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Thread: who owns any unreleased undumped games

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    I don't get the mentality of buying up some rare, unreleased game and then making it your sole goal to ensure the ROM isn't dumped. You can bitch about "ruining the value" but that's complete shit and everyone knows it. Emulation hasn't done a damn thing to curb the value of much anything. Not that most of these people ever plan to sell them anyway. You can claim you want to hold onto them but eventually those old EPROM chips will lose their data and you'll have a cartridge with nothing on it.

    Seems if I was going to buy some prototype of an unreleased game and make sure it's never dumped, I'd put vids on Youtube of the carts being destroyed. If you're going to be a dick about ROM dumping then go all out.

    I'd love to find some proto of an unreleased game. Say... Lobo for SNES. I'd track down a ROM dumper and send it to them so fast the anti-ROM collectors would put a contract out on me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diosoth View Post
    I don't get the mentality of buying up some rare, unreleased game and then making it your sole goal to ensure the ROM isn't dumped. You can bitch about "ruining the value" but that's complete shit and everyone knows it. Emulation hasn't done a damn thing to curb the value of much anything. Not that most of these people ever plan to sell them anyway. You can claim you want to hold onto them but eventually those old EPROM chips will lose their data and you'll have a cartridge with nothing on it.

    Seems if I was going to buy some prototype of an unreleased game and make sure it's never dumped, I'd put vids on Youtube of the carts being destroyed. If you're going to be a dick about ROM dumping then go all out.

    I'd love to find some proto of an unreleased game. Say... Lobo for SNES. I'd track down a ROM dumper and send it to them so fast the anti-ROM collectors would put a contract out on me.
    I've dumped every prototype I own, released or otherwise. I just don't give out the ROM because it will completely devalue the prototype/my investment. I'm in the process of reproducing one of my unreleased prototypes, and it will be available in the next two weeks (Link: http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/mes...threadid=19042). This way I get to release the game to the public, and protect my investment. It's win-win. The ROM is preserved, I get to keep a one of a kind prototype, and I don't have to give handouts to people like you who are not willing to take the risk of the initial investment. I plan to do this with all of my prototypes, it just takes some time (and lots of money). I have two more releases that I plan putting out within the year.

    Unreleased prototypes do lose value due to emulation. There are countless examples of this happening in the past (Hit the Ice, Crossfire, Squashed, Bashi Bazooka, ect.). Once the game is dumped the proto goes from being worth thousands, to being worth hundreds. It's easy for you to piss and moan when you don't have any prototypes. If you're interested in buying a proto, thus putting your money where your mouth is, send me a PM and I can make it happen. I would assume your hostility is a result of jealousy, but I could be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewCallis View Post
    You can see them here:
    http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/s...es-unreleased/

    $1250.00USD isn't too bad since it has the letter... might take you up on that.
    I used to be a staff member at unseen 64, well I still am But I never find anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    you can have this one for $1250.oo

    Shadowhawk for SNES comes with a letter from an Image Comics employee

    How much would I have to pay for you to leak some screenshots/video?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diosoth View Post
    I don't get the mentality of buying up some rare, unreleased game and then making it your sole goal to ensure the ROM isn't dumped. You can bitch about "ruining the value" but that's complete shit and everyone knows it. Emulation hasn't done a damn thing to curb the value of much anything. Not that most of these people ever plan to sell them anyway. You can claim you want to hold onto them but eventually those old EPROM chips will lose their data and you'll have a cartridge with nothing on it.

    Seems if I was going to buy some prototype of an unreleased game and make sure it's never dumped, I'd put vids on Youtube of the carts being destroyed. If you're going to be a dick about ROM dumping then go all out.

    I'd love to find some proto of an unreleased game. Say... Lobo for SNES. I'd track down a ROM dumper and send it to them so fast the anti-ROM collectors would put a contract out on me.
    You know what bud. Think whatever you want. I really don't care. A sealed SNES copy of EVO just sold for 2000. My asking price has not gone up in all this time. All the other rare Nintendo items I have had have gone up in value and I consider this a collectors item. I am a collector and given the choice between this a sealed copy of EVO I'd rather have this.

    While we are on the subject of crap. What I think is crap is all the people who think the game just HAS to be released so the masses can play and enjoy it. I bring this same game to the CCAG game show in Cleveland every year and let everyone know I have it there for play. NO ONE has ever wanted to play it. Next show is Saturday this coming Saturday as in tomorrow. I'll try it again. I bring several undumped unreleased games every year and no one ever cares.

    After someone does dump it (and I am sure it will happen if you are patient) it will get a write up somewhere on the forums with some posts and some attention. People will play it once or twice and then forget about it. It looks great as an unwrapped christmas present but after you open it and find another pair of socks no one cares.

    It will be dumped. Someone will release it. It just won't be me. Thinking ahead I had the original owner write this letter for me so it would still retain some collectable value after it was dumped. It will still be one of a kind and might even be worth 400-600 in that condition. Not a bad drop in price when you consider that the sealed EVO would be worth what 100-200 if you opened it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellfire View Post
    How much would I have to pay for you to leak some screenshots/video?
    Free just come to the CCAG show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    Free just come to the CCAG show.
    I might be able to show up, just give me some more info about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellfire View Post
    I might be able to show up, just give me some more info about it
    it is tomorrow.

    www.ccagshow.com

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    Alright, i got a lot of requests to see some of this stuff. Wasn't as much in the $20 as i thought, but there are a few titles. You guys missed out when i sold about 50 betas last year for $3 each...

    http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show....php?p=1560804

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    Diosoth: You are pretty freaking naive to say the least. Anyone who collects protos KNOWS the value goes down on unreleased games when they are dumped. No one is talking about emulation with released games.

    You don't collect protos. Some of us do. Stick to things you know instead of assumptions. I am sick of people trying to make false statements about things.

    And not to brag about it, but I do have a Lobo unreleased proto, albeit for Genesis. I have no idea if there is one on the web, but I know mine is not released.

    Also, people like you have a habit of saying "horders" don't dump things. They ARE dumped, just not released for free.

    How anyone can complain about something for $1200 that is one of a kind, but pay thousands more for shrinkwrap is beyond me. It's just another classic example of someone who has no idea wtf he is talking about.

    Most of us will release stuff if we get some money back that we paid, but I'm not paying $1000 for something and dumping it for free. That's stupid. If you think it's not, then give me your car. I need it more than you. Give me your possessions. I'm not paying for someone else's entertainment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diosoth View Post
    I don't get the mentality of buying up some rare, unreleased game and then making it your sole goal to ensure the ROM isn't dumped. You can bitch about "ruining the value" but that's complete shit and everyone knows it. Emulation hasn't done a damn thing to curb the value of much anything. Not that most of these people ever plan to sell them anyway. You can claim you want to hold onto them but eventually those old EPROM chips will lose their data and you'll have a cartridge with nothing on it.

    Seems if I was going to buy some prototype of an unreleased game and make sure it's never dumped, I'd put vids on Youtube of the carts being destroyed. If you're going to be a dick about ROM dumping then go all out.

    I'd love to find some proto of an unreleased game. Say... Lobo for SNES. I'd track down a ROM dumper and send it to them so fast the anti-ROM collectors would put a contract out on me.
    I totally feel you on this point. However, time and the advice of such friends as drx and theredeye have given me a bit more open mind. Best case from my point of view would be the release of any and all prototypes in a digital format. But that's -my- opinion. But when it comes down to it, I don't own the materials in question.

    I used to be a collector myself, I had all kinds of rare stuff. But at the end of the day, the only thing I felt I was doing was surrounding myself with bragging rights. It was a bit lame and didn't accomplish much. I felt like I was just wasting massive amounts of money just to say "look what I have that you don't!" But there's also an awesome rush of holding a one of a kind item in your hands and knowing there are few or none like it.

    Is it selfish? Yeah, of course. However, it's their right, they invested the cash, the outcome is in their control. I'm somewhat comfortable with the fact that they at least dump them onto their own computers, I just hope they make hard copies as well. As long as they make some type of effort to preserve, then I'll keep my snarky remarks to myself. Hell, it could be worse, they could release them with a hacked watermark on the screen. =\

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    Watermarks are to avoid people passing off copies as the real thing. It's like one line of text, nothing more.

    You're getting to play the game for free anyway, not sure what there is to complain about.

    And spending $1000 on a game and not giving it away for free is NOT selfish. It's selfish for people to THINK they have a RIGHT to have said game for free for $1000. Would you give $1000 away to anyone for the hell of it? That's basically that is being insinuated as being selfish here. The person spending $1000 and not giving away the game. The data is why the game is that expensive.

    This argument can go on forever, and even with the obvious GIVE ME MONEY AND YOU GET PROTO DUMPS people still EXPECT the games given away for free, so there really is no argument here any more, you can't argue with things that make no sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PACHUKA View Post
    I totally feel you on this point. However, time and the advice of such friends as drx and theredeye have given me a bit more open mind. Best case from my point of view would be the release of any and all prototypes in a digital format. But that's -my- opinion. But when it comes down to it, I don't own the materials in question.

    I used to be a collector myself, I had all kinds of rare stuff. But at the end of the day, the only thing I felt I was doing was surrounding myself with bragging rights. It was a bit lame and didn't accomplish much. I felt like I was just wasting massive amounts of money just to say "look what I have that you don't!" But there's also an awesome rush of holding a one of a kind item in your hands and knowing there are few or none like it.

    Is it selfish? Yeah, of course. However, it's their right, they invested the cash, the outcome is in their control. I'm somewhat comfortable with the fact that they at least dump them onto their own computers, I just hope they make hard copies as well. As long as they make some type of effort to preserve, then I'll keep my snarky remarks to myself. Hell, it could be worse, they could release them with a hacked watermark on the screen. =\

    Well some people enjoy collecting. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamTR View Post
    Watermarks are to avoid people passing off copies as the real thing. It's like one line of text, nothing more.

    You're getting to play the game for free anyway, not sure what there is to complain about.

    And spending $1000 on a game and not giving it away for free is NOT selfish. It's selfish for people to THINK they have a RIGHT to have said game for free for $1000. Would you give $1000 away to anyone for the hell of it? That's basically that is being insinuated as being selfish here. The person spending $1000 and not giving away the game. The data is why the game is that expensive.

    This argument can go on forever, and even with the obvious GIVE ME MONEY AND YOU GET PROTO DUMPS people still EXPECT the games given away for free, so there really is no argument here any more, you can't argue with things that make no sense.
    Everyone is selfish. Human nature. You want more than you need to barely survive. You have 2 bowls of Captain Crunch this morning while others in the world starve to death and that is selfish. I have no shame. I admit it. I want LOTS of things. I want to own more than I will ever need to barely live. I'd like to retire one day. Have a vacation. Have fun doing things I enjoy with no benefit to anyone else. Anyone who sold anything on ebay auction style was selfish. They wanted the most they could get for that particular item.

    Sometimes I shift gears and want different things so I sell then buy other things but when it comes down to it yes I'm a horder. I'm a packrat of the 10th degree in all I do and I'm not right in the head. I am a collector.

    Sometimes I share things. Sometimes I give things away for free. So what. Who cares. I try to have fun.

    These debates are just peer pressure to get people to do things a certain way.

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    My 2 cents:
    (I've made a similar connection before...)

    Let's say I have a game, cost me $1,000 or so, and I give away a ROM image. Let's say you have a game that cost you $800 and you would like to keep it to yourself, but you share pictures and knowledge or whatever. The first is simply philanthropy and the 2nd is an item in a private collection.

    The same goes for art, I buy a painting for let say, $12,000 dollars, and I give it to a local university or museum collection. Let's now say you bought a painting for $1,000,000 dollars and hang it in your home. The first is simply philanthropy and the 2nd is an item in a private collection.

    Then...

    The museum sells tickets to see the painting and what do I get? $0. Why would I do that and not sell it to them? Personal decision, mine being I wanted my name on a little bronze plaque quietly placed under the work. They sell prints, the image is used in countless books, magazines, etc. I got: $0.

    You kept you painting in your home, and perhaps had it digitized and sold its use to textbooks, magazines, who ever might want it. Why would I do that and not sell it to them? Personal decision, this time being motivated by the need to donate a new building to a local free health center. What do you get? $$$$$$ for your health center, your house payments, to put your child through college, to buy a whore or get high. It's your money.

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    No matter what anyone says. It is just hard to turn down real life money for what comes down to just a videogame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    No matter what anyone says. It is just hard to turn down real life money for what comes down to just a videogame.
    Exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamTR View Post
    Watermarks are to avoid people passing off copies as the real thing. It's like one line of text, nothing more.
    I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. Anyone who is a collector is going to know the resources to check out the item at hand to see if what they buy is real or not. If they don't, it's their own damn fault, tough shit, it's a hard lesson to learn but it happens. The concept of hacking a watermark, even if it's under the false pretense of preventing fake copies is wrong, and very unethical. It's nothing more then an attention grabbing plug, plain and simple, and no amount of arguing or debating changes that. To be honest, I would rather see something lost forever then to see it corrupted.

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamTR View Post
    You're getting to play the game for free anyway, not sure what there is to complain about.
    What's to complain about is the fact not all of us want to "play" these games. Personally, the travesty of the recent Mike Tyson game is a prime example. The game is ass awful. But, it is a piece of game development history, and I'd like to see it preserved as such. To me, the concept is identical to the idea of someone finding a long lost Da Vinci painting, and painting their name over a corner of it before releasing it to the public. Legal? In most countries yes. Ethical? Not in the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamTR View Post
    And spending $1000 on a game and not giving it away for free is NOT selfish. It's selfish for people to THINK they have a RIGHT to have said game for free for $1000. Would you give $1000 away to anyone for the hell of it? That's basically that is being insinuated as being selfish here. The person spending $1000 and not giving away the game. The data is why the game is that expensive.
    Actually, this is a point I agree with. To use the painting compare again, sure you can hold onto your materials, it's your right. But a lot of people donate rare stuff to preserve history. It varies from person to person. Honestly, if I have a few hundred grand to spend, I'd buy up loads of shit and dump it. No other reason then preservation and study.

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamTR View Post
    This argument can go on forever,
    OMFG DOESN'T IT?!

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamTR View Post
    and even with the obvious GIVE ME MONEY AND YOU GET PROTO DUMPS people still EXPECT the games given away for free, so there really is no argument here any more, you can't argue with things that make no sense.
    Well, I made a fairly good arguement for my opinion, and you made a great one for yours. I think both sides of this have great points to consider. I think Buyatari made the best point of all, which was to blatently come out and say "I am selfish," because it's true. We're all selfish in our own way, and for different reasons. I like that he's got the big brass balls to just say it, that I have mad respect for. I even respect the opinions of collectors now, even if I disagree with them. However, the watermarking part is just wrong, and it will remain as such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewCallis View Post
    Let's say I have
    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewCallis View Post
    kept
    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewCallis View Post
    paint
    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewCallis View Post
    motivated by the need
    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewCallis View Post
    to
    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewCallis View Post
    get high.
    =D=D=D=D

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    Ok look Pachuka you and many others who want to see these game preserved don't like it when a collector profits from the release. Perhaps because you haven't profited yourself or perhaps because you just view things differently. You don't have to admit it here but just listen. Given that can't you understand how someone who found the proto might not want some leech to grab the ROM off the net and start making his own copies with it. Worse yet sell them as something they are not on eBay for hundreds?

    I mean in the end it is funny how so many people can claim to own something that really no one does.

    The right and wrong and legal arguments are always hypocritical and self serving in these situations. If it is wrong for someone to release the ROM on cart and charge money then it is also wrong to simply release the ROM. The infractions if any are so tiny as no jobs are affected either way. As you said the game sucks. This watermark doesn't really doesn't affect gameplay but I think all releases should be marked in some way. If another cart shows up on ebay how do we know it is an original or a copy put onto a blank board.

    You say you want the game preserved in the original state..... well it is. The original has NOT been changed. It is just not public.

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