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Thread: Help with Monitor Discoloration

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    Kirby (Level 13) SegaAges's Avatar
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    Default Help with Monitor Discoloration

    I am a noob with this stuff, but willing to try anything.

    Let me explain the issue as clearly as possible.

    On my cab, it seems as though the red is intermittent. The red will go out, and then randomly it will come back in.

    I think it might be a loose wire somewhere, as if I am getting into a game a getting a little hard on my buttons or joysticks, the red will come back in sometimes. I have not hit my arcade machine (even though I have thought of it), but I am 99% sure that the red would temporarily come back if I did that.

    What kind of stuff can I check?

    The very first thing I did check was to ensure that the jamma board was securely in the jamma harness.

    After I check what you suggest, if that does not help. what else can I check?

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    Great Puma (Level 12) jb143's Avatar
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    It could be a part (on the red signal circutry) going bad. Maybe just a cap. A loose wire would probally make the red either be there or not..or flicker, instead of randomly comming and going. Unless of course that's what it's doing.
    "Game programmers are generally lazy individuals. That's right. It's true. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Since the dawn of computer games, game programmers have looked for shortcuts to coolness." Kurt Arnlund - Game programmer for Activision, Accolade...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAges View Post
    getting a little hard on
    I wonder what a Sengoku Blade board runs for...

    What I would do, and this isn't necessarily what you would do, is to run the machine with the back door off (hopefully you have access to the board with your cabinet style) set up a mirror where you can see the screen from behind the cabinet, get a wooden or plastic stick, and start gently poking capacitors, wiggle some wires and stuff and see if there is a response on the screen. Sometimes that's a pretty good way to rout out the culprit.

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    Cherry (Level 1) Peale's Avatar
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    There are many reasons for intermitent colour. Try the wiring first, you may have a loose connection. Next check the input pins, you may have a cold solder joint. Also check the neckboard transistors, something could be wrong with them.

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    Kirby (Level 13) SegaAges's Avatar
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    Yeah, I will have to give the wires a little wiggle to see if that is the problem. I don't just want to up and buy a cap kit when the problem could be something else.

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    Authordreamweavervisionar yplusactor Arcade Antics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAges View Post
    Yeah, I will have to give the wires a little wiggle to see if that is the problem. I don't just want to up and buy a cap kit when the problem could be something else.
    If it's not a new monitor, you should probably do one anyway.
    Selling collection, Atari through XBox. Send a PM with whatever games you're looking for.

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    Kirby (Level 13) SegaAges's Avatar
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    Oh, the monitor is very old. I just never wanted to do the cap kit because this is my first cab and I am a little nervous about fucking around with the monitor (I have seen too many warnings about it).

    I do not mind learning, how bad is it to do a cap kit for somebody that is not very experienced with soldering and working on their first cab?

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    Kirby (Level 13) SegaAges's Avatar
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    Ok, I know that it is not a loose connection.

    I was playing some steep slope sliders tonight and the red stopped. After I finished my game, I shut off my arcade machine, let it sit for a couple minutes, and then turned it back on and the color was back.

    If there was a loose connection when I did not touch anything, the color should have stayed the same.

    Honestly, I hope it is not the monitor itself, because I am unsure how possible it would even be to remove the monitor.

    Could a cap kit fix something like this?

    Also, how hard is it to install a cap kit without electrocuting myself?

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    Authordreamweavervisionar yplusactor Arcade Antics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAges View Post
    Ok, I know that it is not a loose connection.

    I was playing some steep slope sliders tonight and the red stopped. After I finished my game, I shut off my arcade machine, let it sit for a couple minutes, and then turned it back on and the color was back.

    If there was a loose connection when I did not touch anything, the color should have stayed the same.
    But you *did* touch something when you turned it on and off. The only way to rule out a loose connection is to check all the connections.

    Also, how hard is it to install a cap kit without electrocuting myself?
    It's not possible to electrocute yourself when you install the new caps. But you can majorly shock yourself when you go to discharge the monitor if you don't do it properly. Make sure you read up on it and watch tutorial videos on youtube or whatever until you're sure you know what you're doing. It's not difficult, but you do have to be very careful.

    First discharge the monitor, then disconnect the monitor boards, then install the cap kit.
    Selling collection, Atari through XBox. Send a PM with whatever games you're looking for.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) shawnbo42's Avatar
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    The first place I'd start is with what kind of monitor you're dealing with here. If you've got a wells-gardner, (very common monitor board on older machines) they are well-known for having cold solder joints on the red input pin. Check where your video plugs in to the monitor board. Assuming you have a wells board, it'll be on the edge of the board, most likely the right hand side if you're standing behind the machne looking at the monitor board.

    You'll probably want to touch up all the connections on there as well while you're in there. That most likely (again, assuming you are dealing with a wells-gardner monitor board) will correct your problem. If this is your problem, what's happeneing is that the solder heats up enough to "fall away" from the board, and your red goes out. When it cools enough, the solder "pulls in" and makes the connection again. And now you've got red back. Then it heats up, and....you understand where I'm going, right?

    That's my 2 cents' worth, start with that, and if you could post some pics of your monitor, that'd be a big help.

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    Kirby (Level 13) SegaAges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnbo42 View Post
    The first place I'd start is with what kind of monitor you're dealing with here. If you've got a wells-gardner, (very common monitor board on older machines) they are well-known for having cold solder joints on the red input pin. Check where your video plugs in to the monitor board. Assuming you have a wells board, it'll be on the edge of the board, most likely the right hand side if you're standing behind the machne looking at the monitor board.

    You'll probably want to touch up all the connections on there as well while you're in there. That most likely (again, assuming you are dealing with a wells-gardner monitor board) will correct your problem. If this is your problem, what's happeneing is that the solder heats up enough to "fall away" from the board, and your red goes out. When it cools enough, the solder "pulls in" and makes the connection again. And now you've got red back. Then it heats up, and....you understand where I'm going, right?

    That's my 2 cents' worth, start with that, and if you could post some pics of your monitor, that'd be a big help.
    Wow, very informative. I do not own a digi cam (yeah, I know), but my friend that is coming over tonight does. I will make him grab his camera and take pictures of the monitor.

    I will be honest, I have no clue what kind of monitor it is. Like I said, I am a noob with arcades, but I am more than willing to learn.

    EDIT: I took pictures of the inside in the back, and shit, it is dusty. Like very bad. Like a coat of dust. Is there anything besides one of those air blower things that you use on pc's I should be using, or is one of those cool?

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    Strawberry (Level 2) shawnbo42's Avatar
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    You can use a can of compressed air to alean off the dust on the monitor, an air compressor works better (more pressure) if you have one available. I have seen posts of people washing their monitors (as in, take the entire tube out of the cabinet, set it on the ground, Simple Green it, and hose it off.) If you ever go that route, your monitor will look brand new, BUT make absolutely certain it is COMPLETELY dry before applying power.

    As an admitted newb here, just stick with air. It'll get enough of the dust off the monitor to allow you to do what you have to do in there. That is one of your prime enemies with monitors, btw. Dust can act as an insulator, and cause heat buildup on the circuit board, which eventually leads to component failure. Keeping your monitor as clean and well-vented as possible will greatly increase your monitor's lifespan, and cause you less headaches down the road. We'll be waiting for pics!!!

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    Kirby (Level 13) SegaAges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawnbo42 View Post
    You can use a can of compressed air to alean off the dust on the monitor, an air compressor works better (more pressure) if you have one available. I have seen posts of people washing their monitors (as in, take the entire tube out of the cabinet, set it on the ground, Simple Green it, and hose it off.) If you ever go that route, your monitor will look brand new, BUT make absolutely certain it is COMPLETELY dry before applying power.

    As an admitted newb here, just stick with air. It'll get enough of the dust off the monitor to allow you to do what you have to do in there. That is one of your prime enemies with monitors, btw. Dust can act as an insulator, and cause heat buildup on the circuit board, which eventually leads to component failure. Keeping your monitor as clean and well-vented as possible will greatly increase your monitor's lifespan, and cause you less headaches down the road. We'll be waiting for pics!!!
    I went ahead and finally took pics of my room of doom as well, so I am doing everything at once. I will have it all online, hopefully, tonight

    Here are the pics:
    photobucket link

    I have my collection photos on there as well that I am going to be putting on videogamecollectors.com, but the first pictures are of my arcade machine and taking pics of the inside. Remember what I said, it is super dusty.

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    I found the issue. The wires that go from the jamma harness to the video board are messed up. A small wiggle and the problem comes right back.

    I am going to get some new wires tomorrow and replace them.

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    Cherry (Level 1) Peale's Avatar
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    You don't need new wires, you need to fix the connection problem.

    On which end of the JAMMA harness does this happen? If it's on the PCB side, pull the harness and examine those specific pins. Look at the board too. Anything unusual there?

    If it's on the monitor side, it could be the aforementioned pins on the connector, or a broken solder joint on the monitor itself.

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    Kirby (Level 13) SegaAges's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peale View Post
    You don't need new wires, you need to fix the connection problem.

    On which end of the JAMMA harness does this happen? If it's on the PCB side, pull the harness and examine those specific pins. Look at the board too. Anything unusual there?

    If it's on the monitor side, it could be the aforementioned pins on the connector, or a broken solder joint on the monitor itself.
    It is in on monitor side.

    so wiggling wires very gently and them fucking up the colors could still be the solder joints?

    I assumed at that point it would be the wires and/or the connection.

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    Cherry (Level 1) Peale's Avatar
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    It's almost certainly the solder joints. It's a common problem.

    Touch them all up and see if your problem goes away. If not, it's probably the harness, and it'll have to be repinned. Easy job if you have the pins and the crimper.

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    Kirby (Level 13) diskoboy's Avatar
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    I agree with Peale and shawnbo....

    If it's a Wells Gardner, they are notorious for having cold soldier joints.

    Can you ID the monitor model? If it's a K4600, get ready to put yourself through hell... They are an absolute pain in the ass to fix. Whoever designed it obviously didn't keep servicing in mind.
    Last edited by diskoboy; 10-30-2009 at 04:04 PM.

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    The only thing that gets me nervous is removing the neck board from the tube. Does it really just pull off?

    also, how does it re attach after it is pulled off?

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    Strawberry (Level 2) shawnbo42's Avatar
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    Yep, it really pulls off. Just apply even pressure on both sides, and don't go nuts. Just pull gently, with steady force, and it'll pop right off. To reattach it, you just line up the pins, and plug it back in. Just make sure you don't miss a pin when you re-attach it, but it's pretty good about going back on. I've very rarely had a problem if ever.

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