SquareEnix kills Chrono Trigger Fangame at 98% completion

[TonyTheTiger]

EULAs and stuff have not had extensive testing in the courts. We really don't know how far they can go. One day the courts might say "yeah, everything written in an EULA is perfectly enforceable" or they might say "it's enforceable but only to a point."

As for patches to existing games, that's a toughie. I can't find any cases (during my 5 minutes worth of searching just now) that address this. But there are cases that might have some relevance.

The motion picture industry sued Sony years back because of VHS and Betamax. Their argument was that Sony's manufacturing of recording devices allowed the end user to infringe on their copyrights by taping the programs. The court concluded that it was fine to sell VCRs because they serve substantial non-infringing purposes. What that means is Sony can sell a product that can be used for copyright infringement so long as that's not the only or primary purpose.

I'm not sure if that covers software but if it does then you would ask whether or not a software patch serves non-infringing purposes. I'm not sure it does.

But there's a theory called "market failure" that helped lead to the Sony decision. In the Sony case you’d want to allow fair use because the individuals using the VCRs are unlikely to be in a position to negotiate for a license with the television networks. The courts aren't blind to real world logic and good public policy like this. It's why thumbnails of images are not copyright violations even though they technically fit the definition. So perhaps it's good public policy to allow some software patches?

There's also a case called "Sony v. Connectix." In this case, the court said that making copies of a computer program for the purpose of reverse engineering might be permissible. So perhaps a patch could eke by by stretching this, especially since the patch itself technically doesn't use anything from the original (which is always a helpful fact for the defendant in a copyright claim).

Fair Use would be a good place to start.

There's a four part test to determine whether something falls under Fair Use:

1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. The nature of the copyrighted work;
3. Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.


The third prong is highly in favor of the patch creator since nothing of the original (at least I would imagine none) is actually being used. Of course using the patch in any way requires the entirety of the CT rom...so...yeah. But the fourth prong is really what's at stake here since it could really screw up SquareEnix's financial interest in Chrono Trigger. For example, if somebody releases a patch that turns a $20 piece of software into a free piece of software, that's going to really hurt the copyright holder. This patch isn't quite doing that but it could hurt the financial viability of the CT brand.

[Sonicwolf]

Pretty much every End User License Agreement that comes with every piece of software (except open source stuff) makes it clear that you can't make modifications to the software. It's pretty much a standard condition to using any piece of software.

It also basically states that no one else is allowed to touch or look at the game and your not allowed to sell it and lend it out.

[Kitsune Sniper]

It also basically states that no one else is allowed to touch or look at the game and your not allowed to sell it and lend it out.

Uh, not always. Most EULAs allow selling the software if everything gets transferred to the new owner, including packaging, discs, and all paperwork (and in certain cases, the license must be transferred via a written document.)

[Nature Boy]

Does anyone know this: do most big publishers have their own legal departments, or do they procure 3rd party legal assistance?

[exit]

It sucks that this happened to them, but I really don't see what the problem is. They were using copyrighted material and the owners of said material told them to stop. It may be a dick move by SE to stop them at the finish line, but it's their property, it's not like stuff like this hasn't happened before.

I remember a few years back when someone was doing a translation for Rondo of Blood and Konami notified him to stop, so the guy stopped and even stated that he understood why they told him to. Luckily he wasn't that far into the translation, but it's the same thing nonetheless.

[kupomogli]

I remember a few years back when someone was doing a translation for Rondo of Blood and Konami notified him to stop, so the guy stopped and even stated that he understood why they told him to. Luckily he wasn't that far into the translation, but it's the same thing nonetheless.

Konami didn't wait until both projects were almost entirely finished. Konami also has did something with the franchise, like actually releasing Rondo of Blood in English(although as an unlockable on the remake.)

I don't expect Square to do anything with the Chrono Trigger franchise. I don't expect them to do anything with the Ogre Battle franchise, either. They already have the Final Fantasy series, Front Mission, SaGa, and Seiken Densetsu. Those are really the only long running series the company has and it makes me doubt they'll expand on any others. I know there's also Kingdom Hearts, but technically it's included under the Final Fantasy fanboy sub category(I'm also only talking about the Squaresoft IP's, not including Enix's which Dragon Quest is really the only long running series -- Soul Blazer/Illusion of Gaia/Terranigma isn't long running.)

[kainemaxwell]

Does anyone know this: do most big publishers have their own legal departments, or do they procure 3rd party legal assistance?

I always figured the really big names would have their own legal departments (Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, etc) and smaller ones would have 3rd party legal outsourcing.

[Leo_A]

I'm pretty sure he'll say it's not "law", therefore it's not enforceable with fines or jailtime, even though it is.

Your acting annoyed at someone trying to have a friendly debate on the matter, or at least that's the impression I've gotten from your last few post. I'm not in this to frusturate anyone, I don't even like Chrono Trigger so I wouldn't want to download this anyways.

At the risk of irritating you further, I never said it was one way or the other, or that you were flat out incorrect. You very well might be correct with all your statements, I'm just not convinced. I was just casting doubt that it's the case and trying to apply what I've experienced with modding racing simulations in the PC community to the emulation scene. Plus I just like having debates...

And as has been stated before, EULA's haven't been extensively tested in the court room and I doubt there was a EULA attached to Chrono Trigger that prohibits modifications, though its been years since I've closely looked at a SuperNes game manual so I might be remembering incorrectly. I highly doubt they forsaw something like this happening over a decade ago and I doubt it went much beyond pirating, limitations of renting, etc.

Edit - I can't even find anything beyond warranty information in SuperNes manuals. Would the EULA information be in the precautions booklet every game shipped with? Or did they just not go beyond describing the warranty the game has? Unless its in that precautions booklet, theres absolutely nothing in the SuperNes manuals I've checked that prohibit this.

Edit Again - Was checking manuals for games that came out very early in the SuperNes's lifecycle, here's one from Super Mario All-Stars that appears pretty universal for later releases.

"IMPORTANT

Warning: Copying of any Nintendo game is illegal and is strictly prohibited by
domestic and international copyright laws. "Back-up" or "archival" copies are
not authorized and are not nessary to protect your software. Violators will be
prosecuted.

This Nintendo game is not designed for use with any unauthorized copying
device. Use of any such device will invalidate your Nintendo product warranty.
Nintendo (and/or any Nintendo licensee or distributor) is not responsible for
any damage or loss caused by the use of any such device. If use of such device
causes your game to stop operating, disconnect the device carefully to avoid
damage and resume normal game play. If your game ceases to operate and you
have no device attached to it, please contact your local authorized Nintendo
retailer.

The contents of this notice do not interfere with your statutory rights.

This manual and other printed matter accompanying this game are protected by
domestic and international copyright laws.

The rental of this game without permission of Nintendo or its licensees is
strictly prohibited."

So where is it? I've yet to see any evidence that its illegal to modify software, unless it's for clearly illegal purposes like enabling piracy. It's not in the EULA. In fact, from what I've seen, its only been protected like the successful Game Genie lawsuit that Nintendo lost in court. Show me a law that suggest its illegal, since I've had no luck locating one.

[NayusDante]

My original release of FF Chronicles has no license agreement, no EULA, or anything beyond "unauthorized copying, rental, public performance is a violation of applicable laws."

Since the Japanese ROM is on the disc as "ROM.BIN," one only needs to copy the file to their hard drive and apply the patch. This is identical to ripping music to your hard drive.

[Jorpho]

How about this? Build the patch into an executable that asks the user to insert an FF Chronicles CD, and then calculates a hash to verify the CD's authenticity before letting the user play.

Of course, it wouldn't stop someone from using a copy of the CD, and someone would inevitably hack the executable to remove the check, and of course the whole question is moot if one is going to call into question the legality of making the patch in the first place.

[kupomogli]

Warning: Copying of any Nintendo game is illegal and is strictly prohibited by
domestic and international copyright laws. "Back-up" or "archival" copies are
not authorized and are not nessary to protect your software. Violators will be
prosecuted.

This is easy to get around. Someone else copied it. I own a physical copy of Chrono Trigger so I downloaded it. :P

"Your honor, we find the defendant, not guilty." "Kajar Laboratories: Rejected! And now we will proceed uploading Crimson Echoes." "Romhacking.net: In your face!! Can you feel that, can you feel it?" "Everyone else: Oooooooooooo."

Atleast that would be nice if that's what happened. But it's obvious romhacking.net nor the creators want to attempt to cross that line.

Also, Romhacking.net "destroyed all known copies of Crimson Echoes." Has anyone downloaded any beta versions previously from the main site or were there none?

[SegaAges]

Yeeeeeaaaaaah!

OOOOOOKKKKKKKK!

[TonyTheTiger]

Also, Romhacking.net "destroyed all known copies of Crimson Echoes."

Something tells me that's not true. I know that if I made something like that I would at least keep it for myself.

They could get around this if the data were actually stolen from them. But that would be a hard sell. "Yeah, seriously. My computer was stolen/hacked and the thief uploaded the file onto a popular torrent site. I swear!" To say that comes off as insincere would be a gross understatement but if it did happen (or is set up to look like it happened) then Square Enix would pretty much be SOL.

[Leo_A]

Or just wait 5 years, visit your local public library and sit down at a PC and upload it while making sure it doesn't retain the title screen and name you had previousily announced and anything included in screenshots you had posted. Even better yet, visit a library while on vacation somewhere and then it won't even appear as it came from the same area you reside in.

If they really wanted this to come out, it would be easy and simple enough to do so down the road without any links to yourself. But they seem content to not release it and just attract some attention, so I'm sure its been permanently shelved, especially if they can't gain anything from its release.

[Gameguy]

They either shouldn't have said anything publicly until it was completely finished, or asked directly for permission before they started. There's other hacks of Chrono Trigger out there though, some are pretty funny.

Chrono Trigger: Pervert version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYdNUUwfLyY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KdOhrt-rvI

[Melf]

So where is it? I've yet to see any evidence that its illegal to modify software, unless it's for clearly illegal purposes like enabling piracy. It's not in the EULA. In fact, from what I've seen, its only been protected like the successful Game Genie lawsuit that Nintendo lost in court. Show me a law that suggest its illegal, since I've had no luck locating one.

There's been precedent for the illegality of modifcation a game without permission for almost 30 years. Here are some cases:

- Chips made by Artic International that made Pac-Man run faster. Midway sued Artic in 1982, and a Chicago court ruled that the modification was illegal.

- Nintendo's case against Galoob. Though Nintendo lost, it was the first high profile case against derivative works. The only reason Galoob won was because none of the modifications remained when the Game Genie was shut off.

- The recent case in the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals against three programmers who created a free, open source program for use with products made by Blizzard that allowed multi-player games without the use of Battle.net. The programmers lost.

As for using the ROM as a patch:

- Micro Stars was sued by GT Interactive, 3D Realms, and the original developer of Duke Nukem (Formgen) over its release of Nuke It!, which added user-created levels to Duke Nukem 3D. Judge Alex Kozinski ruled that only the original developer had the right to create a sequel of a property unless authorization had been given, even if they included level-building tools in the game itself! Micro Star was liable for contributory infringement - they provided the means for others to violate copyright.

So, there you have 3 cases where modification was struck down as illegal by the courts, and one that set up a precedent for future cases. Granted, this is going to vary by scenario and even by state, but there is clear precedent for Square's actions, and I would wager good money that they would win in court if the case ever got there.

[swlovinist]

I've been following this for the past few days. While the news doesn't really affect me, not that big on Chrono Trigger, it just validates my dislike for Square in general. It's a dick move and a big fuck-you to obviously hard-core fans of the series.

Completely agree. I just dont get why companies do this kind of shit. Its like Lucasarts going after a fan movie of Star Wars. This game was to honor and possibly generate sales for the company. I for one will just personally speak with my wallet and buy all square games used from now on. They lost a customer for this move.

[Kitsune Sniper]

There's been precedent for the illegality of modifcation a game without permission for almost 30 years. Here are some cases:

*cut for space*

THANK YOU.

[Wolfrider31]

What exactly is the difference between this and a 12 year old sitting on his computer making an RPG with ripped Chrono Trigger sprites? Is Square claiming that their IP rights allows them to stop hobbyists from making derivative content for their own use?

If they are, I've got some news for them - they don't have any legal rights when it comes to that. They might (MIGHT) be able to argue that the scope of the project counted as distribution but that's highly unlikely.

The developers should have stood up for themselves. They had every legal right to take this project on and release it for non-commercial purposes. This isn't piracy... it's not a violation of Square's IP... it presents no threat to their business. This is the video game equivalent of Harry Potter fanfiction.

[Kitsune Sniper]

The developers should have stood up for themselves. They had every legal right to take this project on and release it for non-commercial purposes. This isn't piracy... it's not a violation of Square's IP... it presents no threat to their business. This is the video game equivalent of Harry Potter fanfiction.

Didn't Rowling (or rather, her publishers) try to go against fanfic writers at one point?