Does anybody feel that modern RPG's need to become simpler.

[Mason P.]

I was thinking at work how I would love to get into a new RPG. I grew up on Final Fatasy 1 and Dragon Warrior (1-4) Ultima and the like. At the time the stories were alittle more simple and the magic wasn't as complicated as todays RPG's. Now at 30 years old I feel that I need a degree almost to use some of the complicated crafting and magic systems in modern games. Whatever happed to those old styles? I am sure some will say they have evolved into what we have now, but I can't help but feel that there had to be "a time of change".

Anyway, what is your feeling? Do feel that they are to complicated or do feel they need more options and choices?

Thank you,
Mason

[Sudo]

I think they've become more simple from the last gen, actually. I love complex battle systems and storylines.

[carlcarlson]

I find that the simpler rpgs get repetitious much more quickly than ones with a more involved battle or experience system. Some are defintely pretty dense, but rpgs as a genre are kind of known to be deep, so I think it just kind of comes with the territory.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

these days, i get really bored with the standard "ancient evil, collect the stones/crystals bla bla bla" stories that classic rpg's had.

story is really what i'm in for, so as long as the battle and levelling system is passable, i'll probably have a good time. at least that's how it is for jrpgs. on wrpgs, i get more enjoyment out of customizing and building up my character.

i would like for more rpgs to have the same depth of customization as modern ones, just in shorter bits. i don't have the time anymore to go on 100-hour quests (which is why i'll probably never finish oblivion or ff12). something that clocks in at 20-30 hours would be much more manageable.

[j1e]

I know exactly how you feel. I like those "old school" RPG's myself. If you haven't played Dragon Quest VIII for PS2, you should really dig that one. It brings that old gen feeling back. BTW, if anyone else knows of any RPG's like DQVIII, let me know what they are. I'm looking for more. Thanks - Mike

[mailman187666]

I think I've gotten the hang of the whole modern RPG thing because they mostly all tell you how to play as you progress in the game. It doesn't usually throw everything at you in the very begining but more gradually. You just need to find the rpg that suits you. Final Fantasy X isn't really too complicated but still has a good amount of depth. A game like Persona 3 requires a lot more time and thought to play. Read some reviews and ask around and I'm sure you'll have find some that you like. The PSP also has a bunch of rpgs (including the old final fantasys and the Genesis collection with Phantasy Star 2-4). I usually take my sweet time in the beggining of RPGs to learn how to battle and level up, but I love rpgs so I push myself to learn it. I think if you can put in the time with a game like Persona 3 or maybe even the Shadow Hearts series, you'll be glad you learned it and will most likely have a good experience. Check out the first two Shadow Hearts games, I think they may be a little closer to what you're looking for.

[Cryomancer]

Modern RPGs are too much into the action-RPG stuff I think. I like menus.

My suggestion is to try Blue Dragon. Simple classic gameplay for the most part, non-completely-cliched storyline. And Definetly play DQ8.

[drewbrim]

I partly feel the same way. I dig the complex story/world/battle systems but I can't stand the extra ability grid/job system/alchemy elements new rpg's have going on. It practically forces you (meaning me) to shell out for the guide, or play the game with GameFaq's close by. The materia system in FF7 was pretty much perfect as far as I'm concerned. Just enough customization without being overly complex.

[Kamisama]

I havent played any PS2/PS3 RPGs, but at least for the PSX there were lots of nice RPGs, don't know how much more complex they are today

However, the real old ones like DQ1 are too simplistic imho.. Star Ocean 2 for example was pretty cool in terms of complexity.

[Daria]

I mix it up. I can easily go from a big convoluted modern day epic and follow it up with an old school 8-bit RPG. I generally like it when RPGs try out a new system. But I also like the simplicity of playing something old, usually when I don't want to think too hard. Like last night, I couldn't sleep so I walked around level grinding in Ultima Exodus. :P

[AB Positive]

I find anything pretty much past Skies of Arcadia a bit too complex for turn-based for me nowadays.

However, complexity for me is wonderful on turn-based strategy... the more convoluted the better. NIS releases in particular are great for that.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Mason, I hear ya. I'm writing you a Rx for a DS and Etrian Odyssey. Then you can get Etrian Odyssey 2 when you refill. Side effects include: flashbacks of fondness for the old style RPGs, elation, fixation with a degree of challenge that approaches complex but, suddenly stops short yielding only mild frustration. Play through and call me in the morning.

[Fuyukaze]

I often wonder that myself. My question though is why no one releases short RPGs anymore. Everything is sold as being massive 60+hr RPGs. 5-10hr RPGs may be too short, but who couldnt apreciate one that could be finished in 25-40hrs? Sadly, people want more game for their $$. Even if it means they grow bored to death with it and eventualy give up on it.

[debian4life]

My biggest complaint with the newer RPG's like FFXII is that they got away from the turn based fight system. I prefer to be able to strategize in between turns in a fight.

In regards to the length of the games, if the story is compelling enough it can take 200+ hours to complete.

With the popularity of World of Warcraft and Guild Wars, I hope that these manufacturers will still make games that are one player instead of MMO.

[Xizer]

RPGs have been doing away with all the annoying random battles these days and many no longer have those boring cutaway battles where everybody's standing around like a retard until you sift through a menu and select a command and then they animate an action and then stand around like retards again until you sift through the menu again and click on an action again, repeat over and over until the boring battle is over

Then you go through the game and do that thousands of times more

So... no, I think RPGs are way better these days because developers have realized that turn based battling is so god damn boring. In a day and age with high definition movies, awesome graphics, lots of spectacular effects in all the entertainment around you... putting up with a menu and a pause in the action half the time is so lame these days, and it just can't compete with the things around you that are a lot faster paced and more exciting.

Because these turn based battles have been gotten rid of, I think RPGs are actually simpler than in the past. I'd take Oblivion over some boring J-RPG any day.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

I remember the first time that I saw Shining Force on the Genesis. I thought that it was stupid that only the actual character that you were using earned any experience. I later grew to love the game and I wish that they made more of them. I greatly prefer turn based games since I do not have the reactions of a 10 year old with 15 fingers on a sugar rush. I also tried computer based RPGs, but some of them were so in depth that it wasn't funny. You had to choose what you wore or each arm and leg, what was in each hand, etc. That is why I was so happy to see Beggar Prince come out and once they fixed the problem with playing it on the X'Eye, I made sure to get a copy.

JY

[Mason P.]

I just feel that some of the magical systems are alittle indepth for my tastes. Does the
Dragon Quest 8 have a complicated system?

[Daria]

I just feel that some of the magical systems are alittle indepth for my tastes. Does the
Dragon Quest 8 have a complicated system?

Not at all. Just have to remember what the spell names are for.
example: Crack, Crackle, Kacrackle = three levels of ice
Sizz, Sizzle, Kasizzle = three levels of fire

Pretty straight foreword really.

[Ze_ro]

I can understand your concerns, but there are a lot of different RPG's out there, and not all of them are like that. If you don't like the more complicated ones, then just stick to the more simple ones.

Personally, I'd like to see RPG's make more strides in the realm of character customization. There are extremely few console RPG's that actually give you any control over how your character looks, or allow you to make any real choice in where the story goes aside from whether or not to take a sidequest, or which pre-programmed ending you get. I feel this takes most of the "role playing" out of the genre.

--Zero

[Nick Goracke]

"Does anybody feel that modern RPG's need to become more like Final Fantasy XII?" should have been the thread title.

There are 2 core problems with modern RPGs:

1) Those that try to emulate 8~16 bit RPGs with simplistic battle systems FAIL because they're so slow.

Battles are slower. Fade in, fancy camera work, choose attacks, watch lengthy battle animations, victory pose, battle summary screen, load map... what used to take 30 seconds now takes minutes, and when such repetitive and simplistic actions are drug out that long, it gets to be unbearable.

Story sequences are slower. Most writers are still telling the same contrived story with the same cliched characters... only with larger amounts of text, voice acting, and cinematics. The point is, again, that you can't take something predictable, make it last longer, and expect it to be enjoyable.

2) Those that try to innovate fail to make things more interesting... or: Complexity for complexity's sake. So much time is wasted in menus doing things that should be automatic. Unless Player A has the potential to make something dramatically different from Player B, and unless these differences dramatically alter the way the game is played, there's really no point in giving the illusion of customization. It's time wasted for minimal gain.

Unless the excuse is "Christmas release on a dying system", it's amazing how little fanfare Final Fantasy XII got. A developer finally found a way to eliminate the most repetitive part of RPGs while still allowing the player to intervene in "special" situations, and offered a customization scheme which can allow for a very unique player experience... and nobody noticed. And by "nobody noticed", I mean that years later, we still haven't seen anybody try to take that idea and run with it. If anything, we've seen a complete stagnation of the genre.