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Thread: if you could only have 1 european retro pc

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    You cannot compare UK companies with classic US companies like Origin, early EA, Infocom, Sierra, Sir-Tech, Mindscape, Broderbund, Synapse, Microprose, Omnitrend, Activision (in their prime before Activision set up a UK software house and went downhill), Datasoft, Lucasfilm, Sirius Software...etc. Those companies produced high quality 8-bit software by very talented programmers...Joe Vierra, Bill Hogue, Sid Meier, Richard Garriot, Doug Smith, Anne Westfall, Dan(ny) Bunton, Stephen Landrum, Bill Heineman, Edward Hobbs...etc..... their games sold wordwide, softs by Ultimate PtG on the other hand, did not.

    Some of those companies actually had softs out on Spectrum, eg Activision, Microprose, well, they tried, what can one say....Codemasters on Spectrum, that'll work, Sir-Tech, obviously, that would never work.
    Last edited by tom; 12-01-2009 at 05:31 PM.

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    Pear (Level 6) Soviet Conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhan View Post
    theres no comparison between either of them really. When you get right the hell down to it they're both huge piles of garbage.
    lol, for someone that knows so much about retro computers you certainly seem to hate them.

    i can scarely recall a computer in any of our conversations that you didn't think of as "junk" possibly with the exception of a few MSX2 models. i'm not harping on you or anything, you've helped me out pc wise on many occasions but i just find this funny.

  3. #43
    Chaos Knight
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    The UK certainly had a wealth of programming talent though: Jeff Minter, Andrew Braybrook, Nick Jones, Chris Butler, John Twiddy, Zac Townsend, Dave Collier, John Rowlands, Jon Hare, Stephen Ruddy, Geoff Crammond, Archer Maclean, Paul Woakes, Nick Gollop, Dan Phillips, Stan Schembri, Steve Snake, Andy Walker, Peter Baron, Dave Thomas, Jon Ritman. And that's a quick think on matters...

    Just because some of their output isn't as well known as that produced by the people Tom mentioned, doesn't mean it wasn't good. Mind you, I'm only going through my brain for C64 guys here cos that's the machine I know best

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    The UK certainly had a wealth of programming talent though: Jeff Minter, Andrew Braybrook, Nick Jones, Chris Butler, John Twiddy, Zac Townsend, Dave Collier, John Rowlands, Jon Hare, Stephen Ruddy, Geoff Crammond, Archer Maclean, Paul Woakes, Nick Gollop, Dan Phillips, Stan Schembri, Steve Snake, Andy Walker, Peter Baron, Dave Thomas, Jon Ritman. And that's a quick think on matters...

    Just because some of their output isn't as well known as that produced by the people Tom mentioned, doesn't mean it wasn't good. Mind you, I'm only going through my brain for C64 guys here cos that's the machine I know best
    Yes, excellent programmers....on C64 and A8. Also, Raffaele Cecco excelled on C64, but Matthew Smith and his Manic Miner/Jet Set Willy....ouch.
    Last edited by tom; 12-02-2009 at 06:04 AM.

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    Getting back to the main topic, (and this is a question for people who have actual hands on experience rather than just watching videos on youtube) If somebody wanted to buy one European computer, would you actually recommend the Amstrad over the Spectrum? And I'm talking about a nice Amstrad built Spectrum +2 with a built in reliable tape deck, good keyboard, uses Atari joysticks and doesn't reset every time you look at it funny.
    Last edited by blue lander; 12-02-2009 at 08:44 AM.

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    The Speccy +2 you mention is probably the best compromise and certainly one of the better build quality and reliability issues. Plus you get 128k for some enhanced or exclusive games.

    Quote Originally Posted by tom View Post
    Raffaele Cecco excelled on C64
    Raf didn't program anything on the C64; Nick Jones converted all his games while at Hewson and Mikro-Gen along with Time Machine, and Jon Williams programmed First Samurai on the C64 for Vivid Image.

    Nick Jones btw would later work on various console projects including the Earthworm Jim titles... guy was an unheralded legend in C64 circles imo.

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    Did the +2 have a better sound chip than the earlier models? Because if you listen to the theme title of a game like Aufweidersehen Monty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVl-_wH84dc) and compare it to older Spectrum games whose soundtracks consist of beeps and fart sounds, it's hard to believe they came out of the same device

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    The Speccy +2 you mention is probably the best compromise and certainly one of the better build quality and reliability issues. Plus you get 128k for some enhanced or exclusive games.



    Raf didn't program anything on the C64; Nick Jones converted all his games while at Hewson and Mikro-Gen along with Time Machine, and Jon Williams programmed First Samurai on the C64 for Vivid Image.

    Nick Jones btw would later work on various console projects including the Earthworm Jim titles... guy was an unheralded legend in C64 circles imo.
    Yeah, I meant Nick Jones, Cybernoid and Stormlord, excellent C64 titles, but Raffaele Cecco got all the credit.
    A good prove how UK programmers learned their craft on 8-bit and were great on consoles later on.
    Last edited by tom; 12-02-2009 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue lander View Post
    Did the +2 have a better sound chip than the earlier models? Because if you listen to the theme title of a game like Aufweidersehen Monty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVl-_wH84dc) and compare it to older Spectrum games whose soundtracks consist of beeps and fart sounds, it's hard to believe they came out of the same device
    Yes. The 128, +2 and similar models used the AY-3-8910 chip, from the same family that was also used in the Vectrex, Atari ST and Intellivision.

    Actually the AWM track isn't too bad of a translation from the original C64 SID version...
    Last edited by Mayhem; 12-02-2009 at 10:08 AM.

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    Nothing can hold a candle to the SID, but in this instance I actually prefer the Spectrum version of that song. Seems like it has more channel separation. The Amstrad version is probably the weakest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXpcmEU_qrA

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    to bad shipping on any of them to the US is murder.

    i mean just for a speccy its like $50-$80 shipping alone and i don't think i've ever seen one for sale domesticly

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    If you're handy with a soldering iron, ask them to ship you one without the power supply. The power brick weighs a ton, and the Spectrum +2 just needs 5 volts DC to run. You could easily get a power supply from Radio Shack that does that, you'd just need to wire up a connector that plugs into the Spectrum. I think it's a 5 pin Mini DIN, nothing exotic.

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    My dad had a Spectrum back in the day (sold it for a TI-83, which no longer works, lulz). I think they sold them domestically. Is this an issue of needing one of the better models for improved software compatibility?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Oscuro View Post
    My dad had a Spectrum back in the day (sold it for a TI-83, which no longer works, lulz). I think they sold them domestically. Is this an issue of needing one of the better models for improved software compatibility?
    hmmm, as far as i know they didn't and if they did it would probibly be harder to find and more expensive then a uk model

    unless your refering to the Timex Sinclair 2068 which is rare, expensive and largly incompatible with zx spectrum games

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet Conscript View Post
    lol, for someone that knows so much about retro computers you certainly seem to hate them.

    i can scarely recall a computer in any of our conversations that you didn't think of as "junk" possibly with the exception of a few MSX2 models. i'm not harping on you or anything, you've helped me out pc wise on many occasions but i just find this funny.
    I can't help it most of the computers talked about are steaming piles of crap.

    Stick a spectrum, amstrad, MSX, C64 and Atari next to each other

    the speccy and amstrad are junk in comparison. The gaming experience just isnt the same. Its under-powered... you feel cheated while playing them. Your friend is enjoying say Ultima III on an MSX while youre enjoying some monochrome game that sounds like a speaker tossed into a blender.....

    The lack of Origin alone kills some computers imo.

    I wont deny the c64 being nice and all but the community, and dodgy hardware are pretty lame. Its unfortunate really.

    Games are alright but when the 1541s are wacko and you have to diskswap alot it becomes tiresome. And then you bump your breadbin and it goes out. ._.

    MSX is the most bang for the buck if you're looking for a sweet time. Does an MSX count as a retrocomputer from the UK since it had Euro models? If so then hell that's my choice. Philips NMS ftw.

    of the 'retro computers' I think my ultimate two would be the MSX and the C64, even if I do hate the thing/people.
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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Opinions, opinions...

    Speccy graphics are pretty lovable when done right. Also, Trantor. Spectrum games aren't monochrome, not by a long shot.

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    Apple (Level 5) Arkhan's Avatar
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    They ain't done right too often, that's for damn sure.

    Not often enough to make the thing a worthy computer.

    Aetherbyte: PC-Engine and more homebrew

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    MSX was excellent, of course, but not very widespread in Europe, same as Apple ][. MSX does have a great range of Japan carts, but they were never available in Europe, maybe some were, but I don't know.

    Apple ][ was the 8-bit with the biggest and best software range, but only successful in USA:



    I post this article from USA gaming magazine Electronic Games (1985) straight away, before someone like Mayhem.....'but the C64...blah, blah'

    .
    Last edited by tom; 12-03-2009 at 02:49 AM.

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    I'm sure even the Spectrum would argue otherwise too heh... personally I'm not certain the actual answer will ever come out given the directories of both Speccy and C64 keep going up with time (C64 is now well over 20k in GB64).

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    (C64 is now well over 20k in GB64).
    You know very well in reality it isn't, they include BCK, PCS, SEUCK, Loder Runner screens, German C64 magazine listings, Game Maker, Quill and whatnot, so the truth is far less.

    88 Boulder Dash games? Somehow I don't think so. (that's just searching under the name Boulder Dash, many, many more selfmade Boulder Dash screens under a different name).

    But of course, WoS and AM are just the same.
    Last edited by tom; 12-03-2009 at 12:07 PM.

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