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Thread: SNES Jr. S-Video

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggyx View Post
    Really doubt it's the cable. It's pretty hard to seriously muck up spelling so simple. I don't have a single S-vid or component cable set that's OEM and I've never had a single issue. We're taking 2 wires in a plastic sheath.
    If it's just two wires in a plastic sheath then it's not good quality, it should have some shielding in there as well.

    Mitch

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    RCA cables generally use the ground as shielding whether they're eBay 1.99 cables or 200 dollar Monster rip-off wires. Seriously, there's not much to an RCA cable. It's pretty damned hard to fuck em up so severely that they're unusable.

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    Yeah but S-Video cables aren't RCA cables.

    Mitch

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    Ever cut one open?

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    Yep, I've built composite, S-Video and RGB cables.

    Mitch

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    Then you know S-video cables are essentially just 2 RCA cables in one sheath.

    So stop trying to split hairs, OK?


    wiggy

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    No they aren't; but this isn't helping the earlier poster with his problem.

    Mitch

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    RCA - 1 signal and 1 ground wire.



    S-Video - 2 signal and 2 ground wires.



    Please elaborate on how these are so significantly different from each other in terms of both construction and function.



    Alistair G., seeing as you're having this issue with so many different consoles across a variety of televisions/monitors, have you considered that there may be an exorbitant amount of stray RF signal or other interference close to these devices? It seems really odd that you're having these same, rather odd problems with so many devices.

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    Sigh.

    OK, the shielding in your pictures is decent quality which is what my original post is referring to.

    I think your terminology is what was throwing me off. RCA generally refers to the connector not the actual cable.

    To get back to my original point some third party cables use very little shielding (or ground wire if you prefer). The amount of shielding is what separates poor cables from quality cables. I've seen some where the shielding/ground wiring is basically just a thin wire.

    Mitch

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    Right. I just finished modding my SNES JR / Mini for RGB and temporarily soldered up wires from Blue on SNES MultiAV to Blue UP (pin 7 of SCART plug), from Composite Sync (SNES Multi-AV) to Composite Video (pin 20 of SCART plug), from +5V of SNES MultiAV to 99 Ohm resistor then to RGB mode pin (pin 16, of SCART plug), and linked pin 18 SCART plug (SCART plug pin 16's Ground) to SCART pin 17 (Composite Video Ground) then pin 17 of SCART to Ground of SNES MultiAV (pin 7 not pin 8) and hey presto I have a blue video playing of Zelda! No visible jail bars / diagonal lines yet, but then again this is only connected to my Sony 14" TV so far, just as a test.

    It's crisp and noise free, however I am getting smearing to the right and left of some of the video, which seems to be when other colors are present as well as blue.

    Next I'll wire up green and red and see what it looks like then test on my 29" TV and IN76 projector.

    UPDATE: Got R and G wired now as well. Connected up and no red! Darn, just discovered I have broken off pin 1 inside the MultiAV of the SNES plug on the cable (not the SNES multiAV socket thank goodness!). So connected a thin wire from RED on the header on the PCB that connects to the socket, and then to the plug! Just to test! And finally I get red.

    The RGB picture from my SNES 2 is far too strong. Works in my RGB SCART to S-Video converter when I turn down the brightness and contrast and color in the IN76 projector by a lot but is clipping badly when I try inputting the RGB into my Pioneer LX60D DVD / HDD recorder. Needs some resistors adding to a perf. board inside the case of the SNES 2.

    There is no smearing now that I have all 3 colors showing. Very low noise. The pj won't lock onto the signal directly (odd since it did from the Pioneer via SCART RGB in 50 and 60Hz. PJ takes Composite video from Pioneer AND RGB (C-Video for sync). Works. But pj won't lock onto SNES 2 (or large SNES) giving C-Video or C-Sync!! Odd.

    No diagonal lines on the RGB picture from the SNES 2. But moderate herringbone pattern on S-Video from the large SNES (down the same cable!), how annoying.

    Picture is fair sharpness on the SNES 2 (a little disappointing compared to the Composite picture's sharpness!) but very soft on the large old SNES.

    Frankly I think I prefer Composite from the SNES 2! It was noticeably sharper! Unless it's my RGB SCART to S-Video converter reducing the sharpness. But I have to use the converter, the pj won't lock onto the signal directly.

    Next I'll try to build one of those cheap RGB to Component converters that act like JROK ones ;-

    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...-video!/page10

    ...then maybe I can have a nice clean Component picture for my pj.

    UPDATE: Just tested my J S Technology RGB SCART to S-Video conveter with my LX60D on RGB, going into S-Video input of pj and I get no noise and no problems on vertical edges and no diagonal lines, and no herringbone pattern, and no loss of sharpness at all, this being on 60Hz but with PAL color encoding that the converter always gives out whether on 50 or 60Hz! Looks pretty good. However at 50Hz there is a little twitter / corruption / noise on vertical edges from the converter, which causes a slight loss of sharpness but only very slight.

    LX60D via RGB SCART straight into pj is perfect when I use RGB SCART into an adapter block (adapter block needed, since pj cannot accept SCART directly), and then feed the RGB into the pj, and use Composite Video from the LX60's own Composite Video socket (it needs C-Video to Sync because it only accepts SCART RGB with separate sync of C-Video (or C-Sync, I hope)). The picture is almost perfect, with some herringbone pattern on yellows at 50 and at 60Hz if I use the adapter block but get C-Video from the plug on the adapter block instead of on the LX60 itself.

    If I use the exact same cables for Component from LX60D to pj as I used for RGB SCART plus adapter block, I get a perfect picture on Component input of pj with no patterns at 50 or 60Hz. LX60D S-Video straight into pj is perfect with no patterns at 50 or 60Hz.

    Therefore the large SNES being rather blurred in RGB is a problem of the PPU inside it. Since the capacitors in the SNES NTSC USA style RGB cable may be acting as a low pass filter causing blurring for both SNES's, but the large SNES is rather blurred compared to the SNES 2 (JR / mini).

    I think I'm going to reduce greatly the value of the cap's in the SNES RGB cable and see if it reduces the blurring on either SNES's RGB output and I'll report back hopefully. The cap's on the RGB lines in the cable are 220uF at the moment.

    UPDATE 2: Noticed that if I use a thick SCART cable (JVC brand, shielded I imagine) with the RGB SCART to S-VIdeo Converter I get no herringbone pattern / diagonal lines until I change the cable to a thinner cheaper one, then I sometimes get moderate lines. But if I switch the converter off and back on the lines are almost gone even on the two cheap thin cables I have (and they stay almost gone!)! But there is still a tiny bit of diagonal lines if you look carefully and closely at the screen, whereas there are no lines at all with the JVC cable in 50Hz or 60Hz, it's a quality cable.

    Cheers,

    Alistair G.
    Last edited by Live_Steam_Mad; 08-27-2012 at 07:11 PM.

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    OK so I rewired as a test and connected the Luminance of the SNES to the Composite Video of SCART. Found that the quality of the Luminance signal from the large SNES is rather noisy unfortunately but at least there are no diagonal lines in it at all. It's averagely sharp. There's absolutely no color in it to contaminate the signal, I checked, it's a totally black and white image.

    Fortunately the quality of the Luminance from the SNES 2 (JR / Mini) is rather better. This time no noise or diagonal lines, using the same wiring. It's also absolutely color free. It's rather sharper than the luminance from the large SNES, and at least as sharp as the Composite output of the SNES 2. At least that bodes well.

    Therefore it would appear to be something odd with the Chrominance that is giving me a problem with diagonal lines? I'm having a think about how to check that next. UPDATE: I just tried connecting Chrominance from SNES MultiAV to Composite Video of SCART. I can't get any slightest picture out of it at all, on either SNES. Checked that Composite input was working on pj and it was with other sources but no picture from either SNES. Checked to see I hadn't damaged either SNES by later connecting to a cheap 3rd party SNES Composite cable, and both SNES's are fine. Large SNES gives blurred Composite Video picture but reasonably clean picture but with slight noise but no diagonal lines. SNES 2 gives sharper picture but with a little more noise but no diagonal lines in Composite. Had a suspicion that Chrominance was maybe really actually Composite Video on one or both SNES's, causing the diagonal interference, but in reality both SNES's do seem to be giving just straight chrominance as they should do. No idea why I get the diagonal lines in S-Video.

    Maybe it's a Ground issue, I'll experiment with the ground pins next.

    I have no diagonal lines on S-Video from my PS1, or PS2 or Pioneer LX60D DVD / HDD recorder, either on my 29" TV or IN76 pj. I only got diagonal lines from my 2 SNES's in S-Video.

    If I can afford it, I will invest in a genuine Nintendo RGB cable (Japanese Super Famicom cable for the RGB21 socket, the Jap version of SCART but with different pinout, but the SNES end is compatible with my NTSC USA SNES's, I'll need an adapter to handle the RGB21 to SCART). I will also try to get a genuine Nintendo S-Video cable for SNES. Also I plan to get an NTSC GameCube and RGB cable and S-Video cable for it, and see if I get the lines or not! Since GameCube uses the same MultiAV as SNES.

    Regards,

    Alistair G.
    Last edited by Live_Steam_Mad; 08-28-2012 at 01:48 AM.

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    Well I tried adding a 220uF cap on each of the Luminance and Chrominance like someone on NFG Games forum suggested (7,8 of MultiAV into S-Video bare plug) and it made bog all difference. S-Video from both SNES's is still diagonally totally line-tastic on yellows and blues on the 29" TV (I'll test on the IN76 pj later on). This sucks big time.

    I know it's not the TV or pj since both give me perfect pictures on the Pioneer LX60D in PAL 50Hz, my chipped UK PS1 and my chipped UK PS2 when playing NTSC USA games at 60Hz, via S-Video. If anyone has any contructive suggestions I'm be happy to hear from them.

    Hey hang on a minute, I wonder if it's the color encoding... just remembered that my RGB SCART to S-Video converter is PAL encoded color output only, at both 50Hz and 60Hz. I can't remember what the PS1 and PS2 give out when on S-Video. If they are all PAL encoding and I only get lines on the 2 SNES's, then it maybe be NTSC color encoded S-Video that my TV and pj don't like. I'll test this and report back.

    UPDATE: I just tested ;-

    1) Composite @ 50Hz 625 lines w/ PAL 4.43MHz
    2) Composite @60Hz 525 lines w/ NTSC 3.58MHz
    3) Composite @60Hz 525 lines w/ PAL 4.43MHz
    4) S-Video @ 50Hz 625 lines w/ PAL 4.43MHz
    5) S-Video @60Hz 525 lines w/ NTSC 3.58MHz
    6) S-Video @60Hz 525 lines w/ PAL 4.43MHz
    7) RGB SCART via adapter block w/separate sync (C-Video) @ 50Hz 625 lines
    8 ) RGB SCART via adapter block w/separate sync (C-Video) @60Hz 525 lines
    9) Component (sync on green) @ 50Hz 625 lines
    10) Component (sync on green) @60Hz 525 lines

    ...all from my Pioneer LX60D DVD / HDD recorder, direct into my IN76 projector, and NONE of them gave me any diagonal lines. S-Video was perfectly line free. I'll have a look at both PS1 and PS2 next.

    UPDATE 2: My chipped FAT UK model SCPH-30003 R PS2 has a perfectly diagonal line free picture via S-Video into my IN76 pj, with the genuine Sony S-Video PS3 cable, when playing USA 60Hz games, and always outputs with PAL encoding @ 4.43MHz but with 525 lines, @60Hz interlaced.

    These games had a perfect picture in S-Video on my pj ;-

    Burnout NTSC USA @60Hz
    Colin McRae Rally 3 NTSC USA @60Hz
    Colin McRae Rally 3 UK PAL @50Hz
    Gran Turismo 3 NTSC USA @60Hz
    Gran Turismo 4 NTSC USA @60Hz
    Gran Turismo Concept UK PAL @50Hz
    MotorStorm Arctic Edge NTSC USA @60Hz
    Need For Speed Carbon UK PAL @50Hz
    Network Startup Disc
    OutRun (Remake) NTSC Japan @60Hz - but slight banding on the large blue sky
    Pro Rally UK PAL @50Hz
    Sega Rally 2 (2006) NTSC Japan @60Hz
    Sega Rally Championship NTSC Japan @60Hz
    Tomb Raider Anniversary UK PAL @50Hz widescreen
    Tomb Raider Legend NTSC USA @60Hz widescreen

    However in Colin McRae Rally 04 and 05, both 50Hz versions, in PAL, there were herringbone patterns everywhere (Later EDIT: I am seeing the same thing in RGB and Component from Slim PS2, and FAT PS2 in RGB), but the really wierd thing was when I tried Colin McRae Rally 03 in 50Hz in PAL, and GT Concept in 50Hz in PAL, and Need For Speed Carbon in 50Hz in PAL, there was a perfect picture! In Richard Burns Rally in 50Hz in PAL there was a clear screen (intro graphics) BUT full screen dither pattern at all times during the game!! All this played from a HDD via HDLoader v0.8c, and via S-Video. I tested them all twice to make sure. Need to check some more games... and my PS1...

    UPDATE: Tried my PS1 in S-Video in nearly all my games, I get a perfect picture via S-Video on my pj at all times, when it's outputting 625 lines @50Hz in PAL 4.43MHz, or when it's outputting 525 lines @60Hz with NTSC color encoding at 3.58MHz.

    UPDATE 3: Wow, finally solved the stupid diagonal lines and wavy vague lines problem on my PS1 / Fat and slim PS2 in RGB, it wasn't the cable, it was when I take Composite Video (pj needs C-Video to sync, i.e. separate sync) from a SCART adapter block that I have to use to get the signal into the projector. When I use the separate Composite Video from half way along the PlayStation RGB cable itself, I finally have a perfect RGB picture on the PSX (PS1)!!

    UPDATE 4: Oh dear, I can't use that above technique with the genuine Sony Component PS3 cable used as RGB cable since there is no Composite Video to tap off for Sync.

    Now if only I could solve the SNES problem and all my consoles would be perfect .

    Regards,

    ARG
    Last edited by Live_Steam_Mad; 09-30-2012 at 03:17 PM.

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    PS2 Fat and PS2 Slim both have no noise and no lines in RGB SCART with this cheap cable now, fortunately.

    Regards,

    ARG
    Last edited by Live_Steam_Mad; 08-31-2012 at 10:50 PM.

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    OK this is weird... when I try my chipped PS1 UK model 7500 with the cheap 3rd party PSX RGB SCART cable that I have, I can only get the boot rom screen (Sony / PS logo) to appear on my pj (in 625 lines / 50Hz), I get NO in game picture at all no matter what game I try with it, either from my PAL PS1 games or my NTSC USA PS1 games. No matter where I get C-Video (for sync) from. Any idea what the heck is going on?

    UPDATE: I think there are maybe 2 explanations for this... either my pj doesn't like the RGB from my PSX (even though it works perfectly with my Slim or Fat PS2 (with PS2 games) and Pioneer LX60D in RGB mode at 525 lines @60Hz or 625 lines @50Hz), or my PS1 mod chip is causing some problem.

    At first I thought it was because maybe the PSX changes to Composite Sync when in RGB mode, but then again it hasn't got any "mode", it's giving out RGB ALL the time, same as the PS2 Slim and Fat, (except when PS2 is in Component), and PSX is giving out Composite Video at all times (I checked) in 576i or 480i, with all my PS1 PAL or NTSC USA games, so it can't be that causing it.

    BTW, this made me realise that maybe the reason that I can't get a picture out of my RGB NES on my IN76 pj is because maybe my pj can't handle C-Sync in RGB mode, it maybe only accepts C-Video as sync in RGB, hence the reason for no picture (I have to use the RGB SCART to S-Video converter instead), it's maybe because the RGB PPU doesn't have C-Video anymore, only C-Sync instead.

    The same thing does NOT happen on my Fat chipped PS2 UK model SCPH 30003 R with my PS2 games, I get an RGB SCART picture on all my PS2 games (either NTSC USA ones or PAL UK ones). Same with my Slim non-chipped PS2.

    Cheers,

    Alistair G.
    Last edited by Live_Steam_Mad; 09-12-2012 at 04:40 AM.

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    I can't test whether there is no picture from either my Slim unchipped PS2 or my Fat mod chipped PS2 in RGB with my PS1 NTSC games, since the Slim won't let me play NTSC USA games (because it's not chipped) even when softmodded to play PS2 backups via ESR patch (since I don't think you can ESR patch PS1 games?!), and the Fat PS2 will only let me read PS1 discs when I disable the mod chip, which then won't let me read games from another region (since it then acts like an unchipped PS2!). And I can't put PS1 games onto USB stick and try them in the Slim like I can do with PS2 games on the Slim, and I can't put PS1 games onto the HDD of the Fat PS2 since it uses the PS1 CPU for HDD access when you are in PS2 mode!

    In addition I get NO picture from my pj when using the Fat chipped PS2 or Slim unchipped UK PS2 model SCPH-70003 in RGB mode when using PAL original PS1 discs, in either Component or RGB, when the game starts. I only get a picture in the boot screen logo and sometimes in a video before the game. However I get a Composite Video picture at all times with PAL PS1 discs in either my Fat or Slim PS2's. So PS2 is acting like my PS1 in this case. But of course I get a picture using PS2 games in Component and RGB.

    I notice that the RGB picture from both PS1 and PS2 Phat is noticeably sharper than the S-Video picture (which is already pretty sharp).

    Just ordered an original genuine Sony PS3 Component cable (compatible with PS2) from Amazon USA (it was 1/2 the price of the UK one) and will see how I get on with that, looking to hopefully get the sharpness of RGB that I get on the Fat PS2, but in Component on my PS2's.

    Regards,

    ARG
    Last edited by Live_Steam_Mad; 09-30-2012 at 03:07 PM.

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    Update on the above I posted :- Noticed that my chipped PS2 cannot be set to Component video out, only RGB (screen does not go green or alter at all when I change it to Component in the System Configuration menu), maybe because of the mod chip. BUT my UK unchipped Slim PS2 SCPH-70003 will freely change between RGB and Component, and my pj accepts Component from it very nicely.

    RGB SCART from my PS2 Slim, taking C-Video as sync half way along the cable from the C-Video socket on the RGB cable, looks nearly perfect in 625 lines @50Hz with only sometimes faint diagonal lines on some colors, and totally perfect 525 lines @60Hz, and no noise or wavy lines, using the same cheap 3rd party RGB cable as I used with PS2 Fat. Not quite as sharp as the PS2 Fat though on RGB, about the same sharpness as S-Video from the PS2 Fat.

    Component from my Slim is pretty nice in 625 lines @50Hz with only very faint diagonal lines on certain colors, but at 525 lines @60Hz has some problems with quite a bit stronger diagonal lines on some colors, but there is no noise or wavy lines, again using the same cheap 3rd party RGB cable as I used with PS2 Fat . However if I remove the C-Video from the socket half way along the RGB cable (RGB cable becomes Component in Component video mode on the PS2) then the 625 lines @ 50Hz picture's faint diagonal lines become noticeably more pronounced, and the 525 lines @ 60Hz picture becomes a diagonal line tastic picture, not good, even though my Pioneer LX60D gives me a perfect picture in Component on this pj using the same cables when in 525 lines @60Hz. Again this Slim via Component is not quite as sharp as the PS2 Fat was though on RGB, about the same sharpness as S-Video from the PS2 Fat.

    RGB through my Fat PS2 is basically perfect, in both 625 lines @50Hz, and at 525 lines @60Hz, I can't see any problems with diagonal lines on colors, or noise, or wavy lines, when using C-Video 1/2 way along the cheap 3rd party RGB cable as sync for my IN76 projector. Can't switch the Fat PS2 to Component because of the mod chip, and PS1 won't give out Component.

    Regards,

    ARG
    Last edited by Live_Steam_Mad; 08-31-2012 at 11:04 PM.

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    Default Many thanks, OP

    Just wanted to chime in and say that I followed the information found in this thread and I have a very nice SNS-101 outputting S-Video

    My only regret is not having used a smaller PCB board. It was a bit tricky to get the console back together.

    I didn't use this particular console much before I modified it, so its tough to say... Is it possible something I did would make it so that the RESET button would no longer function?

    When I press it, it "sort of" resets. Meaning, the screen appears to "interrupt", just slightly. But clearly, a reset doesn't happen.

    I don't consider this a problem, but part of me is definitely curious as to why it won't reset any more.

    Anyways, thanks again, this thread was great, and I'm very happy with the video quality that the modification produces on a SNS-101. For added bonus points I am using SOVIET-era resistors and caps that a co-worker gave me

    EDIT: Some other stuff I learned: Use a 15w soldering iron. At first I was using a 30W iron, and lets just say I ran into some issues (I killed a console ). Use 22AWG wire, put some FLUX on the end of the wire so that you can get a good, strong connection. Do like the pictures do! Cover up all of the other pins using electrical tape. It may take a while, but its WORTH it.
    Last edited by drewjacks0n; 09-20-2012 at 09:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drewjacks0n View Post
    Just wanted to chime in and say that I followed the information found in this thread and I have a very nice SNS-101 outputting S-Video
    Good. Can I ask please what size and type of TV you are using? My reset works just fine but I have horrid obvious diagonal lines on my SNS-101 (SNES JR / mini) S-Video picture on both 29" Sony CRT and my pj (but no lines on my Composite output from this console). Maybe I should do the complete mod and make up the little circuit board as well, maybe that has something to do with getting rid of the lines?

    Can you put on Zelda ALTTP title screen and tell me if the 3 large yellow triangles have lines on them in S-Video?

    Regards,

    Alistair G.
    Last edited by Live_Steam_Mad; 09-21-2012 at 02:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Live_Steam_Mad View Post
    Maybe I should do the complete mod and make up the little circuit board as well, maybe that has something to do with getting rid of the lines?
    I build the mod right on the PCB, no trouble with lines. Are you grounding directly to the RGB chip? Aftermarket power supply?
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    Default quality test and questions about a second console I tried to modify

    Quote Originally Posted by Live_Steam_Mad View Post
    Can you put on Zelda ALTTP title screen and tell me if the 3 large yellow triangles have lines on them in S-Video?.
    Allstair, a video of Zelda "Link to the Past" title screen: http://youtu.be/uNLZ2FFgJg0

    One thing I notice is that on areas where text is white on a black background, I usually see some form of what could be described as drop shadow, but it looks like 'interference'. Anyone know what that is? I've seen it on two different SNES Jrs now. I was thinking its either my TV or the Cable I'm using.

    I did realize, after my initial post that I had damaged the 220uf Capacitor when I put the case back together. It was causing graphical glitches that would appear when the console was bumped. I opened everything back up and I found that if I tapped the capacitor that I would see all sorts of lines/interference hit the display. I ALSO noticed I had the polarity backwards, oops!

    Went down to Fry's, got a brand new cap (this one was 25v rated, thats all they had), I replaced the damaged cap, and now everything looks pretty darn good. The video above is a POST "repair" video.

    I obtained another SNS-101 console, and while I was at Fry's I attempted to buy the same parts to do another mod. The soldering went really well and everything is nicely constructed but the video output is very washed out. Reds are barely visible. I know its not the 220 capacitor at fault, so that leaves me with the resistors or the 100nf capacitor that's causing the problem. I got the previous parts from a co worker of mine, who happens to be russian. His parts are from the soviet area (military grade, he says). I got to be honest, right now they look a whole lot better than the resistors and cap I got at frys.

    I'm suspicious that the guy at Fry's might have done some math incorrectly. The packaging was confusing (I'm a total noob, keep in mind) for the ceramic capacitor. It didn't just simply read "100nf" so i ended up with a package that reads:

    "100000PF 50V" They are ceramic, of similar size to what I used last time and read "104Z" on the shell. I don't know if these are the source of my washed-out colors, or if it is the resistors I picked up.

    They just said 75ohm 2% (I think).

    I guess one other possibility is that the solder isn't well connected at one of my joints. Would that cause "dull" and "washed out" colors? I don't know. I thought all the solder went well. Used flux and got nice shiny joints.

    I'm just rambling at this point

    TL;DR
    I mod'd a second console and the colors are washed out. Did I use the wrong parts?

    signing off.
    Last edited by drewjacks0n; 09-23-2012 at 04:42 AM.

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