end with a measure of resolution and satisfaction, not to be left dangling with a cheesy cliffhanger.

As for Xenosaga, I have my extreme doubts as to whether all six parts will even make it out. It took Namco a year just to LOCALIZE Xenosaga, after all. At 18-24 months per sequel, that's another seven to ten years at bare minimum, but you also have to include the time it takes to learn new hardware (since Monolith Soft will have to jump to the PS3 midway through).

As for .hack, it's just a single decent RPG split into fourths and priced at $200, not that fans of the franchise seem to care. What offends me more about .hack is the ridiculous assertion of the storyline that a sub-par dungeon crawler would become the most popular online experience in the world. (Insert slanderous EverQuest comment here.)

-- Z.

[bizounce]

Yeah...kinda gave up on .hack. It was a really good idea, IMO, but not good enough as a game for me. I think they rushed this idea way too fast and it could be a million times better than it already is.

Xenosaga, I really like it. I wish it had more music though, not just 9 repeated tracks. As for being unique and all, it makes me play it. I love the idea of KOS-MOS, and I love Ziggy's story. I enjoy the whole play, watch, play, watch. It builds up between each part and gives you a break from the game play with a nice chunk of story to immerse you in. I've enjoyed the game immensely.

Yeah, I've also become a complete fanboy because of FFX-2. I know a lot of people are going to totally kick my ass for wanting to play this so bad. I just love the atmosphere. Call it bad taste or whatever you will, but all I know is that I'm going to enjoy it. In the end, that's all that matters, right?

[Dahne]

The one that really pissed me off was Golden Sun.

"La la la, on to the next village."

"Just kidding! Buy Golden Sun 2!"

[kainemaxwell]

Only thing I like so far of FFX-2 is the opening song and video myself.

[Sylentwulf]

FFX-2:

Square - "Man, we spent a LOT of time and money on these character models and graphics engine. Can't we use them for something else?"

Employee in the back of the room - "I know! Pick me! Pick Me!"

[zmeston]

Yeah...kinda gave up on .hack. It was a really good idea, IMO, but not good enough as a game for me. I think they rushed this idea way too fast and it could be a million times better than it already is.

Xenosaga, I really like it. I wish it had more music though, not just 9 repeated tracks. As for being unique and all, it makes me play it. I love the idea of KOS-MOS, and I love Ziggy's story. I enjoy the whole play, watch, play, watch. It builds up between each part and gives you a break from the game play with a nice chunk of story to immerse you in. I've enjoyed the game immensely.

Yeah, I've also become a complete fanboy because of FFX-2. I know a lot of people are going to totally kick my ass for wanting to play this so bad. I just love the atmosphere. Call it bad taste or whatever you will, but all I know is that I'm going to enjoy it. In the end, that's all that matters, right?

I don't know that I even think .hack is a good idea. (It's certainly not an original one -- there have been variations on the "malevolent ghost in the machine" story for a couple of decades now.) I do realize that fans will buy the games no matter what, though; Bandai's titles are absolutely review-proof. There are millions of hardcore Tolkien fans, but Universal's crappy LOTR games deservedly sold like crap, while hardcore Bandai fans snap up Mobile Suit Gundam and Dragon Ball and .hack tie-in games regardless of their mediocre content.

Xenosaga is a very good game, but I loathe KOS-MOS -- she's a ridiculous character that virtually destroys the sophisticated storyline by her/its very presence. What the hell would motivate a humble, timid female (just the way Japanese men seem to like 'em) to design an artificial sex kitten? No self-respecting woman, and certainly not one possessed with considerable intelligence, would design or even tolerate a robot with KOS-MOS' blatantly sexual appearance. It's illogical fanservice, and it totally clashes with the mature story. FFX-2, from what I've read and seen of it so far, seems to be a lighthearted romp, so the fanservice works in that case. (The fanservice bromides in the PS1 Lunar remakes were also dubious, but I tried to handle 'em with the proper amount of silliness.)

-- Z.

[kainemaxwell]

Yeah...kinda gave up on .hack. It was a really good idea, IMO, but not good enough as a game for me. I think they rushed this idea way too fast and it could be a million times better than it already is.

Xenosaga, I really like it. I wish it had more music though, not just 9 repeated tracks. As for being unique and all, it makes me play it. I love the idea of KOS-MOS, and I love Ziggy's story. I enjoy the whole play, watch, play, watch. It builds up between each part and gives you a break from the game play with a nice chunk of story to immerse you in. I've enjoyed the game immensely.

Yeah, I've also become a complete fanboy because of FFX-2. I know a lot of people are going to totally kick my ass for wanting to play this so bad. I just love the atmosphere. Call it bad taste or whatever you will, but all I know is that I'm going to enjoy it. In the end, that's all that matters, right?

I don't know that I even think .hack is a good idea. (It's certainly not an original one -- there have been variations on the "malevolent ghost in the machine" story for a couple of decades now.) I do realize that fans will buy the games no matter what, though; Bandai's titles are absolutely review-proof. There are millions of hardcore Tolkien fans, but Universal's crappy LOTR games deservedly sold like crap, while hardcore Bandai fans snap up Mobile Suit Gundam and Dragon Ball and .hack tie-in games regardless of their mediocre content.

Xenosaga is a very good game, but I loathe KOS-MOS -- she's a ridiculous character that virtually destroys the sophisticated storyline by her/its very presence. What the hell would motivate a humble, timid female (just the way Japanese men seem to like 'em) to design an artificial sex kitten? No self-respecting woman, and certainly not one possessed with considerable intelligence, would design or even tolerate a robot with KOS-MOS' blatantly sexual appearance. It's illogical fanservice, and it totally clashes with the mature story. FFX-2, from what I've read and seen of it so far, seems to be a lighthearted romp, so the fanservice works in that case. (The fanservice bromides in the PS1 Lunar remakes were also dubious, but I tried to handle 'em with the proper amount of silliness.)

-- Z.

I still have nightmares from Borgan's Bromide.

[Sylentwulf]

Yeah, they should have made KOS-MOS a 60 year old toothless fat hairy chick. That would have been better.

They were building it with the intent of making it human looking, why make it ugly?

[zmeston]

Yeah, they should have made KOS-MOS a 60 year old toothless fat hairy chick. That would have been better.

They were building it with the intent of making it human looking, why make it ugly?

There's a difference between looking human and looking like a cyborg Playboy Playmate. If the intent of KOS-MOS was to disarm and seduce the enemy with its beauty (a la the Terminatrix in Terminator 3), that would make sense, and be a cool plot point, as well. Alas, the point of KOS-MOS is blatant fanservice, and in a game with a Nietzsche reference in the title, that's an absurdity. You can't take the high road and the low road at the same time.

Or, try the role-reversal approach: if you were a male scientist, would you design a cyborg who walked around with a bare chest and bike shorts, so that the whole world could see his unit? It's totally ludicrous.

Humans have always wanted to look at attractive members of their species, of course; that's why we have movie stars. God knows I do. But KOS-MOS belonged in another game, not this one.

-- Z.

[bizounce]

I also look at the fact that it is fantasy, and it really doesn't have to make sense. KOS-MOS, the actual idea, was needed in the story. Her image, yes, could have been much different. There was nothing wrong with making her look beautiful, but they didn't have to give her the legs and chest. This on the other hand doesn't bother me. KOS-MOS is my favorite character in the game, and would still be in any other image.

[zmeston]

I also look at the fact that it is fantasy, and it really doesn't have to make sense. KOS-MOS, the actual idea, was needed in the story. Her image, yes, could have been much different. There was nothing wrong with making her look beautiful, but they didn't have to give her the legs and chest. This on the other hand doesn't bother me. KOS-MOS is my favorite character in the game, and would still be in any other image.

Of course it's fantasy. Of course it doesn't need to make sense. Watership Down is a wonderful story about talking rabbits.

The point is that KOS-MOS's blatant sexuality conflicts with the TYPE OF STORY being told here. Monolith Soft has loudly boasted of the sophistication of the story, how it demands to be told across a series of six games, but sophistication and fanservice don't mix. (Or at least, Monolith Soft hasn't mixed them well here.)

KOS-MOS disconnects me from the story because I refuse to believe that any woman with a shred of self-respect would construct this robot. Anime girls have almost always been sexualized, yes, but this example of it is especially onerous.

KOS-MOS also reinforces the ever-present stereotype of RPG fans as socially inept males who are incapable of relating to real women, a stereotype that was unfortunately reinforced in my mind during my WD stint.

-- Z.

[Sylentwulf]

<shrug>
I think you're gonna have a hard time getting anyone to agree with ya, but hey. To each their own.

MY thoughts on it were "What story?"

Everyone's reviews of this game were fight for 10 minutes, watch for an hour. To me it seemed more like play for 40 minutes, watch for 10 minutes. Especially after playing FFX.

[bizounce]

Yeah, I agree with you there actually. It was more like "There are things happening! Oh yeah, here's a little story line too. A little."

As for the KOS-MOS image thing though, I really do understand. I really like her face, very pretty, almost angelic. Every woman would want to have a beautiful daughter, but wouldn't want their daughter to look slutty. To me looks really don't matter. The image of KOS-MOS doesn't bother me, but I see what you mean. I thought she looked cool. Her image rather reminded me of Cammy from Street Fighter (Alpha sprite).

Hey Zach, what do you think of Shion's image?

[zmeston]

<shrug>
I think you're gonna have a hard time getting anyone to agree with ya, but hey. To each their own.

MY thoughts on it were "What story?"

Everyone's reviews of this game were fight for 10 minutes, watch for an hour. To me it seemed more like play for 40 minutes, watch for 10 minutes. Especially after playing FFX.

I'm not trying to get anyone to agree with my opinions; I'm just sharing them. Believe me, I know that ranting against the evils of unrealistic women in videogames is futile.

-- Z.

[Sylentwulf]

Well, Shion didn't know about the weapon KOS-MOS had in her stomach, so who says she designed her anyways? You'd think if you made something you would know about 6 panels opening up in it's chest and shooting a huge blue beam from them.